Looking for Feminist Friends

crisanderson27

"Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions.. for safety on the streets... for child care, for social welfare...for rape crisis centers, women's refuges, reforms in the law." (If someone says) 'Oh, I'm not a feminist,' (I ask) 'Why? What's your problem?'" - Dale Spender, author of For the Record: The Making & Meaning of Feminist Knowledge, 1985

Is this quite accurate, though?

I think this quote adequately describes what feminism has done to American society and the opinion of women who stay at home in this day and age:

"Of course, much of the world would agree that being a housekeeper is acceptable as long as you are not caring for your own home; treating men with attentive devotion would also be right as long as the man is the boss in the office and not your husband; caring for children would even be deemed heroic service for which presidential awards could be given as long as the children are someone else's and not your own. " Mrs. Dorothy Patterson

Simone de Beauvoir, a French Feminist said:

"No woman should be authorized to stay at home and raise her children. Society should be totally different. Women should not have the choice, precisely because if there is such a choice, too many women will make that one.

And American critic and memoirist Vivian Gornick said:

Being a housewife is an illegitimate profession... The choice to serve and be protected and plan towards being a family-maker is a choice that shouldn't be. The heart of radical feminism is to change that."

It seems to me the war feminists have waged is on family. It may have had some use when it first began but what good is it doing now? Statistically, our kids are running amok because there is never anyone home-everyone is out at work. Gang membership is rising, crime is getting worse, drop out rates are rising-and when I show up at my kids' school I hardly ever see other parents there-they are all at work.

I'm not bashing anyone who legitimately has to work to support their family, I know those circumstances happen-but I personally believe the rise in teenage trouble-and the higher prison population, has a direct correlation to the fact that nobody is at home raising their children...back in the day, our mothers were home, they were there for us-they didn't have to schedule us in between meetings and other commitments-family was sacred. Nowadays the government feels the need to pass more and more laws that should have been left to the parent-but too many parents aren't doing their jobs properly so the government feels it has to step in and parent our children as well. As one of the few SAHMs in my neighborhood it saddens me how many children/teens come to me with their problems because their parents are constantly unavailable. Often, people would rather have a good income, large house, fancy cars and electronic gadgets-and they sacrifice time with family to work long hours and attain those things. I really feel that if more families decided to sacrifice keeping up with the Joneses, make a few budget cuts, and make family a priority again, things would change. It would take time, but it would be a good thing.

I'm just going to quote the very first post I made on this thread, as I think it got lost in all the male bashing and jokes. Are you feminist ladies proud to read the above quotes from a couple of famous feminists? Is this what you seek to promote?

How can you back a "movement" that can't even uniformly define what they stand for?

Much less expect others to not only comprehend the things that whatever sector of whatever freaking 'wave' they're a part of stands for, but to actually sympathize. I'm sorry...I raise three kids, and work full time. I don't have time for all that, and if I did have extra time, I'd likely be spending it with those kids.

I think Chris is fighting fire with fire.

If the jokes were as innocuous as Ray's comment about washing dishes...I, as a Christian, wouldn't see a problem with it <shrug>

I could give a rip about that stupid joke. What came later was just for the purpose of being insulting and rude for no purpose at all, except for to keep me busy when I can't sleep anyway. Either way, I am out. But don't you all quit building those straw men and grinding those axes.

i've just spent a while reading through this thread from the beginning. all i can say is 'wow'.
i always thought i had a bit of a feminist streak in me, but now i'm going to deny it!
i did not, at any point in time, think that to be a feminist you had to have your humour gland removed.
there was nothing in here (IMHO) that could be deemed offensive, derogatory or insulting. why can't you be feminist and have a laugh too? or is it only ok to laugh at the stereotypical jokes about men?

i am now defining myself as an 'equal rights' person.

again, just wow.

wow.

Wow, you saw NOTHING offensive? I don't think anyone was laughing because it generally wasn't funny.

I actually recall someone saying that instead of fighting for contraception, cis women should "close their legs". You don't think that shaming one group people for having sex for pleasure isn't just a little bit insulting?

I wish I found sandwich jokes funny though, for real. I'd never stop laughing. Stop acting like we're the ones with no sense of humour, because quite frankly, you'd be thrown out of every comedy club on the planet.

I love (and by love, I mean I think it's absolutely pathetic) the level of selective reading your 'movement' in general has developed.

First, I said the CONTROL is yours. I don't care HOW BADLY I want to get a woman pregnant, if she doesn't want me to...guess what, unless I break the law, it isn't happening. I said, if you do NOT want to chance getting pregnant...don't have sex!! And here's the topper...and the part that you flat freaking ignored. I also said that if I do NOT want to chance a woman getting pregnant...I WON'T HAVE SEX. YOU get to keep your legs closed, I get to keep it in my pants. But the fact remains that unless you're willing...no matter how much I want it...it's not happening.

Pretty basic...and what you pulled out of that entire post just proves my point.

Narrow minded, double standards.

Edit ~ Spelling

I also want to add, that there are a few shining examples of reasoned, intelligent feminists in this thread, and my above post was NOT intended to include them in that 'generalization'.

Rhea30

This is a long thread and I am just jumping in but I wanted to ask for some clarification. Is it anti-feminist to be a woman and care for your family or is it anti-feminist to take away any options from a woman?

I guess it depends on the individual. I don't think its anti-feminist for a woman to take care of her family, I only think it becomes one when the option is taken away. Families need to be taken care of but men could also be caregivers to their family as well, I don't think it should fall solely on the woman.

I just don't think gender should dictate what we do and most gender roles is cultural and nothing to do with how we are made biologically. Pretty much for me its making sure those options aren't taken away and not being forced to do something because I'm a woman. Also women still aren't getting equal pay, we're also laid off more then men are when a crisis hit.

AlyRoseNYC

I am a non-feminist Christian Conservative who srongly believes in gender roles.

I also NEVER share any of my personal beliefs on my news feed. You can add me for support! I love cheering on my MFP friends

yay finally someone who uses the right term! :flowerforyou:

You mean "non-feminist"? What is the incorrect term? Just curious

My point being (sorry for not saying earlier) that you can "not be something" without being "against it". Anti-feminist implies that you will campaign for all women to belong in a certain mold without any rights. Non-feminist implies you are not going to campaign for women to have a choice. At least it does for me. Was just glad that at last someone mentioned the "in between" option. No idea what the exact right academical terminology is though.

That's what I figured. I think a lot of people say they are "anti feminist" when they really just mean to say that they are indifferent to it.

iceqieen

I never realized having a mate to compliment me and share the load would be such a great joy. Once I stopped fighting my man and started working with him, things became much easier and more pleasant.

Feminists can have that too. I would like to believe I do. Just because some feminists are *****es, doesnt mean all are :flowerforyou:

iceqieen

I also want to add, that there are a few shining examples of reasoned, intelligent feminists in this thread, and my above post was NOT intended to include them in that 'generalization'.

good of you to say, was starting to believe you were enjoying being a troll a bit too much and applying selective reading quite a bit yourself.

ishallnotwant

I never realized having a mate to compliment me and share the load would be such a great joy. Once I stopped fighting my man and started working with him, things became much easier and more pleasant.

Feminists can have that too. I would like to believe I do. Just because some feminists are *****es, doesnt mean all are :flowerforyou:

I love this.

ishallnotwant

"Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions.. for safety on the streets... for child care, for social welfare...for rape crisis centers, women's refuges, reforms in the law." (If someone says) 'Oh, I'm not a feminist,' (I ask) 'Why? What's your problem?'" - Dale Spender, author of For the Record: The Making & Meaning of Feminist Knowledge, 1985

Is this quite accurate, though?

I think this quote adequately describes what feminism has done to American society and the opinion of women who stay at home in this day and age:

"Of course, much of the world would agree that being a housekeeper is acceptable as long as you are not caring for your own home; treating men with attentive devotion would also be right as long as the man is the boss in the office and not your husband; caring for children would even be deemed heroic service for which presidential awards could be given as long as the children are someone else's and not your own. " Mrs. Dorothy Patterson

Simone de Beauvoir, a French Feminist said:

"No woman should be authorized to stay at home and raise her children. Society should be totally different. Women should not have the choice, precisely because if there is such a choice, too many women will make that one.

And American critic and memoirist Vivian Gornick said:

Being a housewife is an illegitimate profession... The choice to serve and be protected and plan towards being a family-maker is a choice that shouldn't be. The heart of radical feminism is to change that."

It seems to me the war feminists have waged is on family. It may have had some use when it first began but what good is it doing now? Statistically, our kids are running amok because there is never anyone home-everyone is out at work. Gang membership is rising, crime is getting worse, drop out rates are rising-and when I show up at my kids' school I hardly ever see other parents there-they are all at work.

I'm not bashing anyone who legitimately has to work to support their family, I know those circumstances happen-but I personally believe the rise in teenage trouble-and the higher prison population, has a direct correlation to the fact that nobody is at home raising their children...back in the day, our mothers were home, they were there for us-they didn't have to schedule us in between meetings and other commitments-family was sacred. Nowadays the government feels the need to pass more and more laws that should have been left to the parent-but too many parents aren't doing their jobs properly so the government feels it has to step in and parent our children as well. As one of the few SAHMs in my neighborhood it saddens me how many children/teens come to me with their problems because their parents are constantly unavailable. Often, people would rather have a good income, large house, fancy cars and electronic gadgets-and they sacrifice time with family to work long hours and attain those things. I really feel that if more families decided to sacrifice keeping up with the Joneses, make a few budget cuts, and make family a priority again, things would change. It would take time, but it would be a good thing.

I'm just going to quote the very first post I made on this thread, as I think it got lost in all the male bashing and jokes. Are you feminist ladies proud to read the above quotes from a couple of famous feminists? Is this what you seek to promote?

How can you back a "movement" that can't even uniformly define what they stand for?

Much less expect others to not only comprehend the things that whatever sector of whatever freaking 'wave' they're a part of stands for, but to actually sympathize. I'm sorry...I raise three kids, and work full time. I don't have time for all that, and if I did have extra time, I'd likely be spending it with those kids.

I think Chris is fighting fire with fire.

If the jokes were as innocuous as Ray's comment about washing dishes...I, as a Christian, wouldn't see a problem with it <shrug>

I could give a rip about that stupid joke. What came later was just for the purpose of being insulting and rude for no purpose at all, except for to keep me busy when I can't sleep anyway. Either way, I am out. But don't you all quit building those straw men and grinding those axes.

i've just spent a while reading through this thread from the beginning. all i can say is 'wow'.
i always thought i had a bit of a feminist streak in me, but now i'm going to deny it!
i did not, at any point in time, think that to be a feminist you had to have your humour gland removed.
there was nothing in here (IMHO) that could be deemed offensive, derogatory or insulting. why can't you be feminist and have a laugh too? or is it only ok to laugh at the stereotypical jokes about men?

i am now defining myself as an 'equal rights' person.

again, just wow.

wow.

Wow, you saw NOTHING offensive? I don't think anyone was laughing because it generally wasn't funny.

I actually recall someone saying that instead of fighting for contraception, cis women should "close their legs". You don't think that shaming one group people for having sex for pleasure isn't just a little bit insulting?

I wish I found sandwich jokes funny though, for real. I'd never stop laughing. Stop acting like we're the ones with no sense of humour, because quite frankly, you'd be thrown out of every comedy club on the planet.

I love (and by love, I mean I think it's absolutely pathetic) the level of selective reading your 'movement' in general has developed.

First, I said the CONTROL is yours. I don't care HOW BADLY I want to get a woman pregnant, if she doesn't want me to...guess what, unless I break the law, it isn't happening. I said, if you do NOT want to chance getting pregnant...don't have sex!! And here's the topper...and the part that you flat freaking ignored. I also said that if I do NOT want to chance a woman getting pregnant...I WON'T HAVE SEX. YOU get to keep your legs closed, I get to keep it in my pants. But the fact remains that unless you're willing...no matter how much I want it...it's not happening.

Pretty basic...and what you pulled out of that entire post just proves my point.

Narrow minded, double standards.

Edit ~ Spelling

I also want to add, that there are a few shining examples of reasoned, intelligent feminists in this thread, and my above post was NOT intended to include them in that 'generalization'.

Agreed.

cannonsky

"Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions.. for safety on the streets... for child care, for social welfare...for rape crisis centers, women's refuges, reforms in the law." (If someone says) 'Oh, I'm not a feminist,' (I ask) 'Why? What's your problem?'" - Dale Spender, author of For the Record: The Making & Meaning of Feminist Knowledge, 1985

Is this quite accurate, though?

I think this quote adequately describes what feminism has done to American society and the opinion of women who stay at home in this day and age:

"Of course, much of the world would agree that being a housekeeper is acceptable as long as you are not caring for your own home; treating men with attentive devotion would also be right as long as the man is the boss in the office and not your husband; caring for children would even be deemed heroic service for which presidential awards could be given as long as the children are someone else's and not your own. " Mrs. Dorothy Patterson

Simone de Beauvoir, a French Feminist said:

"No woman should be authorized to stay at home and raise her children. Society should be totally different. Women should not have the choice, precisely because if there is such a choice, too many women will make that one.

And American critic and memoirist Vivian Gornick said:

Being a housewife is an illegitimate profession... The choice to serve and be protected and plan towards being a family-maker is a choice that shouldn't be. The heart of radical feminism is to change that."

It seems to me the war feminists have waged is on family. It may have had some use when it first began but what good is it doing now? Statistically, our kids are running amok because there is never anyone home-everyone is out at work. Gang membership is rising, crime is getting worse, drop out rates are rising-and when I show up at my kids' school I hardly ever see other parents there-they are all at work.

I'm not bashing anyone who legitimately has to work to support their family, I know those circumstances happen-but I personally believe the rise in teenage trouble-and the higher prison population, has a direct correlation to the fact that nobody is at home raising their children...back in the day, our mothers were home, they were there for us-they didn't have to schedule us in between meetings and other commitments-family was sacred. Nowadays the government feels the need to pass more and more laws that should have been left to the parent-but too many parents aren't doing their jobs properly so the government feels it has to step in and parent our children as well. As one of the few SAHMs in my neighborhood it saddens me how many children/teens come to me with their problems because their parents are constantly unavailable. Often, people would rather have a good income, large house, fancy cars and electronic gadgets-and they sacrifice time with family to work long hours and attain those things. I really feel that if more families decided to sacrifice keeping up with the Joneses, make a few budget cuts, and make family a priority again, things would change. It would take time, but it would be a good thing.

I'm just going to quote the very first post I made on this thread, as I think it got lost in all the male bashing and jokes. Are you feminist ladies proud to read the above quotes from a couple of famous feminists? Is this what you seek to promote?

How can you back a "movement" that can't even uniformly define what they stand for?

Much less expect others to not only comprehend the things that whatever sector of whatever freaking 'wave' they're a part of stands for, but to actually sympathize. I'm sorry...I raise three kids, and work full time. I don't have time for all that, and if I did have extra time, I'd likely be spending it with those kids.

I think Chris is fighting fire with fire.

If the jokes were as innocuous as Ray's comment about washing dishes...I, as a Christian, wouldn't see a problem with it <shrug>

I could give a rip about that stupid joke. What came later was just for the purpose of being insulting and rude for no purpose at all, except for to keep me busy when I can't sleep anyway. Either way, I am out. But don't you all quit building those straw men and grinding those axes.

i've just spent a while reading through this thread from the beginning. all i can say is 'wow'.
i always thought i had a bit of a feminist streak in me, but now i'm going to deny it!
i did not, at any point in time, think that to be a feminist you had to have your humour gland removed.
there was nothing in here (IMHO) that could be deemed offensive, derogatory or insulting. why can't you be feminist and have a laugh too? or is it only ok to laugh at the stereotypical jokes about men?

i am now defining myself as an 'equal rights' person.

again, just wow.

wow.

Wow, you saw NOTHING offensive? I don't think anyone was laughing because it generally wasn't funny.

I actually recall someone saying that instead of fighting for contraception, cis women should "close their legs". You don't think that shaming one group people for having sex for pleasure isn't just a little bit insulting?

I wish I found sandwich jokes funny though, for real. I'd never stop laughing. Stop acting like we're the ones with no sense of humour, because quite frankly, you'd be thrown out of every comedy club on the planet.

I love (and by love, I mean I think it's absolutely pathetic) the level of selective reading your 'movement' in general has developed.

First, I said the CONTROL is yours. I don't care HOW BADLY I want to get a woman pregnant, if she doesn't want me to...guess what, unless I break the law, it isn't happening. I said, if you do NOT want to chance getting pregnant...don't have sex!! And here's the topper...and the part that you flat freaking ignored. I also said that if I do NOT want to chance a woman getting pregnant...I WON'T HAVE SEX. YOU get to keep your legs closed, I get to keep it in my pants. But the fact remains that unless you're willing...no matter how much I want it...it's not happening.

Pretty basic...and what you pulled out of that entire post just proves my point.

Narrow minded, double standards.

Edit ~ Spelling

Not that I agree with everything the person you are arguing with has said... but it's also a little narrow minded and absurd to make "closing your legs" the only option. Sex is going to happen... you might as well accept it... abstinence education doesn't work the way the proponents of it thought it would.... the best solution is to education EVERYONE involved and allow them access to the things that will protect them... I.E.- condoms and birth control.

BuckeyeLife

Holy **** this thread is just uber stupid. People care way too much about defining, go ****ing live life and stop this nonsense. I'm going to eat now, have a good day.

cannonsky

Holy **** this thread is just uber stupid. People care way too much about defining, go ****ing live life and stop this nonsense. I'm going to eat now, have a good day.

word

Rhea30

First, I said the CONTROL is yours. I don't care HOW BADLY I want to get a woman pregnant, if she doesn't want me to...guess what, unless I break the law, it isn't happening. I said, if you do NOT want to chance getting pregnant...don't have sex!! And here's the topper...and the part that you flat freaking ignored. I also said that if I do NOT want to chance a woman getting pregnant...I WON'T HAVE SEX. YOU get to keep your legs closed, I get to keep it in my pants. But the fact remains that unless you're willing...no matter how much I want it...it's not happening.

Sorry but it goes both ways and takes two people to make a baby. Not just a woman.

ishallnotwant

First, I said the CONTROL is yours. I don't care HOW BADLY I want to get a woman pregnant, if she doesn't want me to...guess what, unless I break the law, it isn't happening. I said, if you do NOT want to chance getting pregnant...don't have sex!! And here's the topper...and the part that you flat freaking ignored. I also said that if I do NOT want to chance a woman getting pregnant...I WON'T HAVE SEX. YOU get to keep your legs closed, I get to keep it in my pants. But the fact remains that unless you're willing...no matter how much I want it...it's not happening.

Sorry but it goes both ways and takes two people to make a baby. Not just a woman.

Perhaps you should reread his post. That was his point exactly.

impyimpyaj

Yeah lets burn our bras and end women's suffrage now!

So... you don't think women should vote? Because that's what "suffrage" means. The right to vote, as earned through democratic process.

abberbabber

First, I said the CONTROL is yours. I don't care HOW BADLY I want to get a woman pregnant, if she doesn't want me to...guess what, unless I break the law, it isn't happening. I said, if you do NOT want to chance getting pregnant...don't have sex!! And here's the topper...and the part that you flat freaking ignored. I also said that if I do NOT want to chance a woman getting pregnant...I WON'T HAVE SEX. YOU get to keep your legs closed, I get to keep it in my pants. But the fact remains that unless you're willing...no matter how much I want it...it's not happening.

Sorry but it goes both ways and takes two people to make a baby. Not just a woman.

Isn't...that...what he said? :huh:

crisanderson27

Not that I agree with everything the person you are arguing with has said... but it's also a little narrow minded and absurd to make "closing your legs" the only option. Sex is going to happen... you might as well accept it... abstinence education doesn't work the way the proponents of it thought it would.... the best solution is to education EVERYONE involved and allow them access to the things that will protect them... I.E.- condoms and birth control.

I agree with you...but I was making a point hun...not saying it should be the only way. That point is that, because you are biologically different, you naturally will have different responsibilities, AND different different perogatives. To ignore that in some quest for 'equality' (who gets to decide what's 'equal'?) is just ridiculous. Women can sue for not getting maternity leave. I can't sue for not getting paternity leave. Women are some stupidly large (I would quote my last number, but it may be inaccurate now) percentage more likely to get custody of their children. As a man, I had to fight bloody tooth and nail, and still nearly lost them due to the sexism of the MALE judge (what's funny, is the second go round...the FEMALE judge basically told my son's mother she was lucky not to be thrown out of court, once she got all the information...YAY WOMEN!!).

Are you seeing what I mean? Gender, and the consequences of that gender...DO impact many, many things. To deny it is blind ignorance. To try to work with it...is reasonable.

And I can tell you this...no matter how much I strut around, beating my chest, being manly...it's the women in my life who have control...and I'm more than happy with that. When they aren't happy...I'm FRANTIC to do whatever I can to make that go away.

Bleh.

Rhea30

Personally, I don't have a feminist bone in my body. I'm a happy, healthy, submissive Christian wife and mother of 9 children.

This is why I don't like religion, its all about control others. There is nothing wrong with helping/caring for your family, that part of life but no one should feel they have to submit to someone else. There's no equality in submission.

There is plenty of equality in submission. Submission can be a beautiful thing. I choose to submit to and respect my husband and he treats me like a queen. Submission has been given a bad name, but it doesn't have to be bad. To clarify my personal beliefs: as for religion, I am a Christian. My Lord and Savior came here as a servant-if my God can serve others, how much more should I be willing and able to? He could have come down powerful, as a King, taken what was rightfully his, etc-but instead he displayed a beautiful, loving, servant's heart. If he was not too good to serve others than I definitely am not. I know that other people don't necessarily have the same views, but those are partially my views on my personal reason for submission. I will admit that I am lucky, my husband is wonderful to me-I know that one of the reasons submission has been given a bad rap is because people take advantage of it and make it look bad. I love serving my family, it is my job and I take pleasure in it. While it is something I enjoy, it may not be for everyone.

I was raised in a family of feminists, always told I "didn't need a man." There were hardly any men in our family, because the women treated the men poorly and chased most of them off. I used to bash men, and insist I could do everything on my own. I ended up being a single mother, raising 5 children alone and thinking men were the bane of my existence. When I realized my own error, and changed my attitude towards males in general, I ended up falling in love with and marrying a wonderful man. I'm so glad I treat him well and don't buy into the male bashing mentality any longer. Some of my women family members give me h*ll for it, but they are the ones alone and angry because they chased their men away-so eager to always prove that they "don't need a man". I'm happily married and living a life I never dreamed would be so good-I never realized having a mate to compliment me and share the load would be such a great joy. Once I stopped fighting my man and started working with him, things became much easier and more pleasant.

Submission has a bad name because of what it is, its submission. Why can't you and your husband just respect and love each other? Why do you have to submit to someone who should be your equal? You don't have to male bash in order to be equal and respectful but you shouldn't have to submit, that's bashing yourself. It looks like you went from extreme to another.

Marla64

Yeah lets burn our bras and end women's suffrage now!

So... you don't think women should vote? Because that's what "suffrage" means. The right to vote, as earned through democratic process.

Ishallnotwant-- beautiful post before-- bravo!

As for women voting-- you know, I'd willingly give up my right to vote to stop some of the stupidity I see in women voting. I had a neighbor once-- true story-- who decided to vote for Al Gore after seeing him kiss his wife Tipper at the convention.

"Any man who can kiss his wife like that has my vote."

Um-- well, have you see George Bush in the bedroom? Maybe he'd REALLY get your vote. How ridiculously stupid.

No, not saying all women are like this-- but, one is too many. I'd much rather have a nation of men voting for what's best for the nation, than women voting what's best for women.

Marla64

Personally, I don't have a feminist bone in my body. I'm a happy, healthy, submissive Christian wife and mother of 9 children.

This is why I don't like religion, its all about control others. There is nothing wrong with helping/caring for your family, that part of life but no one should feel they have to submit to someone else. There's no equality in submission.

There is plenty of equality in submission. Submission can be a beautiful thing. I choose to submit to and respect my husband and he treats me like a queen. Submission has been given a bad name, but it doesn't have to be bad. To clarify my personal beliefs: as for religion, I am a Christian. My Lord and Savior came here as a servant-if my God can serve others, how much more should I be willing and able to? He could have come down powerful, as a King, taken what was rightfully his, etc-but instead he displayed a beautiful, loving, servant's heart. If he was not too good to serve others than I definitely am not. I know that other people don't necessarily have the same views, but those are partially my views on my personal reason for submission. I will admit that I am lucky, my husband is wonderful to me-I know that one of the reasons submission has been given a bad rap is because people take advantage of it and make it look bad. I love serving my family, it is my job and I take pleasure in it. While it is something I enjoy, it may not be for everyone.

I was raised in a family of feminists, always told I "didn't need a man." There were hardly any men in our family, because the women treated the men poorly and chased most of them off. I used to bash men, and insist I could do everything on my own. I ended up being a single mother, raising 5 children alone and thinking men were the bane of my existence. When I realized my own error, and changed my attitude towards males in general, I ended up falling in love with and marrying a wonderful man. I'm so glad I treat him well and don't buy into the male bashing mentality any longer. Some of my women family members give me h*ll for it, but they are the ones alone and angry because they chased their men away-so eager to always prove that they "don't need a man". I'm happily married and living a life I never dreamed would be so good-I never realized having a mate to compliment me and share the load would be such a great joy. Once I stopped fighting my man and started working with him, things became much easier and more pleasant.

Submission has a bad name because of what it is, its submission. Why can't you and your husband just respect and love each other? Why do you have to submit to someone who should be your equal? You don't have to male bash in order to be equal and respectful but you shouldn't have to submit, that's bashing yourself. It looks like you went from extreme to another.

because our Bible calls us to. There can't be two captains of a vessel. Somebody has to have the final say what course the ship goes. God tells me that's him.

mamamudbug

"Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions.. for safety on the streets... for child care, for social welfare...for rape crisis centers, women's refuges, reforms in the law." (If someone says) 'Oh, I'm not a feminist,' (I ask) 'Why? What's your problem?'" - Dale Spender, author of For the Record: The Making & Meaning of Feminist Knowledge, 1985

Is this quite accurate, though?

I think this quote adequately describes what feminism has done to American society and the opinion of women who stay at home in this day and age:

"Of course, much of the world would agree that being a housekeeper is acceptable as long as you are not caring for your own home; treating men with attentive devotion would also be right as long as the man is the boss in the office and not your husband; caring for children would even be deemed heroic service for which presidential awards could be given as long as the children are someone else's and not your own. " Mrs. Dorothy Patterson

Simone de Beauvoir, a French Feminist said:

"No woman should be authorized to stay at home and raise her children. Society should be totally different. Women should not have the choice, precisely because if there is such a choice, too many women will make that one.

And American critic and memoirist Vivian Gornick said:

Being a housewife is an illegitimate profession... The choice to serve and be protected and plan towards being a family-maker is a choice that shouldn't be. The heart of radical feminism is to change that."

It seems to me the war feminists have waged is on family. It may have had some use when it first began but what good is it doing now? Statistically, our kids are running amok because there is never anyone home-everyone is out at work. Gang membership is rising, crime is getting worse, drop out rates are rising-and when I show up at my kids' school I hardly ever see other parents there-they are all at work.

I'm not bashing anyone who legitimately has to work to support their family, I know those circumstances happen-but I personally believe the rise in teenage trouble-and the higher prison population, has a direct correlation to the fact that nobody is at home raising their children...back in the day, our mothers were home, they were there for us-they didn't have to schedule us in between meetings and other commitments-family was sacred. Nowadays the government feels the need to pass more and more laws that should have been left to the parent-but too many parents aren't doing their jobs properly so the government feels it has to step in and parent our children as well. As one of the few SAHMs in my neighborhood it saddens me how many children/teens come to me with their problems because their parents are constantly unavailable. Often, people would rather have a good income, large house, fancy cars and electronic gadgets-and they sacrifice time with family to work long hours and attain those things. I really feel that if more families decided to sacrifice keeping up with the Joneses, make a few budget cuts, and make family a priority again, things would change. It would take time, but it would be a good thing.

I'm just going to quote the very first post I made on this thread, as I think it got lost in all the male bashing and jokes. Are you feminist ladies proud to read the above quotes from a couple of famous feminists? Is this what you seek to promote?

How can you back a "movement" that can't even uniformly define what they stand for?

Much less expect others to not only comprehend the things that whatever sector of whatever freaking 'wave' they're a part of stands for, but to actually sympathize. I'm sorry...I raise three kids, and work full time. I don't have time for all that, and if I did have extra time, I'd likely be spending it with those kids.

I think Chris is fighting fire with fire.

If the jokes were as innocuous as Ray's comment about washing dishes...I, as a Christian, wouldn't see a problem with it <shrug>

I could give a rip about that stupid joke. What came later was just for the purpose of being insulting and rude for no purpose at all, except for to keep me busy when I can't sleep anyway. Either way, I am out. But don't you all quit building those straw men and grinding those axes.

i've just spent a while reading through this thread from the beginning. all i can say is 'wow'.
i always thought i had a bit of a feminist streak in me, but now i'm going to deny it!
i did not, at any point in time, think that to be a feminist you had to have your humour gland removed.
there was nothing in here (IMHO) that could be deemed offensive, derogatory or insulting. why can't you be feminist and have a laugh too? or is it only ok to laugh at the stereotypical jokes about men?

i am now defining myself as an 'equal rights' person.

again, just wow.

wow.

Wow, you saw NOTHING offensive? I don't think anyone was laughing because it generally wasn't funny.

I actually recall someone saying that instead of fighting for contraception, cis women should "close their legs". You don't think that shaming one group people for having sex for pleasure isn't just a little bit insulting?

I wish I found sandwich jokes funny though, for real. I'd never stop laughing. Stop acting like we're the ones with no sense of humour, because quite frankly, you'd be thrown out of every comedy club on the planet.

I love (and by love, I mean I think it's absolutely pathetic) the level of selective reading your 'movement' in general has developed.

First, I said the CONTROL is yours. I don't care HOW BADLY I want to get a woman pregnant, if she doesn't want me to...guess what, unless I break the law, it isn't happening. I said, if you do NOT want to chance getting pregnant...don't have sex!! And here's the topper...and the part that you flat freaking ignored. I also said that if I do NOT want to chance a woman getting pregnant...I WON'T HAVE SEX. YOU get to keep your legs closed, I get to keep it in my pants. But the fact remains that unless you're willing...no matter how much I want it...it's not happening.

Pretty basic...and what you pulled out of that entire post just proves my point.

Narrow minded, double standards.

Edit ~ Spelling

Not that I agree with everything the person you are arguing with has said... but it's also a little narrow minded and absurd to make "closing your legs" the only option. Sex is going to happen... you might as well accept it... abstinence education doesn't work the way the proponents of it thought it would.... the best solution is to education EVERYONE involved and allow them access to the things that will protect them... I.E.- condoms and birth control.

Yes, sex is going to happen, but abstinence is still the only 100% effective birth control. Everyone in the US has acces to condoms. Not only are they sold in Walmarts and truck stops everywhere but if you can't afford them, they are given out at health units countrywide.

crisanderson27

Personally, I don't have a feminist bone in my body. I'm a happy, healthy, submissive Christian wife and mother of 9 children.

This is why I don't like religion, its all about control others. There is nothing wrong with helping/caring for your family, that part of life but no one should feel they have to submit to someone else. There's no equality in submission.

There is plenty of equality in submission. Submission can be a beautiful thing. I choose to submit to and respect my husband and he treats me like a queen. Submission has been given a bad name, but it doesn't have to be bad. To clarify my personal beliefs: as for religion, I am a Christian. My Lord and Savior came here as a servant-if my God can serve others, how much more should I be willing and able to? He could have come down powerful, as a King, taken what was rightfully his, etc-but instead he displayed a beautiful, loving, servant's heart. If he was not too good to serve others than I definitely am not. I know that other people don't necessarily have the same views, but those are partially my views on my personal reason for submission. I will admit that I am lucky, my husband is wonderful to me-I know that one of the reasons submission has been given a bad rap is because people take advantage of it and make it look bad. I love serving my family, it is my job and I take pleasure in it. While it is something I enjoy, it may not be for everyone.

I was raised in a family of feminists, always told I "didn't need a man." There were hardly any men in our family, because the women treated the men poorly and chased most of them off. I used to bash men, and insist I could do everything on my own. I ended up being a single mother, raising 5 children alone and thinking men were the bane of my existence. When I realized my own error, and changed my attitude towards males in general, I ended up falling in love with and marrying a wonderful man. I'm so glad I treat him well and don't buy into the male bashing mentality any longer. Some of my women family members give me h*ll for it, but they are the ones alone and angry because they chased their men away-so eager to always prove that they "don't need a man". I'm happily married and living a life I never dreamed would be so good-I never realized having a mate to compliment me and share the load would be such a great joy. Once I stopped fighting my man and started working with him, things became much easier and more pleasant.

Submission has a bad name because of what it is, its submission. Why can't you and your husband just respect and love each other? Why do you have to submit to someone who should be your equal? You don't have to male bash in order to be equal and respectful but you shouldn't have to submit, that's bashing yourself. It looks like you went from extreme to another.

because our Bible calls us to. There can't be two captains of a vessel. Somebody has to have the final say what course the ship goes. God tells me that's him.

The problem with this, is that you're going to get all these people coming in and saying that Christianity is a patriarchal contrivance designed to hold women down and uphold men's stranglehold on the neck of women across the world.

I'm the leader of my family, invariably...but I didn't do a DAMN thing that my wife (when I had one), wasn't happy about. That my friends, would be sexual and emotional suicide, no thanks. Aside from the fact that if my actions DID in fact upset her...I'd be pretty upset too.