what to do when cals in vs cals out doesn't work? (long)

SteveTries

I don't suppose that there's any chance of getting people to recognise that talking about this woman in the third person as if she were a pet project, and object to be poked and prodded is a teensy bit inappropriate?

Nah. Let's just carry on talking about her, and what's best for her, and what she might be thinking and feeling.... in her absence.

Good plan. Let's do that.

gridder

I don't suppose that there's any chance of getting people to recognise that talking about this woman in the third person as if she were a pet project, and object to be poked and prodded is a teensy bit inappropriate?

Nah. Let's just carry on talking about her, and what's best for her, and what she might be thinking and feeling.... in her absence.

Agreed! Sheesh. If these two aren't married, this would be a one-way ticket to dumpsville for me. How patronizing!

PrncessBre

Bump to read later

pwittek10

If on birth control pills, she is fighting her body.
Get off the pill on on to something else.
Re-balance her system.

barbergirl28

I know you have everything measured out, but is she getting enough dairy. I am one of those people that have a problem with results showing. However, I find if I am lacking on my dairy, it is even worse. When I started adding one yogurt a day - and not really sure if it was because of the calcium or if it is just the yogurt (milk didn't have the same effect for me) the weight would melt off.

LaSutopia

1. Are you 150% sure her TDEE is correct? How do you know this?
2. When was the last time she had her thyroid checked?
3. Is she tracking ALL her food ALL the time?
4. How much is she currently eating per day?
5. What is her exact exercise program?
6. Does she have any other medical issues?

1) TDEE is as reasonable an estimate as we can get. Calculators/estimators, HRM for workouts, BodyFit Media, etc.
2) She had a full blood workup, including thyroid roughly a year ago - everything came back normal
3) In stretches she is. She'll be good for a week, not see any results, get frustrated and throw in the towel for a week. Then the cycle restarts
4) ~1400 cals
5) compound lifts 2-3 days a week, cardio 2-3 days a week
6) no known medical issues

number 3 is the problem. One week or 10 days is not long enough to see results. she is doing some good during that week but then throwing it all away/ undoing it the next. She MUST do what you have her doing for several weeks in a row....no cheating or giving up. She might need to cut out the junk food/treats except for once a week. I know I was doing everything right for the whole week and then eating pizza on sunday, NOT going over on my cals either but fitting it in and I was not losing anything for like 1-2 months...so I cut out the pizza as an experiment and WALAA! I started dropping agian. Now I will only have pizza once maybe twice a month to keep this from happening.

LaSutopia

also you said she wants to lose inches....well I can go MONTHS without losing any inches at all...I can lose weight, work out and all and nothing in inches....I don't get it but I don't fret. They come off way way slower for me. If she is not trying to lose weight, Which I don't think she needs to, then she does not need a deficit in calories, but stick with a good maintenance level so she does not gain and stick to the working out for a lot longer than she has been.

lmc8774

It is hard to give advice not knowing how long the workouts are and how many calories she is burning. My guess is that 1600 calories a day are too many calories for a small woman to lose weight, especially anything noticeable in just 10 days. I am 5’2” and lose weight very slowly at net carbs of 1200 per day. The 2250 TDEE sounds pretty high unless the workouts are very long and strenuous and/or she has a very active job.

roachhaley

I don't suppose that there's any chance of getting people to recognise that talking about this woman in the third person as if she were a pet project, and object to be poked and prodded is a teensy bit inappropriate?

Nah. Let's just carry on talking about her, and what's best for her, and what she might be thinking and feeling.... in her absence.

You are so annoying. You take things way too seriously. Nobody is trying to "poke or prod" at her, just giving advice based on the info he gave us. She's obviously in on this whole getting healthier thing, it isn't like he's sneaking diet pills into her drink. If I were having issues losing weight and my boyfriend posted this, I'd just be happy to get some advice.

Edit: To me, he is just acting as her personal trainer and also happens to be her boyfriend. Honestly, if he had changed the word "girlfriend" with "client" nobody would think twice about what he said.

enyo123

From what I understand, every time you two have tried something new you've only stuck with it for 5-10 days. That could be your problem! Your girlfriend is barely overweight so she's not going to get those 7lb first-week losses bigger people get.

Correction: at 5'4", 140 is NOT overweight according to BMI. Overweight for that height is about 146.

enyo123

Birth control and stress can both affect weight loss. Birth control due to the fact that it manipulates hormones, and stress due to cortisol. High stress means high cortisol, high cortisol means no weight loss.

Yes, her nutritionist told us the same thing... but she can't be the only woman with stress issues. How do other people overcome it?

I do yoga/stretching videos 2-3 times a week. I leave the kids at home with the husband in the evenings and take the dog out on the trails near our house. I contemplate taking up smoking again. (Okay, I'm mostly kidding about that one...)

wackyfunster

Only thing is, there isn't much research that would support it as a long term appetite suppressing solution. Eating excessive amounts of food will of course raise leptin, because you are theorectically going to be eating past the point of satiation. However, the hormone will be processed out of the system relatively quickly, especially in individuals with lesser body fat (and therefore less room to store excess)

I always say to each their own, I just have an issue with how many terms get crossed in the dieting world when they originated in other realms of science.. Well, sort of "other" just meaning here on MFP, you could regard it as a pop-diet, whereas the origins of the terms were for clinical conditions.

Yeah, people who are "overweight" or heavier do not need refeeds (they may be helpful at longer intervals, e.g. every 2 weeks? IDK, but suspect this may be the case), as fat also increases leptin levels. In the single-digits of body fat, refeeds seem to be necessary for continued fat loss. Just wanted to point out that there IS potential benefit for refeeds in some applications.

wackyfunster

You are so annoying. You take things way too seriously. Nobody is trying to "poke or prod" at her, just giving advice based on the info he gave us. She's obviously in on this whole getting healthier thing, it isn't like he's sneaking diet pills into her drink. If I were having issues losing weight and my boyfriend posted this, I'd just be happy to get some advice.

+1
I think some people enjoy being offended and then failing at everything.

selfishshellfish

However well meant, the original post does come across to me as being controlling.

You may think you're helping your girlfriend by not 'leaving her to her own devices' - poptarts and all - but in reality you're not doing either of you, or your relationship, any good.

Getting this far into the business of another competent adult is not healthy or appropriate. My recommendation? Take care of your own stuff and let your girlfriend take care of hers. Otherwise you'll both be unhappy.

wackyfunster

However well meant, the original post does come across to me as being controlling.

You may think you're helping your girlfriend by not 'leaving her to her own devices' - poptarts and all - but in reality you're not doing either of you, or your relationship, any good.

Getting this far into the business of another competent adult is not healthy or appropriate. My recommendation? Take care of your own stuff and let your girlfriend take care of hers. Otherwise you'll both be unhappy.

I love how everyone assumes that she is too insecure and unassertive to stand up for herself. How condescending and sexist. Is it possible that she wants to be fit, but is frustrated at her lack of results, and feels like it is just not possible to do? I know a lot of people who feel that way sometimes, and having a friend or loved one help them past that seems like a good thing. But what do I know, I guess it really means that he is a controlling psychopath who hates her? I guess "getting in the business of another competent adult" means that people in a relationship should not try to help each other out when they need it? Seriously? *scratches head*

divediva2

If he were my SO I would so kick him to the curb for posting something like this. Just my opinion.

roachhaley

However well meant, the original post does come across to me as being controlling.

You may think you're helping your girlfriend by not 'leaving her to her own devices' - poptarts and all - but in reality you're not doing either of you, or your relationship, any good.

Getting this far into the business of another competent adult is not healthy or appropriate. My recommendation? Take care of your own stuff and let your girlfriend take care of hers. Otherwise you'll both be unhappy.

I love how everyone assumes that she is too insecure and unassertive to stand up for herself. How condescending and sexist. Is it possible that she wants to be fit, but is frustrated at her lack of results, and feels like it is just not possible to do? I know a lot of people who feel that way sometimes, and having a friend or loved one help them past that seems like a good thing. But what do I know, I guess it really means that he is a controlling psychopath who hates her? I guess "getting in the business of another competent adult" means that people in a relationship should not try to help each other out when they need it? Seriously? *scratches head*

To me, he is just acting as her personal trainer and also happens to be her boyfriend. Honestly, if he had changed the word "girlfriend" with "client" nobody would think twice about what he said.

selfishshellfish

However well meant, the original post does come across to me as being controlling.

You may think you're helping your girlfriend by not 'leaving her to her own devices' - poptarts and all - but in reality you're not doing either of you, or your relationship, any good.

Getting this far into the business of another competent adult is not healthy or appropriate. My recommendation? Take care of your own stuff and let your girlfriend take care of hers. Otherwise you'll both be unhappy.

I love how everyone assumes that she is too insecure and unassertive to stand up for herself. How condescending and sexist. Is it possible that she wants to be fit, but is frustrated at her lack of results, and feels like it is just not possible to do? I know a lot of people who feel that way sometimes, and having a friend or loved one help them past that seems like a good thing. But what do I know, I guess it really means that he is a controlling psychopath who hates her? I guess "getting in the business of another competent adult" means that people in a relationship should not try to help each other out when they need it? Seriously? *scratches head*

Oh dear. If you read my post I never cast aspersions on the OP's character nor did I allude to the character of his girlfriend. I am in no position to do either. And of course I may have misinterpreted the situation. I confined my comments to my perception of the post, and made my recommendation -as asked - based on that.

The OP doesn't have to pay attention to it, so let's leave it up to him, shall we?

grannygethealthy1111

This may help as you said that she is under a lot of stress:

http://www.jillianmichaels.com/fitness-and-diet-tips/stress-and-your-metabolism

When she gets the stress under control, I am sure she will see the scale move. Keep encouraging her and she will find what works for her.

beachlover718

I think one of the primary things you could do to benefit both her AND your relationship is to electively remove yourself as her trainer, and let her work with the professionals she wants to work with, when she's ready to do so.

I personally HATE it when someone that I want to have love me for who I am takes an active role in monitoring and guiding my diet and fitness. it's not about whether or not they know what they are talking about. It's about causing undue stress that will sabotage your goals because you'll go back and forth between feeling like you are a failure in their eyes, and wondering why they want you to change so badly.

This sounds like the relationship from hell to me and I'm not surprised in the least that she is frustrated, stressed, and ready to give up often.

If she has a nutritionist, why not defer to them, and encourage her to do what feels right and possibly work with a trainer at the gym instead of you? It could relieve a lot of underlying stress, and allow her to take accountability without putting pressure on your relationship.

^^^THIS^^^

ETA: I'm really just agreeing with the last part- not sure how to "quote" only a part what someone else said. I'm sure your intentions are good here and you both want her to be healthy and happy. I do agree with others in that she isnt giving it enough time. Here's what worked for me, take it for what it's worth- I found a buddy, a woman- who weighed about the same as me and needed/wanted to lose about the same amount of weight. We were great resources for each other and a great source of support. Also think she needs to get out of the "being good" mindset- this is life, we are going to make bad choices, it's taken me A LONG TIME but I've learned that it's ok to eat something "bad" and not beat myself up for it. I'd encourage her to join MFP and see if she can find some ladies who are in the same boat, she might not feel so frustrated if she knows she's not alone in her struggles. good luck

enyo123

If he were my SO I would so kick him to the curb for posting something like this. Just my opinion.

Guess my husband should kick me to the curb, then, since he complains about his weight and I do my best to "fix it" for him.... I've even been known to *gasp* ask folks on the internet what I can do before finally realizing that I can't do anything to motivate him to work out; he has to do it himself.

meerkat70

I don't suppose that there's any chance of getting people to recognise that talking about this woman in the third person as if she were a pet project, and object to be poked and prodded is a teensy bit inappropriate?

Nah. Let's just carry on talking about her, and what's best for her, and what she might be thinking and feeling.... in her absence.

You are so annoying. You take things way too seriously. Nobody is trying to "poke or prod" at her, just giving advice based on the info he gave us. She's obviously in on this whole getting healthier thing, it isn't like he's sneaking diet pills into her drink. If I were having issues losing weight and my boyfriend posted this, I'd just be happy to get some advice.

Edit: To me, he is just acting as her personal trainer and also happens to be her boyfriend. Honestly, if he had changed the word "girlfriend" with "client" nobody would think twice about what he said.

Wow. A 12 year old finds me annoying.... How will I cope?

Let me go and reflect on her advice, based on her vast experience of personal relationships.... Yeah. That's what I'll do.

wackyfunster

*deleted*

tigersword

And to add, 'refeeds' actually accomplish nothing from a biological standpoint. They are purely for psychological reasons.

It will actually boost leptin levels substantially, which is probably of less value to women (whose leptin levels are already several times higher than men's), but can make a big difference for men who have been on a caloric/carb deficit for a while, and/or are at very low body fat. OTOH a carb-refeed coupled with high fat intake can erase any progress very quickly. I think there is definitely value there, in addition to the psychological aspect. Timing (should be after weight training) and macro content (should be low-fat) are important though.

Just my 2c.

Actually, the leptin reset theory has been debunked. The effect is purely psychological. UponThisRock talked about it a while back, with some study links.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/531579--spike-day-nonsense

wackyfunster

And to add, 'refeeds' actually accomplish nothing from a biological standpoint. They are purely for psychological reasons.

It will actually boost leptin levels substantially, which is probably of less value to women (whose leptin levels are already several times higher than men's), but can make a big difference for men who have been on a caloric/carb deficit for a while, and/or are at very low body fat. OTOH a carb-refeed coupled with high fat intake can erase any progress very quickly. I think there is definitely value there, in addition to the psychological aspect. Timing (should be after weight training) and macro content (should be low-fat) are important though.

Just my 2c.

Actually, the leptin reset theory has been debunked. The effect is purely psychological. UponThisRock talked about it a while back, with some study links.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/531579--spike-day-nonsense

Thanks for that, it is always nice to see people presenting well-researched information.
If Leptin levels remain elevator for ~24 hours, then if you refeed every other day, and carry a substantial deficit on non-refeed days, you should be able to maintain higher leptin levels while on a sustained weekly caloric deficit. Am I wrong?

tigersword

And to add, 'refeeds' actually accomplish nothing from a biological standpoint. They are purely for psychological reasons.

It will actually boost leptin levels substantially, which is probably of less value to women (whose leptin levels are already several times higher than men's), but can make a big difference for men who have been on a caloric/carb deficit for a while, and/or are at very low body fat. OTOH a carb-refeed coupled with high fat intake can erase any progress very quickly. I think there is definitely value there, in addition to the psychological aspect. Timing (should be after weight training) and macro content (should be low-fat) are important though.

Just my 2c.

Actually, the leptin reset theory has been debunked. The effect is purely psychological. UponThisRock talked about it a while back, with some study links.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/531579--spike-day-nonsense

Thanks for that, it is always nice to see people presenting well-researched information.
If Leptin levels remain elevator for ~24 hours, then if you refeed every other day, and carry a substantial deficit on non-refeed days, you should be able to maintain higher leptin levels while on a sustained weekly caloric deficit. Am I wrong?

That's more intermittent fasting, than "refeeding."

MsFargo

I am one of those people that does better with LESS carbs and MORE protein. I also keep my cortisol in check with a saliva test through a company such as ZRT labs. Once I know my cortisol levels, it helps me to take action to reduce my stress levels.