Where is the science!

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Replies

  • Victoria2448
    Victoria2448 Posts: 559 Member
    We need an indisputable list - not from Jenny Craig, not from Jillian Michaels, not from Shaun T, not from Tony Horton - they all have their own agenda!

    who do think should provide you with this list? I really dont understand your point unless maybe you've had a few pints

    It was a long post so I understand why you didn't read it all




    "we need to be told these things once and for all by an impartial, unbiased organisation with the sole agenda of telling the facts!"

    Governments, World Health Organisation, United Nations, Universities, National Health Service ....

    All those organizations have mass agendas too.

    I would believe someone who is in shape, trying to help others get healthy. Many of your questions do not even need an answer...artifcial sweeteners? It's artificial, of course they are not good for you.

    Getting healthy and in shape is not as difficult as so many people believe. It's just that people do not want to do the things that will help them reach their goals...it's easy to do, and easy NOT to do.
  • MissKTMc
    MissKTMc Posts: 49
    I am a sport and exercise scientist so regardless of what some of you may think I do know what I'm talking about! However, don't take my word for it, go and use academic search engines like sciencedirect.com and pubmed.gov and educate yourselves!! All these debates are merely lazy, all the research is there for you to read, just read it!!
  • flechero
    flechero Posts: 260 Member
    Science?

    You want one stop, definitive weight loss info from the very people that said saccharin and a bunch of other chemicals were the safe and healthy- a great alternative to sugar... only to find out a few years later that they were a cause of cancers That's only the tip of the iceberg. I'd prefer that big government work on things like their budget and not so much with what I eat.

    The answer is the same as it was 10, 100, 1000 years ago... eat less, move more- what's changed is that WE all seem to want a magic bullet to drop weight instantly.
  • MissKTMc
    MissKTMc Posts: 49

    Sugar is sugar, tell me metabolically how sucrose in fruit is different from sucrose from a a sugar packet?


    The benefits in eating fruit far outway any disadvantages of the sugar content - hence good for you. Nutritionally beneficial

    There are no benefits to eating refined sugar so you get only disadvantages - hence bad for you. Empty calories

    Its fructose that's in fruit not sucrose!! That's the difference! They are metabolised differently and surplus of each is stored and utilised differently! Sucrose (which breaks down to glucose) is stored as fat!! Fructose remains in the blood stream and is used by mitochondria to form energy!!
  • Wonderob
    Wonderob Posts: 1,372 Member

    Sugar is sugar, tell me metabolically how sucrose in fruit is different from sucrose from a a sugar packet?


    The benefits in eating fruit far outway any disadvantages of the sugar content - hence good for you. Nutritionally beneficial

    There are no benefits to eating refined sugar so you get only disadvantages - hence bad for you. Empty calories

    Way to avoid the question there champ

    I thought it was rhetorical - It was clear by your stance that there is no difference. i'll state it if makes it easier for you "There is no difference"

    I am puzzled though - why the confrontation? Why the patronising tone?

    I'm making no claims to be an expert, just having a thirst for knowledge. Ive asked a number of times now for you to enlighten me. Take sat fats away for a moment as I'm aware that they are difficult to avoid in a balanced diet. So refined sugar - is there ANY advantages to eating it?
  • justal313
    justal313 Posts: 1,375 Member
    It would be fantastic to have a definitive answer to "How to lose weight" given to us by a trusted source.

    this answer is everywhere.........eat less calories than you need

    that simple answer is always there but gets hidden with gimmicks and convoluted nonsense.

    But the big question is how??? For me it's eating 3 meals and 3 snacks. I'm never hungry, well seldom. Because I never let myself get hungry and I try to eat leaner meats, whole grains, plenty of fibre and protein. Oh and I've apparently become a gym rat.
  • Giantess
    Giantess Posts: 213 Member
    Quote from the You Are Not Different article:
    Invariably, when you get an honest assessment of the person’s food intake (just accept that it can be done right now), their estimates are way off from reality. Studies show that people may under (or overestimate) their true caloric intake by up to 50%. Basically, unless they’ve done it for a while, most people are simply horrible at estimating how much food they are actually eating. Same thing for exercise, people tend to vastly overestimate how many calories they’ve burned.


    It is precisely because of this I'm a freak about weighing my food and not eating back all my calories. Sometimes MFP tells me to eat 1300 more than I end up eating, but I just can't. I'm full, and I think my exercise cals burned are WAY overestimated.

    I still don't lose weight.

    I'm not an idiot, I did factor in the stuff he talks about, and I'm not losing. So what -is- the reason? It's questions like this that cause the plethora of questions on forums.

    No doubt I'm still massively under- and over-estimating in all directions. But without, as one poster put it, one of those Dr. McCoy tricorders, I won't know which.
  • ArroganceInStep
    ArroganceInStep Posts: 6,239 Member
    Its fructose that's in fruit not sucrose!! That's the difference! They are metabolised differently and surplus of each is stored and utilised differently! Sucrose (which breaks down to glucose) is stored as fat!! Fructose remains in the blood stream and is used by mitochondria to form energy!!

    lolwut
  • BigGuy47
    BigGuy47 Posts: 1,768 Member
    "I've lost 50lbs by not eating after 3pm"
    People that read this and believe it are dumb.
    There was a post on here the other day that was along the lines of "I drink hot liquids to melt the fat away and I've lost 140lbs"
    People that read this and believe it are dumb.

    No matter how hard you try - you can't fix stupid.
    ... I'm fit and at a healthy weight

    But there are hundreds of millions who are not and I think they could be helped without having to self experiment
    Clearly you're smart enough to figure out something that works for you.

    Are hundreds of millions of people really that stupid or do they just not have the desire to put down the cookies and start exercising?

    Ok so I want to take responsibilty for myself - I'm not a sheep.
    Agreed. The hundreds of millions that are in dire need of help need to take responsibility for themselves. No amount of government intervention or readily available information will help these people until they decide to help themselves.
  • mfpcopine
    mfpcopine Posts: 3,093 Member

    The one thing I often hear is "Everyone is different", well no, we're all almost exactly the same chemically and biologically. Scientists didn't stop searching for a cure for leprosy because "we're all different'!


    Human beings are indeed very similar, but some populations have genetic variations or are exposed to environmental factors (including lifestyle) that cause them to develop diseases and conditions that other groups don't get.

    In general, I agree with your skepticism, especially your questions about the need to eat breakfast and the ease of going into starvation mode.
  • davidsgirl145
    davidsgirl145 Posts: 162 Member
    All Sugar is not created equal.

    I eat Fruit and tons of it. Since I started eating a lot of it, I feel great and my blood work is superb! My cholestoral has dropped. I rarely eat refined sugar...in fact, I rarely want any. My cravings are 99 % gone. Fruit is Good! You can't tell me that a beautiful organic apple picked from a tree is the same as a bowl of fruit loops EVER!!!
  • Shrinking_Moody
    Shrinking_Moody Posts: 270 Member
    Dieting has always been hard. The basic concept of calories in/calories out was fine when all there was to eat was healthy, clean food and we worked hard every day - usually doing physical labor. Now we have really bad food choices. Everything is too easy and processed. Fast food is on every corner. Soft drinks are prevalent. Obesity is rampant. Dieting is hard. Someone every few minutes comes up with another gimic that will "help you lose weight for good". I don't buy it. I believe until we get off our collective a$$es and decide to eat "real food" we are doomed to failure. Or at least to short bursts of success followed by failure. Just my opinion. :smile:

    This. This makes sense.
  • Wonderob
    Wonderob Posts: 1,372 Member

    Sugar is sugar, tell me metabolically how sucrose in fruit is different from sucrose from a a sugar packet?


    The benefits in eating fruit far outway any disadvantages of the sugar content - hence good for you. Nutritionally beneficial

    There are no benefits to eating refined sugar so you get only disadvantages - hence bad for you. Empty calories

    Its fructose that's in fruit not sucrose!! That's the difference! They are metabolised differently and surplus of each is stored and utilised differently! Sucrose (which breaks down to glucose) is stored as fat!! Fructose remains in the blood stream and is used by mitochondria to form energy!!

    Maybe you can help me - I've always believed that refined sugar (sucrose) has no nutricianal benefit to my body, hence bad for me (empty caories?)

    It seems I'm wrong, happy to stand corrected as I have a sweet tooth!
  • mfpcopine
    mfpcopine Posts: 3,093 Member
    "I've lost 50lbs by not eating after 3pm"

    Are hundreds of millions of people really that stupid or do they just not have the desire to put down the cookies and start exercising?



    Once people have enough education, self-awareness and resources to lose weight the reason they don't is usually not an intellectual problem; it's an emotional or behavioral one.

    BTW, I think that eating only in a prescribed window helps. That's automatically a period in which you aren't going to over-indulge.
  • Acg67
    Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member

    Sugar is sugar, tell me metabolically how sucrose in fruit is different from sucrose from a a sugar packet?


    The benefits in eating fruit far outway any disadvantages of the sugar content - hence good for you. Nutritionally beneficial

    There are no benefits to eating refined sugar so you get only disadvantages - hence bad for you. Empty calories

    Way to avoid the question there champ

    I thought it was rhetorical - It was clear by your stance that there is no difference. i'll state it if makes it easier for you "There is no difference"

    I am puzzled though - why the confrontation? Why the patronising tone?

    I'm making no claims to be an expert, just having a thirst for knowledge. Ive asked a number of times now for you to enlighten me. Take sat fats away for a moment as I'm aware that they are difficult to avoid in a balanced diet. So refined sugar - is there ANY advantages to eating it?

    You claimed refined sugar and sat fats were bad for you in any dosage, what does that have to do with having an advantage to eating them?
  • ArroganceInStep
    ArroganceInStep Posts: 6,239 Member
    Quote from the You Are Not Different article:
    Invariably, when you get an honest assessment of the person’s food intake (just accept that it can be done right now), their estimates are way off from reality. Studies show that people may under (or overestimate) their true caloric intake by up to 50%. Basically, unless they’ve done it for a while, most people are simply horrible at estimating how much food they are actually eating. Same thing for exercise, people tend to vastly overestimate how many calories they’ve burned.


    It is precisely because of this I'm a freak about weighing my food and not eating back all my calories. Sometimes MFP tells me to eat 1300 more than I end up eating, but I just can't. I'm full, and I think my exercise cals burned are WAY overestimated.

    I still don't lose weight.

    I'm not an idiot, I did factor in the stuff he talks about, and I'm not losing. So what -is- the reason? It's questions like this that cause the plethora of questions on forums.

    No doubt I'm still massively under- and over-estimating in all directions. But without, as one poster put it, one of those Dr. McCoy tricorders, I won't know which.

    From: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adjusting-the-diet.html

    Average Weekly Fat Loss
    Less than 1 lb/week - Reduce Calories by 10%
    1-1.5 lbs/week - No Change
    2+ lbs/week - Increase Calories by 10% if there is a performance loss
  • LesterBlackstone
    LesterBlackstone Posts: 291 Member


    2. There is a lot of definitive science out there that answers most of your questions. It's not that the answers are unknown. It's that they are unpopular.

    3. The human capacity for self-BS is almost unlimited. No amount of definitive knowledge can change that.

    This right here
  • davidsgirl145
    davidsgirl145 Posts: 162 Member
    Science?

    You want one stop, definitive weight loss info from the very people that said saccharin and a bunch of other chemicals were the safe and healthy- a great alternative to sugar... only to find out a few years later that they were a cause of cancers That's only the tip of the iceberg. I'd prefer that big government work on things like their budget and not so much with what I eat.

    The answer is the same as it was 10, 100, 1000 years ago... eat less, move more- what's changed is that WE all seem to want a magic bullet to drop weight instantly.

    I Really agree with you!
  • Hendrix7
    Hendrix7 Posts: 1,903 Member
    All of the questions you asked can likely be found out through light-moderate intensive research via the internet, in fact i could answer a few of them just from the very light research i myself do

    the info is out there, you just have to know where and how to look for it

    you are not a child, use your critical thinking skills and learn how to look for these things

    i refuse to be the grade school teacher just spoon feeding you information and expecting you to learn from that, not going to happen

    i myself lost a decent chunk of weight, and i am dam proud to say that. I am even prouder to say that i didnt have one person telling me what i needed to do and holding my hand through the entire process. i did it by researching the internet as much as i could and occasionally going to a friend or two that are reputable sources for a little help

    not trying to come off as a jerk here but you have to understand how annoying it is to see stuff like this where you are basically not making any attempts to find these things out for yourself, you just want them given to you in an envelope titled "magic secrets to weightloss" , i'll be damned if that ever happens

    i wish you all the luck in the world in whatever your goals happen to be, but please do not expect it to be easy. it will be a little tough, it will challenge you, but by the end, you will look back and have a huge smile on your face knowing you have come this far

    What this guy said....the reason people still debate these things is because they are prepared to believe anything without doing their own investigations.

    What could have been a fairly educational thread has turned into the usual back and forth.

    Here are some links if anyone wants to start out

    Meal Frequency
    http://www.leangains.com/2011/04/critique-of-issn-position-stand-on-meal.html

    Carbs at night
    http://www.simplyshredded.com/carbs-at-night-fat-loss-killer-or-imaginary-boogeyman.html

    Breakfast related (by the way, anyone here want to expand on WTF they are even talking about when they say "kick start your metabolism" LOL.. this one a bit more anecdotal but still a good read
    http://www.leangains.com/2012/06/why-does-breakfast-make-me-hungry.html

    Clean/Dirty eating....
    http://www.wannabebig.com/diet-and-nutrition/the-dirt-on-clean-eating/
  • Wonderob
    Wonderob Posts: 1,372 Member
    You claimed refined sugar and sat fats were bad for you in any dosage, what does that have to do with having an advantage to eating them?

    It wasn't a claim, it was an assumption

    The assumption was that if there is zero benefit to eating something such as refined sugar, there only has to be a tiny disadvantage to make it bad for you. Tooth decay for example

    You still havent helped me correct myself though

    As far as I'm aware there are disadvantages to eating refined sugar, tooth decay, empty calories etc so I have assumed that as there are no advantages, it must be bad.

    So
    a) Are there any disadvantages in your opinion in eating refined sugar
    b) Are there any advantages?

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