Carnivores – why?

penrbrown

Try looking up the word 'sentience.'

How do we know plants are not sentient?

There's a great link to an article within this thread that suggest plants have a great deal of sophistication in their interactions with the world and with each other... Just because they haven't communicated to you directly doesn't mean they aren't sentient.

_VoV

Try looking up the word 'sentience.'

How do we know plants are not sentient?

There's a great link to an article within this thread that suggest plants have a great deal of sophistication in their interactions with the world and with each other... Just because they haven't communicated to you directly doesn't mean they aren't sentient.

The point is that there is incontrovertible evidence that animals ARE.

amivox

For those of you that hunt, I commend you. I think that if someone wants to eat meat, they SHOULD kill it themselves. That is natural. Factory farming isn't. And the other person that said that cavemen didn't even eat vegetables and fruits, pretty sure you are wrong because plants did exist back then. Even native american indians had men hunting and women gathering plant based foods. I see nothing wrong with hunting, as long as the whole animal is being used and not wasted. If you kill a deer, you better eat ALL of the venison. You better do something constructive with the hide and the antlers.

As a vegetarian, I WISH people hunted instead of buying factory farmed food.

You realize there are different ways to get meat, don't you? There are many small farms that ethically raise delicious meat treats for humans to consume. Factory farming is the devil, you are right there... but maybe if you looked a little deeper into the matter you might see that there are healthy, sustainable, and respectful ways to meet your meat needs.

Um, if you had read all of my posts you would see that I wrote that I encourage my meat eating friends to eat organic and pasture raised animals because of the fact that they are treated way better. Hunting is still a better option than those options as well. But its cool, flame me for just one post of the many I have posted. Its all good. F*cks I give = 0

doorki

Dear Vegetarians:

Hate to break it to you... but plants are living things too!

Oh good lord.....this is the best you can do?

^^ Is THIS the best YOU can do?

First, pick a tomato. Then, run down a wild boar, wrestle it to the ground, and fight it to the death. Now, let's compare those two experiences.

So you would prefer to feed on the reproductive organs of a helpless plant rather than allow a creature to fight or its life?

Are you deliberately trying not to understand my point?

Are you deliberately trying to evade the point that plants are living things as well? So it is no less humane to kill an animal than harvest plants.

You forget that it takes at least 2 pounds of plant food to create a single pound of meat (some estimates are much higher). Therefore, if your heart bleeds for plants, you are causing double the 'pain' due to your food choice. But truly, I doubt if you would put the 'suffering' of plants on the order you do of animals, that you aren't being at all serious. I cut my teeth on this argument as a young vegetarian 40 years ago, so you aren't being as original as you may think you are being.

I am fully conscious of my place in the world as an omnivore so my heart does not bleed for the food chain. But, new studies in the physiology of plants have come out in the last 40 years that may change your views on sentience and how it relates to the plant world. If your vegetarian/veganism is based on the moral argument that it is cruel to feed on living, sentient creatures, then logic dictates that you must expand this to plant life as well.

BaconMD

Dear Vegetarians:

Hate to break it to you... but plants are living things too!

Oh good lord.....this is the best you can do?

^^ Is THIS the best YOU can do?

First, pick a tomato. Then, run down a wild boar, wrestle it to the ground, and fight it to the death. Now, let's compare those two experiences.

Well, the first sounds pretty boring. The second sounds like an epic battle that could go either way, the victor of which actually deserves to feast on his victim. And drink mead from a goblet.

amivox

I never said that I don't get eating meat either. I used to be the one telling MY vegetarian friends that "animals taste good."

This topic is a bit of a troll because someone posted a topic called "vegetarian... why?"

I really don't care if you eat meat. The point is, vegetarians are sick of being bashed or talked down to because we choose not to.

"Nothing will benefit human health and increase the chances for survival of life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet." —Albert Einstein

Humans are destroying the ecosystem with the meat industry. Which is why I say that people should hunt their food if they want to eat meat. I obviously don't hate meat eaters if I cook my boyfriend bacon.

Um ... the farming industry isn't much better you know?

The government regulates the agricultural community and forces farmers to grow subsidized corn.

_VoV

Dear Vegetarians:

Hate to break it to you... but plants are living things too!

Oh good lord.....this is the best you can do?

^^ Is THIS the best YOU can do?

First, pick a tomato. Then, run down a wild boar, wrestle it to the ground, and fight it to the death. Now, let's compare those two experiences.

So you would prefer to feed on the reproductive organs of a helpless plant rather than allow a creature to fight or its life?

Are you deliberately trying not to understand my point?

Are you deliberately trying to evade the point that plants are living things as well? So it is no less humane to kill an animal than harvest plants.

You forget that it takes at least 2 pounds of plant food to create a single pound of meat (some estimates are much higher). Therefore, if your heart bleeds for plants, you are causing double the 'pain' due to your food choice. But truly, I doubt if you would put the 'suffering' of plants on the order you do of animals, that you aren't being at all serious. I cut my teeth on this argument as a young vegetarian 40 years ago, so you aren't being as original as you may think you are being.

I am fully conscious of my place in the world as an omnivore so my heart does not bleed for the food chain. But, new studies in the physiology of plants have come out in the last 40 years that may change your views on sentience and how it relates to the plant world. If your vegetarian/veganism is based on the moral argument that it is cruel to feed on living, sentient creatures, then logic dictates that you must expand this to plant life as well.

Ah, so you are looking for a ch*nk in my armor, so you can convince yourself I'm a hypocrite. Sorry, but you really need to do some introspection to see why you would want to do that. Peace.

BruteSquad

Carnivors only eat meat. *look in my pantry* Damn never mind

I was all excited, I thought you said look in my panty.....

But seriously, omnivore, Ogre, man, myth, legendary hero.

I try to eat 286 grams of protein a day. That is reason one.

Second reason, if you start from the front, and count to the third tooth, left or right of center, that tooth right there is designed to tear meat. I am designed to eat meat, as well as roots, legumes, fish, pretty much anything. Thus the Omnivore.

The truth is, there is nothing you can show me scientifically that I cannot counter that says I shouldn't eat meat.

And it is tasty.

doorki

Dear Vegetarians:

Hate to break it to you... but plants are living things too!

Oh good lord.....this is the best you can do?

^^ Is THIS the best YOU can do?

First, pick a tomato. Then, run down a wild boar, wrestle it to the ground, and fight it to the death. Now, let's compare those two experiences.

So you would prefer to feed on the reproductive organs of a helpless plant rather than allow a creature to fight or its life?

Are you deliberately trying not to understand my point?

Are you deliberately trying to evade the point that plants are living things as well? So it is no less humane to kill an animal than harvest plants.

You forget that it takes at least 2 pounds of plant food to create a single pound of meat (some estimates are much higher). Therefore, if your heart bleeds for plants, you are causing double the 'pain' due to your food choice. But truly, I doubt if you would put the 'suffering' of plants on the order you do of animals, that you aren't being at all serious. I cut my teeth on this argument as a young vegetarian 40 years ago, so you aren't being as original as you may think you are being.

I am fully conscious of my place in the world as an omnivore so my heart does not bleed for the food chain. But, new studies in the physiology of plants have come out in the last 40 years that may change your views on sentience and how it relates to the plant world. If your vegetarian/veganism is based on the moral argument that it is cruel to feed on living, sentient creatures, then logic dictates that you must expand this to plant life as well.

Ah, so you are looking for a ch*nk in my armor, so you can convince yourself I'm a hypocrite. Sorry, but you really need to do some introspection to see why you would want to do that. Peace.

No, I am trying to get to the bottom of a flawed argument that leads followers to deem themselves morally superior. I find it interesting that you would leave rather than actually attempt to logically work out the discussion and defend your stance.

sdai3

I've never seen so many ignorant responses in one thread before.. nicely done!

I do, however, enjoy the 4th grade mentality responses. "IT TASTE GOOD" "CANT GET PROTEIN WITHOUT IT" "PUT IT ON DA GRILL YA'LL"

Educate yourselves jeesh.

medicinemantoo

People
Eat
Tasty
Animals

amivox

And really, again, this topic was a joke.

The thing that pisses me off is that when I go to a barbecue and bring my own food, I don't judge anyone that is eating meat. I don't sit there and lecture them or even talk about my dietary decisions unless I am asked. BUT, I get people CONSTANTLY pretty much harassing me for my food choices. I get people deliberately putting their plates of meat right in my face and telling me that I know I want to eat it. I have people telling me all about how God put animals here for us to eat, so not only is this meat eating stuff thrown in my face, but now I am supposed to have a religious argument as well because I don't believe in God. Its not comfortable to even go out and do normal things like have a barbecue because I get treated like I am some sort of freak. I never push it on anyone, so why would someone else think that its ok to force their choices on me? All I want to do is eat my damn bbq fake meat, play some bags, and drink some beers. BUT IT ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS comes back to me being a vegetarian. People have to say something every time. I get told my food doesn't taste good, I get questioned about why I would eat fake "chicken" if its still supposed to taste like chicken... Its stupid and pretty friggin rude. Then I get the jerks in my family that think its ok to sneak meat into things I am eating. WELL, I can taste the difference and its pretty effed up that they would try to force me to eat something that I don't want to eat. Like, wtf? STOP! You eat meat, I don't. Get over it.

sktllmdrhmz

I've never seen so many ignorant responses in one thread before.. nicely done!

I do, however, enjoy the 4th grade mentality responses. "IT TASTE GOOD" "CANT GET PROTEIN WITHOUT IT" "PUT IT ON DA GRILL YA'LL"

Educate yourselves jeesh.

Name's not jeesh.

Sarauk2sf

No, I am trying to get to the bottom of a flawed argument that leads followers to deem themselves morally superior. I find it interesting that you would leave rather than actually attempt to logically work out the discussion and defend your stance.

I cannot answer for the person you were quoting. But personally, I do not feel morally superior in any way. I do not eat meat because it makes ME feel better about MYSELF, not feel that I am better than anyone else.

(Caps for emphasis not because I am shouting!!)

Edited to fix quote

_VoV

Dear Vegetarians:

Hate to break it to you... but plants are living things too!

Oh good lord.....this is the best you can do?

^^ Is THIS the best YOU can do?

First, pick a tomato. Then, run down a wild boar, wrestle it to the ground, and fight it to the death. Now, let's compare those two experiences.

So you would prefer to feed on the reproductive organs of a helpless plant rather than allow a creature to fight or its life?

Are you deliberately trying not to understand my point?

Are you deliberately trying to evade the point that plants are living things as well? So it is no less humane to kill an animal than harvest plants.

You forget that it takes at least 2 pounds of plant food to create a single pound of meat (some estimates are much higher). Therefore, if your heart bleeds for plants, you are causing double the 'pain' due to your food choice. But truly, I doubt if you would put the 'suffering' of plants on the order you do of animals, that you aren't being at all serious. I cut my teeth on this argument as a young vegetarian 40 years ago, so you aren't being as original as you may think you are being.

I am fully conscious of my place in the world as an omnivore so my heart does not bleed for the food chain. But, new studies in the physiology of plants have come out in the last 40 years that may change your views on sentience and how it relates to the plant world. If your vegetarian/veganism is based on the moral argument that it is cruel to feed on living, sentient creatures, then logic dictates that you must expand this to plant life as well.

Ah, so you are looking for a ch*nk in my armor, so you can convince yourself I'm a hypocrite. Sorry, but you really need to do some introspection to see why you would want to do that. Peace.

No, I am trying to get to the bottom of a flawed argument that leads followers to deem themselves morally superior. I find it interesting that you would leave rather than actually attempt to logically work out the discussion and defend your stance.

I generally dislike argument for argument's sake. You have already indicated that you are 'fully conscious of your place in the world as an omnivore.' This language indicates an obdurate stance. So, be happy in your world of certitude. My husband, VegesaurusRex, on the other hand, loves these sorts of discussions, so he will probably be in here shortly. Adieu.

VegesaurusRex

Dear Vegetarians:

Hate to break it to you... but plants are living things too!

Oh good lord.....this is the best you can do?

^^ Is THIS the best YOU can do?

First, pick a tomato. Then, run down a wild boar, wrestle it to the ground, and fight it to the death. Now, let's compare those two experiences.

So you would prefer to feed on the reproductive organs of a helpless plant rather than allow a creature to fight or its life?

Are you deliberately trying not to understand my point?

Are you deliberately trying to evade the point that plants are living things as well? So it is no less humane to kill an animal than harvest plants.

You forget that it takes at least 2 pounds of plant food to create a single pound of meat (some estimates are much higher). Therefore, if your heart bleeds for plants, you are causing double the 'pain' due to your food choice. But truly, I doubt if you would put the 'suffering' of plants on the order you do of animals, that you aren't being at all serious. I cut my teeth on this argument as a young vegetarian 40 years ago, so you aren't being as original as you may think you are being.

I am fully conscious of my place in the world as an omnivore so my heart does not bleed for the food chain. But, new studies in the physiology of plants have come out in the last 40 years that may change your views on sentience and how it relates to the plant world. If your vegetarian/veganism is based on the moral argument that it is cruel to feed on living, sentient creatures, then logic dictates that you must expand this to plant life as well.

Really? Could you give me cite to at least ONE of these many studies? Since plants don't have nervous systems, I really want to see this. I've only read two pages of this but already I have seen the usual dumb arguments.

amivox

I eat meat because I LIKE IT! Nothing like a bloody, rare steak that's barely shown the flame of a hot, sizzling grill, IMO. I don't understand why anyone should justify why they eat what they do. Eat what you want and leave others to do the same in peace. :ohwell:

THANK YOU

amivox

No, I am trying to get to the bottom of a flawed argument that leads followers to deem themselves morally superior. I find it interesting that you would leave rather than actually attempt to logically work out the discussion and defend your stance.

I cannot answer for the person you were quoting. But personally, I do not feel morally superior in any way. I do not eat meat because it makes ME feel better about MYSELF, not feel that I am better than anyone else.

(Caps for emphasis not because I am shouting!!)

Edited to fix quote

I don't feel morally superior, either, so I don't know where this person got that from. I just don't eat meat because it is what makes me happy and ok with my food decisions. I don't think I am better than anyone. I know I have plenty of other things that people would probably find morally objectionable about me.

kayemme

.

I totally understand the moral/ethical objections to eating animals, even if I personally choose to eat them myself. But if meat is so gross, why do so many vegetarians eat so much fake meat?

Exactly!!....I'm not finding a big market for fake brussel sprouts and brocolli.

that's not always the case, but the american palate has been conditioned for a certain salty quality and it takes time to get out of that habit. at least that was the case for me. i never eat meat substitutes. i occasionally eat meat, but i prefer vegetables.

with me, anyway, i thought i didn't like vegetables because i had only had them from cans or boxes. what an eye opener when i first tasted beautiful, fresh broccoli! that was many years ago now, and i can't imagine going back. same with brussels sprouts: roasted with garlic and olive oil, you really can't beat 'em.

carld256

Second reason, if you start from the front, and count to the third tooth, left or right of center, that tooth right there is designed to tear meat. I am designed to eat meat, as well as roots, legumes, fish, pretty much anything. Thus the Omnivore.

The truth is, there is nothing you can show me scientifically that I cannot counter that says I shouldn't eat meat.

And it is tasty.

All mammals have canines, even horses and cows. I'm guessing they're a genetic hand me down from our reptilian ancestors. They're not specifically designed so humans can rip and tear meat.