Survey time: Should a guy pay on a first date?

Articeluvsmemphis

I pay.

Why, because no matter what society says about equal this or any other crap. I am a man. I do not need your permission to be a man. I will not have you dictate to me how to be a man. If you do not wish a second date, that is fine. The first date is to see if we both qualify for a second date.

Now, if we have been together for a long time, and we go out and you wish to pay.......
I will still pay. Because I am a man. I do not need your permission to be a man. etc.

Amen!!

You and I would get along very well lol. Unfortunately though, with the direction this thread has turned (and no one's going to go back and read 20 pages of it.../sigh!), we're going to start hearing big words like 'misogynistic', 'cis-normative', and 'patriarchal' to describe responses like that.

Maybe the best response is just to stand there and repeat:

I am a man. I do not need your permission to be a man. I will not have you dictate to me how to be a man.

Lol.

*CLAPS HANDS*

Broderick50

GUY SHOULD PAY IN 90 % OF THE TIME OTHER 10% WHEN GIRL ASK HIM AS FRIENDS AND THEY STATE BEFORE HAND THEY'RE GOING DUTCH EVEN THEN YOU SHOULD OFFER TO PAY IT'S JUST MANNERS BUT YOU GOTTA BE CAREFUL SOME GIRLS KNOW THIS AND TRY AND GET A FREE MEAL OUT OF YOU THATS WHEN YOU DIP OUT BEFORE THE CHECK COMES GOTCHA *****

bestbassist

Sure a guy should pay on a first date - HIS PORTION of the bill. Chivalry is a cancer.

Rhea30

@chrisanderson

"I wasn't judging you hun, I was judging the rationality of your argument, and its bearing on the validity of any future discussion. so, here's my logic"

You said/implied
Majority of people think men should pay
Therefore, because of this I am right to insist to pay.

I replied:
A societal norm does not necessarily mean it's the right way do do things.
I used women's right to vote as an example.

This is not irrational so not sure where you think the logic is flawed. It is permissible in logic to use examples to argue for a point. To call me irrational after that was ironically irrational of you.

However, your response to my stance that they are comparable, left me scratching my head.
I use a type of gun to hunt (I assume animals)
The Navy used a different gun to kill people in world war 2.
Not sure how that is rational or what point you trying to make.

Umm...a 'comparable' societal norm would be holding doors open.

As for my analogy...

I hunt with a 30-06.
In ww2, the navy used a much larger M1 cannon to bring aircraft out of the sky.

I pay for dates.
100yrs ago women were oppressed and they weren't allowed to vote.

I think that the point is pretty clear. Both of my examples are guns, but are so drastically different in purpose and overall effect as to be incomparable.

Both of your examples are societal norms, but are so drastically different in purpose and overall effect...as to be...you guessed it.

Incmoparable.

'Let' is a perfect example of this. I wouldn't 'let' (assuming normal circumstances) you pay on our first date, any more than I'd 'let' you walk in front of a moving bus."
Not sure what you mean by this. Would paying for dinner the same as risking my life?

I asked you which of those threw up the red flag...because that's what you were saying.

Red flags go up when person states absolutes like " I would never" in regards to perfectly normal thing like treating someone to dinner. Yes, woman can show appreciation a different way, but why would you restrict it?

Yes, I did recall that your circumstances had changed but that you stated you had a really hard time accepting this, that you didn't like it. Kinda proves my point that with your insistence on being the provider, it will create a difficult situation. If your masculinity is determined by you being the provider, you may have struggles with your self esteem which almost always has a detrimental effect on relationships.

I was unhappy accepting it mostly because...due to other issues (unrelated to this specific topic), the relationship was in doubt. Had we been together longer, and been more sure of ourselves overall, it would have been the next logical step, and completely accepted. I thought i made that clear in the final statement of that post...but again, my words have been picked apart to mean something they weren't intended to.

My masculinity isn't determined by anything by my own sense of self. Any feelings of insecurity I may or may not have...come from real issues that impact real parts of my life. For example, Arizona is a mother's rights state. My children, that I have sole custody of as we speak...are in very real danger of being forced to live with a woman who has never put their needs before her own, and has proven this time and again, due to that simple fact. All because no one asked me if I wanted to give birth to them.

THAT is something that makes me feel insecure.

Not whether I pay for a date. What not being allowed to pay for a date does, is puts up a red flag (I really dislike that term) that the woman who is refusing to allow this has an overblown sense of her own 'feminist self'...and in the end, it will cause problems for us. Because the definition of 'independence' is counter to the definition of 'together'. If I wanted independence, I'd stay single.

Anyhow, as I said...TotallyTasha gets it. It harms her in NO WAY to give her man the things he needs to be the man she loves...and the fact that she is able to do so without any loss of 'self'...proves that she is truly her own person. I gave my ex girlfriend what she wanted (to help with the bills, and pay for our time together when I wasn't capable) because she felt she needed to, and to not allow it would have been a slap in her face...at the worst possible time for her and us. No, I wasn't happy about it...but the fact that I did it anyway, and appreciated her for it...meant the world to her. And so...by giving up that 'masculinity' you mentioned...I didn't give up anything of my 'self'.

I was able to put her first...which in the end is always more important to me.

The thing is, this started not because a woman not allowing a guy to pay for a date but a guy who stated he would NEVER let a woman pay. Either way it never feels good for someone not being allowed one way or another. A guy shouldn't have to feel intimated because he wants pay for a date but at the same time a woman shouldn't feel intimated for wanting to pay or split a date as well.

PurplePookie

I love it when a man pays for dinner, opens my door, pulls out my chair and any other thing he can do to make me feel special. Yes, I'm able to do all of it for myself but quite frankly I would rather have a man do it. The bottom line is I want a man that treats me like a queen and lets me treat him like a king. If he want to make me feel special than I'm darn well going to let him. It doesn't make me less of a woman to allow a man to 'care for me' in these ways - it just makes me happy.

crisanderson27

The thing is, this started not because a woman not allowing a guy to pay for a date but a guy who stated he would NEVER let a woman pay. Either way it never feels good for someone not being allowed one way or another. A guy shouldn't have to feel intimated because he wants pay for a date but at the same time a woman shouldn't feel intimated for wanting to pay or split a date as well.

I would never willingly let a woman pay for a 'date'. Once it's to the point where it's 'going out' rather than 'going on a date'...that can become a bit more flexible.

And I never said any woman shouldn't be allowed to pay. I have simply stated that if it's that big an issue to her...she wouldn't want to be with me anyhow, and should move on.

I was happy to leave it at that, but got called in 72 ways after.

eeeekie

Yes.

Especially if he asked you out.

joejccva71

I think dudes should always pay in general. Since your first date is usually intiated by the guy he should pay.....pretty simple.

So wait, you're saying that a man should always pay? (just making sure I heard you correctly)

futuremalestripper

This is never an issue for me.
I just don't bring my wallet on first dates.

mariapuhl

I've kind of read some of this and kind of zoned out on other parts.

Here's my opinions - While I love it when a guy pays, I'm always open to splitting it. I don't mind at all. I feel like then there's no pressure, no expectations, etc.

And now, with my boyfriend - I pay for most everything. Why? I make 2.5 times more than him so I can afford it more than he can, and I'm the one who WANTS to go out. If it is something he really wants to do and wants me to come along (like some concert with some weird band), he pays. But generally, I do.

SarahKJ0704

If i had to pay for a first date , i would never go out with them again .. idk thats just me .

sweet110

Well, this is all very silly! But I'm enjoying it.

I think you're all right. Because, here's the thing. Nobody *should* be doing anything (except following the law, but you get what I mean). We all do what we want. And then, we judge everyone else accordingly. If someone offers to pay and the other party is offended...then, clearly they don't have compatible views on things. And shouldn't date again.

As for me, I could care less. But I will say, I don't like game playing. A lady shouldn't verbally offer to pay if its all really a test. She can reach for the bill, and let him graciously offer, "oh no, I've got it." But to actually say "Oh no, Dave. Its fine, I've got it" when you really mean "you better not let me pay. This is a test of your manhood, your manners, and your morals. Choose your next words *very carefully*..." That's the kind of silliness that gives women a bad name.

bert16

"Couldn't care less"... not "could care less". If the latter were true, it means that you care at least somewhat.

Sorry - pet peeve.

jennifer_417

There are no hard-and-fast rules, as far as I'm concerned. Generally, I think that whoever asks should pay. Once you've progressed into a relationship, there should be more give-and take. For me, I've usually let the guy pay at the beginning, then after that, it's whichever one of us has money at the time.

I would never offer to pay if I didn't intend to pay. I don't understand that. It's just dishonest.

j4nash

Lol, I love this thread. For those that don't know, yes I pay for first dates, open doors, blah blah blah.

I hate the head of the household bullsh*t and certainly don't need to drain my bank account to feel like a man.

One other poster mentioned on here the cooking, cleaning, maintaining the house side of traditionialist values. I find it ironic how many women these days SUCK at cooking, cleaning or any of the other traditionalist roles that are complementary to the belief that a man should be the sole provider. I grew up around women that were self-maintaining and independent and it's probably the reason I have these views. I was in awe that women/wives were incapable of driving, pumping gas, mowing the lawn, maintaining a car, dealing with finances etc. I always run across the I want my cake and eat it too syndrome. The I'm pretty, you owe me something because I'm a girl, and by the way, I'll cook for you once a month or give you access to my precious time to keep up my end of the deal.

And think about it, typical time to get married/move in together is years! Why would I pay for everything in-between? Seems fruitless.

xBeautifulBreakdown

I will always offer to pay my half on the first date but if you actually let me pay, there will NEVER be a second date. Please, be a gentleman and pick up the tab. Hold my door open and stand back as I walk through. All these little things make me feel like the lady that I am. I don't mind paying every once in a while once we are dating but the man should definitely pay for the first date.

brittanyscherich

The man should absolutely pay for the first date! I'm a woman that believes in equality of the sexes- complete eqaulity. But I also NEED chivalry in a man. My husband pays most of the time, he opens doors for me, does all the chivalrous "man" things, and that's the way I want it to be! And I'm a woman so you can't call me sexist or whatever LOL
I miss when guys would court girls, call them beautiful, ask their father for her hand in marriage. Now they yell out from a car at them, and knock them up and if he stays around, rarely marries you. I need romance! haha

brittanyscherich

Lol, I love this thread. For those that don't know, yes I pay for first dates, open doors, blah blah blah.

I hate the head of the household bullsh*t and certainly don't need to drain my bank account to feel like a man.

One other poster mentioned on here the cooking, cleaning, maintaining the house side of traditionialist values. I find it ironic how many women these days SUCK at cooking, cleaning or any of the other traditionalist roles that are complementary to the belief that a man should be the sole provider. I grew up around women that were self-maintaining and independent and it's probably the reason I have these views. I was in awe that women/wives were incapable of driving, pumping gas, mowing the lawn, maintaining a car, dealing with finances etc. I always run across the I want my cake and eat it too syndrome. The I'm pretty, you owe me something because I'm a girl, and by the way, I'll cook for you once a month or give you access to my precious time to keep up my end of the deal.

And think about it, typical time to get married/move in together is years! Why would I pay for everything in-between? Seems fruitless.

haha love this! My marriage is pretty equal. We both work, I go to school. He cooks, I clean. He cooks mainly bc I seem to always catch the oven mitt on fire with our gas stove LOL. We both do lawn work. He pays about 70% of the time, opens doors and does all the chivalrous stuff that I love. I take care of the dog. We each manage our own finances, but his debt is a little out of control haha. I would love to not have a job, and just be a little housewife. But I believe in equality of the sexes, and that would be really unfair to my husband. We each do our own part to manage the household. It's a partnership, running a household, and that's the way it needs to be.

ComicBookGeekGirl

I say, the person who asks, should offer to pay! If I ask my husband out for a date, the night is on me, and vice versa.

victoria4321

I will always offer to pay my half on the first date but if you actually let me pay, there will NEVER be a second date. Please, be a gentleman and pick up the tab. Hold my door open and stand back as I walk through. All these little things make me feel like the lady that I am. I don't mind paying every once in a while once we are dating but the man should definitely pay for the first date.

So why would you even offer? I don't see the point in testing someone so early in the game. Like I said before, if I was a guy I would think she's offering cause she's trying to be nice and doesn't want a second date. I've offered to pay for my half on bad dates actually in the past and that's only cause I never wanna see the guy again but i don't want to be mean and take his money knowing that.