guns or no guns?

PixiePickle

Ya because these shootings ONLY happen in the US.....

They don't happen here! It's great. Only shootings in Ireland are drug dealers ****ing each other up

No they just try and blow each other up:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/apr/09/northern-ireland-bomb-attempt

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-17877896

you clearly want a one size fits all solution

i hate to break it to you. but people will inevitably die. they will be shot, stabbed, raped, dismembered, tortured, crashed, exploded, etc.

you have to break it down piece by piece though, start a thread about explosive awareness if you are really THAT interested in it.

Oh and mass shootings do happen in Ireland:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Massereene_Barracks_shooting

there are a few linked in that article.

Erm, that was in a different country.

Yep, in Ireland.

Nope, In Northern Ireland. It's a different country.

See? Gimme a sec to post a pretty picture.. no idea how to do it.

ahhahhahha! This made me laugh a lot and totally distracted me from getting all fired up about the actual issue!!! Reading the thread I kept thinking " I wonder if this bloke realizes that he's talking about Ireland but referring constantly to Northern Ireland??"
Oh well, every day is a school day, you're never too old to learn.........:laugh:

LifesPilgrim

I've browsed a few of the posts on this thread, not all of them admittedly. One of the biggest fact I do not see or hear much either here or in the news is that Aurora does NOT allow ANY concealed weapons. NONE, and this guy passed the required background checks.

Pure and simple, for all the laws and everything in place, he got the guns legally, just like anyone else would be able to without a criminal record.

As to the right bear arms I prefer the quote "When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."

-- Thomas Jefferson

I also try to make a policy of avoiding arguements with fools. I'll let you decide who the fool might be.

TheFitFireman

Would you be happier if I moved out of my parents' house and started having a bunch of kids and went on welfare?

Why are talking about kids? He didn't say anything about you having kids, he's making the point that you don't know what real responsibility is while you're still living at home with your parents. You don't even know what the real world is like yet. By the way, you completely ignored my post and never responded...

bkknights

Pro-Gun and Pro-responsible use and ownership of said gun.

Should I be anti-fertilizer so that people can't make home-made bombs to blow the **** out of a building full of inncoent workers. Or would I be wrong because that is not fair to the farmers who use it as it is intended.

Should I be anti-knife so that chefs can properly slice foods or butchers cut meat or even a boy learn to whittle from his grandfather. But wait, don't rapists tend to use knives on their victims?

Should I be anti-bat so that we can't pay Barry Bonds millions of dollars to swing it at a baseball. Better not sell them at a store for some gang member may initiate another one in with a beat-down.

Should I be anti-music/movie/video games-with-violent-themes? Seems those have been blamed for a lot of the rise in underage crime?

Point is just about anything you touch can be used as a weapon. There are always going to be irresponsible people and criminals that are going to use stuff what it is not intended for. Educate yourselves and your family in the proper use of a firearm or any other weapon for that matter.

Why don't we worry about something that would have more of a positive impact on our population? Un-employment? Food shortage? Homeless people?

Instead we are worried about something that is a problem with maybe %0.5 of the population.

I think this is well said. I used to be anti-gun, but then I realized that these things are going to keep happening. Now people are calling for a new ban on assult weapons. The ban was lifted in 2004, but if you recall, some of the most gruesome gang violence in the US was at an all time high in the 80s and 90s. I don't have a perfect solution as we are human and it seems violence against others is in our nature. Its also deeply intrenched in our culture. As a mom of two young children, I am trying to be mindful of limiting violence. If you own a tv or shop at your typical store for toys, forget about it.

My thoughts and prayers go out to all the victims and their families.

StephanieDJL

So you're ok with the gov telling you how you can think. We have a word for that here-drone

How you think? You can think whatever the hell you like, once that thought turns into speech or action that directly affects or infringes on someone else's rights, then there's a problem.

It's already against the law to threaten bodily harm against people. Read his question again, he's not talking about threats etc.
He's talking, at least how I understood it, about all speech. Due process is where you get the right to a trial.

Okay, thanks, definitely not getting into that one! I didn't mean direct threats, I meant the fact that individuals are able to cause distress through their idiocy. To use my previous example, protesting at a funeral saying that the deceased was a '*kitten* who deserved to die' isn't necessarily threatening but it is rude & disrespectful. Sure, I disagree with the Westboro Baptist Church, as I'm sure most sane people do, but I don't care if they genuinely do think 'God hates *kitten*' or even if they have anti-society parties every damn day, just as long as they keep it to themselves.

angryguy77

While those with the freedom to own, purchase, carry the extreme type of assault guns, when do the rest of us get to have the right to pursue LIFE, liberty and happiness?

When your rights trumps another person's rights, then something is very wrong with the system and it needs to be fixed now.

There will always be kooks that take out their anger on other people, but with just a handgun that needs to be reloaded, at least the chances for killing more than one person is greatly reduced. We need to have the rights to not be fish in a barrel for the next one.

If you had someone close to you that was killed this senselessly, you'd want these automatic weapons gone. If we don't stop this, we will end up arming all of us until all hell breaks out and we shoot each other until someone launches their shoulder held dirty bomb launcher. Where will it stop?

49 states allow conceal carry, yet these instances don't happen all that much when you compare the numbers.

Would you be for mandating private/public pools only be of a certain depth? Thousands die to drowning unnecessarily. i know how to swim, but my right to swim shouldn't be an excuse to recklessly endanger others.

fiveohmike

So for the anti-gun people:

Lets say the US Government bans guns tomorrow.

Who has guns at that point?

Are we safer if they ban all guns tomorrow?



*There are an estimated 300 Million guns in the US.

angryguy77

So you're ok with the gov telling you how you can think. We have a word for that here-drone

How you think? You can think whatever the hell you like, once that thought turns into speech or action that directly affects or infringes on someone else's rights, then there's a problem.

It's already against the law to threaten bodily harm against people. Read his question again, he's not talking about threats etc.
He's talking, at least how I understood it, about all speech. Due process is where you get the right to a trial.
[/quote]

Okay, thanks, definitely not getting into that one! I didn't mean direct threats, I meant the fact that individuals are able to cause distress through their idiocy. To use my previous example, protesting at a funeral saying that the deceased was a '*kitten* who deserved to die' isn't necessarily threatening but it is rude & disrespectful. Sure, I disagree with the Westboro Baptist Church, as I'm sure most sane people do, but I don't care if they genuinely do think 'God hates *kitten*' or even if they have anti-society parties every damn day, just as long as they keep it to themselves.
[/quote]

Essentially you want the freedom from being offended and annoyed. Who determines what is good and bad then? You will have no free speech then, which never leads to anything good. I disagree with them as well, they're trash and give Christians a bad name, but for every WBC, there are groups that protests for good causes.

animatorswearbras

Very interesting conversation looking in from a country with no guns (actually we do have some guns but they are under extraordinarily strict regulation)

My opinion is just to share my UK point of view which you can chose to ignore.

Basically I do feel safer knowing it's extremely difficult to obtain guns in my country by anyone, don't get me wrong we still have violent crime, it's just more people tend to walk away from a fist fight (or even a knife) then a shooting hence why UK murder rate is (per 100,000 people) a quarter of that of the US and since about two thirds of murders in the US are by firearms I think that may go some way to explain it.

I don't want to tell the US what they can and can't do (as some peeps get a tad defensive about a foreign point of view even if it's a fair argument) I'm just saying in my country I hope guns are never reintroduced, we're not perfect or morally superior, but it's so easy to kill someone with a gun when an argument gets heated. Out of curiosity however would it be so wrong to have stricter regulation on gun ownership in the US, ie mental health issues, violent record, guns must be kept in a safe, only shotguns and rifles no handguns etc etc

x

fiveohmike

Very interesting conversation looking in from a country with no guns (actually we do have some guns but they are under extraordinarily strict regulation)

My opinion is just to share my UK point of view which you can chose to ignore.

Basically I do feel safer knowing it's extremely difficult to obtain guns in my country by anyone, don't get me wrong we still have violent crime, it's just more people tend to walk away from a fist fight (or even a knife) then a shooting hence why UK murder rate is (per 100,000 people) a quarter of that of the US and since about two thirds of murders in the US are by firearms I think that may go some way to explain it.

I don't want to tell the US what they can and can't do (as some peeps get a tad defensive about a foreign point of view even if it's a fair argument) I'm just saying in my country I hope guns are never reintroduced, we're not perfect or morally superior, but it's so easy to kill someone with a gun when an argument gets heated. Out of curiosity however would it be so wrong to have stricter regulation on gun ownership in the US, ie mental health issues, violent record, guns must be kept in a safe, only shotguns and rifles no handguns etc etc

x

Its already illegal for a felon, mentally ill, mentally unstable person to own a gun, and at least here in Cali you have to have a gun safe as well.

Capt_Apollo

While those with the freedom to own, purchase, carry the extreme type of assault guns, when do the rest of us get to have the right to pursue LIFE, liberty and happiness?

When your rights trumps another person's rights, then something is very wrong with the system and it needs to be fixed now.

There will always be kooks that take out their anger on other people, but with just a handgun that needs to be reloaded, at least the chances for killing more than one person is greatly reduced. We need to have the rights to not be fish in a barrel for the next one.

If you had someone close to you that was killed this senselessly, you'd want these automatic weapons gone. If we don't stop this, we will end up arming all of us until all hell breaks out and we shoot each other until someone launches their shoulder held dirty bomb launcher. Where will it stop?

"Ah yes, the inalienable rights... Life? What 'right' to life has a man who is drowning in the Pacific? The ocean will not hearken to his cries. What 'right' to life has a man who must die to save his children? If he chooses to save his own life, does he do so as a matter of 'right'? If two men are starving and cannibalism is the only alternative to death, which man's right is 'unalienable'? And is it 'right'? As to liberty, the heroes who signed the great document pledged themselves to buy liberty with their lives. Liberty is never unalienable; it must be redeemed regularly with the blood of patriots or it always vanishes. Of all the so-called natural human rights that have ever been invented, liberty is least likely to be cheap and is never free of cost. The third 'right'?—the 'pursuit of happiness'? It is indeed unalienable but it is not a right; it is simply a universal condition which tyrants cannot take away nor patriots restore. Cast me into a dungeon, burn me at the stake, crown me king of kings, I can 'pursue happiness' as long as my brain lives—but neither gods nor saints, wise men nor subtle drugs, can ensure that I will catch it." - Robert A. Heinlein

StephanieDJL

So you're ok with the gov telling you how you can think. We have a word for that here-drone

How you think? You can think whatever the hell you like, once that thought turns into speech or action that directly affects or infringes on someone else's rights, then there's a problem.

It's already against the law to threaten bodily harm against people. Read his question again, he's not talking about threats etc.
He's talking, at least how I understood it, about all speech. Due process is where you get the right to a trial.

Okay, thanks, definitely not getting into that one! I didn't mean direct threats, I meant the fact that individuals are able to cause distress through their idiocy. To use my previous example, protesting at a funeral saying that the deceased was a '*kitten* who deserved to die' isn't necessarily threatening but it is rude & disrespectful. Sure, I disagree with the Westboro Baptist Church, as I'm sure most sane people do, but I don't care if they genuinely do think 'God hates *kitten*' or even if they have anti-society parties every damn day, just as long as they keep it to themselves.

Essentially you want the freedom from being offended and annoyed. Who determines what is good and bad then? You will have no free speech then, which never leads to anything good. I disagree with them as well, they're trash and give Christians a bad name, but for every WBC, there are groups that protests for good causes.

'Who determines what is good and bad then?' To be obtuse, who determined that murder was bad? Or that homosexuality was? This has gotten way off point and I think it's safe to say we can agree to disagree in regards to guns.

angryguy77

Very interesting conversation looking in from a country with no guns (actually we do have some guns but they are under extraordinarily strict regulation)

My opinion is just to share my UK point of view which you can chose to ignore.

Basically I do feel safer knowing it's extremely difficult to obtain guns in my country by anyone, don't get me wrong we still have violent crime, it's just more people tend to walk away from a fist fight (or even a knife) then a shooting hence why UK murder rate is (per 100,000 people) a quarter of that of the US and since about two thirds of murders in the US are by firearms I think that may go some way to explain it.

I don't want to tell the US what they can and can't do (as some peeps get a tad defensive about a foreign point of view even if it's a fair argument) I'm just saying in my country I hope guns are never reintroduced, we're not perfect or morally superior, but it's so easy to kill someone with a gun when an argument gets heated. Out of curiosity however would it be so wrong to have stricter regulation on gun ownership in the US, ie mental health issues, violent record, guns must be kept in a safe, only shotguns and rifles no handguns etc etc

x

One thing that people miss is the differences in culture. That plays a role in gun violence.

We have laws about felons and people with mental issues from getting guns in most states. We have background checks etc. In this case, the guy didn't have a record, no law would have stopped him. He premeditated the crime, had guns not been available, he would have used other means, I'm sure of it.

I've said this earlier, 49 states allow conceal carry, despite the claims, we are not the wild west. Take a look at the number of guns and people in this country, if guns are so bad, I'd bet my life we would see more instances of this.

here the real reason we have the 2nd amendment. I posted it earlier:

We need not forget what the 2nd ammendment was put in the Bill of Rights for either. It was to give the people the ability to protect themselves from the government if it ever goes rogue. I'm not saying that will ever happen, but nobody can say for sure. Looking back at history, there isn't a whole lot of evidence to say that we can never say "never", or that any government is safe from falling into tyranny. Jefferson said it's the right of the people to dissolve the government if needed, I suspect he meant by using the pen or the sword. Things can't always be solved without the use of force. If we take guns out of the hands of the citizenry, then what stops the gov from overstepping? Sure we can say we have laws, but as we have seen, our laws have been interpreted differently as time moves on. Of course the thought of our government turning oppressive is hard to imagine right now, but we have no idea what our country will look like 100 years down the road. Things might be the same, or they could be worse. History is littered with politicians using emergencies to grab more power. It would be a disservice to succeeding generations if we were to take away their ability to stop an overreaching government.

LifesPilgrim

I do have a question for those in the UK. If everything is so much safer and more peaceful there, why is the government having to develop body armor that will resist stabbings for the police force?

I agree that everything boils down to personal responsibility, and that is seriously lacking here in the US.

I for one am alive today after several situations where I would have been an innocent victim of a violent crime if someone had not had a gun. No, that someone was not me, and I am thinking about changing that.

ItsCasey

To answer the initial question, no guns.

Unless you're in the special forces/police or a farmer/hunter.

Okay. I am a hunter.

Anyone else want to be a hunter?

I'm a hunter, and if someone breaks into my home I'm a hunter of humans. I'm pretty sure that still qualifies as a hunter.

I think hunting is BS but I added it in there to appeal to American ~ideals. Guns aren't necessary for the general public & the argument concerning 'those who couldn't get guns legally would get them illegally' is also crap. Sure a minority would but I'm going to go out on a limb here & assume people like the college guy who just shot up a movie theatre don't have ~connections.

Seriously, why would anybody need a gun?

'omgzzz to protect ourselves!11!' - from what exactly? Oh yeah, other morons with guns...

How about rapists, people with knives, people with anything that could be used as a weapon, people breaking into my home to steal things. Are any of those good enough reasons to own a gun, oh Anointed One?

Oh, I know ... it's not worth taking a criminal's life if he's not actually trying to take mine, right? Well, next time someone breaks into my home in the middle of the night, I'll just ask him if he's there to kill me or rape me, and I'll tell him if he's only there to rape me, I'll put my gun away.

On second thought, I think I'll just not ask any questions, put a bullet through his chest, call the cops to drag his corpse out of my house, and go back to sleep.

xxalmostgoldenxx

I actually think it's a really hard question to answer. Coming from the UK, my knee-jerk reaction is "no guns", since it's (to me at least) seems to be quite an alien concept, however I can understand that people from the US, where guns are much more the norm (I know I'm making huge generalisations here, apologies), being pro-guns might seem reasonable.

StephanieDJL

To answer the initial question, no guns.

Unless you're in the special forces/police or a farmer/hunter.

Okay. I am a hunter.

Anyone else want to be a hunter?

I'm a hunter, and if someone breaks into my home I'm a hunter of humans. I'm pretty sure that still qualifies as a hunter.

I think hunting is BS but I added it in there to appeal to American ~ideals. Guns aren't necessary for the general public & the argument concerning 'those who couldn't get guns legally would get them illegally' is also crap. Sure a minority would but I'm going to go out on a limb here & assume people like the college guy who just shot up a movie theatre don't have ~connections.

Seriously, why would anybody need a gun?

'omgzzz to protect ourselves!11!' - from what exactly? Oh yeah, other morons with guns...

How about rapists, people with knives, people with anything that could be used as a weapon, people breaking into my home to steal things. Are any of those good enough reasons to own a gun, oh Anointed One?

Oh, I know ... it's not worth taking a criminal's life if he's not actually trying to take mine, right? Well, next time someone breaks into my home in the middle of the night, I'll just ask him if he's there to kill me or rape me, and I'll tell him if he's only there to rape me, I'll put my gun away.

On second thought, I think I'll just not ask any questions, put a bullet through his chest, call the cops to drag his corpse out of my house, and go back to sleep.

Do people frequently break into your home? If so, what's to stop them shooting you first? Unless you sleep with a loaded gun in your hand...

What about drive by shootings? School shootings? Or just being shot while you're innocently enjoying a movie? Imagine you're in a situation where a moron is intent on mass murder, shooting at anything that moves, everyone pulls out a gun & starts shooting, is there going to be more or less chaos?

Stranger danger is hyped up by the media and there's a higher chance of you getting raped or killed by someone you know.

Pacileo4Evers

wow this page isn't locked yet? crazy ha!

fiveohmike

To answer the initial question, no guns.

Unless you're in the special forces/police or a farmer/hunter.

Okay. I am a hunter.

Anyone else want to be a hunter?

I'm a hunter, and if someone breaks into my home I'm a hunter of humans. I'm pretty sure that still qualifies as a hunter.

I think hunting is BS but I added it in there to appeal to American ~ideals. Guns aren't necessary for the general public & the argument concerning 'those who couldn't get guns legally would get them illegally' is also crap. Sure a minority would but I'm going to go out on a limb here & assume people like the college guy who just shot up a movie theatre don't have ~connections.

Seriously, why would anybody need a gun?

'omgzzz to protect ourselves!11!' - from what exactly? Oh yeah, other morons with guns...

How about rapists, people with knives, people with anything that could be used as a weapon, people breaking into my home to steal things. Are any of those good enough reasons to own a gun, oh Anointed One?

Oh, I know ... it's not worth taking a criminal's life if he's not actually trying to take mine, right? Well, next time someone breaks into my home in the middle of the night, I'll just ask him if he's there to kill me or rape me, and I'll tell him if he's only there to rape me, I'll put my gun away.

On second thought, I think I'll just not ask any questions, put a bullet through his chest, call the cops to drag his corpse out of my house, and go back to sleep.

Do people frequently break into your home? If so, what's to stop them shooting you first? Unless you sleep with a loaded gun in your hand...

What about drive by shootings? School shootings? Or just being shot while you're innocently enjoying a movie? Imagine you're in a situation where a moron is intent on mass murder, shooting at anything that moves, everyone pulls out a gun & starts shooting, is there going to be more or less chaos?

Stranger danger is hyped up by the media and there's a higher chance of you getting raped or killed by someone you know.

My aunt was murdered in her own home in an upscale neighborhood. Keep telling me that this **** doesnt happen you ignorant ****.

FretheMJsmokingcannibal

To answer the initial question, no guns.

Unless you're in the special forces/police or a farmer/hunter.

Okay. I am a hunter.

Anyone else want to be a hunter?

I'm a hunter, and if someone breaks into my home I'm a hunter of humans. I'm pretty sure that still qualifies as a hunter.

I think hunting is BS but I added it in there to appeal to American ~ideals. Guns aren't necessary for the general public & the argument concerning 'those who couldn't get guns legally would get them illegally' is also crap. Sure a minority would but I'm going to go out on a limb here & assume people like the college guy who just shot up a movie theatre don't have ~connections.

Seriously, why would anybody need a gun?

'omgzzz to protect ourselves!11!' - from what exactly? Oh yeah, other morons with guns...

How about rapists, people with knives, people with anything that could be used as a weapon, people breaking into my home to steal things. Are any of those good enough reasons to own a gun, oh Anointed One?

Oh, I know ... it's not worth taking a criminal's life if he's not actually trying to take mine, right? Well, next time someone breaks into my home in the middle of the night, I'll just ask him if he's there to kill me or rape me, and I'll tell him if he's only there to rape me, I'll put my gun away.

On second thought, I think I'll just not ask any questions, put a bullet through his chest, call the cops to drag his corpse out of my house, and go back to sleep.

Thank you, Jq.

Oh and the person Jq was quoting. I hate to break it to you, the only one full of BS. Is you. They will find away to get guns illegally. People get weed even though there are HUGE crack downs on it and IT IS ILLEGAL. Even if they don't have connections already, they will find connections. Another thing the only moron here is you, only an idiot would think a gun is the only weapon used in a crime. As Jq said we're protecting ourselves not from azzholes with illegally obtained guns. We're protecting ourselves from rapists with knives and people with other types of weapons. We have every good reason to have a damn gun. You don't like it. Don't buy a gun.

Just because my house isn't broken into regularly doesn't mean it won't be broken into at all. I'm sorry, I'd rather be prepared because even though there is not a guarantee that doesn't mean I don't have chance.