Where is the science!
Wonderob
Posts: 1,372 Member
Our bodies are a science so weight loss should be too; however we see the same old arguments on here every day that we did 20 years ago and it's not right! Why are we still guessing about things when we should be given indisputable facts!
The following are debated every day SO PLEASE DON'T ANSWER THEM; we need to be told these things once and for all by an impartial, unbiased organisation with the sole agenda of telling the facts!
Does breakfast kick start your metabolism?
Does spreading your meals out through the day keep your metabolism high?
The old favourite - what is starvation/survival mode? We need to know when or if it kicks in?
Another favourite - are artificial sweetners bad for you?
Is it as simple as calories in = calories out?
Do meal times matter? Is it ok to eat late at night?
To lose weight, Is it better to exercise in the 'fat buring zone'?
Are low carb diets bad for you?
Many many more!
You may well think you have the answer to these but it won't be the same as someone elses. It should be!
The one thing I often hear is "Everyone is different", well no, we're all almost exactly the same chemically and biologically. Scientists didn't stop searching for a cure for leprosy because "we're all different'!
We shouldn't be working to anecdotal evidence...... "Drinking chicken soup worked for me" "I've lost 50lbs by not eating after 3pm" "I've started eating breakfast and now I'm losing the lbs!"
We need an indisputable list - not from Jenny Craig, not from Jillian Michaels, not from Shaun T, not from Tony Horton - they all have their own agenda!
We can all instantly find out exactly how many calories are in a McDonalds chicken burger with half the poppy seeds taken off, We have HRMs to tell us eactly how many calories 33 minutes of Zumba burnt. Dieting SHOULD be getting easier! WHY ISN'T IT?!!!
The following are debated every day SO PLEASE DON'T ANSWER THEM; we need to be told these things once and for all by an impartial, unbiased organisation with the sole agenda of telling the facts!
Does breakfast kick start your metabolism?
Does spreading your meals out through the day keep your metabolism high?
The old favourite - what is starvation/survival mode? We need to know when or if it kicks in?
Another favourite - are artificial sweetners bad for you?
Is it as simple as calories in = calories out?
Do meal times matter? Is it ok to eat late at night?
To lose weight, Is it better to exercise in the 'fat buring zone'?
Are low carb diets bad for you?
Many many more!
You may well think you have the answer to these but it won't be the same as someone elses. It should be!
The one thing I often hear is "Everyone is different", well no, we're all almost exactly the same chemically and biologically. Scientists didn't stop searching for a cure for leprosy because "we're all different'!
We shouldn't be working to anecdotal evidence...... "Drinking chicken soup worked for me" "I've lost 50lbs by not eating after 3pm" "I've started eating breakfast and now I'm losing the lbs!"
We need an indisputable list - not from Jenny Craig, not from Jillian Michaels, not from Shaun T, not from Tony Horton - they all have their own agenda!
We can all instantly find out exactly how many calories are in a McDonalds chicken burger with half the poppy seeds taken off, We have HRMs to tell us eactly how many calories 33 minutes of Zumba burnt. Dieting SHOULD be getting easier! WHY ISN'T IT?!!!
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Replies
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We need an indisputable list - not from Jenny Craig, not from Jillian Michaels, not from Shaun T, not from Tony Horton - they all have their own agenda!
who do think should provide you with this list? I really dont understand your point unless maybe you've had a few pints0 -
We need an indisputable list - not from Jenny Craig, not from Jillian Michaels, not from Shaun T, not from Tony Horton - they all have their own agenda!
who do think should provide you with this list? I really dont understand your point unless maybe you've had a few pints
It was a long post so I understand why you didn't read it all
"we need to be told these things once and for all by an impartial, unbiased organisation with the sole agenda of telling the facts!"
Governments, World Health Organisation, United Nations, Universities, National Health Service ....0 -
Dieting has always been hard. The basic concept of calories in/calories out was fine when all there was to eat was healthy, clean food and we worked hard every day - usually doing physical labor. Now we have really bad food choices. Everything is too easy and processed. Fast food is on every corner. Soft drinks are prevalent. Obesity is rampant. Dieting is hard. Someone every few minutes comes up with another gimic that will "help you lose weight for good". I don't buy it. I believe until we get off our collective a$$es and decide to eat "real food" we are doomed to failure. Or at least to short bursts of success followed by failure. Just my opinion.
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I think one problem is that new research appears all the time. New research suggests low carbing is bad for you. Well, women. Kinda. http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/329161/Heart-attack-risk-in-dieting0
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We need an indisputable list - not from Jenny Craig, not from Jillian Michaels, not from Shaun T, not from Tony Horton - they all have their own agenda!
who do think should provide you with this list? I really dont understand your point unless maybe you've had a few pints
It was a long post so I understand why you didn't read it all
"we need to be told these things once and for all by an impartial, unbiased organisation with the sole agenda of telling the facts!"
Governments, World Health Organisation, United Nations, Universities, National Health Service ....
why? and the U.S. government does tell americans what they "should" eat. I dont agree with my government regarding food choices but why do we need anyone telling us these things? we have brains and the information is available. What we need to do is take responsibility for ourselves and quit waitng to be told anything. We are not sheep.
And also, I looked at your diary. You dont eat much fresh food and do eat a lot of convenience prepared food. You could start with a basic diet of more fresh food and less packaged food. good luck0 -
I think one problem is that new research appears all the time. New research suggests low carbing is bad for you. Well, women. Kinda. http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/329161/Heart-attack-risk-in-dieting
I read this and it is a very weak and flawed study. I wouldnt make any decision based on this.0 -
I think one problem is that new research appears all the time. New research suggests low carbing is bad for you. Well, women. Kinda. http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/329161/Heart-attack-risk-in-dieting
I read this and it is a very weak and flawed study. I wouldnt make any decision based on this.
Interested to know where your concerns are...0 -
We can all instantly find out exactly how many calories are in a McDonalds chicken burger with half the poppy seeds taken off, We have HRMs to tell us eactly how many calories 33 minutes of Zumba burnt. Dieting SHOULD be getting easier! WHY ISN'T IT?!!!
I hate to tell you that these are also just guesses...
There are a lot of different factors including changes in the manufacturing, food places not measuring the ingredients exactly (really think they have time for that with every sandwich, salad, shake?), change in places that produce is grown, even how long a vegetable has been cut for etc that can change nutrition without you knowing the difference so the nutritional information of most food is a rough estimate or an average.
Also heart rate monitors estimate the calories you burn during any exercise. They can't tell exactly because your caloric burn is affected by more than just your heart rate. If you really burned more calories just with your heart rate being high, it would be possible to scare everyone thin, don't you think? They're also averages.
So, get over the hang up of what should be and focus on what is. Eat whole foods and exercise and you'll lose weight. Maybe not exactly the amount you're aiming for each week, but it should be damn near close.
Good luck!
Edit: fixing a typo.0 -
I think there is actually quite a few scientific studies into all these things, who do you think calculated a formula for BMR BMI etc, we have a big obesity epidemic in the west so there is alot of research by alot of scientific institutions.
The problem is there is alot to look through so you have to kind of filter it, (I think your argument is that you want one institution to filter everything, but that is unlikely). My filter is burn more cals then I consume (as this is widely proven), exercise to boost my metabolism (proven to increase general health, metabolism and mental health), eat plenty of vitamin rich foods fruit, veg, lean meat, wholemeal, lots of water and "try" to avoid things that are proven bad as much as possible (sat fat, salt, corn/maize syrup/starch, mostly found in processed foods)
I also find anecdotal evidence very useful I friend people who are roughly the same height, weight, goals, age, gender etc and if they are losing (pounds or inches), I try to emulate parts of their diet/regime.
Sorry if that's not much help
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It's a good point but.......
The scientists don't seem to be able to agree though and there are so many people that follow bad science but if they've got the loudest voices then those are the ones the politicians listen to. On top of that you've got the pressure from industry through lobbying and such like. Then look at the diet books. They are often "written" by celebrities!!! And if you need anymore problems you have just plain big ego's that mean people will hold onto ideas regardless.
Me, I generally only eat once a day and never do cardio but still get results. Wouldn't expect others to follow that though.
Nice idea but it aint never going to happen.0 -
why? and the U.S. government does tell americans what they "should" eat. I dont agree with my government regarding food choices but why do we need anyone telling us these things? we have brains and the information is available. What we need to do is take responsibility for ourselves and quit waitng to be told anything. We are not sheep.
And also, I looked at your diary. You dont eat much fresh food and do eat a lot of convenience prepared food. You could start with a basic diet of more fresh food and less packaged food. good luck
I'm 47 and have found by trial and error what works for me - I'm now a healthy, ideal weight so I chose what I eat based on experience and what I enjoy
It's apparently not so simple for many though, hence the constant struggles and anxiety
Ok so I want to take responsibilty for myself - I'm not a sheep. Ive heard that I mustnt skip breakfast. Ive heard that I mustnt eat after 9pm, Ive heard that my metabolism will slow down if I eat enough calories. What is true? What is wrong with guidance? The information IS available - type diet into google and a billion websites will come up - all trying to sell us something!0 -
why? and the U.S. government does tell americans what they "should" eat. I dont agree with my government regarding food choices but why do we need anyone telling us these things? we have brains and the information is available. What we need to do is take responsibility for ourselves and quit waitng to be told anything. We are not sheep.
And also, I looked at your diary. You dont eat much fresh food and do eat a lot of convenience prepared food. You could start with a basic diet of more fresh food and less packaged food. good luck
I'm 47 and have found by trial and error what works for me - I'm now a healthy, ideal weight so I chose what I eat based on experience and what I enjoy
It's apparently not so simple for many though, hence the constant struggles and anxiety
Ok so I want to take responsibilty for myself - I'm not a sheep. Ive heard that I mustnt skip breakfast. Ive heard that I mustnt eat after 9pm, Ive heard that my metabolism will slow down if I eat enough calories. What is true? What is wrong with guidance? The information IS available - type diet into google and a billion websites will come up - all trying to sell us something!
Your last sentence sums up the entire problem, my friend. The most important word.....sell.0 -
The one thing I often hear is "Everyone is different", well no, we're all almost exactly the same chemically and biologically. Scientists didn't stop searching for a cure for leprosy because "we're all different'!
I applaud the sentiment but...
Abstract
"A 50 year male developed a discoid lesion of leprosy on the face. Inspite of Dapsone 100 mg/day and Rifampicin 600 mgm per day the disease spread to both sides of the face and forehead. It became worse with Prednisolone and Clofazimine. It cleared completely when Sultamicillin was added to the latter. This seems to be the first patient of leprosy to be treated with this combination and reported"
We didn't stop searching for a cure for leprosy, no, but we have found that one size does not fit all, and adaptions are needed for individuals (even with leprosy) Why should it be any different with dieting?
There will always be exceptions to the rules and too many variables in the human physiology/lifestyle to assume that what works with one person will always work for others.
It would be fantastic to have a definitive answer to "How to lose weight" given to us by a trusted source. But until "they" find it we will just have to keep experimenting with our diets and excercise until we find something that works for us. If that means trying some of the things that others feel has helped them, then I will try them, if they don't work for me I will discard them. After all what have I got to lose? Oh yeah another 30 pounds or so. 0 -
Your last sentence sums up the entire problem, my friend. The most important word.....sell.
Yep - we're fighting against a multi billion dollar industry0 -
It would be fantastic to have a definitive answer to "How to lose weight" given to us by a trusted source.
this answer is everywhere.........eat less calories than you need
that simple answer is always there but gets hidden with gimmicks and convoluted nonsense.0 -
If there was one set of rules that worked for everybody then no one would be overweight, thus the confusion, because what works for one person as far as weight loss is concerned, those not necessarily mean it will work for another0
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It would be fantastic to have a definitive answer to "How to lose weight" given to us by a trusted source.
this answer is everywhere.........eat less calories than you need
that simple answer is always there but gets hidden with gimmicks and convoluted nonsense.
Exactly. Whole unprocessed foods. Exercise.0 -
It would be fantastic to have a definitive answer to "How to lose weight" given to us by a trusted source.
this answer is everywhere.........eat less calories than you need
that simple answer is always there but gets hidden with gimmicks and convoluted nonsense.
Jeez, people. If they give us a definitive answer - how will they make all the money?????0 -
Why are all those questions so important to you anyway? Eat less and exercise. Experiment with meal timing and see what works for you. If you don't trust artificial sweeteners, don't use them. Don't make everything so hard.0
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Or Twinkies.0
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It would be fantastic to have a definitive answer to "How to lose weight" given to us by a trusted source.
this answer is everywhere.........eat less calories than you need
that simple answer is always there but gets hidden with gimmicks and convoluted nonsense.
Jeez, people. If they give us a definitive answer - how will they make all the money?????
By giving people what they want to hear: how to lose weight quickly and easily.0 -
Eh, your health? A year or two? Your figure? Money?If that means trying some of the things that others feel has helped them, then I will try them, if they don't work for me I will discard them. After all what have I got to lose?
There was a post on here the other day that was along the lines of "I drink hot liquids to melt the fat away and I've lost 140lbs"
We simply shouldn't be guessing about such an important issue these days! We don't say "I'm knocking down my internal asbesdos wall, but a friend of mine said I would be ok if I breathed through my nose because it worked for them" No - we get told outright by health organisations what we should and should not do!0 -
1. There are a lot of variables involved and, no, not everyone's body reacts exactly the same. We also don't have one of those little scanner things that Dr McCoy used on Star Trek to wave over your body and tell you instantly what's exactly going on. Bodies are very complex, hence so are the questions.
2. There is a lot of definitive science out there that answers most of your questions. It's not that the answers are unknown. It's that they are unpopular.
3. The human capacity for self-BS is almost unlimited. No amount of definitive knowledge can change that.0 -
Why are all those questions so important to you anyway? Eat less and exercise. Experiment with meal timing and see what works for you. If you don't trust artificial sweeteners, don't use them. Don't make everything so hard.
The questions arent that important to me - only out of interest. But my weight isn't spoiling my life, my weight isn't a big issue. The questions ARE that important to many though - hence the thousands of messages about them. Obese people shouldnt need to experiment to see what works for them, there should be answers, its a science!0 -
All of the questions you asked can likely be found out through light-moderate intensive research via the internet, in fact i could answer a few of them just from the very light research i myself do
the info is out there, you just have to know where and how to look for it
you are not a child, use your critical thinking skills and learn how to look for these things
i refuse to be the grade school teacher just spoon feeding you information and expecting you to learn from that, not going to happen
i myself lost a decent chunk of weight, and i am dam proud to say that. I am even prouder to say that i didnt have one person telling me what i needed to do and holding my hand through the entire process. i did it by researching the internet as much as i could and occasionally going to a friend or two that are reputable sources for a little help
not trying to come off as a jerk here but you have to understand how annoying it is to see stuff like this where you are basically not making any attempts to find these things out for yourself, you just want them given to you in an envelope titled "magic secrets to weightloss" , i'll be damned if that ever happens
i wish you all the luck in the world in whatever your goals happen to be, but please do not expect it to be easy. it will be a little tough, it will challenge you, but by the end, you will look back and have a huge smile on your face knowing you have come this far0 -
The problem is, as a society, we have not learned delayed gratification. We want everything RIGHT NOW. Well, unfortunately weight loss is not one of the things that money can buy. It takes dedication to a plan and time. Something we are not used to having to do. Well, it works - if you are honest, dedicated and have patience. Any other quick fix, is just that.0
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I guess what baffles me is why it's so hard for some people. You have to eat less (quantity and fewer calorie-dense foods) and get some activity. That's seriously it. If you do those things, you won't be obese. Certain bodies might be more apt to be under or overweight but you won't weigh 350 lbs. after a year of being sensible.
Stop thinking about it/talking about it and start DOING IT.
It's that simple.
No one is genetically inclined to be morbidly obese.
It's when we start assigning arbitrary numbers from arbitrary metrics that we get ourselves into trouble: "I weighed 102 lbs. when I was 14 years old in 9th grade! I should weigh that now as a grown-@$$ 38-yr. old mother of four! I'm gonna lose 80 lbs. in a month!"
...
It's about being real with yourself and not expecting to look like Miranda Kerr after photoshop.
Just sayin'.
:ohwell:0 -
3. The human capacity for self-BS is almost unlimited. No amount of definitive knowledge can change that.
Yes to some extent. But 50 years ago many smokers were unaware of the dangers of smoking, whereas most smokers these days are aware of the dangers but chose to regardless. Not many (although some) dispute the evidence and BS themselves into thinking that smoking is actually not harmful at all
Smoking evidence is now pretty much accepted as facts, and we are advised accordingly. Food and diet evidence is not, and we are not!0 -
It would be fantastic to have a definitive answer to "How to lose weight" given to us by a trusted source.
this answer is everywhere.........eat less calories than you need
that simple answer is always there but gets hidden with gimmicks and convoluted nonsense.
This is true but until I joined MFP I was one of those people who thought there was a "magic" formula or pill and was seduced by the gimmicks and nonsense. Then I started listening to people like yourself on the forums and tried what you suggested and hey presto it is working for me. So I have found "my" definitive answer and I sincerely thank you and others here on MFP who have pointed me in the right direction and given me support. I hope the OP can find his definitive answer as well :flowerforyou:0 -
Eh, your health? A year or two? Your figure? Money?If that means trying some of the things that others feel has helped them, then I will try them, if they don't work for me I will discard them. After all what have I got to lose?
There was a post on here the other day that was along the lines of "I drink hot liquids to melt the fat away and I've lost 140lbs"
We simply shouldn't be guessing about such an important issue these days! We don't say "I'm knocking down my internal asbesdos wall, but a friend of mine said I would be ok if I breathed through my nose because it worked for them" No - we get told outright by health organisations what we should and should not do!
I am not talking about fad diets. I am not completely stupid, well not any more, :laugh: but there are things that people have suggested on the forums that have helped me, like lifting heavy, and watching my macros more closely. Healthy suggestions are always welcome.0
This discussion has been closed.
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