Gary Taubes

pitbulllover

Does anyone here follow Gary Taubes? I've been reading his books and his blog (garytaubes.com), and so much of it rings true to me. It seems like doctors have been trying to beat into me the theory of "calories in - calories out", and I always knew that this method didn't work for me yet I constantly felt like a failure instead of changing my methods. I've been seeing a clinical nutritionist and he had me cut my carb intake drastically, and for the first time in 3 years I've been able to see some (albeit relatively small) losses on the scale. But I'm now hopeful that if I stick with it I'll (crossing my fingers) be able to get most of this weight off.

One of my issues is that I've been a vegetarian since the age of 13. I'm now starting to think that being a vegetarian actually helped to make me fatter, and I want to start eating meat again but I haven't been able to get past the psychological aspect of it yet. I can't bear the thought of eating it, and especially cooking it!!

I guess I'm just looking for some like minded people that live a low carb lifestyle and can help me with recipes and tips. And for anyone who is against cutting carbs, there is absolutely no reason for you to reply. All of our bodies are different, and if your body can handle carbs without becoming insulin resistant and fat, then good for you. I'm just looking for others out there like me that need to stay away from carbs (or drastically limit them) in order to be healthy.

yarwell

he writes well, as a science writer he is distilling knowledge that's out there and becoming more available via the internet.

I don't think medical doctors get much education in nutrition unless they specialise you might like Drs Mike and Mary Eades too who plough a similar furrow to Taubes.

I'm a low carb eater. I eat lots of nice tasty filling stuff without a pile of starch to accompany it ;-)

pitbulllover

Thanks for responding! I'll look them up.

One question... in your opinion, do you think it's possible to go low carb AND vegetarian?? I am getting so sick of eggs, but at the same time I really don't want to eat meat. Hopefully if I do decide to eat meat, I'll get used to it and it will be less of a psychological struggle every time.

Sidesteal

I think his conclusions aren't supported by his cherry-picked studies and I'd recommend people don't put too much stock in his information.

UponThisRock

Thanks for responding! I'll look them up.

One question... in your opinion, do you think it's possible to go low carb AND vegetarian?? I am getting so sick of eggs, but at the same time I really don't want to eat meat. Hopefully if I do decide to eat meat, I'll get used to it and it will be less of a psychological struggle every time.

I'm not an expert of vegetarian eating, but I think it would be very difficult to do.

As far as Tabues, he does a good job of picking apart the lipid hypothesis. The rest of what he says starts with a premise that is based on a very old study that says that overweight people don't eat more than normal weight people. We've known for decades that this simply isn't true.

yarwell

in your opinion, do you think it's possible to go low carb AND vegetarian

yes, but.....

You should probably allow a higher carb limit than a meat eater, as you have less zero carb protein sources available to you.

I eat a lot of vegetables, dairy, nuts, seeds, eggs, etc - and a whole lot of meat and fish. You might want to start with fish if you're thinking of weaning yourself off vegeterianism - pescatarian ?

Perhaps you could make a list of protein sources you like or are prepared to eat and look up their protein and carb content, if you calculate the ratio grams protein per gram of carbs and sort them in order then eating the ones with highest values will help.

You also need to get into the mindset of eating fats and oils - more than half of your calories is likely to come from these sources.

roachhaley

he writes well, as a science writer he is distilling knowledge that's out there and becoming more available via the internet.

I don't think medical doctors get much education in nutrition unless they specialise you might like Drs Mike and Mary Eades too who plough a similar furrow to Taubes.

I'm a low carb eater. I eat lots of nice tasty filling stuff without a pile of starch to accompany it ;-)

From what I know (from friends who are in med school) doctors get the same education in nutrition as well as everything else. Nutritionists only have the nutrition side of education and lack all of the other stuff doctors learn. In short, I trust doctors more than nutritionists.

pitbulllover

As far as Tabues, he does a good job of picking apart the lipid hypothesis. The rest of what he says starts with a premise that is based on a very old study that says that overweight people don't eat more than normal weight people. We've known for decades that this simply isn't true.

I just read "Why we get fat and what to do about it". Most of it suggested that (although he's careful not to say anything with certainty because he admits that enough studies haven't been done), that people don't get fat because they overeat. They overeat because they get fat. We have the cause and effect backward.

There was an interesting study done with mice, and when their hormones were changed (either through surgery or injection), they gained weight regardless of what they were eating. One group of mice were allowed to eat as much as they want, and they over-ate and gained weight. The other group of mice had their calories restricted and were near starved, and they still gained weight and became just as fat. To compensate, they became very sedentary because they had no energy. Their metabolic rate dropped and they only moved when it was to go get their rations of food. (I don't have all the information on the study with me, but if you picked up the book you could read about it). This would obviously be hard to repeat with humans though.

pitbulllover

From what I know (from friends who are in med school) doctors get the same education in nutrition as well as everything else. Nutritionists only have the nutrition side of education and lack all of the other stuff doctors learn. In short, I trust doctors more than nutritionists.

The problem is (in my opinion) that there's so many conflicting theories on nutrition, and doctors are only taught what is accepted as true, not necessarily what is true.

UponThisRock

As far as Tabues, he does a good job of picking apart the lipid hypothesis. The rest of what he says starts with a premise that is based on a very old study that says that overweight people don't eat more than normal weight people. We've known for decades that this simply isn't true.

I just read "Why we get fat and what to do about it". Most of it suggested that (although he's careful not to say anything with certainty because he admits that enough studies haven't been done), that people don't get fat because they overeat. They overeat because they get fat. We have the cause and effect backward.

And he's 100%, certifiably, wrong as hell.

pitbulllover

in your opinion, do you think it's possible to go low carb AND vegetarian

yes, but.....

You should probably allow a higher carb limit than a meat eater, as you have less zero carb protein sources available to you.

I eat a lot of vegetables, dairy, nuts, seeds, eggs, etc - and a whole lot of meat and fish. You might want to start with fish if you're thinking of weaning yourself off vegeterianism - pescatarian ?

Perhaps you could make a list of protein sources you like or are prepared to eat and look up their protein and carb content, if you calculate the ratio grams protein per gram of carbs and sort them in order then eating the ones with highest values will help.

You also need to get into the mindset of eating fats and oils - more than half of your calories is likely to come from these sources.

I do eat fats, and seeds and nuts but I try to limit them. I've been eating a ton of vegetables lately (except peas/corn/potatoes), and all vegetables do have some carbs so I'm sure I'm eating more carbs than the average meat-eating-low-carber. Most of my protein comes from eggs.

I was going to start with chicken and fish if I do it... my husband is a meat eater but he hates fish so I have no idea how to even cook it lol. I've been trying to look up recipes but fish seems so complicated.

yarwell

In short, I trust doctors more than nutritionists.

Me too, but 18 +/- 12 hours of nutrition in US Medical schools ? http://www.med-ed-online.org/res00023.htm

pitbulllover

And he's 100%, certifiably, wrong as hell.

Where's your evidence to support that?

And why are you even here commenting if you don't agree with him??

PaleoPath4Lyfe

Thanks for responding! I'll look them up.

One question... in your opinion, do you think it's possible to go low carb AND vegetarian?? I am getting so sick of eggs, but at the same time I really don't want to eat meat. Hopefully if I do decide to eat meat, I'll get used to it and it will be less of a psychological struggle every time.

Yes, it is possible to be low carb and vegetarian.

Here are some resources for being low carb and vegetarian.

http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/vegetarian/Vegetarian_Low_Carb_Resources.htm

PaleoPath4Lyfe

in your opinion, do you think it's possible to go low carb AND vegetarian

yes, but.....

You should probably allow a higher carb limit than a meat eater, as you have less zero carb protein sources available to you.

I eat a lot of vegetables, dairy, nuts, seeds, eggs, etc - and a whole lot of meat and fish. You might want to start with fish if you're thinking of weaning yourself off vegeterianism - pescatarian ?

Perhaps you could make a list of protein sources you like or are prepared to eat and look up their protein and carb content, if you calculate the ratio grams protein per gram of carbs and sort them in order then eating the ones with highest values will help.

You also need to get into the mindset of eating fats and oils - more than half of your calories is likely to come from these sources.

I do eat fats, and seeds and nuts but I try to limit them. I've been eating a ton of vegetables lately (except peas/corn/potatoes), and all vegetables do have some carbs so I'm sure I'm eating more carbs than the average meat-eating-low-carber. Most of my protein comes from eggs.

I was going to start with chicken and fish if I do it... my husband is a meat eater but he hates fish so I have no idea how to even cook it lol. I've been trying to look up recipes but fish seems so complicated.

You don't want to limit fats in the absence of carbs.

PaleoPath4Lyfe

And he's 100%, certifiably, wrong as hell.

Where's your evidence to support that?

And why are you even here commenting if you don't agree with him??

There is no evidence to support that statement.

However, there is more and more evidence coming to support Gary Taubes

rileysowner

I have no horse in this race, but enjoy watching the action.

yarwell

I do eat fats, and seeds and nuts but I try to limit them. I've been eating a ton of vegetables lately (except peas/corn/potatoes), and all vegetables do have some carbs so I'm sure I'm eating more carbs than the average meat-eating-low-carber. Most of my protein comes from eggs.

Eggs are nicely balanced for a low carb diet - 60% of calories from fat from memory. Cheese omelette is also spot-on.

You macros are probably going to be something like <10% of calories from carbs, 20-30% from protein and the rest from fats and oils. You'll learn that lean protein sources don't fit this real well and traditionally lean foods like tuna and chicken have to be offset with oils and fats from other foods.

Fish is simple to cook, we had salmon for lunch - put 2 salmon fillets on tray, put tray in over at 160 C, wait 20 minutes, eat salmon with veg. How simple is that ! The problem I have with "recipes" is they seem to go all out to be complex and flowery, you're probably better off with a basic "how to cook" book aimed at high school students initially.

roachhaley

As far as Tabues, he does a good job of picking apart the lipid hypothesis. The rest of what he says starts with a premise that is based on a very old study that says that overweight people don't eat more than normal weight people. We've known for decades that this simply isn't true.

I just read "Why we get fat and what to do about it". Most of it suggested that (although he's careful not to say anything with certainty because he admits that enough studies haven't been done), that people don't get fat because they overeat. They overeat because they get fat. We have the cause and effect backward.

There was an interesting study done with mice, and when their hormones were changed (either through surgery or injection), they gained weight regardless of what they were eating. One group of mice were allowed to eat as much as they want, and they over-ate and gained weight. The other group of mice had their calories restricted and were near starved, and they still gained weight and became just as fat. To compensate, they became very sedentary because they had no energy. Their metabolic rate dropped and they only moved when it was to go get their rations of food. (I don't have all the information on the study with me, but if you picked up the book you could read about it). This would obviously be hard to repeat with humans though.

lol@taking studies using rats seriously.

Seriously guys, rats react differently than humans to a LOT of stuff. We've pretty much cured every disease in RATS, doesn't mean that same drug or treatment will work in humans.

Jacwhite22

And he's 100%, certifiably, wrong as hell.

Where's your evidence to support that?

And why are you even here commenting if you don't agree with him??

There is no evidence to support that statement.

However, there is more and more evidence coming to support Gary Taubes

orlly? link to said evidence?

Sidesteal

Plenty of evidence to diffuse a lot of what taubes says. Krieger effectively dismantled him.

And he's 100%, certifiably, wrong as hell.

Where's your evidence to support that?

And why are you even here commenting if you don't agree with him??

There is no evidence to support that statement.

However, there is more and more evidence coming to support Gary Taubes

VMarkV

You can still gain weight on low/no carb diets...it really does simply come down to calorie deficits/surpluses.

As an experiment to the lipid hypothesis, I purposely went on a high monounsaturated and high saturated fat diet (3500 kcal/day at least around 50g saturated fat, and around 200g total fat, mostly MUFAs little to no PUFA), little to no carbohydrates (green vegetables only), and moderate protein (60-80g/day). This lasted from last October until April (6 months).

My results for cholesterol: Total Cholesterol 336 mg/dL, HDL>100 mg/dL (the instrument used couldn't detect levels higher than 100 mg/dL for HDL so I couldn't get non-HDL readings. Also, I GAINED 10lbs (172lbs to 182 lbs) despite being low/no carb.

5 weeks later, I am back down 10lbs after using an If It Fits Your Macros (IIFYM) approach. I have inverted my fat and protein; getting around 170g protein and 80g fat and added in 100g carb based on daily activity (cardio mostly).

Ultimately, people who focus more on eating fat and protein over carbohydrates will have better appetite suppression leading to weight loss; however, calories still do matter and it is very possible to gain weight on a low/no carb diet.

yarwell

lol@taking studies using rats seriously.

you brought them up ;-)

UponThisRock

And he's 100%, certifiably, wrong as hell.

Where's your evidence to support that?

And why are you even here commenting if you don't agree with him??

Taubes has been torn apart inside and out other places on the internet, I don't have the time or energy to get into a pubmed ninja war.

The key point that Tabues is missing (or ignoring) is that it has been shown time and again that in studies where people self-report their food intake, they almost always under report.

roachhaley

lol@taking studies using rats seriously.

you brought them up ;-)

i didn't?

PLUMSGRL

OK, so I've known many vegetarians in my life, most are thin.
I've been a fan of body builders since the '80s, and remember several world ranked men that were vegetarian.

Go to Message board, click on groups (right below FOOD), search "vegetarian", there's a bunch of groups, check them out~

hdroddy

I was going to start with chicken and fish if I do it... my husband is a meat eater but he hates fish so I have no idea how to even cook it lol. I've been trying to look up recipes but fish seems so complicated.

I'm not a vegetarian, so I can't speak to a lot of it, though I'm enjoying reading the responses. But a lot of my protein comes from fish, and it is actually quite easy to fix.

Bake it or broil / grill it. About 20 - 22 minutes will adequately cook a filet at around 375 F. I prefer Tilapia and Salmon. If you haven't eaten a lot of fish, you might want to start with something like a Tilapia; very light flavor, doesn't taste fishy. Just season the filets lightly to your taste. I enjoy a bit of lemon pepper seasoning, for example. If you bake it rather than broil / grill, and if you like tart flavors, the filets are really good if you add a bit of lemon juice and lime juice and some garlic and herb seasoning. Simple stuff like that; doesn't have to be hard at all.

pitbulllover

You can still gain weight on low/no carb diets...it really does simply come down to calorie deficits/surpluses.

As an experiment to the lipid hypothesis, I purposely went on a high monounsaturated and high saturated fat diet (3500 kcal/day at least around 50g saturated fat, and around 200g total fat, mostly MUFAs little to no PUFA), little to no carbohydrates (green vegetables only), and moderate protein (60-80g/day). This lasted from last October until April (6 months).

My results for cholesterol: Total Cholesterol 336 mg/dL, HDL>100 mg/dL (the instrument used couldn't detect levels higher than 100 mg/dL for HDL so I couldn't get non-HDL readings. Also, I GAINED 10lbs (172lbs to 182 lbs) despite being low/no carb.

5 weeks later, I am back down 10lbs after using an If It Fits Your Macros (IIFYM) approach. I have inverted my fat and protein; getting around 170g protein and 80g fat and added in 100g carb based on daily activity (cardio mostly).

Ultimately, people who focus more on eating fat and protein over carbohydrates will have better appetite suppression leading to weight loss; however, calories still do matter and it is very possible to gain weight on a low/no carb diet.

So essentially, you used yourself (someone who was not overweight to begin with) as the only participant in a study to prove that fat people are doing something wrong.

What about my studies of 1 person (over a 100 pounds overweight) that tried multiple low calorie diets, including nutri-system, weight watchers, and everything else under the sun? Because this fat person didn't lose weight while following your healthy eating habits for months at a time.

And I do have hormone imbalances, PCOS, insulin resistance, slow thyroid, family history of obesity... the exact person that you'd want in that kind of "experiment".

yarwell

i didn't?

you did actually, the thing you replied to was about MICE.

Only teasing, but I did wonder if you had read it. There's a mouse with a genetic defect ( the ob/ob mouse ) which looks like a small balloon when allowed practically any food. Animal studies provide interesting leads on what might happen in humans, after all we share about 97.5% of our DNA with mice.

pitbulllover

Bake it or broil / grill it. About 20 - 22 minutes will adequately cook a filet at around 375 F. I prefer Tilapia and Salmon. If you haven't eaten a lot of fish, you might want to start with something like a Tilapia; very light flavor, doesn't taste fishy. Just season the filets lightly to your taste. I enjoy a bit of lemon pepper seasoning, for example. If you bake it rather than broil / grill, and if you like tart flavors, the filets are really good if you add a bit of lemon juice and lime juice and some garlic and herb seasoning. Simple stuff like that; doesn't have to be hard at all.

Thanks! Stupid question, but how do you know when it's cooked thoroughly? All recipes state "cook for this amount of time, give or take a few minutes"... well I have no idea how to know!

PaleoPath4Lyfe

You can still gain weight on low/no carb diets...it really does simply come down to calorie deficits/surpluses.

As an experiment to the lipid hypothesis, I purposely went on a high monounsaturated and high saturated fat diet (3500 kcal/day at least around 50g saturated fat, and around 200g total fat, mostly MUFAs little to no PUFA), little to no carbohydrates (green vegetables only), and moderate protein (60-80g/day). This lasted from last October until April (6 months).

My results for cholesterol: Total Cholesterol 336 mg/dL, HDL>100 mg/dL (the instrument used couldn't detect levels higher than 100 mg/dL for HDL so I couldn't get non-HDL readings. Also, I GAINED 10lbs (172lbs to 182 lbs) despite being low/no carb.

5 weeks later, I am back down 10lbs after using an If It Fits Your Macros (IIFYM) approach. I have inverted my fat and protein; getting around 170g protein and 80g fat and added in 100g carb based on daily activity (cardio mostly).

Ultimately, people who focus more on eating fat and protein over carbohydrates will have better appetite suppression leading to weight loss; however, calories still do matter and it is very possible to gain weight on a low/no carb diet.

So essentially, you used yourself (someone who was not overweight to begin with) as the only participant in a study to prove that fat people are doing something wrong.

What about my studies of 1 person (over a 100 pounds overweight) that tried multiple low calorie diets, including nutri-system, weight watchers, and everything else under the sun? Because this fat person didn't lose weight while following your healthy eating habits for months at a time.

And I do have hormone imbalances, PCOS, insulin resistance, slow thyroid, family history of obesity... the exact person that you'd want in that kind of "experiment".

I am in the boat with you..........hormone imbalances, PCOS, was diabetic, thyroid disease.

Between Dr Atkins, Gary Taubes and Dr Jack Kruse I am finally losing weight again and re-gaining my health.