Cardio makes you fat: "Women: Running into Trouble"

mmapags

FTR I LOVE running and fully support it, but it is only a piece of the fitness puzzle. Strength training is equally important. I'm fully realistic, though, about the limitations of cardio-only programs.

What a sensible, balanced and reasonable perspective. I'll have you know that we'll not have this around here! If it should continue, you will be reported to the proper authorities forthwith! :flowerforyou:

edited to add: I think the article is total BS but I also think so of the ridiculously indignant posturing in this thread is also!

half_moon

My opinion? (OP here.)

This person is a trainer, and trainers don't make money if you can lose weight on the pavement.

My two cents.

That being said, I think cardio and weight training should both be included, if nothing else than for sanity. I can't do the same crap on the elliptical every day. I have to switch it up and push myself and do mind games, then get on the machines and do some crunches. I can't imagine zombie-ing out on one cardio machine a day. That being said, I only do about 30-40 minutes of cardio a day, so I'm barely in the 20 hr/week zone. :P

Jynus

My opinion? (OP here.)

This person is a trainer, and trainers don't make money if you can lose weight on the pavement.

yes, it makes FARRR more sense this trainer is lying in a public forum where his reputation would be at stake in the attempt to make a few bucks... And not like runners need trainers or anything anyway, right?

wackyfunster

Alan Aragon and Lyle McDonald both say that cardio is pretty much pointless for normal weight loss scenarios, and they are two of the most knowledgeable fitness experts on the planet. You can accomplish the exact same thing with a larger caloric deficit, and get the same cardiovascular benefits from metabolic weight training, along with superior preservation of lean body mass.

If you want to do cardio for endurance or sport-specific training, then awesome.
If you wan to do LISS in conjunction with a strength training regiment for weight loss, then props to you.
If you want to use cardio as your primary exercise for weight loss, then enjoy losing tons of lean body mass and lowering your metabolism. (I'm sure that one will get me flamed, but hey, the truth hurts sometimes)

Jynus

I always want to know why the people here always take it to the extremes?

There's the Strength Training Only! people and the Cardio Only! people.

So what you can bench 300+ lbs, but can't run to the corner without gasping for breath...
You're still not fit.

I would be VERY surprised is anyone whos in a weight class benching that much would possibly be out of breath at doing that. Shockingly enough, submaximal effort and power/speed training is rather cardio intensive. Get your bodyweight on your shoulders and squat till failure, your heartrate will be near max and you'll be sweating hard.

For a personal story, havn't done cardio in 2 years, ran a 3km last week with no trouble cardiowise. I can bench close to 300lbs. Was I supposed to be out of breath and near death? Didn't really phase me. Problem was more one of ichyness by far and not one of I'm utterly gassed... Coulda easily ran more.

Basically what I'm saying here is if what you were saying is true, you would be right. But basically you're full of it because strong people who don't do cardio, will by default have a decent base cardio endurance that will be far better than most any sedentary person. Basically you're ignorant as to what strength training actually does.

obwize

Why do I feel like Jynus is the author? :laugh:

^^Thinking this.

MargotAllen

tl;dr

madamepsychosis

Oh for heaven's sake, if you want to do cardio, do cardio. If you want to lift weights, lift weights. If you want to do both, do both. Can we please just leave it at that and stop insinuating people are working out the wrong way?

Zangpakto

Meh, I am losing weight training for a marathon, an ultra marathon actually.... Have lost 60 pounds so far....

Soooo yea, I call massive BS.... As for 20hrs a week? No one ever tell them of things called interval sessions? Or quality training? Cause my god, if you can run 20hrs a week, you shouldn't have any problem running a damn marathon or more!

I can run a marathon happily within 6hrs, I need to cut down to under 5hrs to qualify for my ultra next year and am doing good...

However I train 2 x 1hr easy sessions so 7-10km, 1 x 5-10km time trial run, 1 fartlek (2 if no TT that week), and 1 medium distance 14km+ and 1 long distance run 20km+....

Haven't been doing it lately because of work, but starting again next week when help comes back so I get time for myself again... Currently working from 8am till 10pm and even 1-2am on occasions....

But seriously, if it makes you fat, then how did I lose 60 pounds so far with running/cycling? So no, I call absolute BS, if you aren't losing weight, either your diet is incorrect or you just are NOT pushing yourself!

aurinje

To be fair, to lose weight you need to keep your heart rate pretty much as high as possible for as long as possible. Part of the problem with consistently doing a lot of a particular type of cardio, for example running, is that your heart rate will slow as you get fitter and more efficient at running, so I can see why you would plateau.

The best thing to do is what many people have said here which is don't just run, change it up, if you aren't out of breath and/or feeling the effort you're putting in, then you won't lose too much weight.

Either way, cardio is good, even if you don't lose as much weight as you want, there is nothing bad about improving heart rate and lung capacity.

BerryH

I was an obese marathon runner. That was nothing to do with steady-state cardio knocking my hormones out of whack, it was eating too much and thinking I didn't need to worry what or how much because, ya know, I'd run for four hours today.

There is a law of diminishing returns doing the same steady-state cardio, but it never stops burning more calories than just sitting on the sofa.

Besides, once they've got past the basic stages of learning to run, most runners move on to several differently targeted sessions each week, say hills, intervals, fartlek and increasingly long runs. Far from steady state, each will push your body in different ways. And as we're quite knowledgeable about fitness in general, few of us shun resistance training altogether, if not enough to build significant muscle then at least enough to prevent injury.

driaxx

Okay, I haven't read this whole thread. But I have an opinion on this after reading New Rules of Lifting for Women.

Firstly, I lost 12kg and I can say I owe that mostly to cardio/running. However, now that I'm trying to maintain I've realised that my metabolism has become SO slow. Now I'm trying to fix it with weights. In NROLFW, it says that running is a "efficient" exercise, which is actually a negative thing and makes your body become used to using up calories with running and the more you run, the more you have to run.

With weights, you're always challenging yourself and boosting your metabolism through muscle growth, therefore your body burns more with you doing less and eating more.

Seems like my mothers "eat less, move more" mantra was flawed and I should've read this book to begin with.

Cardio works, but weights last.

Sneakypeek1972

Well I know from my own personal experience I have lost over 80lbs from my largest doing cardio work.... I just don't do the same stuff every single day, I do different things different days. I know that your body adjusts to stuff, so I do different things, and I know for me personally, it has helped me dramatically. I was the fat girl that could only walk and try to jog for maybe a minute, and now I can actually just stay jogging the whole time I'm on it, and I'm still 243 pounds! So even if it didn't continue to help me lose weight like it has been doing, my stamina is definitely up, and I can now keep up with my daughter and I'm not exhausted doing everyday things. So in my opinion, doing the cardio is benefitting me. I didn't get in this to only lose weight, I also did it to be more active in my daughter's life, it's working for me.

I agree with this ^^^ i started MFP at 252.2lbs im now 234.0 and its all from cardio type exercises, i change mine day from day aswell, i couldnt imagine going on a treadmill or Xtrainer for more than 20 minutes at a time yet, and i cant even jog/run at this time either , but i will do !!

GoTakizawa

:huh: Hmmm I guess the Marine Corp has it all wrong huh.

skinnnyfat123

I always want to know why the people here always take it to the extremes?

There's the Strength Training Only! people and the Cardio Only! people.

So what you can bench 300+ lbs, but can't run to the corner without gasping for breath...
You're still not fit.

When you can bench over 300 you don't need to run away from anything, everything else runs away from you.,

Leamac83

Didnt even read it through. Complete BS!

There is always someone looking for something else to blame for their obesity.

Eat less. Move more.

Emilit_uk

Didn't read all the posts, this is obviously a popular thread

Anyway, I'm training for a marathon and as you can see I'm haauuuuuge.....oh, and also, squishy

A warning to all, running makes you overweight, it's right up there with fried food and too much TV, practice with extreme caution....

IronmanPanda

I always want to know why the people here always take it to the extremes?

There's the Strength Training Only! people and the Cardio Only! people.

So what you can bench 300+ lbs, but can't run to the corner without gasping for breath...
You're still not fit.

I would be VERY surprised is anyone whos in a weight class benching that much would possibly be out of breath at doing that. Shockingly enough, submaximal effort and power/speed training is rather cardio intensive. Get your bodyweight on your shoulders and squat till failure, your heartrate will be near max and you'll be sweating hard.

For a personal story, havn't done cardio in 2 years, ran a 3km last week with no trouble cardiowise. I can bench close to 300lbs. Was I supposed to be out of breath and near death? Didn't really phase me. Problem was more one of ichyness by far and not one of I'm utterly gassed... Coulda easily ran more.

Basically what I'm saying here is if what you were saying is true, you would be right. But basically you're full of it because strong people who don't do cardio, will by default have a decent base cardio endurance that will be far better than most any sedentary person. Basically you're ignorant as to what strength training actually does.

Nope.
3 km is what you call cardio endurance? :laugh:
I used to only lift and hated cardio with a passion when I was younger(I was repping 285, no idea what my 1rm was because I never had a spotter.).
I was strong as an ox but couldn't run to save my life. You're ignorant if you think squatting will get you fit enough to run a marathon.
It wasn't until I added cardio that I am now what I consider fit. There is a reason why all PAT's include running.

So go ahead and run that marathon on only squat training and we'll see how far you go.

inside_lap

1. No hypothesis
2 No test subject-S. Notice how I add on the "s."
3. No longevity testing
4. No statistical data
5. Findings have not been replicated elsewhere by different researchers

#thisargumentisinvalid

I get the feeling you didn't read the article. Everything he says is cited.

Actually, research is quite frequently miscited. I encourage everyone to go back to read original research articles and learn how to do so with a distriguishing eye. This is what leads to all the 1200 calorie and starvation mode debate on here. People don't go back and read the original articles and understand what it means. Instead people read citations of citations of citations and end up COMPLETELY misunderstanding the originial studies. I think the physiologist below made a good argument as well...

First off, I'm a physiologist. The author has his/her facts straight, but the logic is wrong. It's true that your body will adapt to your exercise regimen so that over time you will burn fewer calories in order to do the same amount of work. Likewise, as you lose weight, you will burn fewer calories when you do the same exercise as when you were heavier. Your body is really, really good at helping you perform in times of calorie shortage. Most people become markedly more efficient after only 7 or so workouts.

If you keep your eating habits the same, this means you will plateau. You might even gain weight if you become very efficient at your workout, but still eat the same number of calories.

But it's not the cardio itself that is the problem. Cardio is SO good for you. Plus, who wants to hang out with someone who has to huff and puff their way through everything?

The lack of variety in exercise routines is the problem. Every few weeks, switch things up a bit. That's all.

Kybelle132

bump

BrianSharpe

The article is totally true and has science to back it up. Cardio is a waste of time except for short bursts of activity. The human body was not designed for long runs or treadmill runs like a herd of zebras. It was designed for quick bursts of emergency activity and lifting. I've noticed that runners have no muscle and look so weak as do bicyclists. They're not healthy looking. It's resistance training that builds the body and garners it free of unhealthy fat. But there's no way to get people to believe that. They have been brainwashed by doctors and others. Even the king of cardio, Cooper, admits he was wrong.

I've got a news flash for you.

Humans evolved to run long distances chasing down prey.....

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/23/science/23conversation.html?pagewanted=all

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2154828/Humans-evolved-runners-high-moving-explains-lazy-modern-lifestyles-bad-us.html

we also evolved to do hard physical work hence the positive adaptive responses to both strength training and cardio.

It's always interesting that it's only the meatheads that take the "strength is the one true path" way of thinking. I guess it's true that running makes you smarter...

http://news.runnersworld.com/2012/04/20/more-evidence-running-makes-you-smarter/

http://www.runnersworldonline.com.au/default.aspx?s=newsdisplay&id=3169

http://www.menshealth.com/fitness/running-brainpower



I'd sure hate to be puny & weak like Dave Scott (how many times did he win Kona swimming & biking & running????)

Maybe I should start running then, I'd rule the world.

Seriously dude, talking about insulting, asinine comments...well, you win hands down.

Also, as has been proven time and again...cardio IS irrelevant for fat loss...but I've yet to see the 'meathead' in this thread say it was bad for your health in moderation. The fact that you've pretty much claimed that outright...proves the falsehood of your last three links.

Oh, and for the record? There is nothing impressive about that guys physique. Competetive athletes tend to be lean (sometimes disgustingly it seems), regardless of their chosen sport. It has to do with progressively training to improve...which IS NOT what this thread was about.

Reading comprehension my friend. Get some.

You might try some yourself, my post was in reply to a very specific comment made that contained asinine, insulting comments

mmapags

I always want to know why the people here always take it to the extremes?

There's the Strength Training Only! people and the Cardio Only! people.

So what you can bench 300+ lbs, but can't run to the corner without gasping for breath...
You're still not fit.

I would be VERY surprised is anyone whos in a weight class benching that much would possibly be out of breath at doing that. Shockingly enough, submaximal effort and power/speed training is rather cardio intensive. Get your bodyweight on your shoulders and squat till failure, your heartrate will be near max and you'll be sweating hard.

For a personal story, havn't done cardio in 2 years, ran a 3km last week with no trouble cardiowise. I can bench close to 300lbs. Was I supposed to be out of breath and near death? Didn't really phase me. Problem was more one of ichyness by far and not one of I'm utterly gassed... Coulda easily ran more.

Basically what I'm saying here is if what you were saying is true, you would be right. But basically you're full of it because strong people who don't do cardio, will by default have a decent base cardio endurance that will be far better than most any sedentary person. Basically you're ignorant as to what strength training actually does.

Nope.
3 km is what you call cardio endurance? :laugh:
I used to only lift and hated cardio with a passion when I was younger(I was repping 285, no idea what my 1rm was because I never had a spotter.).
I was strong as an ox but couldn't run to save my life. You're ignorant if you think squatting will get you fit enough to run a marathon.
It wasn't until I added cardio that I am now what I consider fit. There is a reason why all PAT's include running.

So go ahead and run that marathon on only squat training and we'll see how far you go.

So, here is where your argument breaks down into a ridiculous premise and becomes nothing but posturing. 3k represents a certain level of cardio endurance. Is it the same as running a marathon? Of course not. That's just a ridiculous premise. Does someone need to be able to run a marathon to be considered fit? Nope. Again ridiculous. Is there a cardio benefit to strength training? Of course there is. That's been proven.

So when you define fit, you are definining it by your own subjective standard. A ridiculous standard I might add. Many people have achieved a reasonable level of cardio fitness and can't run 26 miles. If that's the standard you want to use for yourself, great. But that is not an objective universal standard. That is a sport specific standard. Your posturing undermines any credibiliity you might bring to the discussion. You are basically saying that everyone here who can't run a marathon is not fit from a cardio point if view. That's ridiculous. Plain and simple.

FTR, I run (3 to 5 miles) I bike (10 to 20 miles), I walk and I strength train. I believe that this kind of balanced approach is best in the abscence of a desire to excell at a specific sport like say, marathon running. No dog in the fight.

DanTTX

1. No hypothesis
2 No test subject-S. Notice how I add on the "s."
3. No longevity testing
4. No statistical data
5. Findings have not been replicated elsewhere by different researchers

#thisargumentisinvalid

Exactly.

tappae

Cardio isn't the problem. It's the fork and the mouth that's the problem.

Actually, I don't use a fork to eat pizza, hamburgers or french fries!

Emilit_uk

Cardio isn't the problem. It's the fork and the mouth that's the problem.

Actually, I don't use a fork to eat pizza, hamburgers or french fries!

Did somebody say Pizza? Yes please! (will run for food)

Jynus

I always want to know why the people here always take it to the extremes?

There's the Strength Training Only! people and the Cardio Only! people.

So what you can bench 300+ lbs, but can't run to the corner without gasping for breath...
You're still not fit.

I would be VERY surprised is anyone whos in a weight class benching that much would possibly be out of breath at doing that. Shockingly enough, submaximal effort and power/speed training is rather cardio intensive. Get your bodyweight on your shoulders and squat till failure, your heartrate will be near max and you'll be sweating hard.

For a personal story, havn't done cardio in 2 years, ran a 3km last week with no trouble cardiowise. I can bench close to 300lbs. Was I supposed to be out of breath and near death? Didn't really phase me. Problem was more one of ichyness by far and not one of I'm utterly gassed... Coulda easily ran more.

Basically what I'm saying here is if what you were saying is true, you would be right. But basically you're full of it because strong people who don't do cardio, will by default have a decent base cardio endurance that will be far better than most any sedentary person. Basically you're ignorant as to what strength training actually does.

Nope.
3 km is what you call cardio endurance? :laugh:
I used to only lift and hated cardio with a passion when I was younger(I was repping 285, no idea what my 1rm was because I never had a spotter.).
I was strong as an ox but couldn't run to save my life. You're ignorant if you think squatting will get you fit enough to run a marathon.
It wasn't until I added cardio that I am now what I consider fit. There is a reason why all PAT's include running.

So go ahead and run that marathon on only squat training and we'll see how far you go.

I never said anything about a marathon. I was replying to your asinine assertion that someone who strength trains would be unable to run to catch a bus... If you actually read, you would see I said that strength training will provide a 'base'. And a cardio level thats higher than someone whos sedentary. You're implying that someone who strength trains would somehow have reduced cardio ability, which is utterly false.

I'm also calling BS on your strength training. I honestly think you just say that as to sound like you're educated on the matter. I would be surprised if you've lifted anything ever..

Jynus

Why do I feel like Jynus is the author? :laugh:

^^Thinking this.

You guys must not be very bright then sorry to say. Prob explains why you dismiss the article...

Emilit_uk

Why do I feel like Jynus is the author? :laugh:

^^Thinking this.

You guys must not be very bright then sorry to say. Prob explains why you dismiss the article...

Why can't we all just get along? No need to resort to insulting people's intelligence

Do some cardio of your choice, do some weight-lifting too....both have benefits and everyone is happy. It's not like a relationship where you have to be exclusive

tappae

Alan Aragon and Lyle McDonald both say that cardio is pretty much pointless for normal weight loss scenarios, and they are two of the most knowledgeable fitness experts on the planet. You can accomplish the exact same thing with a larger caloric deficit, and get the same cardiovascular benefits from metabolic weight training, along with superior preservation of lean body mass.

If you want to do cardio for endurance or sport-specific training, then awesome.
If you wan to do LISS in conjunction with a strength training regiment for weight loss, then props to you.
If you want to use cardio as your primary exercise for weight loss, then enjoy losing tons of lean body mass and lowering your metabolism. (I'm sure that one will get me flamed, but hey, the truth hurts sometimes)

I read McDonald say something like that recently. He was talking about "untrained" people, though. In other words, if you're totally sedentary and you start running you can't go very far or very fast and you won't burn many calories. Once you've been running for a while, though, you can easily burn 1000 calories during a run. What would be better for your metabolism, eating 1600 calories or eating 2600 and running? If you're creating a deficit through diet, you're eating a lot less food than if you're creating the same deficit through exercise. Of course, if I go burn those 1000 calories and then come home and eat a large pizza I won't be losing weight. I do think resistance training is important for retaining lean mass (and so is protein, right?), but I'm not sure why you think that weight training can give you the same benefit as cardio. I lifted for years with little to no cardio and saw no improvement in my resting heart rate (an indicator of cardiovascular fitness). Running for one summer got it down into the low 40s (from the 90s).

mbgambill

Question for the physiologist (or any other runner): I started a running clinic 4 months ago. We started with short running intervals and then walking intervals until we worked our way up. After 10 weeks, I ran-walked a 5K in 38 mins. I have continued my training, however most of it has been on the treadmill lately due to the over 100 degree temps outside. I typically start with walking .25 miles at about 3.7 mph then I jog for a mile at 4.8mph for a mile. I then walk a quarter, jog a half, walk a quarter etc. to equal 2.5-3 miles. I do this 3 times per week. My heart rate still gets really high (170s) while I am jogging and I am unable to carry on a conversation while jogging. I have really been consistent with my training. I am about 20-30 pounds overweight, 37 yrs old, and have no health problems. I don't understand why this is still such a struggle for me. I tried turning the speed down to 4.6mph yesterday to see if my heart rate and breathing would be slower but it wasn't. I can do the elliptical without getting winded and my heart rate is usually in the 150s. The stationary bike only gets my heart rate to 130-140 but I don't feel like I get as good a work out. I really like the jogging because I really sweat and feel like I am getting a good workout. Any insight?? Do I just keep doing what I am doing? I thought by now I would be able to turn up the speed but I just can't hold out for a mile at any faster pace. I like what I am doing, I just want to see progress in my speed or endurance. Please help.