Cardio makes you fat: "Women: Running into Trouble"

Di3012

UNbump.

What? I can't UNbump a thread so it's so far down the queue that I never see the title again? That's a shame. My twitter app has a ZIP option where I can take certain hashtags or users and block their threads from my feed for a while. MFP needs a ZIP button. These threads go on and on with no one getting closer to understanding. The runners start accusing the lifters of saying something that they didn't say, and then the whole thing spirals downward.

ZIP

Well it's quite simple really, just DON'T click on this thread anymore, that way you don't have to try and shift the blame onto MFP for you not being able to control your own curiosity regarding this thread.

scottb81

If anyone wants to know the real truth about the physiology of running then read "Lore of Running" by Dr. Timothy Noakes. http://www.amazon.com/Lore-Running-Edition-Timothy-Noakes/dp/0873229592

In the meantime, avoid reading most of what is written about running on bodybuilding sites

meerkat70

The article says that cardio trains the body to retain fat.

Quote from the article: "Training at a consistently plus-65 percent heart rate adapts the body to save as much body fat as possible. That’s right, after regular training, fat cells stop releasing fat during moderate-intensity activities like they once did."

That statement alone is so stupid that anyone reading it lowers their intelligence by a full standard deviation. The rest of the article is just as bad.

That's why experienced runners continue to comment on this thread.

If you want to lift that's great. But don't try and discourage people that like to run with articles by people that don't have a clue.

You're forgetting the contribution by the frisbee champion....

victoria4321

The article says that cardio trains the body to retain fat.

Quote from the article: "Training at a consistently plus-65 percent heart rate adapts the body to save as much body fat as possible. That’s right, after regular training, fat cells stop releasing fat during moderate-intensity activities like they once did."

That statement alone is so stupid that anyone reading it lowers their intelligence by a full standard deviation. The rest of the article is just as bad.

That's why experienced runners continue to comment on this thread.

If you want to lift that's great. But don't try and discourage people that like to run with articles by people that don't have a clue.

You're forgetting the contribution by the frisbee champion....

Right lets insult someones workout now. Maybe some ultimate frisbee would have helped deter some of your past weight gain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAyEti-_lR8

So are you going to insinuate it isn't real exercise compared to your leisurely jog again?

meerkat70

Right lets insult someones workout now. Maybe some ultimate frisbee would have helped deter some of your past weight gain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAyEti-_lR8

So are you going to insinuate it isn't real exercise compared to your leisurely jog again?

Oh dear, there we go with that logic issue again. I didn't diss his workout. I challenged his capacity to comment on running, when he doesn't, himself, run. do try to keep up, hun.

I'm going for a nice 13 mile 'jog' tomorrow. Fancy joining me, to test out your theory?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGt5H3_ygdQ

victoria4321

Right lets insult someones workout now. Maybe some ultimate frisbee would have helped deter some of your past weight gain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAyEti-_lR8

So are you going to insinuate it isn't real exercise compared to your leisurely jog again?

Oh dear, there we go with that logic issue again. I didn't diss his workout. I challenged his capacity to comment on running, when he doesn't, himself, run. do try to keep up, hun.

I'm going for a nice 13 mile 'jog' tomorrow. Fancy joining me, to test out your theory?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGt5H3_ygdQ

I'll pass. You probably wouldn't be able to keep up and I'd be left running alone, sadly.

How is running in another sport not running? You don't think soccer players run either?

Jynus

The article says that cardio trains the body to retain fat.

Quote from the article: "Training at a consistently plus-65 percent heart rate adapts the body to save as much body fat as possible. That’s right, after regular training, fat cells stop releasing fat during moderate-intensity activities like they once did."

That statement alone is so stupid that anyone reading it lowers their intelligence by a full standard deviation. The rest of the article is just as bad.

That's why experienced runners continue to comment on this thread.

If you want to lift that's great. But don't try and discourage people that like to run with articles by people that don't have a clue.

You're forgetting the contribution by the frisbee champion....

Still waiting sweetheart for a reply.

As for the person you replied to. Read up on layne norten, goes into this more than a few times. I don't know what else I can say on the subject. There has yet to be any study that I'm aware of that shows either cardio being beyond minimally effective than doing diet only, or cardio being at least equal to doing resistance training for fatloss. By all means, try and dig one up. But they don't exist. I've looked.

So you dismiss his theory, fine. But I don't see how you can't look at that and not recognize it every time you go to the gym. It's painfully obvious by looking at the regulars training there over time. Hell, look in the general help or this sub forum of all the people eating hardly any calories in capacity while doing cardio only that are all stalled after having some initial success. Eating 1200 calories a day or less. They are basically having to starve themselves to continue to see results. As the body has just adapted.

gxm17

lol - wow. I have NO idea what to say. Ha.

As far as someone's T3 turning back to normal for the Cardio Queens - yeah, explain that to someone with Hashimoto's which is an auto-immune disease which is the causation of hypothyroidism in those individuals.

That's true, but you should be taking thyroid hormone replacements to get your levels back to normal. Perpetually low thyroid hormone levels is insanely bad for your health.

I have a friend with Hashimoto's who started on an IF+resistance training regimen, and he's been getting great results with that, if that helps.

Yes. Someone with Hashimoto's knows that they need to take thyroid pills. Every day. The point was that we can not change our levels through exercise alone. Yes, exercise is great medicine for people with Hashi's, but it is only part of the program.

Jynus

Right lets insult someones workout now. Maybe some ultimate frisbee would have helped deter some of your past weight gain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAyEti-_lR8

So are you going to insinuate it isn't real exercise compared to your leisurely jog again?

Oh dear, there we go with that logic issue again. I didn't diss his workout. I challenged his capacity to comment on running, when he doesn't, himself, run. do try to keep up, hun.

I'm going for a nice 13 mile 'jog' tomorrow. Fancy joining me, to test out your theory?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGt5H3_ygdQ

I'll pass. You probably wouldn't be able to keep up and I'd be left running alone, sadly.

How is running in another sport not running? You don't think soccer players run either?

I'm not quite getting the logic too. I guess the weekend tournys where I spend about 8 hours of field time don't count either... Even though I'm running for a good chunk of it. the elitist attitude from runners boggles the mind sometime.

meerkat70

The article says that cardio trains the body to retain fat.

Quote from the article: "Training at a consistently plus-65 percent heart rate adapts the body to save as much body fat as possible. That’s right, after regular training, fat cells stop releasing fat during moderate-intensity activities like they once did."

That statement alone is so stupid that anyone reading it lowers their intelligence by a full standard deviation. The rest of the article is just as bad.

That's why experienced runners continue to comment on this thread.

If you want to lift that's great. But don't try and discourage people that like to run with articles by people that don't have a clue.

You're forgetting the contribution by the frisbee champion....

Still waiting sweetheart for a reply.

As for the person you replied to. Read up on layne norten, goes into this more than a few times. I don't know what else I can say on the subject. There has yet to be any study that I'm aware of that shows either cardio being beyond minimally effective than doing diet only, or cardio being at least equal to doing resistance training for fatloss. By all means, try and dig one up. But they don't exist. I've looked.

So you dismiss his theory, fine. But I don't see how you can't look at that and not recognize it every time you go to the gym. It's painfully obvious by looking at the regulars training there over time.

Sorry, waiting for a reply to what? Your epic essay on how you don't actually run? I already replied to that...

The capacity of people on this thread to actually follow the cut and thrust of basic debate is taking on legendary proportions.

The reference to Layne Norton (sp) in this post is amusing. But I don't think it's quite the kind of *study* that scott was referring to.

Anyway, entertaining thought this battle of wits has been, I must go and do something more productive. If you get bored, try tossing a ball of wool for the kitten-lady. She likes that.

xPOOKiEx

bump for later

meerkat70

Right lets insult someones workout now. Maybe some ultimate frisbee would have helped deter some of your past weight gain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAyEti-_lR8

So are you going to insinuate it isn't real exercise compared to your leisurely jog again?

Oh dear, there we go with that logic issue again. I didn't diss his workout. I challenged his capacity to comment on running, when he doesn't, himself, run. do try to keep up, hun.

I'm going for a nice 13 mile 'jog' tomorrow. Fancy joining me, to test out your theory?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGt5H3_ygdQ

I'll pass. You probably wouldn't be able to keep up and I'd be left running alone, sadly.

How is running in another sport not running? You don't think soccer players run either?

I'm not quite getting the logic too. I guess the weekend tournys where I spend about 8 hours of field time don't count either... Even though I'm running for a good chunk of it. the elitist attitude from runners boggles the mind sometime.

It counts plenty. Who said otherwise? It just isn't *the same*. Is that really a very, very difficult concept? I'm not making this a competition. I'm simply challenging *your* understanding of long distance running. I asked how much experience of it your had. You continue to offer nothing that suggests you do have any experience of long distance running.

I have little doubt you are more athletic than I am. That's not the issue is it?

And I'm sorry, but it wasn't you I was inviting along, it was pink-kitty-lady. I couldn't cope with your general awesomeness up close and personal. I'd go all weak at the knees and wouldn't be able to run.

Obviously.

Creativeballance

Cardio isn't the problem. It's the fork and the mouth that's the problem.

+1

scottb81

I went to the gym the other day and saw a fat guy lifting weights. So, it is obvious that lifting weights causes the body to store fat.

Logic 101.

tappae

How is running in another sport not running? You don't think soccer players run either?

I'm going to take a stab at this. I've played my fair share of sports that involve running. I've also spent some time running, which is also a sport. At the top levels of association football (soccer), distance covered is actually one of the stats that they keep track of. The players average about 10K per game, with the more hard-core midfielders (Park Ji-Sung) doing maybe 12K. Now, not all of this is running, obviously. Some of it is walking, some is jogging, some is jumping, some is sliding, some is sprinting, etc. Athletes that play football professionally also spend a lot of time training, during which they do a fair bit of running and also spend a lot of time in the gym. During a 90 minute game, though, they're only covering about 6 miles, which a lot of people could do at a brisk walk. On an "easy" run, I will cover half again that distance in the same time. Now, that doesn't mean that I'm better than a pro-footballer. What it does mean is that an individual that doesn't train for football, but just plays it on the weekends doesn't actually run as much as someone that spends time running throughout the week. They have less experience with it, because they're playing a different sport. Someone that only runs while playing soccer has about as much right to speak as an expert on running as someone that only plays frisbee for fun has to speak on the topic of ultimate frisbee.

Jynus

Sorry, waiting for a reply to what? Your epic essay on how you don't actually run? I already replied to that...

The capacity of people on this thread to actually follow the cut and thrust of basic debate is taking on legendary proportions.

The reference to Layne Norton (sp) in this post is amusing. But I don't think it's quite the kind of *study* that scott was referring to.

Anyway, entertaining thought this battle of wits has been, I must go and do something more productive. If you get bored, try tossing a ball of wool for the kitten-lady. She likes that.

No, you replied to it afterwards sorta. I asked multiple times why hundreds of hours of running for sports does not count as running. Somehow it's not the same according to you. Yet both use the same muscle fibers and energy systems. So I'm still not quite understanding the difference. But oh well.

We reference Layne because he's a formost authority on Earth of how the body works. If he says something, take note. Thats all.

tappae

It's painfully obvious by looking at the regulars training there over time. Hell, look in the general help or this sub forum of all the people eating hardly any calories in capacity while doing cardio only that are all stalled after having some initial success. Eating 1200 calories a day or less. They are basically having to starve themselves to continue to see results. As the body has just adapted.

I think this is the problem that people are having with your arguments. You're looking at a particular situation in which people are using a failed strategy. This strategy is a combination of nutrition and exercise. They might start getting results if they ate better or if they mixed up their cardio a little. But you're using them as a prime example of the evils of cardio, which is insulting to people that are eating correctly and doing cardio correctly. It'd be like looking at someone using the tiniest weights possible while talking to their friend and drinking some starbucks and concluding that weightlifting makes you weak and soft.

Jynus

I'm going to take a stab at this. I've played my fair share of sports that involve running. I've also spent some time running, which is also a sport. At the top levels of association football (soccer), distance covered is actually one of the stats that they keep track of. The players average about 10K per game, with the more hard-core midfielders (Park Ji-Sung) doing maybe 12K. Now, not all of this is running, obviously. Some of it is walking, some is jogging, some is jumping, some is sliding, some is sprinting, etc. Athletes that play football professionally also spend a lot of time training, during which they do a fair bit of running and also spend a lot of time in the gym. During a 90 minute game, though, they're only covering about 6 miles, which a lot of people could do at a brisk walk. On an "easy" run, I will cover half again that distance in the same time. Now, that doesn't mean that I'm better than a pro-footballer. What it does mean is that an individual that doesn't train for football, but just plays it on the weekends doesn't actually run as much as someone that spends time running throughout the week. They have less experience with it, because they're playing a different sport. Someone that only runs while playing soccer has about as much right to speak as an expert on running as someone that only plays frisbee for fun has to speak on the topic of ultimate frisbee.

Good stats. An ulti game would be comparable to soccer I would imagine in terms of distance. Prob a bit lower on average though. At the upper levels of ulti there is no breaks, it's none stop running while play is going unlike soccer where it's more positional when you're moving. But unlike soccer, ulti players play about half the points in a 90min game.

Here's the thing I'm not understanding. I never claimed to be an expert on running, but I do claim to have done it enough to have an opinion on it. Am I wrong? Is there some set distance I need to run weekly in order to be able to talk about running? And if so, what is it? What number of miles would I need to log, before I am considered runner enough to be a runner.

Jynus

It's painfully obvious by looking at the regulars training there over time. Hell, look in the general help or this sub forum of all the people eating hardly any calories in capacity while doing cardio only that are all stalled after having some initial success. Eating 1200 calories a day or less. They are basically having to starve themselves to continue to see results. As the body has just adapted.

I think this is the problem that people are having with your arguments. You're looking at a particular situation in which people are using a failed strategy. This strategy is a combination of nutrition and exercise. They might start getting results if they ate better or if they mixed up their cardio a little. But you're using them as a prime example of the evils of cardio, which is insulting to people that are eating correctly and doing cardio correctly. It'd be like looking at someone using the tiniest weights possible while talking to their friend and drinking some starbucks and concluding that weightlifting makes you weak and soft.

Whats the difference between wrong cardio and proper mixed up cardio?

Whats the difference between a macro balanced 1200 calorie meal thats bad vs one thats correct?

tappae

Whats the difference between wrong cardio and proper mixed up cardio?

Whats the difference between a macro balanced 1200 calorie meal thats bad vs one thats correct?

This is your example we're talking about, not mine. You're going off about people that only do lots of cardio and are starving themselves at the same time as if they are the exemplar of cardiovascular exercise. In order to properly function with endurance training you have to fuel your body with plenty of carbs. In order to prevent losing lean mass you have to get plenty of protein. Good training programs will also include speed workouts, hill running, intervals, etc. I don't know what you mean by a macro balanced 1200 calorie meal, but it sounds pretty good about now.