400 Net Calories for the Day: Scary Behavior
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I see far too many people pushing the reasonable bounds of weight loss--they are eating like 700 or 1,000 calories and then burning off 500 through exercise, and they come out some days with 400 or 800 net. I've seen as low as 200 or 300 net.
In my view, this is simply dangerous. I don't think a lot of folks understand that "net calories" already have the acceptable range of weight loss figured in, and that you need to eat back to get yourself close to your net. Now I know this is somewhat of an art--if you're full, no need to eat, maybe you overestimated exercise and underestimated food calories--but really: 400 net?
Unfortunately, because they are losing a lot of weight, they keep up with this ultra-low calorie regime. In the short term all is great--they lose weight. In the long term, they lose muscle mass, thus decreasing their overall metabolic rate; perhaps bone strength as well; and I wonder what kind of health problems they will develop later on because they deprived their body of the necessary energy and nutrients for so long. Bad teeth, brittle hair, organ complications; general weakness; lack of strength and energy to carry out basic tasks---the list could go on.
Worried about a lot of scary short-term thinking.
My day looks like this every single day, along with a couple hundred others I know on here. Here's the secret: We've had weight loss surgery and have been put on this regiment by our docs. Things aren't always as they seem.
We are, all in all, VERY healthy, and under close medical supervision. 0 -
I don't mean to do it, but on training days (tuesday/thursday) where I"m burning 800+ cals, I simply cannot eat all of that back. I'm not quitting martial arts just so I can reach my cals 2 days a week.0
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Unfortunately, I had to un-friend someone on here because they were only eating less than 700 calories a day with a ton of exercise. Despite being warned of some of the complications that can come with that, it didn't change and I couldn't stand around and watch that happen on a daily basis. I felt bad doing it but it had to be done.0
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Odds are, if someone's eating at a really alarming calorie deficit they're already in the throes of an eating disorder and nothing you say will help them, or it will be a little experiment tried for a week or two before the realisation sets in that eating so little and exercising to extremes is not a very nice use of anyone's time. Of course, it could just be that there are a number of petite women on here who do best at 1200 calories a day regardless of their exercise. Maybe their 1200 calories are so full of fibre and protein that they don't care to eat anymore than is comfortable. Maybe they're saving their calories for a few glasses of wine and a nice meal on the weekend. Please don't worry about the little ladies and their health. You've got to be really, really dedicated to your eating disorder to suffer long term problems. But if it makes you feel better, I've lost hair because of issues with iron. I was eating far more than 1200 calories a day.
Tbh, I see a lot of men here trying to... well, rescue the poor, misguided women. Some of them are openly hostile to a way of eating that doesn't involve chugging multiple protein shakes and eating a few dozen chickens worth of meat in a single day. You just have to look at some of the ridiculous threads "ZOMG CARDIO MAKES U FATTTTTTTTTT LIFT OR DIE B*TCHES" to see that there are some really misguided nutjobs who think that their silly habits are better than other people's silly habits. Why don't all the rescuers sit down, discuss just how little they agree on, and set about rescuing each other?
Well that's not me--I am not into protein shakes. I do strength train but as an equal complement to cardio. I believe both are wise.
Again, another logical fallacy:
Person 1. This is alarming behavior.
Person 2. Shut up and concentrate on yourself, and by the way, you're just another protein-shake lunkhead.
So in addition to you saying to ignore the problem, you offer an additional fallacy of an ad hominem guilt-by-association attack.
Next...
Oh, has someone been gotten himself a first year logic textbook from Ebay? Congrats, great purchase! AAAAAA+ would deal with buyer again!!!111!!!
Here's an idea: you can't fix anyone who isn't you and unless 1200cal a day dieters are all over the forums pushing their silly ideas, you've no reason to call them out for behaviour you find offputting. Just look at the pretty pictures, and stay out of these women's diaries. When you go about white knighting down a well trodden path you start to look like the sort of guy who wishes he was better endowed, you know? Now go and rescue these poor men who lift with bad form and are set for a couple of acl tears and poorly treated muscle strain. You need to let them know that a fructose free diet saves no one from the horrors of Youtube instructional vids and a garage setup. Go, save!
At the risk of disappointing you, unfortunately Ebay was out of logic textbooks when I was studying in law school and I had to learn the old-fashioned way.
One thing I learned is that when dealing with someone who displays a high-school level of discourse by engaging in personal character attacks--against forum rules by the way--the temptation is to stoop to their sophomoric level and return the insults, thus fueling the Jerry Springer direction that the high-school speaker wishes to direct the argument-- jokes about ****s, about all men being the same, and so forth. I fear you'd just continue with insults instead of arguments, and so devolve the conversation to the intellectual level of fart jokes.
I would ask you to address the original point--what is it about eating 1,000 calories a day and netting 400 that is healthy?--but as you seem incapable of doing that, I will simply ask for you to grow up.
What was it that made you think I view low calorie diets as being healthy or even sustainable? Was it when I labelled the practice silly? For a lawyer you're not very good at picking out details beyond butthurt drama. Law isn't my field but a fair few of my friends did law while I skulking around the labs and my goodness... they'd not have made it far with your brilliant mind.
Seriously, the 1200 calorie a day thing is done at least once a week. It's always sad little men objecting to the diaries of random dieters, invariably women, and wanting to rescue them from what is apparently a few calories shy of a Malian peasant's daily rations. Never do I see the white knighters trying to rescue heavy lifters with poor form. For me, a lower back injury (or worse) is a darn site more serious than a few days of grumpiness because Slimfast really is the worst diet in the world.
That said, I'm going to go now and make sure I net 1200 calories via steak tartare and possibly sautéed chicken livers. I don't have any pre-weight gain pics in my profile though, so you needn't worry about saving me from parasites and purines. Best to you!
This. Thank you, those threads really bothered me every time I saw them, and I couldn't quite put my finger on why. Sneaky misogyny is sneaky. You've articulated it really well for me.0 -
When I know in advance that I will work out at the end of the day I go ahead and enter it in the morning. That way I know how many calories I will have for the whole day, and can split it up between all the meals and snacks instead of throwing it all in at night... hope this helps!0
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I put this behavior up with eating junk food, processed food, or restaurant food for every meal.
For example: Granola bar and coffee for breakfast; Applebees ribs with fries for lunch; McDonalds burger with fries for dinner. Now all the person's calories are all used up and they haven't even had a decent fruit or vegetable during that day. Yet, I see several of my friends doing this every day!
This is just as unhealthy as eating less than 1200 because the person is not getting all their nutrients.
I have been considering unfriending these people because I won't support this kind of dieting. I know some people would say that I am being harsh, but I don't feel that way. I just can't bring myself to tell these people 'Great day' or 'You're doing fantastic' when they are, in fact, hurting themselves with their behavior.
As for eating less than the 1200 minimum and exercising to the extreme, which I have also seen, that is the beginning of anorexia nervosa. Totally unhealthy.
Do I go around and read people's diaries? Only if they are on my friends list. Part of supporting each other is to comment on how good the person did for the day. Perhaps the OP does like I do, looks at his friends' diaries before he posts to them that they did great for the day. I know some people just see that the person was under their calorie goal and post that they did great. Yep, I could be under my goal too and eat twinkies all day long, but I wouldn't call that 'great' any more than I would call great eating granola bars and starbucks for breakfast, Applebees for lunch, and McDonalds for dinner.
I feel the same way. I absolutely refuse to praise someone on the verge or in the throes of an ED as well as the ppl who stayed under their calorie goal but eating crap all day. That would be fake and I don't have a fake bone in my body...0 -
Question, What if the person is like me, and we do our work out at the end of the day, I'm talking 7-8pm, the food cut off for me is no later than 7pm. What to do?
Eat more before your workout to fuel it, so you work harder. Preferably protein.
Also, there's no reason you *can't* have a protein shake after your workout. I consistently ate dinner at 10 or 11 p.m. while I was losing weight (night classes for grad school) and it didn't impacted me negatively.
It really doesn't matter when you eat during the day, calories are calories. It's a myth that you have to stop eating at a certain hour in order to lose weight. If you're hungry: EAT!0 -
I actually wish I could eat more calories, but since I recently had gastric bypass surgery I can only get in about 300-400 calories per day...no matter how hard I try I just can't get anymore in.
Hopefully in the coming weeks it will increase.
It will. For those of us that are post-op and under the care of a bariatric doctor, they are aware that our calorie intake is going to be low for awhile. Since we are all very overweight a low cal diet for a while is acceptable and isnt going to hurt you. The most important thing for you to worry about right now is getting in your protein ( I shoot for at least 70gms/day) and your water. I am now almost 4 months out and between shakes and food I am averaging 900-1050 cal/day. You will get there
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good input and probably much needed by many...........don't have this problem myself. I eat as much as the program allows. thx for good advice to all 0
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Ok well I guess I better be prepared to get yelled at here because my allowance is 1240 calories a day and even when I do 700 calorie burn on exercise I do not eat much more than that. I know about eating back your exercise calories and I understand that...but that being said I have hypothyroidism and my metabolism is slow. But I tried it a while back and guess what? I gained weight. It may work in theory for some...but it doesn't work for me. Even so I am lucky to lose a pound a week but I can live with that.0
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I am new here but I do have to say, like "smileitmakes people wonder..." that some of us were recommended to use this site after having had bariatric surgery. And most of our docs recommend that during the weight-loss phase we keep our goal at 400-600 calories per day. Since we don't feel hunger the same after surgery, and have a restricted ability to take in food, that is actually a reasonable goal. Those of us who were long-time dieters maintaining 1200 calories per day while still being morbidly obese can tell you that what works for one person may not work for someone else. And with a minor in nutrition I knew exactly what I was doing wrong...and what I was doing right. Exericise physiology and nutritional balance are not one-size-fits-all science. Heredity, acquired metabolic changes, physical disabilities, and so on all contribute an influence on what works for an individual. So although the concern might be well-intentioned, trying to save your cohorts from future damage, all you see on here is a surface report and not the whole story of anyone's weight loss journey. Just something to keep in mind...
^^^this0 -
And it's ABSURD!IM on 1200 a day, and I do eat that but I choose not to eat back my exercise calories...I know that will upset some but Im almost always right around 1200
I hear alot of people say this.
Why engage in some miserable diet of deprivation?
I eat around 3000 calories daily and get great results.
Who is having more fun?
Who gets to eat well and enjoy life?
People act like these starvation diet are some way of being a rebel...:laugh:
No, if you want to go against the grain, eat MORE to weigh less.
Starvation diets are miserable, the results short term and they're usually unhealthy.
Go ahead and make yourself miserable - your choice.
As for me?
I just made my weekly weight and am headed to enjoy a Big Breakfast at McDonald's - 1200 + calories...ONE MEAL!
Read it and weep!
:sad: :sad: :sad: :sad:
While the chest thumping is certainly entertaining, what you don't seem to understand is that if you're losing at 3000 calories/day, you're burning more than that. So of course 1200 would feel overly restrictive to you.
Some of us burn half or less what you burn. We can't eat 3000 or 2000 and lose and that's ok because if we ate that much we would be stuffed beyond comfort because our smaller bodies and appetites don't require that much. 1200 is fine for many of us. It's not a Sausage McMuffin with cheese and hash browns and then 23 hours of starvation. It's a nice spread of healthy, filling food.
I agree that the White Knighting of the poor little starvin', stupid ladies is offensive.0 -
I saw someone who consistently netted 200 calories and less, and one day actually netted a NEGATIVE number.
What can you do though? Some people are set on doing it this way. All we can do is provide support, advice, and information. The rest is up to them.
Those who are set on doing this do not need the kind of support I see most often, though. There are way too many 'good job', 'atta-girl', "way to go" compliments being given and that just fuels the fire to continue what they are doing. Support, yes. Advice, yes. Solid information, yes. Those are things they need. But let's not congratulate those who are hell bent on doing unhealthy things and getting the results they want (in the beginning, anyway). Others (newbies) look at this and only see the scale number going down. It's better to set a good example rather than an unhealthy one. Just my two cents.
I meant support as in, try to support them to do it a better way.
Personally, the few threads I have seen of people talk about such low calorie diets, there are plenty of people who pipe up against it. Unfortunately, those threads degenerate fast into bickering between the two camps. But that's what I mean, you can support them to do it in a healthier manner, you can give advice on how to do it, and information as to why they should do it differently, but in the end, it's up to them. Unfortunately, we can't control other people, as much as we'd like to, even if it's for their own good.0 -
i had a 1000 calorie diet once, in college, when i didn't know better. i worked out for 1-2 hours every single day.
i lost 25 pounds in the first 5 weeks, and totaled 35 pounds in about 12 weeks. so yeah, it works. but, i gained every single pound back within 6 months. not a cool way to diet.0 -
When I skate for an hour, then walk for probably two hours, I CAN NOT eat up an EXTRA three thousand calories, plus the 1,200 MFP gives me.0
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I can appreciate your concern. I've been using MFP for about a month now. Yes, I am seriously overweight; however, I'm still eating a LOT of food--going over my calorie alotment for the day. When my exercise is factored in, I'm usually under between 200 and 400 calories, and I can't eat another bite. I'm just plain full.0
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Question, What if the person is like me, and we do our work out at the end of the day, I'm talking 7-8pm, the food cut off for me is no later than 7pm. What to do?
I'm a firm believer in "Rollover Calories."
If I work out late I don't worry about fitting them in on the same day.
I eat them the next day.
(Think if you worked out at 6am and ate them at 8pm on the same day you wouldn't give it a second thought.
So working out at 8pm and eating the calories at 10am is really the same thing.)
Your body still needs fuel to function properly
I, for some very unscientific reason, believe that "rollover calories" expire after 3 day, If I haven't used them by then I probably didn't need them.0 -
I meant support as in, try to support them to do it a better way.
Personally, the few threads I have seen of people talk about such low calorie diets, there are plenty of people who pipe up against it. Unfortunately, those threads degenerate fast into bickering between the two camps. But that's what I mean, you can support them to do it in a healthier manner, you can give advice on how to do it, and information as to why they should do it differently, but in the end, it's up to them. Unfortunately, we can't control other people, as much as we'd like to, even if it's for their own good.
We're pretty much there now in this thread too. All we can do is this:
And hope at some point they find a better way.0 -
Question, What if the person is like me, and we do our work out at the end of the day, I'm talking 7-8pm, the food cut off for me is no later than 7pm. What to do?
I'm a firm believer in "Rollover Calories."
If I work out late I don't worry about fitting them in on the same day.
I eat them the next day.
(Think if you worked out at 6am and ate them at 8pm on the same day you wouldn't give it a second thought.
So working out at 8pm and eating the calories at 10am is really the same thing.)
Your body still needs fuel to function properly
I, for some very unscientific reason, believe that "rollover calories" expire after 3 day, If I haven't used them by then I probably didn't need them.
I won't roll over calories, but I will roll over food - if I I logged three eggs, and only ate two, I'll eat the next one for breakfast, etc.0 -
I would love to know what distance of time qualifies as "doing this long term".0
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I was doing this when I first started MFP. I was given 1200 calories and I could eat those easily. BUT when I would do spin class and be done at 6:30 at night, I would have my protein shake and then not be hungry AT ALL. I would force myself to have the shake but I wasn't hungry in the least.
When you are trying to find the balance of eating healthy and infusing fruits and vegetables in your diet sometimes the calories don't actually add up to the amount of food you really are eating.
Bottom line, it is scary behavior to continually net such low numbers; however, we don't exactly know where they are in their journey. Its a journey for a reason, you try and fail, try and fail until you find what's right for you.
All we can do is be there to answer questions and support the positive behaviors and choices they ARE making. Positive reinforcement goes a LONG way.0 -
When I skate for an hour, then walk for probably two hours, I CAN NOT eat up an EXTRA three thousand calories, plus the 1,200 MFP gives me.
Do you use a Heart Rate Monitor?
How do you burn 3,000 calories?
I checked my exercise log when I was at my high weight and I came up with about 500 for 1 hour of skating and 500 for a 2 hour walk.
Are you doing something special to burn more? Or are you just estimating high?0 -
Yes we knooooooooow. SO YOU CAN HELP??? Ok, I'm being a little *****y...sorry. I tried to increase my cals very slowly to at least get them up a little more...the anxiety wasn't worth it. It looks scary to people who have always eaten normally. Obviously, pro-ana is ridiculous and would best be ignored. But the people using MFP who have eating disorders have the right to log what they ARE eating and to use the site to connect with people who struggle with those issues as well. I've recieved some great support through this site from both people in my situation and those who do not struggle with anorexia and I'm really grateful for that.0
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Well there are some like me who have had surgery who after eating and working out - we will net very low. Somedays it is hard for me to get 1200 in bare minimum before working out.
So with some there are always reasons behind it - not just starvation
ETA: My Dr would like me to eat 1200 (he just raised me to that intake from 900) so my intake will be low0 -
Yes we knooooooooow. SO YOU CAN HELP??? Ok, I'm being a little *****y...sorry. I tried to increase my cals very slowly to at least get them up a little more...the anxiety wasn't worth it. It looks scary to people who have always eaten normally. Obviously, pro-ana is ridiculous and would best be ignored. But the people using MFP who have eating disorders have the right to log what they ARE eating and to use the site to connect with people who struggle with those issues as well. I've recieved some great support through this site from both people in my situation and those who do not struggle with anorexia and I'm really grateful for that.
My sister was in your camp a few years ago. Its tough, but once you get over the hurdle, the fear of weight gain your life will be so much better. My advice would be this, listen to your body as you workout, eat etc, and it will tell you what it wants. Focus on eating "good foods" and don't worry about calorie counts etc. Find someone to help you, in my sisters case it was me, i drilled it into her head she could eat three times the food and not get fat with exercise mixed in. Make it a 90 day or 180 day goal to be at a certain place.0 -
Question, What if the person is like me, and we do our work out at the end of the day, I'm talking 7-8pm, the food cut off for me is no later than 7pm. What to do?
Start eating after 7 pm unless you have a real medical reason not to? Plan ahead and eat more calories before your work out?
I work out at 10 pm most nights -- I eat anytime I am hungry but most of the time I am done eating for the day when I work out. I eat my work out calories before I work out.0 -
Unfortunately for some people food is a total addiction whether you are overeating or restricting. When they begin their journey at say 1500 cals, it then becomes a daily struggle to force themselves to eat that...each day trying to reduce the food more and more thinking maybe today I could do 1400, then 1300. It's an addiction like any other. When you are in this mode you don't think about the dangerous consequences, just losing weight.
I agree that some people don't post everything. I know once I reached a comfort level with my food and knowing the calories, I didn't post everything and some days I have nothing. But I'm eating a lot. Nice you are concerned for others though.0 -
Very scary! Remember, we do not find out worth in numbers or in other people - we find out worth in the eyes of God - each of us created beautifully! Honor Him with your body - but do not go to extremes! If you notice these types of behaviors, please - seek help! Love and respect yourself!
God Bless!
www.NeedGod.com0 -
I am new to MFP & my nets have been in the 700s... but if I am full I wont eat! I never even thought of how dangerous it could or would be.. I dont notice any weakness or anything but it is true .. this is designed for to eat the necessary calories for a healthier you! Thanks for posting! I really enjoyed all the comments too thus far! .. Ill be like some of you & have to force myself to snack or eat PEANUT BUTTER! Good luck to all of you! 0
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Well OP, that's your view and you are more then welcome to it.
My 1500-1700 (My Dairy is open for anyone to look at it) calorie per day diet was approved by my GP and approved by a nutritionist as well (and I was told by both to not eat back exercise calories). My usual "net" calories are under 1000. I've been doing it for almost 2 full months now and have 0 issues with hunger, weakness, etc. The weight is continuing to come off and I feel just fine.
You have to take into account the amount of weight a person is trying to lose before saying a lower net is dangerous/wrong/incorrect, etc. A larger person like myself will not go into starvation mode eating 1,500 calories. My body has more then enough stores for it to pull against to feed itself during my weight loss. To make sure I don't shed lean muscle mass my diet is high in protein (I shoot for a minimum of 180 grams per day) and I lift weights at least 4 x a week on top of my cardio. So I seriously doubt I am in much danger of my body eating my muscles at the calorie intake I am currently at.0
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