Strength training: taking a break without losing muscles?
Replies
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ReportedI don't understand why you are so defensive.
I am a girl, have been lifting heavy ( nothing bellow 25 pounds dumbbells) for almost a year and if I gained 2-3 pounds of muscles I would be happy.
They gave you sound advice.
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Now for the initial question, I'd say you need to continue some sort of strength training a few days a week just to maintain. I don't think muscle tone fades away too quickly, but I have no idea how long it takes.
Good luck
If you have no idea how long it takes, why bother speculating?
Is saying too quickly speculating to you? Back off! I'm simply encouraging the OP to continue with some strength training. Why are people in this thread so rude, and negative.? Learn how to be positive, and support people or don't post!0 -
Please don't take me pulling your post apart wrong...there's just key points I want to reply to.I am 16 days into the 30 day shred with Jillian Michaels, and I have been doing it every day for 16 days. I love it and it is kicking my butt into hard core shape.
First, Jillian Michaels isn't strength training. It's a great endurance/cardio workout though.However, I am kind of worried about finishing it....I can already tell I have gained lots of new muscle, but I am only planning on doing it for the allotted 30 days, and the going back to my normal workout routine (which involves pretty much just running a few miles a week). I may do it (or her Ripped program) again in the future, but I definitely need some sort of a break once I get it done. :ohwell:
The trouble is, I don't want all this new muscle I tirelessly built to waste away in the meantime and then have to start all over! :sad:
The good and bad news is, you haven't built any muscle (assuming you're eating on a calorie deficit). What you've done is increased your glycogen storage capacity (think of a wet sponge), which makes the muscles look a little bigger. The other thing you've done is improved your neuromuscular response. Basically, your brain has become more efficient at triggering your muscle fibers, increasing your strength, and the responsiveness/hardness of your muscles.
Neither of these is muscle 'gain'.1. Does anyone have experience with this or a similar strength training program situation?
2. What would you reccommend in order to maintain strength training muscle?
3. How long do I have of not working a certain muscle until it starts to deteriorate? A few days or a few weeks? Should I, say, try to do one day of the Shred once or twice a week? Or can I just make sure to do a couple pushups every day or so along with a few crunches?
Thank you very much!
For your specific questions!
1. These aren't strength training as I mentioned above
.
2. I would recommend strength training! Sorry for the joke...but the only way to keep it, is how you built it. You could continue repeating your Jillian Michaels, or any other 'DvD' workout...or, actually perform a real strength training routine 3x a week. You can use bodyweight (I've got a great program written up on my profile page...30-45 minutes 3x a week), or pick up a gym membership for weights.
3. 3x a week is plenty for maintenance. But the point is you have to restress your muscles in order to convince your body that that muscle is necessary.
I hope that helped, and please take it as it was intended, as helpful...rather than in any way derogatory. There's a lot of myths on this forum and others about building muscle while in a caloric deficit, and it's best they be put to rest with the correct information. The good part of that is, your newly gained strength, endurance...and appearance are going to be relatively easy to maintain.
This. All of it.
You've gotten some really good advice. I don't understand why you are being so cranky about it...0 -
I don't understand why you are so defensive.
I am a girl, have been lifting heavy ( nothing bellow 25 pounds dumbbells) for almost a year and if I gained 2-3 pounds of muscles I would be happy.
They gave you sound advice.
I agree she should take things in a more mature way. She's reacting things in a childish way which isn't helpful if she wants positive results. Time to grow up0 -
The amount of muscle built in 16 days will be so small it would be insignificant anyway.0
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Thanks for trying to help, but anyone who says a workout that involves handweights and things like pushups ISN'T strength training is clearly ignorant. Especially someone who beleives you can't build muscle while eating at a defecit. :noway:
LOL
(I wrote LOL, but I really just died a little inside)0 -
Ok a snippet from the HST web site. To correct my original quote of 2 weeks Its actually 9-12 days.
So what is "Strategic Deconditioning"?
What does strategic Deconditioning mean and how do we apply it to continue growing? Strategic deconditioning is simply a period of time free from training which is long enough to allow a reversal of some of the acute adaptations in muscle tissue, referring specifically to the repeated bout effect. This usually requires 9 - 12 days straight with no training. The term strategic is used because this 9 - 12 day period is not chosen at random or whenever you begin to feel "burned out" or even simply lose interest. It is done every 6-8 weeks depending on whether you finish your cycle with 5 rep work or with eccentric work respectively.
Don't confuse deconditioning with recuperation. Recuperation denotes a restoration or re-building of the tissue. This is what your average personal trainer commonly advocates. He or she will tell you, "Give the muscle plenty of time to rest before you train it again." This pattern of training will not only produce slower gains but you will inevitably plateau more quickly, albeit a fully recuperated plateau. Your muscles will be fully recuperated within the first 7 days of the deconditioning period. At 7 days you will also still retain most of the repeated bout effects. Additional down time is required to allow the muscle to lower it's defenses. 9-12 days is just long enough to allow deconditioning, but to prevent undue muscle atrophy0 -
This. All of it.
You've gotten some really good advice. I don't understand why you are being so cranky about it...
I'm being cranky because he didn't answer my question, he just told me that whatever I was doing was worthless.0 -
^^^ I agree wholeheartedly!!!
I sure wish we could build muscle in 16 days, but alas, we aren't built that way. I've been lifting heavy for 2 years and am just now starting to see the muscle I've been waiting to see.
I would keep lifting. Why would you want to stop? You're not gonna get bulky!!
So now we have someone who says it takes years to build muscle. :noway:
Thanks for all the help guys, oh wait, nevermind. :grumble:
You clearly had your mind set before you made this post and were hoping people would just agree with you. Just do whatever you want if it makes you happy :flowerforyou:0 -
This. All of it.
You've gotten some really good advice. I don't understand why you are being so cranky about it...
I'm being cranky because he didn't answer my question, he just told me that whatever I was doing was worthless.
No. He didn't. He said that if you're concerned with building and keeping muscle, you need to do a different kind of training. 30DS is great for shedding fat, but not for building muscle. Which is what he said. And then he gave you good advice.0 -
Now for the initial question, I'd say you need to continue some sort of strength training a few days a week just to maintain. I don't think muscle tone fades away too quickly, but I have no idea how long it takes.
Good luck
If you have no idea how long it takes, why bother speculating?
Is saying too quickly speculating to you? Back off! I'm simply encouraging the OP to continue with some strength training. Why are people in this thread so rude, and negative.? Learn how to be positive, and support people or don't post!
I supported the OP...look what that got me. And for the record...your information is incorrect. Just because an activity may improve your strength by some amount, does not in fact equate it to strength training.
That's like calling driving to work 'drivers training'.
To the OP:
I don't think I've ever been told I was wrong with such self centered ignorance. On this forum...you should get an award for that.
Honestly though...I see a long hard road in your future if you don't figure out that the world doesn't revolve around you...and that decency and respect wins over rudeness and demands.
Every. Single. Time.
Good luck in your future endeavors. I've a feeling you're going to need it.0 -
Now for the initial question, I'd say you need to continue some sort of strength training a few days a week just to maintain. I don't think muscle tone fades away too quickly, but I have no idea how long it takes.
Good luck
If you have no idea how long it takes, why bother speculating?
Is saying too quickly speculating to you? Back off! I'm simply encouraging the OP to continue with some strength training. Why are people in this thread so rude, and negative.? Learn how to be positive, and support people or don't post!
What you said is a perfect example of speculating, not only to me, but to anyone else that comprehends it's meaning. I'll help you out
Speculate - talk over conjecturally, or review in an idle or casual way and with an element of doubt or without sufficient reason to reach a conclusion
There is nothing wrong with you encouraging the OP to strength train or be supportive, but to give someone false information is just as detrimental as being negative or rude IMO.0 -
I'm being cranky because he didn't answer my question, he just told me that whatever I was doing was worthless.
He never said it was worthless. The exercise you are doing still has value, it just isn't training that is designed to promote muscle gain -- at least not much of it. There's value in knowing this because:
A) If you want to gain muscle, you'll take his advice and choose training methods that are more suitable to this goal
or
You will continue to train this way and still benefit from the exercise you're getting.
This is not a bad thing, it just doesn't feel good right now.0 -
This. All of it.
You've gotten some really good advice. I don't understand why you are being so cranky about it...
I'm being cranky because he didn't answer my question, he just told me that whatever I was doing was worthless.
He did not say it was worthless. You are being overly sensitive and snippy. He explained the differences in terminology. JM isn't strength training it is circuit training two VERY different things (I know because I have done both in my life).
He didn't say there was no benefit to JM. There IS. "Basically, your brain has become more efficient at triggering your muscle fibers, increasing your strength, and the responsiveness/hardness of your muscles." It just isn't lifting heavy enough to see significant muscle gain.
He encouraged a heavier lifting program to build muscle if that is what you wanted, but he did also answer your question. He said you should continue to do it 3x or so a week. Miss I'm just super defensive and cranky.0 -
The bottom line is this: if you don't want to lose your progress, you're going to need to continue with the training that you've done to get you to this point. You can't just stop. There's no finish line. Nobody can answer your question as to how fast you will lose muscle, because it depends on many different factors. So if you don't want to lose muscle, keep training. As the first reply so "unhelpfully" said, 3 times a week should be sufficient. But you can't just take a break, unless you're injured or ill. A long-term break will set back your progress, so don't take one if you don't want to start over.0
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I get that it makes you respond defensively if people seem to be slighting Jullian and her 30DS. However, I did that program, I did a different weight lifting and cardio program called Body for Life, and now I'm nearing the end of New Rules of Lifting for Women.
30DS is a challenging program and it does involve weights. Barbie weights, but weights all the same. It does challenge you. It is hella hard at times.
What 30DS doesn't do is it doesn't give you a strength program. It builds your endurance so you can "quite literally kick your own *kitten*" longer and harder. If I'd picked something other than that, I'd say you could do it longer and harder with a purse-weighted weight. It makes you do push ups. You get better at push ups. Yeah. I got better at push ups while doing 30DS.
What I didn't get was stronger. Stronger means I can lift heavier weights. I also didn't get muscular. My muscles did not increase in size other than by a bit from swelling due to glycogen load and/or water. I trust the smarter people on here about bodybuilding to explain it about body building.
I am now doing a strength training program. I am getting stronger. 30 sessions of 30DS got me so I could do the same kind of push up better. That's not a strength program. New Rules IS a strength program. Back in late october or early November when I started, I did 3 sets of push ups. I used an incline (rather than "girly push ups like in 30DS) because I wasn't strong enough to do boy push ups. After a few weeks, I was strong enough because I was lifting heavy weights for the purpose of increasing strength (not endurance like in 30DS) and I was able to do man push ups. I now do decline pushups (where my feet are elevated) and I knock out ten in a row easy. I never got to where I could increase like that in 30DS, because it is simply NOT a strength but an endurance program.
Is 30DS challenging? Yes. Did you get benefits, I bettcha. But you didn't build muscle (not on a deficit, not without testosterone sufficient to build muscles). So asking about taking a break without losing muscles simply doesn't compute because you aren't doing a strength program, you are doing an aerobics program and you didn't build muscles in the first place.
I might ask the endurance athletes on the forum how long can you take a break from one kind of endurance exercise without losing too much of your progress. I've seen research that one endurance exercise is not substitutable for another--as in if you're training to run a marathon but for whatever reason you don't run one or more of your runs and instead do a cardio-equivalent of a different exercise, training wise, that's awesome for your heart or whatever, but it isn't gonna push you to your marathon goal. I'm botching that because I read it and don't work with it, but if you re-phrase your question to be more accurately reflective of what your actual question is, you may get one of those endurance athlete smart people to answer, since the strength-athlete smart people are so disappointing to you.
I hope you find what you need and keep doing the whatever it is that pleases you and motivates you toward your own particular goals.0 -
Unfortunately, if you don't lose it, you lose it. I take it you've never had a limb in a cast before.
But how long is my point? LIke 24 hours? A week?
I think most well trained individuals can probably go 1 to 2 weeks without training and not have any concerns, and additionally, any potential backwards progress can be quickly re-established.
From my personal experience, 2 weeks off from training, set me back about 6 weeks worth of strength gains.
Hold on! Given that most split weight training routines are designed around the principle of training each muscle group once per week, are you saying that missing ONE session will result in a 6 week Relapse!!!
I.e I trained my chest today, I then take 2 weeks off and train my chest a week Wednesday, so I've only missed one chest session in my 2 weeks off. 6 weeks setback in your strength gains? Are you sure?0 -
Now for the initial question, I'd say you need to continue some sort of strength training a few days a week just to maintain. I don't think muscle tone fades away too quickly, but I have no idea how long it takes.
Good luck
If you have no idea how long it takes, why bother speculating?
Is saying too quickly speculating to you? Back off! I'm simply encouraging the OP to continue with some strength training. Why are people in this thread so rude, and negative.? Learn how to be positive, and support people or don't post!
What you said is a perfect example of speculating, not only to me, but to anyone else that comprehends it's meaning. I'll help you out
Speculate - talk over conjecturally, or review in an idle or casual way and with an element of doubt or without sufficient reason to reach a conclusion
There is nothing wrong with you encouraging the OP to strength train or be supportive, but to give someone false information is just as detrimental as being negative or rude IMO.
Find something better to do with your time.0 -
no offense but I don't really see a reason to give you any advice because you've been rude to the first couple people who tried to give you some good information and flat out dismissed it.0
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THIS! if it was easy to gain muscle, there would not be skinny kids in the gym. Gaining quality muscle is waaaay tougher than losing body fat. And losing body fat is by no means easy.
So now we have someone who says it takes years to build muscle. :noway:
Thanks for all the help guys, oh wait, nevermind. :grumble:
I wish I could gain muscle quickly, while on a deficit, using hand weights and in only 16 days. What's your secret?
You have lost some body fat and it has revealed some of the muscle under it. To maintain that, you just have to keep lifting and eating enough protein.0 -
THIS! if it was easy to gain muscle, there would not be skinny kids in the gym
So now we have someone who says it takes years to build muscle. :noway:
Thanks for all the help guys, oh wait, nevermind. :grumble:
I wish I could gain muscle quickly, while on a deficit, using hand weights and in only 16 days. What's your secret?
Or skinny adult men with quads the size of my wrists!0 -
Now for the initial question, I'd say you need to continue some sort of strength training a few days a week just to maintain. I don't think muscle tone fades away too quickly, but I have no idea how long it takes.
Good luck
If you have no idea how long it takes, why bother speculating?
Is saying too quickly speculating to you? Back off! I'm simply encouraging the OP to continue with some strength training. Why are people in this thread so rude, and negative.? Learn how to be positive, and support people or don't post!
What you said is a perfect example of speculating, not only to me, but to anyone else that comprehends it's meaning. I'll help you out
Speculate - talk over conjecturally, or review in an idle or casual way and with an element of doubt or without sufficient reason to reach a conclusion
There is nothing wrong with you encouraging the OP to strength train or be supportive, but to give someone false information is just as detrimental as being negative or rude IMO.
Find something better to do with your time.
Wow...how did you even manage to survive your first day on the internet??
This thread really is a new low for MFP.0 -
Now for the initial question, I'd say you need to continue some sort of strength training a few days a week just to maintain. I don't think muscle tone fades away too quickly, but I have no idea how long it takes.
Good luck
If you have no idea how long it takes, why bother speculating?
Is saying too quickly speculating to you? Back off! I'm simply encouraging the OP to continue with some strength training. Why are people in this thread so rude, and negative.? Learn how to be positive, and support people or don't post!
What you said is a perfect example of speculating, not only to me, but to anyone else that comprehends it's meaning. I'll help you out
Speculate - talk over conjecturally, or review in an idle or casual way and with an element of doubt or without sufficient reason to reach a conclusion
There is nothing wrong with you encouraging the OP to strength train or be supportive, but to give someone false information is just as detrimental as being negative or rude IMO.
Find something better to do with your time.
Wow...how did you even manage to survive your first day on the internet??
This thread really is a new low for MFP.
Don't post; keep it to yourself.0 -
This thread is full of really great advice and the people who don't want to hear it.0
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OP, didn't you see Tropic Thunder? You NEVER go full retard!0
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You are being given some really great advice from some great people. Take a step back and read what they are telling you. I won't even try to share what I know, because sadly I don't think you want to hear the truth. Good luck to you!0
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VERY extreme! My split routine is such that 2 weeks off would mean missing one session on each muscle group. 6 weeks worth of strength gains gone by missing one session!???Unfortunately, if you don't lose it, you lose it. I take it you've never had a limb in a cast before.
But how long is my point? LIke 24 hours? A week?
I think most well trained individuals can probably go 1 to 2 weeks without training and not have any concerns, and additionally, any potential backwards progress can be quickly re-established.
From my personal experience, 2 weeks off from training, set me back about 6 weeks worth of strength gains.
^ I believe you, but that seems very extreme and I would suspect that's not typical results. Doesn't make your reply any less valid of course.0 -
I am 16 days into the 30 day shred with Jillian Michaels, and I have been doing it every day for 16 days. I love it and it is kicking my butt into hard core shape. However, I am kind of worried about finishing it....I can already tell I am stronger, but I am only planning on doing it for the allotted 30 days, and the going back to my normal workout routine (which involves pretty much just running a few miles a week). I may do it (or her Ripped program) again in the future, but I definitely need some sort of a break once I get it done. :ohwell:
The trouble is, I don't want all this new muscle/strength I tirelessly built to waste away in the meantime and then have to start all over! :sad:
Does anyone have experience with this or a similar strength training program situation?
What would you reccommend in order to maintain strength training muscle?
How long do I have of not working a certain muscle until it starts to deteriorate? A few days or a few weeks? Should I, say, try to do one day of the Shred once or twice a week? Or can I just make sure to do a couple pushups every day or so along with a few crunches?
Thank you very much!
Hi Jann
Your strength should remain, however, if you were to suddenly stop training, any muscle you have built will begin to reduce - it doesn't really take very long, unfortunately :frown:
I am thinking you are actually talking about strength rather than building the muscle up?
ANY resistance training - and this goes for activities such as running, cycling, swimming etc - will keep the muscles strong, so after you have finished the Shred, if you decided to do the other activites, it will definitely not be to your detriment xxx0 -
Funniest.thread.ever. And by funniest, I may or may not mean worst.
Now to say something on topic...
I went on a hiatus for about three weeks several months ago. I do lift heavy (for me), but not with the new rules... I just do what I do on the machines at the gym. I don't lift all that much, but I still feel like a badass. :blushing:
Anyway-during that three weeks, I got set back about 10-15 pounds from where I was, on average (I do different amounts depending on the machine, and that was the average loss). ie: My incline press had been 65 pounds, and it went back down to 50. My overhead had been 55 pounds, and it went back down to 45. I recovered quickly, though, and was back to where I was before my break after about about five or six sessions (a week and a half).0 -
Every week there is a new post about how people are rude and snarky while answering simple posts. This post is a PRIME example of why it happens. OP, you've been given good, sound information that can be backed by scientific studies and in return you've responded insultingly... (and for the most part everyone has been patient with you). THIS is why long timers tend to not go out of their way for others. There is nothing quite like getting slapped down because someone doesn't want to hear what's being said.
Edit for typo0
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