"Ideal" Body
Replies
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This is a great thread! It has been very informational and inspiring. Since weight lifting was the focus of the thread, I have a question about weight training (free weights and machines) vs. body weight training (push ups, pull ups, etc..) and their respective benefits? Is one more effective than the other in building muscle? I've been doing more cardio than resistance training and after reading this thread I'm looking into revamping my workouts to include more resistance training. Thanks all!
The biggest advantage to free weights is that there is a significant amount more flexibility in what you can do - both with the type of exercise and the heaviness of the weights which makes them more effective in my opinion.
Body weight exercises should not be discounted at all however and are great for folks who cannot get to the gym. Push ups for example are excellent and you will often see people doing push ups in the gym right next to the free weights. They can also be adapted to hit different muscle groups and in intenstity (e.g. raising your legs). They are also really good when starting out as you can do modified push ups.
I am not a fan of machines as I find they often make the lifting awkward (you can end up having bad form) and also do not work your core as effectively. They are also less flexible in what you can do.
I agree and also well said but I still like and incorporate machines.
:happy: Some are just easier on my joints and I like the variety. 0 -
This is a great thread! It has been very informational and inspiring. Since weight lifting was the focus of the thread, I have a question about weight training (free weights and machines) vs. body weight training (push ups, pull ups, etc..) and their respective benefits? Is one more effective than the other in building muscle? I've been doing more cardio than resistance training and after reading this thread I'm looking into revamping my workouts to include more resistance training. Thanks all!
It's going to depend on how the exercises are performed. If you're doing weight training, and performing it in a 'traditional' bodyweight manner (the100 pushup challenge for example)...the your results won't differ much. If you're doing bodyweight training, and performing it in a more traditional 'strength training' manner (failure/loss of form in 5-8 reps)...the results will be similar.
In a strength training circumstance, weights have the advantage in how quickly you can ramp up your resistance (just a change of a plate versus a new exercise putting more leverage on your muscles), and the level to which it can be ramped (infinite, versus the very limit of leverage your bodyweight can provide). Bodyweight has the advantage of convenience (you can do virtually all of it at home), cost (free...worst case you go down to your nearest school playground).
In the end, for most women...either/or will work. Most likely though, you'll see faster results with weights...simply because of the mindset you'll have going in (you'll push harder).
Agreed if you don't have access to a gym or weights then you can still do body-weight exercises in lieu of this.
"The type of exercise is not the most important criterion; for example, the perctoralis and triceps muscle groups can be trained by perfoming the free weight bench press exercise, the chest bench press exercise on a variety of selectorized machines, or push-ups on the floor or stability ball. As long as the intesity is at the necessary threshold and applied to the correct muscles, adaptation will occur; regardless of the type of exercise"<-- NSCA
Edit: I would advise eating an adequate amount of protein as this will also help.
Yep! It's a very complicated way of saying 'If you pick up 'X' weight, and the difficulty of such is that you can only do it 5-8 times, you will build strength. 'X' can be your body, free weight, machine weights, your car...it doesn't matter.
Now also, as has been said, freeweights build a more solid core, simply because they tie in your entire body in ways that machines can't. They also build strength in surrounding (stabilizing) muscles, so the benefit is twofold. If you have the choice, always choose freeweights. But also remember, if you do so...you've always got to keep safety first in your mind.0 -
Bingo^ and LOL at "x" can be your car :laugh:This is a great thread! It has been very informational and inspiring. Since weight lifting was the focus of the thread, I have a question about weight training (free weights and machines) vs. body weight training (push ups, pull ups, etc..) and their respective benefits? Is one more effective than the other in building muscle? I've been doing more cardio than resistance training and after reading this thread I'm looking into revamping my workouts to include more resistance training. Thanks all!
It's going to depend on how the exercises are performed. If you're doing weight training, and performing it in a 'traditional' bodyweight manner (the100 pushup challenge for example)...the your results won't differ much. If you're doing bodyweight training, and performing it in a more traditional 'strength training' manner (failure/loss of form in 5-8 reps)...the results will be similar.
In a strength training circumstance, weights have the advantage in how quickly you can ramp up your resistance (just a change of a plate versus a new exercise putting more leverage on your muscles), and the level to which it can be ramped (infinite, versus the very limit of leverage your bodyweight can provide). Bodyweight has the advantage of convenience (you can do virtually all of it at home), cost (free...worst case you go down to your nearest school playground).
In the end, for most women...either/or will work. Most likely though, you'll see faster results with weights...simply because of the mindset you'll have going in (you'll push harder).
Agreed if you don't have access to a gym or weights then you can still do body-weight exercises in lieu of this.
"The type of exercise is not the most important criterion; for example, the perctoralis and triceps muscle groups can be trained by perfoming the free weight bench press exercise, the chest bench press exercise on a variety of selectorized machines, or push-ups on the floor or stability ball. As long as the intesity is at the necessary threshold and applied to the correct muscles, adaptation will occur; regardless of the type of exercise"<-- NSCA
Edit: I would advise eating an adequate amount of protein as this will also help.
Yep! It's a very complicated way of saying 'If you pick up 'X' weight, and the difficulty of such is that you can only do it 5-8 times, you will build strength. 'X' can be your body, free weight, machine weights, your car...it doesn't matter.
Now also, as has been said, freeweights build a more solid core, simply because they tie in your entire body in ways that machines can't. They also build strength in surrounding (stabilizing) muscles, so the benefit is twofold. If you have the choice, always choose freeweights. But also remember, if you do so...you've always got to keep safety first in your mind.
Simply put free weight/s use your bodies natural movements so this help keep injurys down as well.
Agree with safety first but also remember to always concentrate on keeping your form correct on all your exercises at all times.0 -
So, here's my thing. I don't want a super toned/athletic looking body. I want to be a little soft, a little squishy. But...I don't want to be flabby and saggy. It seems like, around here, the options are toned and muscely (ha, not a word...y'all know what I mean) or flabby and saggy, even if you're "thin". I know that I won't necessarily "bulk up" like a man if I do weight training...but I see pics on here of the girls who "lift heavy" and although they look *awesome*, that's not really what I want to look like. It's just my personal preference.
I'm currently doing the 30 day shred and my Navy SEAL buddy has told me to do body weight exercises instead of lifting weights. Any other suggestions? I hope my explanation made sense...and that everyone will be polite when answering :flowerforyou:
Just because a woman lifts heavy weights doesn't automatically mean "muscly" body & the word toned also means seeing muscle definition on a human body.
To get that athletic look, aside from weight lifting you need to have a low body fat percentage that ranges from mid to high teens. The normal body fat percentage for a woman is 21-24% depending on your age. So for you not to look "too athletic", you should just settle for that normal body fat percentage.
I currently do 8 pull-ups, 120 push-ups, bench press 60 lbs., deadlift 70 lbs., squat 75 lbs. arm exercises 35 lbs. each arm but I look nowhere near those "super toned" ladies as you can see from my profile picture since my body fat percentage is close to 20%. I'm aiming for a Jillian Michaels body so I need to lower my body fat percentage to about 17%.0 -
The biggest advantage to free weights is that there is a significant amount more flexibility in what you can do - both with the type of exercise and the heaviness of the weights which makes them more effective in my opinion.
Body weight exercises should not be discounted at all however and are great for folks who cannot get to the gym. Push ups for example are excellent and you will often see people doing push ups in the gym right next to the free weights. They can also be adapted to hit different muscle groups and in intenstity (e.g. raising your legs). They are also really good when starting out as you can do modified push ups.
I am not a fan of machines as I find they often make the lifting awkward (you can end up having bad form) and also do not work your core as effectively. They are also less flexible in what you can do.
Push-ups are one of the greatest compound exercises that shouldn't be taken for granted. I do that alternating with bench press as one of my supersets. There are also different variations of push-ups & the hardest one is the stability ball push-ups (I can only manage to do up to 10) while the easiest one is the table/incline push-ups.0 -
As someone who has been lifting weights for quite some time, I am really really happy to see how many women on MPF are seeing the value of lifting weights and encouraging others to do so. However don't get toooooo excited. Adding a bit of 'heavy' lifting in isn't going to miraculously give you a lean physique. That is still about dieting to get that BF% down which isn't easy! Also there are still massive amounts of variables involved in how much you'll get out of it in the first place. For starters the definition of 'heavy' seems pretty loose around these parts.0
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As someone who has been lifting weights for quite some time, I am really really happy to see how many women on MPF are seeing the value of lifting weights and encouraging others to do so. However don't get toooooo excited. Adding a bit of 'heavy' lifting in isn't going to miraculously give you a lean physique. That is still about dieting to get that BF% down which isn't easy! Also there are still massive amounts of variables involved in how much you'll get out of it in the first place. For starters the definition of 'heavy' seems pretty loose around these parts.
Heavy - Anything that causes failure or loss of form within 5-8 reps.0 -
As someone who has been lifting weights for quite some time, I am really really happy to see how many women on MPF are seeing the value of lifting weights and encouraging others to do so. However don't get toooooo excited. Adding a bit of 'heavy' lifting in isn't going to miraculously give you a lean physique. That is still about dieting to get that BF% down which isn't easy! Also there are still massive amounts of variables involved in how much you'll get out of it in the first place. For starters the definition of 'heavy' seems pretty loose around these parts.
crisanderson27 covered the diet/lean bit with that example on page 2. with pictures too :bigsmile:
Definition of heavy 75% or 75+% of your 1 rep max.
or
6-8 reps
Note: You wouldn't want to just jump into that as you should always do some warm ups first. I pyramid lift my weight up to heavy.
When I do cardio I always stretch and start off slow then work my way up in speed as well.0 -
Totally agree with those definitions, however I have seen the term 'lifting heavy' used to decribe many things outside that definition (on MPF not this thread). I am not making the point to diss anyone else's efforts at all, but just as a caveat that there is a broad spectrum of results that might come from the broad spectrum of ways that people incorporate weights into their workouts. I just don't want anyone to think that incorporating some weights is a magic bullet.0
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Totally agree with those definitions, however I have seen the term 'lifting heavy' used to decribe many things outside that definition (on MPF not this thread). I am not making the point to diss anyone else's efforts at all, but just as a caveat that there is a broad spectrum of results that might come from the broad spectrum of ways that people incorporate weights into their workouts. I just don't want anyone to think that incorporating some weights is a magic bullet.
LOL you did not read this whole thread before posting did you? :flowerforyou: I think diet, cardio, and strength training were all incorporated as well as the TOPIC: "Ideal" Body in this thread. :drinker:0 -
Totally agree with those definitions, however I have seen the term 'lifting heavy' used to decribe many things outside that definition (on MPF not this thread). I am not making the point to diss anyone else's efforts at all, but just as a caveat that there is a broad spectrum of results that might come from the broad spectrum of ways that people incorporate weights into their workouts. I just don't want anyone to think that incorporating some weights is a magic bullet.
LOL you did not read this whole thread before posting did you? :flowerforyou: I think diet, cardio, and strength training were all incorporated as well as the TOPIC: "Ideal" Body in this thread. :drinker:
I did read the whole thread, but I concede my post was more a flow of consiousness about this topic in general than a constructive addition to the thread.0 -
You definitely won't get an athletic figure by accident. Women who look that way usually make very specific choices about what they are consuming and how much they are outputting.
As you get further along in your journey to health and fitness, there is a good chance that what you decide is the right physical type for you will change. Just break a sweat as often as you can, every day if possible, and don't eat crap, and eventually you will adore whatever body type you are in.0 -
I haven' read this whole thread but the way I see it is that once I get the fat off, I will want to continue having goals of bettering myself so that I will keep it off for good. If we forget where we have come from, then chances of gaining back are pretty great. Thinking in the long term is what I have chosen to do this time around to make it the last time around. But in the short term getting to normal weight range is my main goal. Then I will re-evaluate. I am not going back to the old me that is for sure.0
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There are some interesting responses on here and lots of different ideas about the best way to train. I would say that to get that "ripped" muscle definition you are referring to - you really have to train very hard and very specifically. Most people exercising regularly won't achieve that kind of look even when they get to quite a low BF %.
Do the exercise you enjoy to improve your fitness and the improved shape will eventually reveal itself. You don't need to "stop" when you get to your ideal shape - you might need to just be careful to increase your calorie consumption so that you maintain your weight and stop losing.0 -
"a little soft, a little squishy" - that's body fat. I have this now and I lift heavy. It's all about the body fat %, at least what you're describing here is.
That makes sense...so would it be more about trying to maintain that BF% once I hit a point that I'm happy with? I guess I'm just concerned that I'll hit a point where I'm sorta happy but want to look a little less flabby and end up overshooting my mark lol. And honestly...the idea of lifting just doesn't appeal to me.
Using weights to get there is just more efficient. You could do body weight workouts though, if you don't want to lift. Lifting isn't for men, or for bodybuilders, or health nuts... I am none of those. I lift because it works. It's efficient. And believe me... it is quite easy to maintain body fat. Lol. Your body prefers "maintaining"... it fights for homeostasis. It's MUCH harder to change things.
You have absolutely nothing to fear. I'd kill to drop body fat %, like yesterday.
It's just not what I prefer, honestly. I actually really dislike the gym altogether. I'd rather workout at home or outside. And lifting just seems...boring. I'm easily bored, lol.
You don't need a gym... bodyweight training is awesome! I personally would like to lift heavy but I can't get to a gym right now. I do bodyweight training at home in my living room instead (I don't log it, so you can't see it on your news feed
). I love it! 0 -
For me, Rob Kearney. I think that would get the desired effect
Ladies if you google him I think you'll agreed0 -
okay, guys - it's fine to say that YOU are not attracted to "super skinny girls", but you really shouldn't generalize and assume that no guy is attracted to someone who is built thin. some girls are naturally small, or "super skinny", and disparaging them is as bad as saying similar things about heavier girls.
i realize this site is predominantly used for weight loss, but keep in mind that some people may be using it to keep healthy without the intention of actually losing weight. and keep in mind that some of these people might be "super skinny".
ps. i'm not one of those people, before you assume so. but they're around, so be respectful.
THIS! I'm sick of seeing remarks like 'Ugh, skinny girls are disgusting' plastered around the forums. It's pretty offensive to girls that are naturally very thin and don't have much in the way of curves. I do consider myself to have boobs and hips, by the way, so this isn't even the rant of an embittered thin woman. It would be like the women on here saying 'Oh guys, just be aware that women only like huge muscles'. It's a sweeping generalisation of what people are attracted to and it's not true to everyone.
Plus, it suggests women are losing weight or working on their bodies just to get a man. Simply not true. Some women aren't even attracted to men for one. Most of us are here for health and fitness reasons. It really pisses me off when I see things like 'Don't get too thin or the boys won't like you!' posted on here.0 -
I just wanted to say this is one of the nicest threads I've seen in a long time
Makes me happy to see everyone being supportive 0 -
just bumping so I can read more later0
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So, here's my thing. I don't want a super toned/athletic looking body. I want to be a little soft, a little squishy. But...I don't want to be flabby and saggy. It seems like, around here, the options are toned and muscely (ha, not a word...y'all know what I mean) or flabby and saggy, even if you're "thin". I know that I won't necessarily "bulk up" like a man if I do weight training...but I see pics on here of the girls who "lift heavy" and although they look *awesome*, that's not really what I want to look like. It's just my personal preference.
I'm currently doing the 30 day shred and my Navy SEAL buddy has told me to do body weight exercises instead of lifting weights. Any other suggestions? I hope my explanation made sense...and that everyone will be polite when answering :flowerforyou:
Plyometrics.. All I'm going to say...0 -
Awwwwww, y'all!
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So, here's my thing. I don't want a super toned/athletic looking body. I want to be a little soft, a little squishy. But...I don't want to be flabby and saggy. It seems like, around here, the options are toned and muscely (ha, not a word...y'all know what I mean) or flabby and saggy, even if you're "thin". I know that I won't necessarily "bulk up" like a man if I do weight training...but I see pics on here of the girls who "lift heavy" and although they look *awesome*, that's not really what I want to look like. It's just my personal preference.
I'm currently doing the 30 day shred and my Navy SEAL buddy has told me to do body weight exercises instead of lifting weights. Any other suggestions? I hope my explanation made sense...and that everyone will be polite when answering :flowerforyou:
Plyometrics.. All I'm going to say...
Ok...to teh googelz!0 -
just a note: guys dont like super skinny girls dont aim for that
This is a flat out lie. Lots of men are attracted to different shapes, just because you have your preference doesn't mean it's the end all be all answer.0 -
So, here's my thing. I don't want a super toned/athletic looking body. I want to be a little soft, a little squishy. But...I don't want to be flabby and saggy. It seems like, around here, the options are toned and muscely (ha, not a word...y'all know what I mean) or flabby and saggy, even if you're "thin". I know that I won't necessarily "bulk up" like a man if I do weight training...but I see pics on here of the girls who "lift heavy" and although they look *awesome*, that's not really what I want to look like. It's just my personal preference.
I'm currently doing the 30 day shred and my Navy SEAL buddy has told me to do body weight exercises instead of lifting weights. Any other suggestions? I hope my explanation made sense...and that everyone will be polite when answering :flowerforyou:
Plyometrics.. All I'm going to say...
Ok...to teh googelz!
Plyometrics are bodyweight exercises. I listed a whole workout full of them last night
.just a note: guys dont like super skinny girls dont aim for that
This is a flat out lie. Lots of men are attracted to different shapes, just because you have your preference doesn't mean it's the end all be all answer.
Annnd here it comes. People taking offense where none was intended and totally derailing the rather rare for MFP quality of the thread. I know you weren't the first, but you're certainly the most aggressive. I think that most of the rest of us 'adults' in this thread, including the OP...know full well that men all have different tastes.
/sigh0 -
Plyometrics are bodyweight exercises. I listed a whole workout full of them last night.
I googled it...and Holy crap!0 -
It is impossible to choose where you lose fat from. For me, I lose it first in my boobs and my tummy, but also my butt. Fortunately, I like being toned. In order to get the body you desire, you have to have a certain body type to begin with.
So true. I want a really toned body, but not big muscles. And I'd like thin arms. I can't have that - I'm only 5 feet tall and I have short "stubby" arms and short "stubby" legs that unfortunately carry fat and flab, no matter how much I work out. I wear a size 6. I look pretty good in clothes - but ewwww, not without them :-) Wish I had a different body type (and a tummy that hadn't birthed 3 kids!), but I don't. I think it's great that you want to be a little squishy, and I wouldn't worry about getting overtoned - you will know when enough is enough. I would suggest a trainer at the gym - they listen to what you want to do and help you get there. They are good to use for just a while to help you figure things out and then you can do it all on your own. 0 -
It is impossible to choose where you lose fat from. For me, I lose it first in my boobs and my tummy, but also my butt. Fortunately, I like being toned. In order to get the body you desire, you have to have a certain body type to begin with.
So true. I want a really toned body, but not big muscles. And I'd like thin arms. I can't have that - I'm only 5 feet tall and I have short "stubby" arms and short "stubby" legs that unfortunately carry fat and flab, no matter how much I work out. I wear a size 6. I look pretty good in clothes - but ewwww, not without them :-) Wish I had a different body type (and a tummy that hadn't birthed 3 kids!), but I don't. I think it's great that you want to be a little squishy, and I wouldn't worry about getting overtoned - you will know when enough is enough. I would suggest a trainer at the gym - they listen to what you want to do and help you get there. They are good to use for just a while to help you figure things out and then you can do it all on your own.
I might look into a trainer. I know my aunt and cousin have a guy they use that they seem to like. Thanks!0 -
It is impossible to choose where you lose fat from. For me, I lose it first in my boobs and my tummy, but also my butt. Fortunately, I like being toned. In order to get the body you desire, you have to have a certain body type to begin with.
So true. I want a really toned body, but not big muscles. And I'd like thin arms. I can't have that - I'm only 5 feet tall and I have short "stubby" arms and short "stubby" legs that unfortunately carry fat and flab, no matter how much I work out. I wear a size 6. I look pretty good in clothes - but ewwww, not without them :-) Wish I had a different body type (and a tummy that hadn't birthed 3 kids!), but I don't. I think it's great that you want to be a little squishy, and I wouldn't worry about getting overtoned - you will know when enough is enough. I would suggest a trainer at the gym - they listen to what you want to do and help you get there. They are good to use for just a while to help you figure things out and then you can do it all on your own.
I might look into a trainer. I know my aunt and cousin have a guy they use that they seem to like. Thanks!
The problem with personal trainers is that it's much like Russian roulette. You never know what you're going to get...and 90% of them are VERY convincing that their way is the only proper way. Usually it's that 90% that you want to avoid like the plague too. I have an MFP friend that lives local to me. She was telling me a story the other day about her experiences with her personal trainer, and his manager. Before she joined her gym, she told them she wanted to lift heavy, and learn to use the freeweights. They said 'Excellent goal!! We can do that!' She signed...began her program...and two weeks into it, she'd been doing almost no upper body work, tons of cardio, and almost entirely low weight/high reps on machines. She kept asking her trainer when they were going to lift heavy. He would always derail her, avoiding the question. Finally...she stopped completely, turned to him, and asked him point blank.
'When are we going to lift heavy, when am I going to learn to use freeweights, and WHY have I done no upper body work?!'
His response was 'Look. The freeweight section isn't beneficial to women, nor is heavy lifting. You need high reps and low weight to tone. You don't want to bulk up do you??'.
She immediately walked away to find the manager and try to get her trainer switched (along with her money back). The manager straight up told her that the freeweight section was for men, or women who wanted to bulk like men. She ended up having to go to the general manager...and may end up having to leave the gym completely because they're pretty much refusing to train her in the way she wants to train. I told her if she really needs a personal trainer, find one who is willing to simply help her with her form while she does Stronglifts 5x5 or Starting Strength. Other than that...most of them are going to tell her the same exact thing.
This is NOT, what you want.
MFP is very progressive in that there's a large population of women who've come to realize the benefits of heavy strength training, and the fact that women don't have the genetic ability to 'bulk' like a man on their own. It requires hormones in your body that you simply don't have enough of in order to do so. Most of your gyms, and personal trainers even...are still in the dark ages regarding this fact, which is a surprise...because the ones that have women that ARE bulking...pretty much know they're on testosterone supplements, and or taking steroids.
Anyways, sorry for the long winded rant about trainers here. There ARE good ones out there...but the chances of finding them are slim.0 -
Still happy to see this thread hasn't completely derailed! Great advice from you that are already looking amazing (Yes I do have a huge crush on crisanderson's back and shock_wave's arms ), and lots of inspiration for those of us who are still contemplating our ideal bodies and how we want to get there. Thanks to the ladies that weighed in too - definitely inspiration.
I, for one, am excited about the idea of starting to work with weights. Not quite sure if my motivation is my body, or appreciating/ogling the men in the weightroom though... ha ha0 -
Still happy to see this thread hasn't completely derailed! Great advice from you that are already looking amazing (Yes I do have a huge crush on crisanderson's back and shock_wave's arms ), and lots of inspiration for those of us who are still contemplating our ideal bodies and how we want to get there. Thanks to the ladies that weighed in too - definitely inspiration.
I, for one, am excited about the idea of starting to work with weights. Not quite sure if my motivation is my body, or appreciating/ogling the men in the weightroom though... ha ha
:blushing:
Whatever the motivation lol...go with it!
And remember, 90% of those men will give you respect for stepping up, and help you out in any way you ask. There's no reason to be intimidated by the freeweight section.0
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