Where is the science!
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I hear you, Wonderob! You echoed my frustration.0
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Question; why is it not getting “easier to diet” as our society evolves?
Answer; because we are becoming more and more into self gratification (food) and convenience (lazy).0 -
OP, do you have any idea of how ridiculously complex the human body is, particularly when it's viewed in the context of its individual environment. The variables are practically infinite.
Of course - but I refer back to one of the questions that I see on MFP daily
Does eating breakfast boost your metabolism? There is sure to be a definitive answer that would apply to virtually everyone would there not?
Yet opinions are split. If it doesn't then the sceptic in me says that the multi billion dollar breakfast food industry are behind this falsification
If it does then I want to see a bit of scientific proof
Why would it apply to everyone equally? Is your diet exactly the same as mine? Do you sleep the same amount of time as I do? Is your hormone balance the same as mine
It applies to (almost) everybody equally because in this instance, the factors that you stated are irrelavent. Breakfast will or will not boost your metabolism bcause our bodies will work the same way regardless of our diet and sleeping patterns.0 -
I'm not trying to be a downer, because I've struggled with my weight my entire life.
But your idea that there is a "definitive" answer means that you fundamentally don't understand the scientific process. Anyone who works in the science will tell you that almost everything you've learned as 'fact' (even about things like physics) are our best guesses based on extensive experiments that have been done. But that by no means precludes us from discovering new things about the universe. [See: the discovery of sub-atomic particles]
So, there is no "answer". Gather your own knowledge about what works for you in your life and stick to it!0 -
Sooo... watch what you eat and exercise. Bam! you cracked the code.
Not really - whilst watching what you eat and exercsing are likely to result in satisfactory weight loss. Other factors such as meal times, amount of meals, minimum daily calories, different macros etc COULD make a bit of difference and might make the weight loss quicker or healthier or give better longevity etc
To me those 'additional factors are interesting and I would like to know about them, but ultimately as I don't have a major weight problem, not critical
Whereas to lots of people who do have a problem, these could be very important0 -
Sooo... watch what you eat and exercise. Bam! you cracked the code.
Not really - whilst watching what you eat and exercsing are likely to result in satisfactory weight loss. Other factors such as meal times, amount of meals, minimum daily calories, different macros etc COULD make a bit of difference and might make the weight loss quicker or healthier or give better longevity etc
To me those 'additional factors are interesting and I would like to know about them, but ultimately as I don't have a major weight problem, not critical
Whereas to lots of people who do have a problem, these could be very important
Absofrackinglutely
And some people who are outwardly skinny but are having undiagnosed excess internal fat and metabolic issues could also benefit.
Sort it out from the lowest level has to be the plan 0 -
I'm not trying to be a downer, because I've struggled with my weight my entire life.
But your idea that there is a "definitive" answer means that you fundamentally don't understand the scientific process. Anyone who works in the science will tell you that almost everything you've learned as 'fact' (even about things like physics) are our best guesses based on extensive experiments that have been done. But that by no means precludes us from discovering new things about the universe. [See: the discovery of sub-atomic particles]
So, there is no "answer". Gather your own knowledge about what works for you in your life and stick to it!
It's not for me, I don't suffer with my weight to any great degree. I'm wondering what society could do to help those that do
I disagree that there is not a definitive answer to some of these quandaries. The scientific process is pretty robust so can tell us what affect alchol can have on our bodies, what smoking will do, what too much sugar will do to our teeth.... it can also tell us whether or not eating late at night will hinder weight loss
My point is that I suspect this information is lost amongst the myriad of money making dieting info out there0 -
Of course - but I refer back to one of the questions that I see on MFP daily
Does eating breakfast boost your metabolism? There is sure to be a definitive answer that would apply to virtually everyone would there not?
The definitive answer for everyone is "yes". Eating boosts metabolism so eating breakfast boosts your metabolism. It doesn't "kick start" it because in order to start something, that something has to have stopped. And metabolism only stops when you are dead, making it difficult to eat breakfast.
The amount of the boost is not significant and depends more on what you eat than on when you eat.0 -
We need an indisputable list - not from Jenny Craig, not from Jillian Michaels, not from Shaun T, not from Tony Horton - they all have their own agenda!
who do think should provide you with this list? I really dont understand your point unless maybe you've had a few pints
It was a long post so I understand why you didn't read it all
"we need to be told these things once and for all by an impartial, unbiased organisation with the sole agenda of telling the facts!"
Governments, World Health Organisation, United Nations, Universities, National Health Service ....
First off, I'm a scientist (not a food scientist). The shameful secret of scientists (not within the community, we all know it) but to "lay" people is that we don't know all the answers either!! I myself have published papers that have contradicted all the other published work on my particular subject. That is why you hear "chocolate is good for you today" on the news and tomorrow it might be bad. Food science is constantly researching and learning, but they absolutely do not have all the answers. Food is far more complicated than you might think!
Second, I'm not trying to be a conspiracy theorist here it's not my thing, but I can tell you that the government, WHO, NIH....the people in power gain $$ by "us" trying different diets and gimmicks. It's also lobbied by the people who run places like McD, Entemann's, Lay's potato chips, Jenny Craig, etc.....
What does this boil down to???? First off you'll NEVER get any government official telling you anything other than what is on the food pyramid (and lobbyists have vied for spots for their particular food group on the pyramid) and EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT!!!! LOL!!!
The answer is do your own research. Find out what works FOR YOU. MFP calculations are a starting point but they aren't the final answer. They too need to be adjusted for your own body and, as you well know, they don't tell you WHAT to eat. Read, read, read. Michael Pollan's books are excellent - they aren't on "dieting" but they are on the human "diet". Read The China Study - once again, not on "dieting" but compares long-term regional differences in eating culture in Asian countries versus health and longevity - most people on this site would be shocked at the results. Don't just read the 3 sentance news blips in Prevention or on the Today show and take it on face value - they handpick the pieces of the studies that they want you to know.
Good luck!!!0 -
.the reason people still debate these things is because they are prepared to believe anything without doing their own investigations.
Here are some links if anyone wants to start out
Meal Frequency
http://www.leangains.com/2011/04/critique-of-issn-position-stand-on-meal.html
God herein lies the problem!
i am NOT lazy and I am prepared to do the research! But how do we know what is true?
The first article that you link is a very interesting article about how one seemingly informed and reliable source (a nutritional consultant, magazine writer and personal trainer) is completely opposing another seemingly informed and reliable source (The International Society of Sports Nutrition) with regard to meal frequency!
You see my problem here!0 -
I dunno - like I said, it seems you've found what is "true." You just want definitive studies about body chemistry and metabolism?0
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The definitive answer for everyone is "yes". Eating boosts metabolism so eating breakfast boosts your metabolism.
No YOUR definitive answer is yes
Somebody elses on here is No
I don't know, my wife doesn't know, half the people on MFP don't know
Thats my point. If breakfast DOES boost your metabolism, then it's a standard fact that virtually everyone agrees upon and there can no longer be any debate over it such as for example ... erm, obesity increases your chance of diabetes - truth is that it isn't a standard fact yet as there is still plenty of debate over it0 -
You have a monthly budget:
$2000 for basic living expenses that can't be changed or reduced
$5000 for porn, strippers, hookers, and blow
$2 for a pack of gum once a week
What you're doing is quibbling over your gum allowance.0 -
I dunno - like I said, it seems you've found what is "true." You just want definitive studies about body chemistry and metabolism?
I don't know what's true - I change my mind depending on who or what sounds most likely at the time!
Definitive studies must already have been done Im sure0 -
Lovely analogy rtalencar85! :-)0
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You have a monthly budget:
$2000 for basic living expenses that can't be changed or reduced
$5000 for porn, strippers, hookers, and blow
$2 for a pack of gum once a week
What you're doing is quibbling over your gum allowance.
That's relavent if my $2 gum allowance over time has a significant impact upon my $5000 essentials allowance
i.e If it turns out that by chnaging my gum buying habits I could have got myself a much better $5001 hooker than the skanky $5000 hooker I was paying for, I would be right miffed
Just as if I had eaten breakfast I could maybe have eaten an extra cake every day and still lost the same amount of weight0 -
That's relavent if my $2 gum allowance over time has a significant impact upon my $5000 essentials allowance
i.e If it turns out that by chnaging my gum buying habits I could have got myself a much better $5001 hooker than the skanky $5000 hooker I was paying for, I would be right miffed
Just as if I had eaten breakfast I could maybe have eaten an extra cake every day and still lost the same amount of weight
Either you missed my point entirely or you're really reaching...0 -
That's relavent if my $2 gum allowance over time has a significant impact upon my $5000 essentials allowance
i.e If it turns out that by chnaging my gum buying habits I could have got myself a much better $5001 hooker than the skanky $5000 hooker I was paying for, I would be right miffed
Just as if I had eaten breakfast I could maybe have eaten an extra cake every day and still lost the same amount of weight
Either you missed my point entirely or you're really reaching...
Well I took it to mean that the main principles of weight loss are 99% of the battle whilst, whilst meal timings, metabolism boosts, fat burning zones etc make up the other 1%,0 -
Your last sentence sums up the entire problem, my friend. The most important word.....sell.
Yep - we're fighting against a multi billion dollar industry
And sadly, science sells too. It's best to just tune into your body, we've made it this far in the grand sscheme of things, don't doubt yourself. If it doesn't feel right, it's probably not.0 -
The definitive answer for everyone is "yes". Eating boosts metabolism so eating breakfast boosts your metabolism.
No YOUR definitive answer is yes
Somebody elses on here is No
I don't know, my wife doesn't know, half the people on MFP don't know
Thats my point. If breakfast DOES boost your metabolism, then it's a standard fact that virtually everyone agrees upon and there can no longer be any debate over it such as for example ... erm, obesity increases your chance of diabetes - truth is that it isn't a standard fact yet as there is still plenty of debate over it
You can 'debate' a fact all you want but it doesn't change the fact. It just makes the person debating against the fact wrong. Theories and hypothoses are debatable. Facts are facts.0 -
The definitive answer for everyone is "yes". Eating boosts metabolism so eating breakfast boosts your metabolism.
No YOUR definitive answer is yes
Somebody elses on here is No
I don't know, my wife doesn't know, half the people on MFP don't know
Thats my point. If breakfast DOES boost your metabolism, then it's a standard fact that virtually everyone agrees upon and there can no longer be any debate over it such as for example ... erm, obesity increases your chance of diabetes - truth is that it isn't a standard fact yet as there is still plenty of debate over it
You're asking the wrong question--or I should say you are not asking the question precisely enough, which is part of the problem.
The answer is: breakfast does "boost metabolism". (yes)
However, the real question (s) is/are: Does breakfast boost metabolism more than any other meal (no)
Does breakfast boost metabolism disproportionately higher for the rest of the day (no)
Does breakfast provide a feeling of satiety and does it contribute to more controlled eating the rest of the day (likely, but not necessarily for everyone, and there are probably psychological as well as physical issues involved).
So for the question of "does exercise boost metabolism?", the seeming non-definitive answer to the question is not lack of science or lack of facts, it's lack of context.0 -
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The definitive answer for everyone is "yes". Eating boosts metabolism so eating breakfast boosts your metabolism.
No YOUR definitive answer is yes
Somebody elses on here is No
I don't know, my wife doesn't know, half the people on MFP don't know
Thats my point. If breakfast DOES boost your metabolism, then it's a standard fact that virtually everyone agrees upon and there can no longer be any debate over it such as for example ... erm, obesity increases your chance of diabetes - truth is that it isn't a standard fact yet as there is still plenty of debate over it
You can 'debate' a fact all you want but it doesn't change the fact. It just makes the person debating against the fact wrong. Theories and hypothoses are debatable. Facts are facts.
But a fact isn't a fact because you said so. Tell me how you you perceive this to be a fact rather than a hypothesis?0 -
Well I took it to mean that the main principles of weight loss are 99% of the battle whilst, whilst meal timings, metabolism boosts, fat burning zones etc make up the other 1%,
Yes, so it's a waste of effort to focus on that 1% when you don't have the 99% in order. It's only once you get the 99% in order that it's worth worrying about that remaining 1%.
You mentioned doing this for people who struggle with weight. Maybe there is an ideal frequency interval or specific workout zone they should be shooting for that'll increase their efficiency by 0.000001%. When they're having trouble just getting a handle on eating right and working out regularly, do you really think that tiny efficiency boost is worth worrying about?
Your counter about it adding up over time really misses the mark. If the meat of the issue isn't handled, not maximizing some minute detail will NEVER matter.0 -
Good article and could be the end ...... if the article wasn't next to a big link saying 'Go to store'
How does one know if this is the definitive truth or yet another way in which the author is trying to make money - we don't0 -
Firstly, everyone has an agenda, Scientists need to publish results to secure funding. Funding agencies need results to satisfy their backers. Secondly, no science is cut-and-dry. Especially sciences that involve human subjects. There are so many unknown variables, that it is often impossible to isolate single cause-and-effect relationships. All results are open to interpretation, and will be interpreted differently by different parties.0
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Well I took it to mean that the main principles of weight loss are 99% of the battle whilst, whilst meal timings, metabolism boosts, fat burning zones etc make up the other 1%,
Yes, so it's a waste of effort to focus on that 1% when you don't have the 99% in order. It's only once you get the 99% in order that it's worth worrying about that remaining 1%.
And I fear that my motivation for this thread is not for the greater good of mankind, but because I have reached the 99% mark and I'm just looking to tune the 1%
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You'd think fat people would have figured out a long time ago that one size does NOT fit all. Expecting there to be some holy grail of dieting that always works for everyone is the nutritional equivalent of the one size fits all robe. It may work for most, but just can't work for everyone.
Rather than copy it, if you care for why even "science" is not going to fix your diet issues, read this:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/cordianet
Ultimately the truth is simple, eat fewer calories than you burn and get some exercise to increase your fitness. That said, the devil's in the details. What may be the best way for you to consume fewer calories than you burn may not work for me. And why should it? We didn't get fat for the same reasons, why should losing the fat be any different?0 -
Sure our bodies operate on scientific principles, and you can always say that "science is science" and that it should be consistent across the board. Just as science is science, math is math. And if you have an equation (the equation being our body) then it will only be equal for everyone if ALL the variables going into the equation are the same.
And no two people have identical variables. Everyone is different (sound familiar?)
So what are the variables... well obviously diet, age, gender play large roles. But even more specifically, body chemistry, hormone levels, basically any chemical component in your body that can differ from another person is a variable that can affect the overall "fitness" equation.
That's why there is usually no one "right" answer that applies to everyone when it comes to specific health/fitness questions.0 -
I believe a fitting line for this discussion is
"Just because you believe something, doesn't make it true"0
This discussion has been closed.
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