Opinions needed on muscle building while lowering body fat

savageman69

So im trying to shed the last few lbs of body fat that i have while gain muscle is this possible....ive heard both yes and no.... Im trying to get at least 1g of protein per lean body mass lb and i eat pretty clean...lean meats, protein shakes, eggs, whites, veggies, fruits ect...i try to stay within my calorie goal of 1490 right now to keep loosing lbs but go over often because i do lots of cardio to shed body fat as well.

Ive gained some muscle toning granted its only been a couple months and i realize it takes time to build muscles i just want to be sure im not wasting protein powder taking it when im not going to gain any muscle while trying to shed body fat.

Love your advice guys thanks alot

3laine75

i am def not an expert but i think it would be hard to gain muscle on 1490cals.

3laine75

just had a nosy at your diary. i'd say you really need to eat more, being a guy. and if you want to gain muscle you need to do some strength training. at the moment you will be burning away both muscle and fat. check out 'starting strength' or 'stronglifts 5x5'.

savageman69

Sorry maybe i forgot to add i strength train every other day..rotate out muscle groups and stay as heavy as possible to keep forum....I do cardio id say 5-6 days a week as well...i have quite a bit of body fat % to drop is my main goal as well



Thats what i figured...just want to see what the general group thinks...often i hit 1700s with a hour or so cardio..If i can just tone while loosing body fat thats alright just want to be sure im not hidering anything. My shoulders, legs and arms have really shaped up from the nothing before but my long term goal is to become ripped...but i want the 10% body fat as well to get abs and great look

nannabannana

bump see what everyone suggests.

savageman69

bump see what everyone suggests.

thanks me to

Matt_Wild

Gaining muscle = calorie surplus

Losing fat = calorie deficit

Doing both at the same time = impossible unless genetic freak or new to training as the body adjusts.

almarsala

Bump

savageman69

humm well that sucks

C00lCountry

Gaining muscle = calorie surplus

Losing fat = calorie deficit

Doing both at the same time = impossible unless genetic freak or new to training as the body adjusts.

I think calorie surplus would be fat Gaining.
I don't see where extra calories would make you gain muscle.

Rae6503

Eating that low isn't just going to result in no muscles gained, it might result in more muscle lost. You also might be doing too much cardio depending on what intensity and duration you are doing. I'd suggest eating slightly below maintenance (like 300 below), continuing to get your protein in, and getting a good solid full body lifting plan like Strong lifts. Maybe keep your cardio low intensity or limit it to 3 or so days a week.

jolarocknrolla

your cardio is wiping out your muscle gains ... plus the undereating. I would not do cardio on strength days if i wanted to build muscle. Or just continue to cut and build up muscle later, you can get good results cutting/bulking rinse/repeat.

you can also look into "Leangains" but i haven't seen any IRL good results from that yet, though there may be some out there ::shrug::

Rae6503

Gaining muscle = calorie surplus

Losing fat = calorie deficit

Doing both at the same time = impossible unless genetic freak or new to training as the body adjusts.

I think calorie surplus would be fat Gaining.
I don't see where extra calories would make you gain muscle.

Where does muscle come from then? It's new tissue. How does your body make new tissue when it doesn't have enough food to maintain the tissue it currently has?

*for those new to lifting, people returning to lifting or people who are obese it *might* make a small amount of muscle from the calories you do eat even while on a deficit....

KittieLea

Try lifting 5-6 days a week and don't be afraid to go heavy! Lift as heavy as you possibly can for each set of about 10. Then do about 30 minutes of moderate intensity cardio 4 days a week. Be sure you're eating enough to support muscle growth as well.
Multiply your goal weight by 10 to arrive at your baseline.

Add between 200 and 500 calories to determine the ideal calorie range that will support the muscle growth.

(So, for example, goal weight of 110 (lbs) X 10 + 200 = 1300 and 110 (lbs) X 10 + 500 = 1600).

On rest days and lighter days (arms, shoulders, abs), eat in the lower range (1,300 calories). On heavier days (chest, legs, back), eat in the higher range (1,600 calories).

Source:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/jamie-eason-livefit-trainer-phase-2-day-43.html

MissMollieD

Everyone (termed loosely) on here says you can't build muscle while losing fat.

Though I've seen contestants on The Biggest Loser do it all the time, so I believe it is possible.

Rae6503

Everyone (termed loosely) on here says you can't build muscle while losing fat.

Though I've seen contestants on The Biggest Loser do it all the time, so I believe it is possible.

They are obese. It is possible for obese people.

DBB07

Gaining muscle = calorie surplus

Losing fat = calorie deficit

Doing both at the same time = impossible unless genetic freak or new to training as the body adjusts.

^^^^This: additionally, if a person is obese they can build muscle on a calorie deficit by using the couple hundred thousand calories stored around their waste to fuel strength training.

jolarocknrolla

Add between 200 and 500 calories to determine the ideal calorie range that will support the muscle growth.

(So, for example, goal weight of 110 (lbs) X 10 + 200 = 1300 and 110 (lbs) X 10 + 500 = 1600).

On rest days and lighter days (arms, shoulders, abs), eat in the lower range (1,300 calories). On heavier days (chest, legs, back), eat in the higher range (1,600 calories).

Sir Mixalot says: "Ha ha, only if she's 5'3".

Rae6503

Add between 200 and 500 calories to determine the ideal calorie range that will support the muscle growth.

(So, for example, goal weight of 110 (lbs) X 10 + 200 = 1300 and 110 (lbs) X 10 + 500 = 1600).

On rest days and lighter days (arms, shoulders, abs), eat in the lower range (1,300 calories). On heavier days (chest, legs, back), eat in the higher range (1,600 calories).

Sir Mixalot says: "Ha ha, only if she's 5'3".

LOL. Yeah, OP is a dude with a goal of 170lbs not 110.

savageman69

Yes im a dude lol... 5 ft 11...right now 180.5...goal set at 170 but i think i need to go lower maybe 160 ish or lower...Right now my bmi is 25.2 and low end of my target bmi is 139 and high end 179. I still have body fat to loose without a doubt.

My bmr is 1850 cals it says....and maintance is 2450....My goal is set to 2lbs a week loss and it has me at 1490 cals a day and some days i go over it some i dont depends on how hungry i am.

Im unsure of my body fat % currently but i intend to buy a new scale this weekend (weight watchers) that does body fat, and weight. Personally i could careless if i didnt loose more weight but i want to loose the body fat...IE man boobs and stomach

Cardio wise i walk and stationary bike...i use the mfp calorie count for how many ive burnt so i know its always high so i dont eat back all the cals to stay on track

Matt_Wild

Gaining muscle = calorie surplus

Losing fat = calorie deficit

Doing both at the same time = impossible unless genetic freak or new to training as the body adjusts.

I think calorie surplus would be fat Gaining.
I don't see where extra calories would make you gain muscle.

Think about what you are saying. What do you BUILD muscle from?

CallMeCupcakeDammit

Here's a good read on cardio vs. weight training. Listen to Matt, he knows his shnit! Shoot, just look at him!

http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2010/02/01/what-burns-more-calories-cardio-intervals-or-weight-training/

DBB07

Yes im a dude lol... 5 ft 11...right now 180.5...goal set at 170 but i think i need to go lower maybe 160 ish or lower...Right now my bmi is 25.2 and low end of my target bmi is 139 and high end 179. I still have body fat to loose without a doubt.

My bmr is 1850 cals it says....and maintance is 2450....My goal is set to 2lbs a week loss and it has me at 1490 cals a day and some days i go over it some i dont depends on how hungry i am.

Im unsure of my body fat % currently but i intend to buy a new scale this weekend (weight watchers) that does body fat, and weight. Personally i could careless if i didnt loose more weight but i want to loose the body fat...IE man boobs and stomach

Cardio wise i walk and stationary bike...i use the mfp calorie count for how many ive burnt so i know its always high so i dont eat back all the cals to stay on track

___________________________________________________________________________________________

If you're 5'11, 180.5, and have "man boobs" and "[a] stomach," your issue isn't your weight -- it's your body fat %, or stated otherwise, your lean mass %. You need to stimulate some HGH and testosterone with heavy weight lifting. I'd focus on the big lifts, if I were you: deadlifts, squats, bench press, and screw the cardio. I'd use a weight where I could only do 5 to 8 reps. I'd also look to increase your fat and protein intake and cut back on carbs -- if you can manage it and still lift heavy. Additionally, your resting metabolic rate (RMR) is around 1700 calories. I'd start by eating about 1850 a day and lift like a madman, anywhere from 3 to 5 days a week. You can tap into your body fat for additional calories if you need it. My guess is that you're probably around 23+% body fat if you are as you physically describe. You shouldn't be at 5'11, 181. If hormones were firing right, you should be at about 14% body fat.

savageman69

Okay i get the lifting heavy thing ive been doing this....But ive read on here a thousand times you need to eat clean and cardio to burn body fat....no spot reductions exist so i need to keep pounding out the cardio to get my body fat % lower correct....Like i said end weight doesnt bother me long as i have low body fat %.

I have been lifting heavy since i started weight loss and havent lost any strength actually have gained some...and a fair amount of toning for the length i have been doing it.

I just want to know whats the best way to shed the body fat %....and weither im going to get any more muscle gains doing it or if ill have to wait until my body fat is low enough

Matt_Wild

Thanks Rach. I should point out I'm a sponsored Gaspari Athlete and also act as a private prep coach. I'm not some random giving out random advice. Its my job.

I always recommend to the guys I prep (I currently have around 10 paying customers on my books) to cut fat first and lean bulk second. That way confidence improves as you feel lean and more muscled (even tho in reality you are just less fat) and when you bulk you are more anabolic and can register fat gain better as you put on muscle and retard calories as required.

cannonsky

Gaining muscle = calorie surplus

Losing fat = calorie deficit

Doing both at the same time = impossible unless genetic freak or new to training as the body adjusts.

I think calorie surplus would be fat Gaining.
I don't see where extra calories would make you gain muscle.

that would be where weight training comes in..

savageman69

Thanks Rach. I should point out I'm a sponsored Gaspari Athlete and also act as a private prep coach. I'm not some random giving out random advice. Its my job.

I always recommend to the guys I prep (I currently have around 10 paying customers on my books) to cut fat first and lean bulk second. That way confidence improves as you feel lean and more muscled (even tho in reality you are just less fat) and when you bulk you are more anabolic and can register fat gain better as you put on muscle and retard calories as required.

Thanks matt i appreciate the advice fully....Im a huge gaspari fan and its the only protein i use ......I hear what your saying and i understand...Im going to keep lifting (to keep what i have and get into the routine) and cardio to shed body fat %. Then when i feel my body fat % is in check i will up my calories with more protein and whole foods.

This is all i need to know and one day i dream to be half or 1/4 of the shape your in.

Thanks again for the insight


Mark

ninerbuff

Gaining muscle = calorie surplus

Losing fat = calorie deficit

Doing both at the same time = impossible unless genetic freak or new to training as the body adjusts.

I think calorie surplus would be fat Gaining.
I don't see where extra calories would make you gain muscle.

To gain muscle you WILL increase weight. To increase weight requires a calorie surplus. In a perfect world, all you would need to do is consume protein to build muscle, but unfortunately not all protein goes to muscle building.

A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

mmapags

Gaining muscle = calorie surplus

Losing fat = calorie deficit

Doing both at the same time = impossible unless genetic freak or new to training as the body adjusts.

I think calorie surplus would be fat Gaining.
I don't see where extra calories would make you gain muscle.

Think about what you are saying. What do you BUILD muscle from?

Matt is 100% correct. You have to provide the fuel for muscle cell growth. Can't be done on a deficit unless you are obsese and the fuel is coming from fat stores. There are a couple of ways to get at this and Matt identified one which is to cut 1st then bulk to build muscle. You are within 10 lbs of your goal, you could bulk for 60 days at a slight surplus, say 200 to 400 calories, to minimize fat gain while bulking. Then cut again to lose the fat. Or you could so something like the Leangains protocol. It involves a slight deficit on rest days and a slight surplus on workout days with intermittent fasting mixed in. This can be a little slower a process but you gain muscle and minimize fat. But you are not going to gain muscle on a deficit.

PS: Matt, do they put crack in that Myofusion stuff?? I am totally addicted to the Milk Chocolate!!

ninerbuff

Everyone (termed loosely) on here says you can't build muscle while losing fat.

Though I've seen contestants on The Biggest Loser do it all the time, so I believe it is possible.

It's possible for obese/very overweight to gain "some" muscle, but not likely in a high amount. And don't believe everything you see on the BL. It's a reality show that has dramatic weight loss on an unrealistic scale. 90% of the contestants regain a lot of weight back (or even more) which is about that same as the current population who diet to lose weight.

A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Mrs_TrimWaistFatWallet

This

You have to do rounds of each approach, ie bulk, cut, bulk, cut, to get where you want to be. I'd say get to your goal weight first, then work on building muscle.

Gaining muscle = calorie surplus

Losing fat = calorie deficit

Doing both at the same time = impossible unless genetic freak or new to training as the body adjusts.