Cardio makes you fat: "Women: Running into Trouble"

mmapags

Alan Aragon and Lyle McDonald both say that cardio is pretty much pointless for normal weight loss scenarios, and they are two of the most knowledgeable fitness experts on the planet. You can accomplish the exact same thing with a larger caloric deficit, and get the same cardiovascular benefits from metabolic weight training, along with superior preservation of lean body mass.

If you want to do cardio for endurance or sport-specific training, then awesome.
If you wan to do LISS in conjunction with a strength training regiment for weight loss, then props to you.
If you want to use cardio as your primary exercise for weight loss, then enjoy losing tons of lean body mass and lowering your metabolism. (I'm sure that one will get me flamed, but hey, the truth hurts sometimes)

I read McDonald say something like that recently. He was talking about "untrained" people, though. In other words, if you're totally sedentary and you start running you can't go very far or very fast and you won't burn many calories. Once you've been running for a while, though, you can easily burn 1000 calories during a run. What would be better for your metabolism, eating 1600 calories or eating 2600 and running? If you're creating a deficit through diet, you're eating a lot less food than if you're creating the same deficit through exercise. Of course, if I go burn those 1000 calories and then come home and eat a large pizza I won't be losing weight. I do think resistance training is important for retaining lean mass (and so is protein, right?), but I'm not sure why you think that weight training can give you the same benefit as cardio. I lifted for years with little to no cardio and saw no improvement in my resting heart rate (an indicator of cardiovascular fitness). Running for one summer got it down into the low 40s (from the 90s).

If you read more closely, no one said that strength training gives you the "same benefit" as cardio. What has been stated is that there is cardio benefit from strength training that will show cardio fitness improvement compared to the sedentary or untrained. For cardio fitness as an objective, cardio exercise is best. That is not being disputed by anyone as far as I can tell. As you've pointed out, each type of exercise has a fitness and health benefit. They are comlimentary to in opposition to each other.

MsBrdlv

Whatever. I'm still doing Couch to 5K because it makes me feel good.

^^^This!! I feel so much better (and have more energy) on the days I run. And I've already lost inches from my waist and hips from the program and watching what I eat.

meerkat70

Jynus, do you run? how far, and how often?

Depends on context. I used to play competitive sports. At my peak I played national level Ultimate and trained/played about 20hours a week with craptons of cardio as the sport is just pure running. Did that for 2 years, and a good few before that with a few hours a week playing other cardio based sports like soccer. I never ran for fun or for time, or competed with running. it was always for training so I honestly have no idea how far, or what my times would be then. It was always ok, 20 min jog, go, and just do that before moving onto other training.

Now my last year of Ulti, I started doing weight training. I found a jump training template that had strength components and hit the gym to improve my performance. After I retired from Ulti to have time for life, I kept going to the gym to remain active. I went much more frequently and exercised a lot more intensely as I had the time and rest for it since I didn't want to bother with sports anymore. End result was after cutting out 20 hours of cardio a week and replacing it with about 6 hours of weight training, I shed a crapton of fat and recomped my body to the point where I just looked drastically different. I always looked athletic before, but had a much more olympic sprinter like look to me afterwards and had a 6pack for first time ever. That was a wakeup call for me about training methodologies and results from them. (assuming diet is in check)

I did spend a couple years actually doing personal training too, and have all my basic certs. And with my sports background and training as a profession, for study I would honestly say I've spent hundreds of hours reading studies and articles on fitness and health, and spent thousands of hours working with people on forums much like this, or in real life training with people. So I do have a bit of a background.

Interesting timing on your question however. I can say this though, I've always wanted to make the point where I do what I say, and made it a point to not do ANY cardio in my training, and have held true to that for the last 2 years. I wanted to show that you can gain and lose, faster and better, all without cardio. However over last weekend, a friend wanted to go for a jog and I said why the hell not. We didn't time it, but it was 3km. And I got through it without any trouble, 1 1min walking break or so though. my freaking legs were itchy as hell though, lol. 2 years not doing cardio prob has a few bugs to work out. I actually plan on taking 1 day a week now just for running. My son is 4, and loves to be outside, and is always wanting to race and do active things. I'll make it a father/son thing to go for a lil jog as much as we can and be active together doing whatever.

k, theres your essay on my background.

edit: the post right above mine is basically a mirror image of my experiences, but in reverse. the link does seem to be excessive/competitive cardio. Might be something to that rather than joe average just doing a few hours a week on the treadmill trying to drop a few pounds.

So, in short, no, you don't run....

That's really all you had to say, Jynus.

tappae

Alan Aragon and Lyle McDonald both say that cardio is pretty much pointless for normal weight loss scenarios, and they are two of the most knowledgeable fitness experts on the planet. You can accomplish the exact same thing with a larger caloric deficit, and get the same cardiovascular benefits from metabolic weight training, along with superior preservation of lean body mass.

If you want to do cardio for endurance or sport-specific training, then awesome.
If you wan to do LISS in conjunction with a strength training regiment for weight loss, then props to you.
If you want to use cardio as your primary exercise for weight loss, then enjoy losing tons of lean body mass and lowering your metabolism. (I'm sure that one will get me flamed, but hey, the truth hurts sometimes)

I read McDonald say something like that recently. He was talking about "untrained" people, though. In other words, if you're totally sedentary and you start running you can't go very far or very fast and you won't burn many calories. Once you've been running for a while, though, you can easily burn 1000 calories during a run. What would be better for your metabolism, eating 1600 calories or eating 2600 and running? If you're creating a deficit through diet, you're eating a lot less food than if you're creating the same deficit through exercise. Of course, if I go burn those 1000 calories and then come home and eat a large pizza I won't be losing weight. I do think resistance training is important for retaining lean mass (and so is protein, right?), but I'm not sure why you think that weight training can give you the same benefit as cardio. I lifted for years with little to no cardio and saw no improvement in my resting heart rate (an indicator of cardiovascular fitness). Running for one summer got it down into the low 40s (from the 90s).

If you read more closely, no one said that strength training gives you the "same benefit" as cardio. What has been stated is that there is cardio benefit from strength training that will show cardio fitness improvement compared to the sedentary or untrained. For cardio fitness as an objective, cardio exercise is best. That is not being disputed by anyone as far as I can tell. As you've pointed out, each type of exercise has a fitness and health benefit. They are comlimentary to in opposition to each other.

Actually, if you look above my post at what I quoted, you'll see: "get the same cardiovascular benefits from metabolic weight training." So, I actually just looked "metabolic weight training" up and it seems to be cardio with weights. If you're using smaller weights so that you can do more reps and keep your heart rate up, then you're doing cardio. I think that's a great way to exercise. What I like to do is circuit training on a greenway that has exercise stations periodically. That way, my cardio is my "rest period" while I run to the next strength exercise (chin-ups, dips, etc.). Now, you can say that this "metabolic weight training" is superior to jogging or elliptical or whatever in terms of weight loss and I'm not going to argue with that. If you try to contrast it with "cardio," then you have a problem, because that's what it is. If you're getting cardiovascular benefit, you're doing cardio.

wackyfunster

Alan Aragon and Lyle McDonald both say that cardio is pretty much pointless for normal weight loss scenarios, and they are two of the most knowledgeable fitness experts on the planet. You can accomplish the exact same thing with a larger caloric deficit, and get the same cardiovascular benefits from metabolic weight training, along with superior preservation of lean body mass.

If you want to do cardio for endurance or sport-specific training, then awesome.
If you wan to do LISS in conjunction with a strength training regiment for weight loss, then props to you.
If you want to use cardio as your primary exercise for weight loss, then enjoy losing tons of lean body mass and lowering your metabolism. (I'm sure that one will get me flamed, but hey, the truth hurts sometimes)

I read McDonald say something like that recently. He was talking about "untrained" people, though. In other words, if you're totally sedentary and you start running you can't go very far or very fast and you won't burn many calories. Once you've been running for a while, though, you can easily burn 1000 calories during a run. What would be better for your metabolism, eating 1600 calories or eating 2600 and running? If you're creating a deficit through diet, you're eating a lot less food than if you're creating the same deficit through exercise. Of course, if I go burn those 1000 calories and then come home and eat a large pizza I won't be losing weight. I do think resistance training is important for retaining lean mass (and so is protein, right?), but I'm not sure why you think that weight training can give you the same benefit as cardio. I lifted for years with little to no cardio and saw no improvement in my resting heart rate (an indicator of cardiovascular fitness). Running for one summer got it down into the low 40s (from the 90s).

I currently only lift (career+family+newborn+side projects = can't spare more than 3 hrs/week to work out), and am around 50 rhr now. You may not be lifting enough to see the benefits. My overweight power lifter former boss has a rhr in the 40's and was told he has the heart of a 20 year-old. You need to lift enough that you hit 100% HRM, which is way easier than it sounds.
I also agree that for someone whose goal is general fitness, an who has a lot of time, cardio can be great (you can really only lift for maybe 6 hours/week tops).
I am not anti-cardio, I just think that it's a waste of time for fat, out of shape people.
Also LISS is highly underrated.

aliciagudino

Pretty sure she said she hadn't JOGGED for 20 years. Being active and jogging can be different things, ya know.

crisanderson27

Jynus, do you run? how far, and how often?

Depends on context. I used to play competitive sports. At my peak I played national level Ultimate and trained/played about 20hours a week with craptons of cardio as the sport is just pure running. Did that for 2 years, and a good few before that with a few hours a week playing other cardio based sports like soccer. I never ran for fun or for time, or competed with running. it was always for training so I honestly have no idea how far, or what my times would be then. It was always ok, 20 min jog, go, and just do that before moving onto other training.

Now my last year of Ulti, I started doing weight training. I found a jump training template that had strength components and hit the gym to improve my performance. After I retired from Ulti to have time for life, I kept going to the gym to remain active. I went much more frequently and exercised a lot more intensely as I had the time and rest for it since I didn't want to bother with sports anymore. End result was after cutting out 20 hours of cardio a week and replacing it with about 6 hours of weight training, I shed a crapton of fat and recomped my body to the point where I just looked drastically different. I always looked athletic before, but had a much more olympic sprinter like look to me afterwards and had a 6pack for first time ever. That was a wakeup call for me about training methodologies and results from them. (assuming diet is in check)

I did spend a couple years actually doing personal training too, and have all my basic certs. And with my sports background and training as a profession, for study I would honestly say I've spent hundreds of hours reading studies and articles on fitness and health, and spent thousands of hours working with people on forums much like this, or in real life training with people. So I do have a bit of a background.

Interesting timing on your question however. I can say this though, I've always wanted to make the point where I do what I say, and made it a point to not do ANY cardio in my training, and have held true to that for the last 2 years. I wanted to show that you can gain and lose, faster and better, all without cardio. However over last weekend, a friend wanted to go for a jog and I said why the hell not. We didn't time it, but it was 3km. And I got through it without any trouble, 1 1min walking break or so though. my freaking legs were itchy as hell though, lol. 2 years not doing cardio prob has a few bugs to work out. I actually plan on taking 1 day a week now just for running. My son is 4, and loves to be outside, and is always wanting to race and do active things. I'll make it a father/son thing to go for a lil jog as much as we can and be active together doing whatever.

k, theres your essay on my background.

edit: the post right above mine is basically a mirror image of my experiences, but in reverse. the link does seem to be excessive/competitive cardio. Might be something to that rather than joe average just doing a few hours a week on the treadmill trying to drop a few pounds.

So, in short, no, you don't run....

That's really all you had to say, Jynus.

What a pathetically rude...not to mention unnecessary comment.

tappae

... You may not be lifting enough to see the benefits.... You need to lift enough that you hit 100% HRM, which is way easier than it sounds.

You may be right. I never wore a HRM while lifting, so I don't know what it was doing to my heart rate. I lifted for 7 years, working all major muscle groups with as heavy of weights as I could. I didn't see any real strength gains until I started overeating, too. Then, I gained a good bit of fat as well. I lost the fat with a summer of heavy running and no lifting (and only slight diet modifications). I lost a bit of strength as well, but not too much. I haven't lifted in 15 years. Now, I'm doing mostly running with some body weight exercises. My main goal right now is training for my first marathon and I'm starting to see that this might make it harder to lose as much weight as I would like. Once I eat enough carbs to fuel my running and enough protein to help to keep from losing lean mass there's not much room left to stay in a deficit. Also, I've read that large amounts of carb intake can inhibit fat loss.

mmapags

Alan Aragon and Lyle McDonald both say that cardio is pretty much pointless for normal weight loss scenarios, and they are two of the most knowledgeable fitness experts on the planet. You can accomplish the exact same thing with a larger caloric deficit, and get the same cardiovascular benefits from metabolic weight training, along with superior preservation of lean body mass.

If you want to do cardio for endurance or sport-specific training, then awesome.
If you wan to do LISS in conjunction with a strength training regiment for weight loss, then props to you.
If you want to use cardio as your primary exercise for weight loss, then enjoy losing tons of lean body mass and lowering your metabolism. (I'm sure that one will get me flamed, but hey, the truth hurts sometimes)

I read McDonald say something like that recently. He was talking about "untrained" people, though. In other words, if you're totally sedentary and you start running you can't go very far or very fast and you won't burn many calories. Once you've been running for a while, though, you can easily burn 1000 calories during a run. What would be better for your metabolism, eating 1600 calories or eating 2600 and running? If you're creating a deficit through diet, you're eating a lot less food than if you're creating the same deficit through exercise. Of course, if I go burn those 1000 calories and then come home and eat a large pizza I won't be losing weight. I do think resistance training is important for retaining lean mass (and so is protein, right?), but I'm not sure why you think that weight training can give you the same benefit as cardio. I lifted for years with little to no cardio and saw no improvement in my resting heart rate (an indicator of cardiovascular fitness). Running for one summer got it down into the low 40s (from the 90s).

If you read more closely, no one said that strength training gives you the "same benefit" as cardio. What has been stated is that there is cardio benefit from strength training that will show cardio fitness improvement compared to the sedentary or untrained. For cardio fitness as an objective, cardio exercise is best. That is not being disputed by anyone as far as I can tell. As you've pointed out, each type of exercise has a fitness and health benefit. They are comlimentary to in opposition to each other.

Actually, if you look above my post at what I quoted, you'll see: "get the same cardiovascular benefits from metabolic weight training." So, I actually just looked "metabolic weight training" up and it seems to be cardio with weights. If you're using smaller weights so that you can do more reps and keep your heart rate up, then you're doing cardio. I think that's a great way to exercise. What I like to do is circuit training on a greenway that has exercise stations periodically. That way, my cardio is my "rest period" while I run to the next strength exercise (chin-ups, dips, etc.). Now, you can say that this "metabolic weight training" is superior to jogging or elliptical or whatever in terms of weight loss and I'm not going to argue with that. If you try to contrast it with "cardio," then you have a problem, because that's what it is. If you're getting cardiovascular benefit, you're doing cardio.

I agree with both thier statement and your conclusion. Metabolic weight training is essentially "cardio" in nature. This "weight training can give you the same benefit as cardio." in what you wrote is what I was responding to. Thanks for pointing out what you meant. I appreciate it.

mmapags

I currently only lift (career+family+newborn+side projects = can't spare more than 3 hrs/week to work out), and am around 50 rhr now. You may not be lifting enough to see the benefits. My overweight power lifter former boss has a rhr in the 40's and was told he has the heart of a 20 year-old. You need to lift enough that you hit 100% HRM, which is way easier than it sounds.
I also agree that for someone whose goal is general fitness, an who has a lot of time, cardio can be great (you can really only lift for maybe 6 hours/week tops).
I am not anti-cardio, I just think that it's a waste of time for fat, out of shape people.
Also LISS is highly underrated.

Excellent post. I completely agree!

tappae

I agree with both thier statement and your conclusion. Metabolic weight training is essentially "cardio" in nature. This "weight training can give you the same benefit as cardio." in what you wrote is what I was responding to. Thanks for pointing out what you meant. I appreciate it.

No problem. I should have looked "metabolic weight training" up before my first post. On the other hand, Wackyfunster has posted again and does seem to be saying that they get cardiovascular benefit from weight training:

I currently only lift (career+family+newborn+side projects = can't spare more than 3 hrs/week to work out), and am around 50 rhr now. You may not be lifting enough to see the benefits. My overweight power lifter former boss has a rhr in the 40's and was told he has the heart of a 20 year-old. You need to lift enough that you hit 100% HRM, which is way easier than it sounds.

Maybe Wackyfunster can elaborate? Can you get the same cardiovascular benefit from doing basically anaerobic lifting or are you doing a type of lifting that involves more of a cardiovascular workout?

apriltrainer

Actually I stopped cardio altogether. It just wasn't working for me. Last time I logged into myfitness pal I was 133.4..and totally depressed. I think cardio for me just increases my appetite too much. Not like I was doing anything that intense- 20-30 min. Still it was too much. I decided to just concentrate on weights. WOW. Sure, the weight took 2 months to come off. But back in May I was 133.4. Today I am 120.4.

I don't think it was just the strength training that did it. It just was me not doing any compensatory overeating on the cardio. I am much less hungry now and feel I can control my appetite better without cardio.

LindaCWy

HAHA... "yes/ no machine" and "running and going no where" thats what happens on a treadmill... you run and go now where.

I stopped after that, my eyes glazed over and ADD kicked in... hahaha "yes/no machine"

ggcat

I think it's all about moderation... 20 hours of one activity is the problem. If you do a balanced approach (BALANCE people), then you should be fine - some weights, some cardio...

Just because cardio is good, doesn't mean you need to do 20 hours a week and ONLY do that. Just because weights are good, doesn't mean you need to lift for 3 hours a day every day and never do cardio.

but that's my figuring.

yep yep

BodybyPlants

Total BS. Running has millions of benefits for your body. Making sure to take adequate rest days is also an important part of a running routine... Actually any workout routine for that matter. Sooo... I believe this article is way off base.

meerkat70

Jynus, do you run? how far, and how often?

Depends on context. I used to play competitive sports. At my peak I played national level Ultimate and trained/played about 20hours a week with craptons of cardio as the sport is just pure running. Did that for 2 years, and a good few before that with a few hours a week playing other cardio based sports like soccer. I never ran for fun or for time, or competed with running. it was always for training so I honestly have no idea how far, or what my times would be then. It was always ok, 20 min jog, go, and just do that before moving onto other training.

Now my last year of Ulti, I started doing weight training. I found a jump training template that had strength components and hit the gym to improve my performance. After I retired from Ulti to have time for life, I kept going to the gym to remain active. I went much more frequently and exercised a lot more intensely as I had the time and rest for it since I didn't want to bother with sports anymore. End result was after cutting out 20 hours of cardio a week and replacing it with about 6 hours of weight training, I shed a crapton of fat and recomped my body to the point where I just looked drastically different. I always looked athletic before, but had a much more olympic sprinter like look to me afterwards and had a 6pack for first time ever. That was a wakeup call for me about training methodologies and results from them. (assuming diet is in check)

I did spend a couple years actually doing personal training too, and have all my basic certs. And with my sports background and training as a profession, for study I would honestly say I've spent hundreds of hours reading studies and articles on fitness and health, and spent thousands of hours working with people on forums much like this, or in real life training with people. So I do have a bit of a background.

Interesting timing on your question however. I can say this though, I've always wanted to make the point where I do what I say, and made it a point to not do ANY cardio in my training, and have held true to that for the last 2 years. I wanted to show that you can gain and lose, faster and better, all without cardio. However over last weekend, a friend wanted to go for a jog and I said why the hell not. We didn't time it, but it was 3km. And I got through it without any trouble, 1 1min walking break or so though. my freaking legs were itchy as hell though, lol. 2 years not doing cardio prob has a few bugs to work out. I actually plan on taking 1 day a week now just for running. My son is 4, and loves to be outside, and is always wanting to race and do active things. I'll make it a father/son thing to go for a lil jog as much as we can and be active together doing whatever.

k, theres your essay on my background.

edit: the post right above mine is basically a mirror image of my experiences, but in reverse. the link does seem to be excessive/competitive cardio. Might be something to that rather than joe average just doing a few hours a week on the treadmill trying to drop a few pounds.

So, in short, no, you don't run....

That's really all you had to say, Jynus.

What a pathetically rude...not to mention unnecessary comment.

Well, yes, it was a bit rude of him to go on at length like that, and not simply answer my quite succinctly framed question. But I didn't want to comment on it. I'm nice like that, you see.

apriltrainer

I used to be a marathon coach so I was one of those cardio people! So definately not prejudiced against it. It's just that it stopped working for me. It increased my appetite too much. I actually gained weight during my 2nd marathon. I started realizing (for me) that longer doesn't always mean better. When I did a half marathon I lost weight. Appetite was greatly reduced as opposed to training for a full marathon.

But lately running hasn't done much for me. I think I am just too efficient at it. And I hated that whenever I stopped running I would gain the weight back quickly. My goal before was to run a marathon and get better at running but soon, subconsciously it was to run off calories. Now that I don't have running as my backup..and only do strength training, I am very aware of what I put in my mouth.

Although now that I am totally inefficient at running(yeah! this former cardio queen is now not so fast) I will throw it in before a holiday getogether or right after...and it works really well. No weight gain. Go figure! I only do strength training but will keep cardio in the bank to be withdrawn in case of emergency..i.e. a 4th of July bbq!

mmapags

I agree with both thier statement and your conclusion. Metabolic weight training is essentially "cardio" in nature. This "weight training can give you the same benefit as cardio." in what you wrote is what I was responding to. Thanks for pointing out what you meant. I appreciate it.

No problem. I should have looked "metabolic weight training" up before my first post. On the other hand, Wackyfunster has posted again and does seem to be saying that they get cardiovascular benefit from weight training:

I currently only lift (career+family+newborn+side projects = can't spare more than 3 hrs/week to work out), and am around 50 rhr now. You may not be lifting enough to see the benefits. My overweight power lifter former boss has a rhr in the 40's and was told he has the heart of a 20 year-old. You need to lift enough that you hit 100% HRM, which is way easier than it sounds.

Maybe Wackyfunster can elaborate? Can you get the same cardiovascular benefit from doing basically anaerobic lifting or are you doing a type of lifting that involves more of a cardiovascular workout?

My buddy Whacky can answer for himself but I'd say no. You get slight cardio benefit from traditional strength training. You can, and do, elevate your heart rate to 90% - 100% if you are working a good progressive plan. It's for short periods of time so it has some benefit but is limited compared to metabolic weight training or running, biking etc. that elevates heart rate for extended periods of time. It is a vast improvement over being sedentary and will be beneficial for overall health though. There is also a performance gain from traditional strength training that applies to cardio cross training. For example, my squats have done wonders for my biking. I'm strengthening the same muscle group so that would follow. Metabolic weight training gives some of the best cardio benefit and best EPOC benefit according to most research. A major factor is fat loss is your goal.

shelleybelly35

I've lost a total of 108 pounds. At least 60-70 of those pounds were lost doing mainly cardio, daily. I didn't start adding serious muscle training in until I was a lot smaller. I am at a normal weight now, and I do cardio: plyo, HIIT, running and weight trainig: circuits, lifting, body weight resistance training.
I think the author here is assuming: a) women are doing nothing but "steady state" cardio. Many of us use intervals, or at least that is what I did; b) we will eat more calories when we do nothing but cardio. Many of us who lose weight doing cardio stick to a strict calorie count; c) we try to offset not losing weight by doing more and more cardio. I only ever did 1-1/2 hours of cardio a day, 6 days a week. The author mention 20 hours of cardio. Geez. Who does that, except on the biggest loser?
Yes, you should do a combination of cardio and weights, but not when you are too heavy. I started around 230 pounds. My mom used to be a fitness trainer, and she said in her business they often try to promote heavy weight training--circuit training. She said only do a little weight training because many of the super heavy people who weight train intensely have a lot of saggy skin. She showed me some clients pictures to prove it to me. So I worked with 1-3 pound weights two days a week for 20 minutes to counteract muscle loss and did cardio the rest of the time. I dropped 60-70 pounds in about 8 months. I started circuit and lost the rest. I am now toned, cut, and thin. I owe much of that to cardio.

Jynus

Jynus, do you run? how far, and how often?

Depends on context. I used to play competitive sports. At my peak I played national level Ultimate and trained/played about 20hours a week with craptons of cardio as the sport is just pure running. Did that for 2 years, and a good few before that with a few hours a week playing other cardio based sports like soccer. I never ran for fun or for time, or competed with running. it was always for training so I honestly have no idea how far, or what my times would be then. It was always ok, 20 min jog, go, and just do that before moving onto other training.

Now my last year of Ulti, I started doing weight training. I found a jump training template that had strength components and hit the gym to improve my performance. After I retired from Ulti to have time for life, I kept going to the gym to remain active. I went much more frequently and exercised a lot more intensely as I had the time and rest for it since I didn't want to bother with sports anymore. End result was after cutting out 20 hours of cardio a week and replacing it with about 6 hours of weight training, I shed a crapton of fat and recomped my body to the point where I just looked drastically different. I always looked athletic before, but had a much more olympic sprinter like look to me afterwards and had a 6pack for first time ever. That was a wakeup call for me about training methodologies and results from them. (assuming diet is in check)

I did spend a couple years actually doing personal training too, and have all my basic certs. And with my sports background and training as a profession, for study I would honestly say I've spent hundreds of hours reading studies and articles on fitness and health, and spent thousands of hours working with people on forums much like this, or in real life training with people. So I do have a bit of a background.

Interesting timing on your question however. I can say this though, I've always wanted to make the point where I do what I say, and made it a point to not do ANY cardio in my training, and have held true to that for the last 2 years. I wanted to show that you can gain and lose, faster and better, all without cardio. However over last weekend, a friend wanted to go for a jog and I said why the hell not. We didn't time it, but it was 3km. And I got through it without any trouble, 1 1min walking break or so though. my freaking legs were itchy as hell though, lol. 2 years not doing cardio prob has a few bugs to work out. I actually plan on taking 1 day a week now just for running. My son is 4, and loves to be outside, and is always wanting to race and do active things. I'll make it a father/son thing to go for a lil jog as much as we can and be active together doing whatever.

k, theres your essay on my background.

edit: the post right above mine is basically a mirror image of my experiences, but in reverse. the link does seem to be excessive/competitive cardio. Might be something to that rather than joe average just doing a few hours a week on the treadmill trying to drop a few pounds.

So, in short, no, you don't run....

That's really all you had to say, Jynus.

What a pathetically rude...not to mention unnecessary comment.

Well, yes, it was a bit rude of him to go on at length like that, and not simply answer my quite succinctly framed question. But I didn't want to comment on it. I'm nice like that, you see.

well now im curious.. could u enlighten me as to why the hundreds of hours i spent running for sports dont count as running?

crisanderson27

Jynus, do you run? how far, and how often?

Depends on context. I used to play competitive sports. At my peak I played national level Ultimate and trained/played about 20hours a week with craptons of cardio as the sport is just pure running. Did that for 2 years, and a good few before that with a few hours a week playing other cardio based sports like soccer. I never ran for fun or for time, or competed with running. it was always for training so I honestly have no idea how far, or what my times would be then. It was always ok, 20 min jog, go, and just do that before moving onto other training.

Now my last year of Ulti, I started doing weight training. I found a jump training template that had strength components and hit the gym to improve my performance. After I retired from Ulti to have time for life, I kept going to the gym to remain active. I went much more frequently and exercised a lot more intensely as I had the time and rest for it since I didn't want to bother with sports anymore. End result was after cutting out 20 hours of cardio a week and replacing it with about 6 hours of weight training, I shed a crapton of fat and recomped my body to the point where I just looked drastically different. I always looked athletic before, but had a much more olympic sprinter like look to me afterwards and had a 6pack for first time ever. That was a wakeup call for me about training methodologies and results from them. (assuming diet is in check)

I did spend a couple years actually doing personal training too, and have all my basic certs. And with my sports background and training as a profession, for study I would honestly say I've spent hundreds of hours reading studies and articles on fitness and health, and spent thousands of hours working with people on forums much like this, or in real life training with people. So I do have a bit of a background.

Interesting timing on your question however. I can say this though, I've always wanted to make the point where I do what I say, and made it a point to not do ANY cardio in my training, and have held true to that for the last 2 years. I wanted to show that you can gain and lose, faster and better, all without cardio. However over last weekend, a friend wanted to go for a jog and I said why the hell not. We didn't time it, but it was 3km. And I got through it without any trouble, 1 1min walking break or so though. my freaking legs were itchy as hell though, lol. 2 years not doing cardio prob has a few bugs to work out. I actually plan on taking 1 day a week now just for running. My son is 4, and loves to be outside, and is always wanting to race and do active things. I'll make it a father/son thing to go for a lil jog as much as we can and be active together doing whatever.

k, theres your essay on my background.

edit: the post right above mine is basically a mirror image of my experiences, but in reverse. the link does seem to be excessive/competitive cardio. Might be something to that rather than joe average just doing a few hours a week on the treadmill trying to drop a few pounds.

So, in short, no, you don't run....

That's really all you had to say, Jynus.

What a pathetically rude...not to mention unnecessary comment.

Well, yes, it was a bit rude of him to go on at length like that, and not simply answer my quite succinctly framed question. But I didn't want to comment on it. I'm nice like that, you see.

Rude...AND too self centered to accept it being pointed out with grace.

Bravo!!

wackyfunster

I agree with both thier statement and your conclusion. Metabolic weight training is essentially "cardio" in nature. This "weight training can give you the same benefit as cardio." in what you wrote is what I was responding to. Thanks for pointing out what you meant. I appreciate it.

No problem. I should have looked "metabolic weight training" up before my first post. On the other hand, Wackyfunster has posted again and does seem to be saying that they get cardiovascular benefit from weight training:

I currently only lift (career+family+newborn+side projects = can't spare more than 3 hrs/week to work out), and am around 50 rhr now. You may not be lifting enough to see the benefits. My overweight power lifter former boss has a rhr in the 40's and was told he has the heart of a 20 year-old. You need to lift enough that you hit 100% HRM, which is way easier than it sounds.

Maybe Wackyfunster can elaborate? Can you get the same cardiovascular benefit from doing basically anaerobic lifting or are you doing a type of lifting that involves more of a cardiovascular workout?

I wouldn't say the exact same level of benefit... someone who specializes in cardio endurance will have better cardio endurance than someone who does not. I think that for the level of fitness most people are going for, weights will suffice. E.g. when I was finishing my last cut, I did a week of low carb, and could do 10 mins HIIT (190+ heart rate peak) + 40 minutes of 150bpm steady state cardio + 10 minutes of HIIT without dying (while 16 hours fasted as well... yes, I there probably is something wrong with me), which IMO is better than most "cardio" people. Low carb+16 hours fasting+cardio = insanely hard btw. I can also complete 'insanity' although it is pretty brutally rough (I push myself hard, so my average heart rate last time I did it was around 185), and when I started it, that was the only cardio I had done in a couple of years, so obviously doing only weight training isn't as bad for your cardiovascular health as commonly believed.

OTOH my marathoner friends can do stuff that would probably kill me, e.g. I have a coworker who regularly rides ~150 miles on his bike (he commutes like ~25 miles every day on it as well)... he can't do a body-weight push-up though, which is kinda funny. I won't be completing an iron man any time soon. I seriously doubt that many of the cardio proponents here would either though... props to anyone with that kind of dedication.

I currently do mostly anaerobic "Power-lifting" style lifts. Previously I have done a lot of circuit training type stuff with a 30 second rest between sets. Both seem to provide a different set of benefits (circuit training seems better for endurance, power-lifting has dropped my blood pressure and resting heart rate more... that is purely anecdotal though). I normally lift in the 6-12RM range, and push very hard psychologically (I think this is the biggest hurdle most people have to overcome with weight training... you can move a lot more weight than you think you can if you are in the right state of mind!).

My lifestyle is definitely 'sedentary', other than the ~3 hours/week of weights that I do, so I don't think that's a factor.

I really don't have a problem with cardio... my main problem is that for the goal of most people on this site, it is a much less than optimal strategy as the primary form of exercise.

Toxictwist

Whatever. I'm still doing Couch to 5K because it makes me feel good.

^ This

meerkat70

Jynus, do you run? how far, and how often?

Depends on context. I used to play competitive sports. At my peak I played national level Ultimate and trained/played about 20hours a week with craptons of cardio as the sport is just pure running. Did that for 2 years, and a good few before that with a few hours a week playing other cardio based sports like soccer. I never ran for fun or for time, or competed with running. it was always for training so I honestly have no idea how far, or what my times would be then. It was always ok, 20 min jog, go, and just do that before moving onto other training.

Now my last year of Ulti, I started doing weight training. I found a jump training template that had strength components and hit the gym to improve my performance. After I retired from Ulti to have time for life, I kept going to the gym to remain active. I went much more frequently and exercised a lot more intensely as I had the time and rest for it since I didn't want to bother with sports anymore. End result was after cutting out 20 hours of cardio a week and replacing it with about 6 hours of weight training, I shed a crapton of fat and recomped my body to the point where I just looked drastically different. I always looked athletic before, but had a much more olympic sprinter like look to me afterwards and had a 6pack for first time ever. That was a wakeup call for me about training methodologies and results from them. (assuming diet is in check)

I did spend a couple years actually doing personal training too, and have all my basic certs. And with my sports background and training as a profession, for study I would honestly say I've spent hundreds of hours reading studies and articles on fitness and health, and spent thousands of hours working with people on forums much like this, or in real life training with people. So I do have a bit of a background.

Interesting timing on your question however. I can say this though, I've always wanted to make the point where I do what I say, and made it a point to not do ANY cardio in my training, and have held true to that for the last 2 years. I wanted to show that you can gain and lose, faster and better, all without cardio. However over last weekend, a friend wanted to go for a jog and I said why the hell not. We didn't time it, but it was 3km. And I got through it without any trouble, 1 1min walking break or so though. my freaking legs were itchy as hell though, lol. 2 years not doing cardio prob has a few bugs to work out. I actually plan on taking 1 day a week now just for running. My son is 4, and loves to be outside, and is always wanting to race and do active things. I'll make it a father/son thing to go for a lil jog as much as we can and be active together doing whatever.

k, theres your essay on my background.

edit: the post right above mine is basically a mirror image of my experiences, but in reverse. the link does seem to be excessive/competitive cardio. Might be something to that rather than joe average just doing a few hours a week on the treadmill trying to drop a few pounds.

So, in short, no, you don't run....

That's really all you had to say, Jynus.

What a pathetically rude...not to mention unnecessary comment.

Well, yes, it was a bit rude of him to go on at length like that, and not simply answer my quite succinctly framed question. But I didn't want to comment on it. I'm nice like that, you see.

Rude...AND too self centered to accept it being pointed out with grace.

Bravo!!

OK, I'll bite. Quite how is it 'rude' to point out that someone who clearly has no running experience *has no running experience*?

I think perhaps we operate with different understandings of what's rude, and what's just pointing out a neat bit of sidestepping on the part of a poster who doesn't want to admit they don't *really* know much about what they're talking about?

meerkat70

Oh and Cris, I didn't see you getting bent out of shape over the same poster calling everyone who didn't immediately agree with his genius 'stupid'?

So yeah... different understandings of the term 'rude'....

gogojodee

lol - wow. I have NO idea what to say. Ha.

As far as someone's T3 turning back to normal for the Cardio Queens - yeah, explain that to someone with Hashimoto's which is an auto-immune disease which is the causation of hypothyroidism in those individuals.

gxm17

lol - wow. I have NO idea what to say. Ha.

As far as someone's T3 turning back to normal for the Cardio Queens - yeah, explain that to someone with Hashimoto's which is an auto-immune disease which is the causation of hypothyroidism in those individuals.

Thank you, gogojodee! There's no "turning back to normal" for us Hashi's folks.

crisanderson27

OK, I'll bite. Quite how is it 'rude' to point out that someone who clearly has no running experience *has no running experience*?

I think perhaps we operate with different understandings of what's rude, and what's just pointing out a neat bit of sidestepping on the part of a poster who doesn't want to admit they don't *really* know much about what they're talking about?

I don't know...years of sports involving massive amounts of running might be considered running experience...or maybe you believe it's crocheting experience?

/shrug

Additionally, that's not what I considered rude. Your commentary sarcastically dismissing his post, while indicating that his efforts to try to give his overall background in an attempt to answer both your question, and clarify his overall position, were a complete waste of his time was what I considered rude.

Oh and Cris, I didn't see you getting bent out of shape over the same poster calling everyone who didn't immediately agree with his genius 'stupid'?

So yeah... different understandings of the term 'rude'....

I didn't get bent out of shape over the comment you mention, because prior to that, there was more than one comment indicating that anyone who doesn't run on a daily basis is basically an idiot. Additionally, there has also been more than one comment suggesting that people who don't enjoy running (or cardio in general of course) go around suggesting there is no benefit to cardio at all, which is completely untrue. I even glanced through this thread again, and still couldn't find one person who said there was no overall benefit to cardio. You runners just seem to take offense at the fact that cardio IS unnecessary in the overall scheme of things when fat loss is the main goal. You become snippy, sarcastic, and the elitist 'runner' attitude comes out like a foul smell.

So yeah, at that point I kind of felt it was deserved.

Oh, by the way...I'd like to mention that I far preferred your last two responses to your first. I don't know if you thought you were being funny with your mock attempt to deflect my commentary towards Jynus or what...but it came across as pure childishness. To the point that I fully expected your next reply to me to be 'I know you are but what am I?!'.

Thanks for changing the direction of that...it's very much appreciated.

Jynus

OK, I'll bite. Quite how is it 'rude' to point out that someone who clearly has no running experience *has no running experience*?

I think perhaps we operate with different understandings of what's rude, and what's just pointing out a neat bit of sidestepping on the part of a poster who doesn't want to admit they don't *really* know much about what they're talking about?

I don't know...years of sports involving massive amounts of running might be considered running experience...or maybe you believe it's crocheting experience?

/shrug

Additionally, that's not what I considered rude. Your commentary sarcastically dismissing his post, while indicating that his efforts to try to give his overall background in an attempt to answer both your question, and clarify his overall position, were a complete waste of his time was what I considered rude.

Oh and Cris, I didn't see you getting bent out of shape over the same poster calling everyone who didn't immediately agree with his genius 'stupid'?

So yeah... different understandings of the term 'rude'....

I didn't get bent out of shape over the comment you mention, because prior to that, there was more than one comment indicating that anyone who doesn't run on a daily basis is basically an idiot. Additionally, there has also been more than one comment suggesting that people who don't enjoy running (or cardio in general of course) go around suggesting there is no benefit to cardio at all, which is completely untrue. I even glanced through this thread again, and still couldn't find one person who said there was no overall benefit to cardio. You runners just seem to take offense at the fact that cardio IS unnecessary in the overall scheme of things when fat loss is the main goal. You become snippy, sarcastic, and the elitist 'runner' attitude comes out like a foul smell.

So yeah, at that point I kind of felt it was deserved.

Oh, by the way...I'd like to mention that I far preferred your last two responses to your first. I don't know if you thought you were being funny with your mock attempt to deflect my commentary towards Jynus or what...but it came across as pure childishness. To the point that I fully expected your next reply to me to be 'I know you are but what am I?!'.

Thanks for changing the direction of that...it's very much appreciated.

thank you. This sums ups my thoughts on the subject far better and much more eloquently than I could possibly put into words. I don't think I have EVER said cardio is bad for you, nor have I ever seen anyone else. I'm a full proponent that cardio has value and should be done. My position has always been however that cardio is unnecessary is your goal is fat loss. (fat loss != health) And in fact gives worse results for fat loss compared to other training methodologies. as I first accidently discovered based upon my own training experiences, and then had affirmed through my profession while training.

Do cardio cause you like to do it? sure. Cause it has health benefits? sure. Cause it's your sport? Well dur. Cause it boosts fat loss? Nope, not buying it.

wackyfunster

lol - wow. I have NO idea what to say. Ha.

As far as someone's T3 turning back to normal for the Cardio Queens - yeah, explain that to someone with Hashimoto's which is an auto-immune disease which is the causation of hypothyroidism in those individuals.

That's true, but you should be taking thyroid hormone replacements to get your levels back to normal. Perpetually low thyroid hormone levels is insanely bad for your health.

I have a friend with Hashimoto's who started on an IF+resistance training regimen, and he's been getting great results with that, if that helps.