Cardio makes you fat: "Women: Running into Trouble"

meerkat70

I guess it wasn't obvious that many people doing just cardio are usually trying to lose weight too. Of course it didn't cause them to be fat, eating too much did that, but it isn't helping them be less fat either in the long run either.

Everyone seems to be missing that point and wants to say "Look at this marathon winner and how great they look!" I doubt the marathon winner was ever obese.

Sorry honey, but who claimed this?

Did you really miss all the "what about this marathon runner? Yeah, they look really fat don't they??" posts? It as illogical and fallacious an argument as the "running is evil" crew you refer to. Honestly, I don't recall a lot of "running is evil" being expressed. I may have missed it and if so, my apologies.

I just think it really gets stupid when the arguments break down along the lines of "cardio is king and weight lifters would be out of breath walking across the room" and "running is useless and you'll only get skinny fat". Logic and all available data indicate both are usefull in a fitness and health strategy. If I understand your posts correctly, you are in agreement with that statement. If you, or anyone else, prefers to focus more on running or biking that strength training as your priority or someone else chooses to focus more on weight lifting, that is there preference. Power to them!

no, I didn't miss those points. But they weren't making the claim pink kitten woman was trying to counter - that the winning marathon runner had once been obese.... It was a straw man.

(And I agree with the rest of your post. :-) I get irritated immensely by all the people who've never attempted more than a 2 minute jog for the bus going on and on about how dreadful running is ... The ridiculous hyperbole from those who seem to feel that the only things worth doing are lifting and HIIT get on my nerves and bring out the very grumpy git in me.)

meerkat70

And I'm not sure if attempting to be condescending on the internet makes you feel better in real life, but it isn't necessary. You can save "honey" for your spouse and children.

.... said the pink kitten lady....

I'm not *attempting* to be condescending. But as you're clearly a stranger to logic and reason, I'm guessing the distinction might pass you by just as much as the correlation =/= causality one did.

Anyway, done here. Some people are just ineducable.

mmapags

Meerkat 70..... first of all, you go girl! It's all about getting healthy and sounds like you're doing something right! And second, your last comment.....obviously you're doing what works for you, so keep it up!

I guess I'm not a "runner" since I'm doing the C25K, just a jogging "slacker" who's getting heathy,losing weight, feeling amazing, and enjoying the time my hubby and I get to spend together "running"~ lol!

You are both doing great! You are taking the steps and improving health!! You are lapping eveyone still on the couch!

victoria4321

I just want to throw out that I think running/jogging are great for you as well. I'm not saying it a bad thing to do, especially if you enjoy it. People just have to realize that its not the only thing you should do.

A few years ago I was only running, not long distances, just 4 miles at most. I was at a healthy weight but I didn't look good, to my standards. At the same weight I am now my body fat % is much lower and I'm a size 2. When I was 135lbs before and only running I was a size 6 (I still have the same clothes from then before anyone blames vanity sizing).

Another thing I noticed is when I ran a 5k then it took me just over 33 minutes to finish. I don't run often now but I went out for a timed run a few weeks ago and my 5k was down to 28 minutes. I'm definitely not trying to win races or anything but I think its a pretty big deal that I got such great results when I'm actually eating a lot more now and not even running much.

ashwaeks

If you do both Strength Training and Cardio, you'll be golden. And it's true. If you do the same things day in and day out you'll stop losing weight because your body stops reacting and become used to it. Change it up. Do a class that incorporates both or try something new at least once every couple of weeks .

victoria4321

I guess it wasn't obvious that many people doing just cardio are usually trying to lose weight too. Of course it didn't cause them to be fat, eating too much did that, but it isn't helping them be less fat either in the long run either.

Everyone seems to be missing that point and wants to say "Look at this marathon winner and how great they look!" I doubt the marathon winner was ever obese.

Sorry honey, but who claimed this?

Did you really miss all the "what about this marathon runner? Yeah, they look really fat don't they??" posts? It as illogical and fallacious an argument as the "running is evil" crew you refer to. Honestly, I don't recall a lot of "running is evil" being expressed. I may have missed it and if so, my apologies.

I just think it really gets stupid when the arguments break down along the lines of "cardio is king and weight lifters would be out of breath walking across the room" and "running is useless and you'll only get skinny fat". Logic and all available data indicate both are usefull in a fitness and health strategy. If I understand your posts correctly, you are in agreement with that statement. If you, or anyone else, prefers to focus more on running or biking that strength training as your priority or someone else chooses to focus more on weight lifting, that is there preference. Power to them!

no, I didn't miss those points. But they weren't making the claim pink kitten woman was trying to counter - that the winning marathon runner had once been obese.... It was a straw man.

(And I agree with the rest of your post. :-) I get irritated immensely by all the people who've never attempted more than a 2 minute jog for the bus going on and on about how dreadful running is ... The ridiculous hyperbole from those who seem to feel that the only things worth doing are lifting and HIIT get on my nerves and bring out the very grumpy git in me.)

I didn't see anyone claim that lifting and HIIT are the only thing worth doing either? Everyone seemed to agree that cardio was good as long as its not all that you're doing.

agnash

I agree...kind of make me disappointed...thinking your out their doing the right thing then u come across something like this...i felt so engergetic n pumped this moring cause i hit the tracks ever single morning..then i saw this article...ughh!! But it does make me wonder...cause i was losing weight faster at first n now it has kind of slowed...I have been switching up..guess i just gotta keep switching!!!

Jynus

cris the man said (if you actually read his post) that he does a 20 minute jog, interspersed with other activity. this, combined with the risible comments about stride length does, i'm afraid, amount to 'no, i'm not actually a runner'. i don't see how his paragraph about all the lifting he does, or his acknowledgement of an occasional '20 minute jog' allows an alternate interpretation.

I didn't say that. That 20min was my warmup sweetheart.... I did real running afterwards. Play ultimate sometime. You're just purposely being ignorant, and it's really not appreciated.. And you still havn't answered my question, how is the hundreds of hours I spent running for sports not considered running in your eyes?

TexanThom

"My sisters are both runners and look amazing-- I hope to be able to run with them one day."

This came from her profile....WTH?

ironanimal

Bumping to read later at some point.

RuthieCass

Hello

I read through quickly and may have missed something but I believe the only logical answer is that the woman running is not eating properly. I have worked as a personal trainer and am a HE/ PE Teacher. I use to do the caliper tests on all my clients and get a log of their eating habitsfor a week prior to training. EVERYTHING goes i the log. For an accurate response on this blog we would need her weight, height , body fat, age, resting HR, and exercise HR. The lack of these variables will cause random statements about your friend and inacurate quesses about why she is not toning up.

Jonathan

I don't think we need all that when you can go to the gym and visually see the results. I can only go by what happens at my gym and others that I've been to. It looks like 85% of the people glued to cardio machines are all overweight or flabby. If all the running and elliptical-ing was working so well, they should look just as fit as anyone else who's getting a real work out in.

Correlation. Causation. Learn the difference. Obviously, overweight people use cardio machines because they are overweight, not the other way around.

In addition, there are some unfounded assumptions you're making: 1) Not everyone that does a lot of cardio does it on elliptical machines inside a gym (I could easily go look at those running outside or playing cardio-heavy sports and make an opposite claim) 2) Your gym isn't necessarily representative of every gym everywhere 3) You are the arbitrator of "real workouts."

I've been to plenty of other gyms and I also noted that I'm basing it on my gym and others that I've been to. I never said everyone but I do think its most people still. I'm referring to people using the cardio methods I mentioned as strictly a work out. You can't say that the average person is doing hill sprints and intervals. Many people who jog for just fitness just stick to the same formula.

Obviously there are exceptions when it comes to sports and what not. There are also exceptions when it comes to competitive runners or people who run as a sport (lets not forget that runners who actually run to get faster don't just run. I've never seen a decent track team that doesn't have a strict strength building program built into their running program). The article is basically talking about the herd of people in rows on the cardio machines at the gym who never step foot in the weight room. Those people are very often overfat. Its not because they're eating too much too. Its because steady state cardio is catabolic. When you only do steady state cardio your body will try to get better at just that. The best way to do this is to lose body mass, which includes fat and muscle.

And thanks I think being the arbitrator of real workouts fits me quite well.

Sure, many people "train like wimps," as Lyle McDonald has said. But many runners do gradually increase their distance and speed, do "speed work" (another word for sprinting), do circuits or intervals, and even do strength training (shocking I know). Obviously, people that never increase their speed or distance are not going to get the maximum benefit of their work out. Kinda like people who do weight training and never (or even rarely) adds weights to their bars. Compare apples to apples. Someone half-a**ing either of these workouts is not going to increase his/her level of fitness.

And I don't think anyone disagreeing with the premise of the article is saying runners or anyone else will not get benefits from weight lifting. That's a straw man argument. The point is not that you have to choose one or the other; the point is that running/cardio does not make you fat.

As for your statement that "running is catabolic." Being on a diet is catabolic. Moving around when you're not exercising is catabolic. Having sex is catabolic. It's kinda hard to lose weight (and do anything fun) when you avoid all things catabolic. For someone with a lot of excess fat, his/her primary goal is going to be ridding themselves of excess weight- s/he is not going to be overly concerned with preserving every bit of muscle. If you are already somewhat lean and trying to get leaner, then you would be focused on preserving the last of your muscle mass.

ETA: Another comment on your "catabolic statement." Low intensity cardio proportionally burns more fat than other exercises. So if I was only concerned with losing muscle, then that would be the best exercise.

Kara_xxx

There are so many logical gaps in this thread, I could drive a fleet of buses through it. The only poster from that 'don't run' camp (and I recognise I'm oversimplifying her argument) who seems to have a modicum of sense and any experience to support her pov is Kara.

erm... thanks... I think... :ohwell:

BTW I'd never say "don't run"... running is great!! I love to run and when you've got a really good run it feels almost like there's nothing comparable. It's time for head space, great to get out into the fresh air, I love running woodland trails where I don't see many people. It's a great great sport, and I wouldn't want to turn anyone off running... at any distance or at any pace.

I think my point was just that if steady state runs is all you do, you'll not see a huge return for the hours you're putting in, and there are other ways of training which will give you "more bang for your buck".

But that all depends what your goals are.

If you don't want to look like Jillian Michaels but it's more about the actual challenge of running a mara or whatever, hey go for it!! The feeling of achievement will be tremendous!! And of course you'll get fitter and your endurance will be fab!

But if, in terms of appearance, you want to get the kind of tone that a lot of women on this forum are striving for, then IMHO that can't be achieved by steady state cardio alone, without some HIIT and some strength training.

GaidenJade

That 'article', and I use the term loosely. Was full of bitter self important drivel.

Okay, the logic of the article was that running and cardio have no health effects in terms of losing weight. Okay, so burning calories doesn't help you lose weight? That's news to me.

Problem is, there is some truth inside of his ego rant. Unless you constantly up the intensity and challenge your body, it will get used to the activity. Hence, less calories are burned and you don't lose, and may even gain.

Even better for you is to work in strength training and other activities, to train your body in different ways to keep you losing and getting stronger. But as many have pointed out, you don't have to. It's all what works for you. Instead of telling her friend to stop running, she should have encouraged her to change it up, or run faster or longer. Maybe even help her change her diet. Something healthy. It isn't all in the number people, its in the attitude. I feel sorry for that friend, that she has to put up with that "person". (again I use that term loosely)

I don't even know why I bothered to comment on this except self important egomaniacs tick me off. Seriously.

Without the ego, bitterness and major bad attitude. The only thing to take from that 'article' is, Push your body, mix up your workouts. Oh and get rid of negative people in your life, they will only drag you down.

victoria4321

Low intensity cardio proportionally burns more fat than other exercises. So if I was only concerned with losing muscle, then that would be the best exercise.

Of course if you have all the time in the world to spend doing it that is. I guess most people aren't concerned with efficiency and saving time. I don't weigh enough to get much benefit out of a 30-45min low intensity cardio session.

I agree that many things are catabolic. I was speaking from my point of view as I don't have much to lose. I'm mostly trying to lose fat for purely vanity reasons so I try to avoid losing muscle mass while I lose weight. I can't really speak for someone who has a lot to lose. I do think running is a great start for someone with a lot of weight on them but once they get down to a normal weight its not as effective anymore.

tappae

One day, I almost got knifed by a meth head at the park. I had been running in the neighborhood, just finished my cool down and was stretching in the shade when he approached me. He was convinced that I had just prank-called his lady friend and claimed that he recognized my voice. It turns out that he had seen me turn around right in front of his house at the same time as the phone call was happening. I explained to him that I was cooling down after my run and that I had just felt like turning around there and that I didn't even have a phone on me. He said, "you don't look like you run."

At that point, I actually had lost some weight and fat. I was only running (no strength training) and not paying close attention to my diet and I was losing fat. Of course, if you used me as an example of what running will make you look like, no one would want to run.

I would also like to say something about the sprinter/marathoner comparison: size does not equal strength. I've known a couple of masai and just because they look super thin doesn't mean that they aren't really strong.

And Jynus, running is a sport. Ultimate frisbee is a different sport, that includes some amount of running. Having experience in a sport like that does not also automatically give you experience in the sport of running.

victoria4321

And Jynus, running is a sport. Ultimate frisbee is a different sport, that includes some amount of running. Having experience in a sport like that does not also automatically give you experience in the sport of running.

For some reason I feel like Jynus was referring to some sort of running heavy sport. I thought more along the lines of soccer, football, etc. I don't think someone would claim to run then be talking about ultimate frisbee or table tennis lol

tappae

And Jynus, running is a sport. Ultimate frisbee is a different sport, that includes some amount of running. Having experience in a sport like that does not also automatically give you experience in the sport of running.

For some reason I feel like Jynus was referring to some sort of running heavy sport. I thought more along the lines of soccer, football, etc. I don't think someone would claim to run then be talking about ultimate frisbee or table tennis lol

He did say that he played some soccer, but that his main sport was ultimate frisbee. It looks like he was competitive at it, and took it to a pretty high level. He also said that he had to take a walking break on a <2 mile run.

BTW, I'm impressed by your 5K time improvement. What do you feel like the ratio was between mental and physical improvement? I find that running faster has a large mental element to it.

DavPul

UNbump.

What? I can't UNbump a thread so it's so far down the queue that I never see the title again? That's a shame. My twitter app has a ZIP option where I can take certain hashtags or users and block their threads from my feed for a while. MFP needs a ZIP button. These threads go on and on with no one getting closer to understanding. The runners start accusing the lifters of saying something that they didn't say, and then the whole thing spirals downward.

ZIP

victoria4321

BTW, I'm impressed by your 5K time improvement. What do you feel like the ratio was between mental and physical improvement? I find that running faster has a large mental element to it.

I'm not too sure if the mental part had much to do with it but its possible. I ran both times as a leisurely thing but I keep time to see how long my workouts are and just as a general benchmark for myself. I feel like I can run faster if I was really trying to also. For the past few years I've only been running for health and fitness since I don't have anything to compete for.

I think the physical improvement was probably a significant factor mainly. I found that my legs didn't tire as easily when i ran. I still get in other cardio conditioning and shorter runs of around 800m as a warm up regularly.

scottb81

The article says that cardio trains the body to retain fat.

Quote from the article: "Training at a consistently plus-65 percent heart rate adapts the body to save as much body fat as possible. That’s right, after regular training, fat cells stop releasing fat during moderate-intensity activities like they once did."

That statement alone is so stupid that anyone reading it lowers their intelligence by a full standard deviation. The rest of the article is just as bad.

That's why experienced runners continue to comment on this thread.

If you want to lift that's great. But don't try and discourage people that like to run with articles by people that don't have a clue.