Car-bo-hy-drate.

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Replies

  • mmapags
    mmapags Posts: 8,934 Member

    With all due respect, your info on burning fat instead of carbs for glycogen replacement is just plain wrong. Fat is not a substitute for glycogen for endurance or other higher intensity activities. Anyone who thinks it is should try it and see how you feel after the first mile or so. Also, see how well you recover. Also, Attia is a just plain quack!

    Here's a link to a study showing exactly what I stated: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0026049583901063
    Pedal ergometer testing of maximal oxygen uptake (V̇O2max) was unchanged between the control week (EBD-1) and week 3 of the ketogenic diet (EKD-3). The mean ergometer endurance time for continuous exercise to exhaustion (ENDUR) at 62%–64% of V̇O2max was 147 minutes at EBD-1 and 151 minutes at EKD-4. The ENDUR steady-state RQ dropped from 0.83 to 0.72 (P < 0.01) from EBD-1 to EKD-4. In agreement with this were a three-fold drop in glucose oxidation (from 15.1 to 5.1 mg/kg/min, P < 0.05) and a four-fold reduction in muscle glycogen use (0.61 to 0.13 mmol/kg/min, P < 0.01). Neither clinical nor biochemical evidence of hypoglycemia was observed during ENDUR at EKD-4. These results indicate that aerobic endurance exercise by well-trained cyclists was not compromised by four weeks of ketosis. This was accomplished by a dramatic physiologic adaptation that conserved limited carbohydrate stores (both glucose and muscle glycogen) and made fat the predominant muscle substrate at this submaximal power level.

    Well that's conclusive based on a whopping total sample of 5 cyclists and no high carb control group. Seriously?
  • kaervaak
    kaervaak Posts: 274 Member
    Well that's conclusive based on a whopping total sample of 5 cyclists and no high carb control group. Seriously?

    OK, sure. Criticism noted.
    Here's some more:

    http://www.springerlink.com/content/k4l6436785p5v354/
    Again, only a sample size of 5 trained cyclists, but they did have a high carb control.

    These results would suggest that 2 weeks of adaptation to a high- fat diet would result in an enhanced resistance to fatigue and significant sparing of endogenous carbohydrate during low to moderate intensity exercise in a relatively glycogen-depleted sate and unimpaired performance during high intensity exercise.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC371554/
    6 subjects this time, 5 female, 1 male, all overweight and untrained.

    The low RQ and the fact that blood glucose and muscle glycogen were maintained during exhausting exercise after 6 wk of a PSF suggest that prolonged ketosis results in an adaptation, after which lipid becomes the major metabolic fuel, and net carbohydrate utilization is markedly reduced during moderate but ultimately exhausting exercise.

    I could find more I'm sure, but 3 peer reviewed studies that come to the same conclusion are enough for me.
  • TheVimFuego
    TheVimFuego Posts: 2,412 Member
    I do it because it works for me and it's backed by science.
  • mmapags
    mmapags Posts: 8,934 Member
    Well that's conclusive based on a whopping total sample of 5 cyclists and no high carb control group. Seriously?

    OK, sure. Criticism noted.
    Here's some more:

    http://www.springerlink.com/content/k4l6436785p5v354/
    Again, only a sample size of 5 trained cyclists, but they did have a high carb control.

    These results would suggest that 2 weeks of adaptation to a high- fat diet would result in an enhanced resistance to fatigue and significant sparing of endogenous carbohydrate during low to moderate intensity exercise in a relatively glycogen-depleted sate and unimpaired performance during high intensity exercise.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC371554/
    6 subjects this time, 5 female, 1 male, all overweight and untrained.

    The low RQ and the fact that blood glucose and muscle glycogen were maintained during exhausting exercise after 6 wk of a PSF suggest that prolonged ketosis results in an adaptation, after which lipid becomes the major metabolic fuel, and net carbohydrate utilization is markedly reduced during moderate but ultimately exhausting exercise.

    I could find more I'm sure, but 3 peer reviewed studies that come to the same conclusion are enough for me.

    These would be better how? Sample size is just as small. One has a control group, one does not. 2nd study is with obese and untrained subjects. They would show improvement just by going from an untrained to a trained state.You are going to chose to believe whatever supports your already formed conclusion and find whatever questionable study you can to support that. That is your perogative.

    To those weighing both sides of this issue, I'd ask what do thousands of proffesional atheletes whose pay depends on their performace do? Low carb or maintain glycogen stores for max exercise performance and max maintainence of lean muscle tissue?
  • Jules2Be
    Jules2Be Posts: 2,238 Member
    Are there carbs in Scooby Snacks?
  • LorinaLynn
    LorinaLynn Posts: 13,247 Member
    I don't limit my carbs - I had pizza last night, and I'm having mac & cheese and a baked potato tonight - but I make sure I'm close to my 50% carbs, 25% each fat & protein, ratios.

    Someone who has adverse reactions to carbs, whether it's intensified cravings, diabetes, or a gluten intolerance, would be wise to limit them. Everyone else? Enjoy! :smile:
  • kaervaak
    kaervaak Posts: 274 Member

    These would be better how? Sample size is just as small. One has a control group, one does not. 2nd study is with obese and untrained subjects. They would show improvement just by going from an untrained to a trained state.You are going to chose to believe whatever supports your already formed conclusion and find whatever questionable study you can to support that. That is your perogative.

    To those weighing both sides of this issue, I'd ask what do thousands of proffesional atheletes whose pay depends on their performace do? Low carb or maintain glycogen stores for max exercise performance and max maintainence of lean muscle tissue?

    This debate has never been about professional athletes. You made the claim that my information on the way that fat stores can be used as a replacement for glycogen in keto-adapted people was wrong. I was simply attempting to rebut that argument by presenting you with at the very least, anecdotal evidence from a number of different sources that supported my claim.
  • 70davis
    70davis Posts: 348 Member
    Bump
  • davidsgirl145
    davidsgirl145 Posts: 162 Member
    I'm pretty sick of worrying about it. No offense at all to anyone who does. I've just worried myself to death aboout it. I just want to eat as healthy as i can and lose weight. Honestly, there was a time when I didn't know what a carb was. I was active and I ate when I was hungry..end of story. Somewhere along the way, I stopped doing that and became obsessed with all the ratios. (and got fat). I don't have a medical condition (except, maybe over obsessing, lol), so I'm going to eat what I want in whatever ratio it turns out to be. (as long as I'm making the best choices I can for that day... And BE ACTIVE! :smile: there, I said my peace. lol
  • davidsgirl145
    davidsgirl145 Posts: 162 Member
    Oh, and I can not state ANYthing on professional athletes/runners. I ran the whole way around a track once and just about threw a party. lol
  • onedayillbeamilf
    onedayillbeamilf Posts: 966 Member
    Aww. I thought this was going to be a thread breaking all the macros into syllables. :(

    Pro-tein
  • myfitnessval
    myfitnessval Posts: 687 Member
    I limit carbs because foods with carbs generally have a lot of calories too, and they don't really fill me up. But I'm not a super low carb person or anything. 40% of my intake is carbs.

    this pretty much. i have a carb addiction so even limiting my intake to 40 is pretty tough but i basically cut out the stuff thats not good for me and replace it with higher fiber things.
  • splucy
    splucy Posts: 353
    I don't know about everybody else but I crash sooooo badly if I don't get a good source of carbs for breakfast/lunch.

    At night time, I avoid carbs and this is because I have heard that carbs = energy and sleeping converts that unused energy in to fat. Hey, I could be wrong! but I also find that I sleep better this way.
  • splucy
    splucy Posts: 353
    in saying that, I really do depend on energy around 6pm as that is when I go to the gym.

    If I do not intend on going to the gym or anything, then I tend to have a lower carb lunch like a salad.
  • jppd47
    jppd47 Posts: 737 Member
    I have heard that carbs = energy and sleeping converts that unused energy in to fat. Hey, I could be wrong! but I also find that I sleep better this way.

    Well if thats the case, fat and protein also= energy so you should avoid them at night too.

    nothing to worry about there, if you eat a surplus your body will store, if not it will uses wheat it needs to fuel you

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