Those of you that lift heavy and distance run
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What does your training schedule look like? What kind of lifting do you do and how far are you running? Are you focusing on one of the two or trying to improve both? Do you ever running hindering your recovery time for lifting or vice versa?
I'm currently doing Practical Programming (a linear progression strength training program 3x a week) and do a modified C25K with a friend (usually on off days, but it tends to be whenever we can coordinate our schedules). I've only been doing this particular strength training program for 2 weeks now. Before that it was a squat/bench/deadlift MWF schedule. Every now and then it seems the soreness of my back and legs makes the running grueling. That usually happens when I do the running on the same day though. I'd like to do a half-marathon in December or January, but it seems like that and strength gains become counterproductive to one another. Does anyone have any experience training for both strength and running endurance at the same time?
I started lifting while training for a half marathon. I squat and deadlift about 140 lbs. currently. I didn't notice any detriment to my running. My long runs were almost always on Sundays so I made sure that the days around my long run with lifting-free. However, I only lift 2x/week. I was doing 3x/week, but my schedule was too packed to fit it all in. All that being said, hills have become much easier since I started lifting. I run 4x/week, usually my mileage is around 20-30 miles/week depending on where I am in my training.
I'm still lifting and I have a half marathon on the schedule for July and for August. Feel free to add if you'd like.
ETA: I'm not a fast runner. I usually average about 10-11 min/mile pace0 -
I tried this route, here's my feedback. I'm a runner, who lifts.
I consider "Long distance" running to be 25+ miles per week, with weekly long runs of 90 minutes or more.
I consider "heavy lifting" to be 3-5 reps x 3-5 sets. Max effort, with longer breaks between sets.
For a few months, I dabbled in both running and lifting (4 days per week of each) -
Squats of 225lb (sets)
Deadlifts of 300lb (sets)
Bench 175 -200lbs (sets)
My average 10 mile pace (not race), is around 7:45 -8:00mm.
My take - the two events are not compatible. They are opposing forces.
1. The heavy lifting fatigues the legs enough to compromise your run, and your body is always in 'recovery' mode.
2. Lifting hits the fast-twitch muscles, where LDR hits the slow-twitch muscles. No real benefit.
3. You will certainly get stronger, and if in a calorie surplus, risk building more muscle, which only serves to work against you on the run.
After I run my marathon in 10 days, I'm going back to regular lifting, except I'll be upping my reps around 12-15, but still where I'm hitting failure. Your body will produce lactic acids at the higher rep range, which helps the running.
That is my take on it.0 -
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I'm training for my first half. I follow a program that looks something like this.
Mon: 1 mile as fast as I can + lifting (I do a full body workout, but try to change it up every 6 weeks or so)
Tues: 3-4 miles
Wed: off
Thurs: 1 fast mile + weights OR 6 miles, depending on what I feel like
Fri: off
Sat: long run (right now I'm at 9 or 10 miles)
Sun: off
Good luck!0 -
I tried this route, here's my feedback. I'm a runner, who lifts.
I consider "Long distance" running to be 25+ miles per week, with weekly long runs of 90 minutes or more.
I consider "heavy lifting" to be 3-5 reps x 3-5 sets. Max effort, with longer breaks between sets.
For a few months, I dabbled in both running and lifting (4 days per week of each) -
Squats of 225lb (sets)
Deadlifts of 300lb (sets)
Bench 175 -200lbs (sets)
My average 10 mile pace (not race), is around 7:45 -8:00mm.
My take - the two events are not compatible. They are opposing forces.
1. The heavy lifting fatigues the legs enough to compromise your run, and your body is always in 'recovery' mode.
2. Lifting hits the fast-twitch muscles, where LDR hits the slow-twitch muscles. No real benefit.
3. You will certainly get stronger, and if in a calorie surplus, risk building more muscle, which only serves to work against you on the run.
After I run my marathon in 10 days, I'm going back to regular lifting, except I'll be upping my reps around 12-15, but still where I'm hitting failure. Your body will produce lactic acids at the higher rep range, which helps the running.
That is my take on it.
Most helpful post on heavy lifting and long distance running. Thank you!0 -
This is a fantastic question...I've been lifting and am going to start the NRFL program Monday.....I plan to continue with my current schedule.
M, W, F 2.5-4 miles runs followed by core in the ams. Evening lifting.
Tues & Thur yoga/swimming.
Not sure if I am going to continue giving myself active rest days on weekend to fully recover. I'm gonna go back and read all the answers and see if I'm on the right track.0 -
Hmm, well I did it and was pretty successful during my last half. I think I lift pretty heavy, DL 185, Squat 140, press 75. I weigh 110. My last half was 10 minutes better (2:11) than the half before that. So, IDK.... I felt like I got faster once I started lifting heavy, since the lifting was the major change from one half to the other, (besides diet).
Here was my schedule at the time
Monday, am- crossfit; pm- cycle 1 hour
Tuesday am- hills or tempo run or repeats
Wednesday am- crossfit; pm BRICK, (bike 1 hour, 20-30 minute run- tempo)
Thursday am - medium long run
Friday am- crossfit; pm- hour+ run easy pace.
Saturday OFF
Sunday- Long run
Planning on a similar schedule as I head into another marathon season.
Obviously, this is just my schedule. It's a little nuts I understand that. I'm just pointing out that it's possible to make progress in both areas. I mean how do we really know if we are getting the FULL effect of any one thing all the time. If you are doing things you love and getting stronger and running longer and most importantly setting goals and accomplishing them, you're doing good. Right?
Edited to add: I completely agree that they are opposing forces. Which is why I think it's important to do both if that makes sense. I lost a lot of muscle running endurance WITHOUT lifting. I think it's helpful to do both to hopefully at least maintain.0 -
I'm not much of a runner, but I've done a couple 5K's. In the winter I was toying with the idea that this would be the summer that I did a 10K, half, then Marathon in the Fall. As I was thinking about that I'd started New Rules and I LOVE IT SO MUCH.
Then, in late December, I was offered top join a group doing the Tough Mudder. I decided to focus on that for May first and defer the possibility of serious distance running goals til after I make it through Tough Mudder.
TM is a heavy strength event, even though it is nearly as long as a half marathon. My focus/obsession has been on doing New Rules and getting stronger. It has exhausted me and I really do need the rest days as recommended in the book. My running practice has suffered. However, I did a 5K for charity with a friend and actually PR'd my 5K. So who knows. What I know is that while doing New Rules, *I* don't have it in me to do a proper running plan for a proper distance race. And, my fear is that I won't have the gas to run in the event. But I think I will.
I love lifting, and strength is reasonably my goal right now. I'm not sure how I'd set up my training plans if/when distance and speed become my goal. I know I won't have a time when I don't lift at all, though. It's nice to not get over-use injury.0 -
Hmm, well I did it and was pretty successful during my last half. I think I lift pretty heavy, DL 185, Squat 140, press 75. I weigh 110. My last half was 10 minutes better (2:11) than the half before that. So, IDK.... I felt like I got faster once I started lifting heavy, since the lifting was the major change from one half to the other, (besides diet).
Here was my schedule at the time
Monday, am- crossfit; pm- cycle 1 hour
Tuesday am- hills or tempo run or repeats
Wednesday am- crossfit; pm BRICK, (bike 1 hour, 20-30 minute run- tempo)
Thursday am - medium long run
Friday am- crossfit; pm- hour+ run easy pace.
Saturday OFF
Sunday- Long run
Planning on a similar schedule as I head into another marathon season.
Obviously, this is just my schedule. It's a little nuts I understand that. I'm just pointing out that it's possible to make progress in both areas. I mean how do we really know if we are getting the FULL effect of any one thing all the time. If you are doing things you love and getting stronger and running longer and most importantly setting goals and accomplishing them, you're doing good. Right?
Edited to add: I completely agree that they are opposing forces. Which is why I think it's important to do both if that makes sense. I lost a lot of muscle running endurance WITHOUT lifting. I think it's helpful to do both to hopefully at least maintain.
Strength training is definitely crucial for strong running, but I believe the emphasis here is on "heavy" lifting, as in powerlifting (very heavy weight from 3-5 reps). From what I understand Crossfit is NOT powerlifting, but quite the opposite... higher reps and faster paced. Actually, from everything I've read, Crossfit is probably one of the better forms of strength training for Long Distance Runners. (Basing my reply on the schedule you listed).
I've considered getting into a Crossfit group, but I live no where near any.0 -
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Hmm, well I did it and was pretty successful during my last half. I think I lift pretty heavy, DL 185, Squat 140, press 75. I weigh 110. My last half was 10 minutes better (2:11) than the half before that. So, IDK.... I felt like I got faster once I started lifting heavy, since the lifting was the major change from one half to the other, (besides diet).
Here was my schedule at the time
Monday, am- crossfit; pm- cycle 1 hour
Tuesday am- hills or tempo run or repeats
Wednesday am- crossfit; pm BRICK, (bike 1 hour, 20-30 minute run- tempo)
Thursday am - medium long run
Friday am- crossfit; pm- hour+ run easy pace.
Saturday OFF
Sunday- Long run
Planning on a similar schedule as I head into another marathon season.
Obviously, this is just my schedule. It's a little nuts I understand that. I'm just pointing out that it's possible to make progress in both areas. I mean how do we really know if we are getting the FULL effect of any one thing all the time. If you are doing things you love and getting stronger and running longer and most importantly setting goals and accomplishing them, you're doing good. Right?
Edited to add: I completely agree that they are opposing forces. Which is why I think it's important to do both if that makes sense. I lost a lot of muscle running endurance WITHOUT lifting. I think it's helpful to do both to hopefully at least maintain.
Strength training is definitely crucial for strong running, but I believe the emphasis here is on "heavy" lifting, as in powerlifting (very heavy weight from 3-5 reps). From what I understand Crossfit is NOT powerlifting, but quite the opposite... higher reps and faster paced. Actually, from everything I've read, Crossfit is probably one of the better forms of strength training for Long Distance Runners. (Basing my reply on the schedule you listed).
I've considered getting into a Crossfit group, but I live no where near any.
It's so much fun!
Our class does a heavy oly lifting component 2-3 times a week in addition to our regular WOD. So, we do do heavy weight, low reps. It's where we focus on technique and form. It's the best part. :happy:0 -
I run and lift and have been doing both seriously for about a year, although I've been a runner for much longer.
My current training plan (injuries not withstanding) is:
Mon: Lift
Tue: Run - usually 5 - 6 miles
Wed: Lift
Thur: Run - either hills, intervals, fartlek, tabata sprints or most likelt a faster paced 5 miles.
Fri: Lift
Sat: Distance run. Typically 10m to 13 miles
Sun: Rest
My strength program is the Starting Strength program in which you alternate A & B work outs.
A: Squats, Bench press, Dead lift, dips
B: Squats, Military press, Barbell Rows, Chins
Are you focusing on one of the two or trying to improve both?
I like to maintain a half mara level of running fitness. I'm not ruling out a mara in the future but it's not a priority for me right now. At the same time I'm hoping to improve my strength.
I want to be fit; not a body builder, and for me that means that I can run fast, have good aerobic capacity, can lift a decent amount, and be flexible and agile. Note: these are goals, I am not there yet, but I do agree with those that say you cannot excel in both long steady cardio disciplines and strength.
Do you ever running hindering your recovery time for lifting or vice versa?
This is very difficult for me to answer because I've been working out at negative cals for a long time. So, my strength gains have now levelled off completely. I will not get any stronger until I eat more to grow more, but at the moment I'm not ready to do that. So, I can't say that my running has had a negative impact upon my strength because my eating has a greater impact and masks any effect from running.
What I can say is that I do not feel that my strength work has had any negative effect on my running, I'm posting similar times now to those when I was running 5 days a week and doing much less (and much less structured; upper body only) strength work.
Pre strength training 1/2 mara times were typically 1hr 40mins, my last half was 1hr 45mins. In my book those times are within the variability of individual events (weather, crowds, hills, etc).
I've got another few lb of fat to get rid of and then I'll maintain for the summer. In the Autumn, once I have a couple of planned halves out of the way, I will start a build cycle, so that will be the time that we see if the lifting really affects the running.
Best wishes all & OP thanks for starting this thread... one of my favourites of recent days.0 -
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I do both! I think distance running and strength training are DEFINITELY great to do together. I just ran my first half in March, I've run a few 5k's and I'm trying for a marathon in the fall. This is what my schedule is like right about now. Although I have to say, it's time consuming to do both!!
Sun: always a rest day
Mon: weights and elliptical/treadmill for 5 miles
Tues: 6 mile run up a mountain (hill workout)
Wed: weights and 5 mile speed run (for me that's only going 7.5 mph for 20 min, then the other 30 is jogging)
Thurs: 6 mile run
Fri: weights and easy-ish 5 mile run
Sat: alternate between 10 miles, 6 miles, and long run (I'm at around 15 miles for my longer run now)
I've been pushing hard at both the lifting and the running. When it comes to about a week or 2 before a race, I slow down the weights a little to focus on running. I haven't gotten any injuries yet, but I've moved up to this pretty gradually. I do think that they complement each other though. Weights make it easier on my legs/hamstrings when I do hill workouts. Also, I can run much faster over hills when I'm racing because of the gym.
I think it's okay to do both if you ALWAYS take a rest day.0 -
I'm still trying to find the perfect balance in my routine. I lift with a PT 3-4 times per week & try to get a 7-mile run in on at least 2 of those days. My long runs are usually on the weekends, but right now I am prepping for the Century ride on May 5, so I am spending more time in the saddle. After next weekend, I will be hitting the pavement hard to get ready for my upcoming 2 half-marathons this summer.
By the end of the week, I am spent!
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I have been training for a 30 mile run and lifting strong lifts 5x5 for 4 months.
my schedule changes all the time because I have little kids and a wife that works full time with a random schedule.
I lift 3 days a week and Run 3 days a week,
Sometimes I end up lifting in the morning before work and do a run after work. I run 25-35 miles a week.
My lifts have barely gone up since I started endurance training in earnest.
My normal schedule......( run and lift days get swapped often but I always do my long run on the weekend and always have at LEAST 1 if not 2 days off a week
Monday - lift 5x5
tuesday run 2-5 miles
wednesday 5x5
thursday run 3-7 miles
friday 5x5
saterday long run ( 10-25 miles depending on where I was at in the training schedule)
sunday REST
I am 6 ft tall and am down to 162 lbs.
last fall when I weighed 175 - I was squatting 180, deadlifting 245, benching 135, over head pressing 85
then I hurt my back and I started the endurance training the same time I got back into 5x5 lifting
I am back up to 160 squats, 200 dead lift, 120 bench, and 90 over head press. I 100% believe that the running is holding me back on my lifting and to maintain my weight I have to eat nearly 3,000 a day even on my rest days.
just eat like a fool and make sure you get rest days. I can squat weight equal to my body weight and run 20+ miles.
My ultimate goal is to be able to squat and deadlift 2x body weight and bench 1.5x bw and still be able to run 10+ miles any day of the week without thinking twice.0 -
Still trying to find the balance that works for me, thanks for all the helpful information!!
As my mileage goes up for half training, I am planning on cutting back weights to 2xWeek, and running 3xWeek (one short run with intervals, one medium close to race pace, and one long slow) and taking a rest day before, and a day after long runs.
**editing to add, my goals are to get a little faster, I avg 10/mile would like 9/mile, and to cut body fat to goal of 22%0 -
Lifting heavy doesn't work against you finishing your half, it just doesn't optimize your performance the way endurance lifting would. If you're not trying to be an elite athlete I wouldn't worry about it. Follow a lifting program you enjoy & can feel good about.
This is pretty much my thinking on it too. Could I be a better runner without the heavy lifting? Probably, but I'm decent now, and I'm improving on both fronts. And most importantly, I enjoy my workouts. My current schedule:
M: Speedwork
T: Lifting
W: Tempo run
Th: Lifting and/or Yoga
F: Yoga or Lifting
S: Long run
Su: Rest
As my mileage increases, I cut back on lifting to twice/week. After races when my mileage is lower, I increase the lifting to 3/week. Right now I'm in between, so it varies.0 -
My only set day is Tuesday when I usually do a spin class and then upper body weights while my wife goes to the sculpting class; I will also try to run at least 3 times during the week, at least 3 miles per run with a long run on Saturday and 1 day of full body weights.0
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I tried this route, here's my feedback. I'm a runner, who lifts.
I consider "Long distance" running to be 25+ miles per week, with weekly long runs of 90 minutes or more.
I consider "heavy lifting" to be 3-5 reps x 3-5 sets. Max effort, with longer breaks between sets.
For a few months, I dabbled in both running and lifting (4 days per week of each) -
Squats of 225lb (sets)
Deadlifts of 300lb (sets)
Bench 175 -200lbs (sets)
My average 10 mile pace (not race), is around 7:45 -8:00mm.
My take - the two events are not compatible. They are opposing forces.
1. The heavy lifting fatigues the legs enough to compromise your run, and your body is always in 'recovery' mode.
2. Lifting hits the fast-twitch muscles, where LDR hits the slow-twitch muscles. No real benefit.
3. You will certainly get stronger, and if in a calorie surplus, risk building more muscle, which only serves to work against you on the run.
After I run my marathon in 10 days, I'm going back to regular lifting, except I'll be upping my reps around 12-15, but still where I'm hitting failure. Your body will produce lactic acids at the higher rep range, which helps the running.
That is my take on it.
You're on target with what I had in my mind as far as heavy lifting goes. Is there no way to build up a solid long run without a lot of weekly miles though?0 -
You might have to re-arange your schedule for doing back and legs. I started running seriously about 3 years ago and always made sure I was never doing legs or lower back when running the same day or especially the day after. I fing if I do a really long distance anything over 15 k, my lower back starts to get a bit sore, but I was told by alot of long distance runners thats normal. I have a buddy I used to see at the gym and he's been running big marathons like the Boston, New york and so forth. He hasn't done a leg workout in 10 years and his legs are quite big. I personally haven't done them either since I started running but I guess it depends how serious of a runner your going to be. If it's just moderate running then don't do any legs or back right before a run. Hope this helps .0
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Everything I've read about weight training and cardio suggests they're counter productive--as others have suggested, because cardio trains one type of muscle fiber while weight training trains the other. Building muscle vs building endurance. It's kind of like eating clean all day long and then finishing the day with a decadent dessert--will you gain weight? maybe. probably over time. But you probably won't lose any either.
This is cliche, but you have to try to find a balance that works for you where you're not over training--only you know what that is. If you're exhausted all the time and running is difficult, you have to scale back on something. I'd rather do cardio any day of the week, but cardio isn't the type of exercise that makes you look lean and sculpted--it's weight training. I'm still trying to figure it out myself.0 -
I do both, but my goal is just to finish my half marathon (in 9 days). I plan to transition to a focus on building speed for a shorter distance from May-August (two shorter speed runs, one 10K run a week) and then I'll just use running as a HIIT tool after that.
So, my previous workout (2x lift, 4x run) has been:
M - yoga
T - lift + 15-20 min light cardio
W - yoga, medium run
R - medium run
F - lift + 15-20 min light cardio
S - yoga, short run
S - long run
And my new workout will be:
M - yoga + intervals
T - lift + 15-20 min light cardio
W - speed run
R - yoga, ballet
F - lift + 15-20 min light cardio
S - yoga, 10K run
S - lift + 15-20 min light cardio0 -
You might have to re-arange your schedule for doing back and legs. I started running seriously about 3 years ago and always made sure I was never doing legs or lower back when running the same day or especially the day after. I fing if I do a really long distance anything over 15 k, my lower back starts to get a bit sore, but I was told by alot of long distance runners thats normal.....
I guess different people respond to the exercises in different ways but personally, despite squatting three times a week (I currently squat 90kg (198lbs), I've never found that this causes me problems during runs on the following day. maybe I'm a freak but I don't get DOMS from squats in my quads or glutes from lifting.
But, interestingly, I do when I run over 10miles and especially if I've been pushing the pace in say a half mara race. And, like you I find that I get a dull lower back ache (muscular) on longer runs, but I'd put that down to the Dead Lifts but maybe not.
Thanks: It's good to get some decent information on peoples experience with running and strength combined.0 -
I do both, but my goal is just to finish my half marathon (in 9 days).
I think you'll complete a half mara in under 9 days hehehhe.0
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