Life on Mars

Laces_0ut

But whats the point of making it warm if you cant make the air breathable? Also its not self sustaining. At least if it were powered by vulcanism we wouldnt need to maintain it. Take away the factories or run out of energy, and the planet dies again. Doesnt seem worth the costs.

the point is you do both. you make it warmer and breathable. and those factories and energy will run a long time. by the time we are able to do this who knows what kind of energy sources we will be tapping into. Dyson Sphere?

as for being worth the cost...we might think that it is worth the cost if Earth is facing destruction or if we need the extra space or resources.

and maybe we'll do it just because we can.

xarge

But whats the point of making it warm if you cant make the air breathable? Also its not self sustaining. At least if it were powered by vulcanism we wouldnt need to maintain it. Take away the factories or run out of energy, and the planet dies again. Doesnt seem worth the costs.

Plus, it's still taking too long. With or without the released CO2. And nuclear factories, really? As much as I love NASA for its enthusiasm, building Endeavor costed $1.7 billion. Does a distant alien cousin lending us his cargo ships?

And we cry when they blow the Earth up for the new highway...

Rhea30

Sorry it doesn't work that way. I

Mars died. One of the reasons why Earth has is able to maintain a thick atmosphere is because it has a hot circulating iron core that creates a magnetic field around it. This field deflects solar radiation that would otherwise strip the atmosphere from the surface. Long ago, Mars also had a hot core and a magnetic field. It had a thick CO2 atmosphere which made it warm enough for liquid water to exist. But because its much smaller, its core cooled off a lot quicker and its magnetic field disappeared. This left no protection from the sun. Slowly over time, the atmosphere and surface water was stripped from the surface by solar radiation, leaving behind the cold desolate desert and barely any atmosphere (about 1% of Earth)

So, you cant "add air" to Mars. Its core is dead. Even if you could, adding oxygen might make it breathable but not warmer. Its not a greenhouse gas. Mars needs a thick greenhouse gas environment of CO2 to be warm because of its distance from the sun.

Yeah, geeky.

I am not a planetary scientist. lol

actually that is the way terraforming works...

grabbed one of the first searches i found and there are countless others discussing how to make Mars livable. nobody is suggesting oxygen alone will do the trick.

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2001/ast09feb_1/

"That depends," says Marinova, "on how fast we make the gases." According to rough calculations, "if you had 100 factories, each having the energy of a nuclear reactor, working for 100 years, you could warm Mars six to eight degrees." At that rate, to increase the average Martian temperature to the melting point of water -- it's about minus 55 degrees Celsius now -- would take about eight centuries. Actually, it wouldn't take quite that long, Marinova points out, because her calculation doesn't include the feedback effect of the CO2 that would be released as Mars got steadily warmer. "Devising more efficient artificial super-greenhouse gases will also make it faster," Marinova adds

The planet Venus, for instance, has a chokingly thick atmosphere, but no magnetic field to protect it against the wind from the nearby Sun. Every planetary atmosphere is a balance between "sources and sinks." If some process (like volcanism) pumps gas into the atmosphere at a rate that substantially exceeds solar wind loses, the atmosphere will persist. The equilibrium on Venus happens to favor a thick atmosphere."

But whats the point of making it warm if you cant make the air breathable? Also its not self sustaining. At least if it were powered by vulcanism we wouldnt need to maintain it. Take away the factories or run out of energy, and the planet dies again. Doesnt seem worth the costs.

I'm jumping late on this and haven't read the whole thing but if you're wondering if its worth the cost with what they are doing with space it really is. Economist agree that we get more from the space program then what we put in it, its an investment, by how much they disagree but all agree it does help the US's economy because of the technology that comes from NASA which then private businesses can pick up on and create a business with. If this wasn't at all what you were referring to then my apologies.

wolfpack77

But whats the point of making it warm if you cant make the air breathable? Also its not self sustaining. At least if it were powered by vulcanism we wouldnt need to maintain it. Take away the factories or run out of energy, and the planet dies again. Doesnt seem worth the costs.

the point is you do both. you make it warmer and breathable. and those factories and energy will run a long time. by the time we are able to do this who knows what kind of energy sources we will be tapping into. Dyson Sphere?

as for being worth the cost...we might think that it is worth the cost if Earth is facing destruction or if we need the extra space or resources.

and maybe we'll do it just because we can.

I would think that if we have the energy and capablity to fix Mars that we should be able to fix the Earth first. IMO Mars may be a good stepping stone for learning how to live in and explore alien environments, but its no replacement for Earth. Our homeworld is are best most precious resource. Seems like a waste to put our efforts into a place like Mars without fixing our issues here first.

I fully support our space exploration programs, but if NASA announced tomorrow that they were starting a terraforming operation on Mars I just couldnt support it. Priorities.

neverstray

Wait..

Stop...

There a meteor headed for earth? Why is this not news? WTF!

I know we get near misses all the time. Actually, it's quite scary. But, there one on its way that might destroy us?

neverstray

Here are just a few products and technologies created by the space program. I used to work on an aspect of the space program, and my father worked on it his whole life, so it's near and dear to my heart. My favorite discovery or invention is Velcro. But, here's the list. In short, amazing. Anyone who thinks that space exploration was a waste of time needs to be more educated about what came out of it:


360 Degree Camera
3-D Synthetic Vision Flight Displays
Advanced Hydrogen Sensors
Advanced Lubricants
Advanced Welding Torch
Aerodynamic Bicycle Wheels
Air Catalysts for Carbon Monoxide Poisoning
Aircraft Collision Avoidance
Aircraft Design Analysis
Airline Wheelchairs
Airliner TV Transmission Via Satellite
AiroCide TiO2 Air Purifier
Anthrax Smoke Detector
Arteriosclerosis Detection
Artificial Heart
Astronaut Plant Bag
Athletic Shoes
Audiometric System for Hearing Assessment
Automated Urinalysis
Automatic Insulin Pump
Automotive Design

Automotive Insulation
BAFCO Linear Actuators
Balance Evaluation System
Biomass Production System for Education
Bioreactor Demonstration System
Bioreactor Human Tissue Growth
Bone Analyzer
Breast Biopsy
Breast Cancer Screening
Bridge Safety Improvements
Cabin Pressure Altitude Monitor and Warning System
Camera on a Chip
Cardiac Pacemaker
Cataract Surgery Tools
Chemical Warfare Hood
Chromosome Analysis
Clean Room Apparel
Clean Water for Homes
Coastal Zone Color Scanner
Compact Blood Diagnostic Equipment
Compact Fire and Rescue Extraction Devices
Composite Forceps
Composite Materials Development – Golf Clubs
Computer Joysticks
Computer-Aided Tomography (CAT Scanner)

Computer Reader for the Blind
Convection Oven
Cool Vest Therapeutic Suits
Cordless Power Tools and Appliances
Corporate Jet Wing Designs
Corrosion Protection Coating
Crop Dusting Improvements
Crop Growing Improvements
DeBakey Heart Pump
Dental Arch Wire
Digital Mammography
Diving Optical Profiler
DMI Remote Sensing Fish-Finding Service
Doppler Radar
Ear Thermometer
Edible Toothpaste
Electric Car
Emission Testing
Emulsified Zero-Valent Iron Remediation
Energy Storage Systems
Engine Coatings
Engine Design
Engine Lubricant
Failsafe Flashlight
Fetal Heart Monitor
Fire Detection Systems
Firefighter Breathing System
Firefighter Radios
Firefighting Equipment
Fireman’s Air Tanks
Fitness Equipment
Flame Detector
Foam-In-Place Seating Technology
Freeze Drying Technologies
Gas Detector
Gasoline Vapor Recovery
Geosynchronous Orbiting
Golf Ball Aerodynamics
GPS Navigation
Helmet Padding
High Temperature Soldering Blocks
High-Pressure Waterstripping
Historical Document Condition Analysis
Home Insulation
Human Tissue Stimulator
Implantable Heart Aid
Improved Aircraft Engines
Inertial Motion-Tracking for Virtual Reality
Infrared Camera
Infrared Thermometer
Insulation
Insulin Pumps
Interactive Computer Training
InTime Agricultural Remote Sensing
Invisible Braces
Kidney Dialysis
Land Mine Removal Device
Laser Angioplasty
Laser Heart Surgery
Laser Wire Stripper
Lead Poison Detection
Lifeshears – Emergency Rescue Cutters
Lightning Protection
Low Vision Enhancement System (LVES)
Lubricant Coating Process
Machine Tool Software
Magnetic Bearing System
Magnetic Liquids
Magnetic Resonance Imaging
Medical Gas Analyzer
Methane-Powered Vehicles
Microelectromechanical Systems
Microlasers
Miniature Accelerometers
Modified Carbon Nanotube Materials
Ocean Fluorometer
Ocular Screening
Oil Spill Control
PackBot Tactical Mobile Robot
Palate Surgery Technology
Personal Storm Warning System
Pesticide-Free Mosquito Killing System
Phenotype MicroArray
Photodynamic Therapy
Physical Therapy
Pill Sized Transmitter
Plantronics Wireless Communications Devices
Portable X-Ray Device
Precision Lightning Strike Location System
Programmable Pacemaker
PRO-SAN Non-Toxic Microbicidal Santizer
Prosthesis Material
Protective Clothing
PureSense Water and Air Purification Systems
Quartz Clock
Radiant Barrier Technology
Radiation Hazard Detector
Real-Time Emergency Action Coordination Tool
Remote Controlled Light Switch
Remote Command and Control Appliances
Ribbed Swimsuit
Robotic Arms
Robotic Hands
Satellite Computer Data Transmission
Satellite Computer Image Transmission
Satellite Crop Growth & Monitoring
Satellite Fishing Technology
Satellite Stabilization
Satellite Telephone Signal Transmission
Satellite TV Transmission
School Bus Improvements
Secure Mobile Router System
Self-Locking Fasteners
Self-Righting Life Raft
Ski Boots
Skin Care Product Effectiveness Technology
Smoke Detector Improvements
Smoke Penetrating Forest Fire Analysis
Solar Power Technologies
Solid State High-Power Transmitters
Space Pens
SpiraFlex Resistance Exercise Device
Stadium Roofing Fabric
Standing Wave Reflectometer Wire Analyzer
Studless Winter Tires
Sunglasses Blocking Harmful Rays
Surgical Brain Tumor Probe
Temper Foam Technology
Temperature Pill
Thermal Gloves and Boots
Thermal Protection Insulation
Three-dimensional Thermal Tomography in Radiation Oncology
Tire Deflating Devices – MagnumSpike
Tollbooth Air Purification
Ultrasound Scanners
Ultrasound Skin Damage Assesment
VEGGIE – Deployable Vegetable System
Vehicle Brake Improvements
Vehicle Tracking
Velcro
Video Stabilization
Virtual Reality
Vision Screening System
Voice Controlled Wheelchair
Warfighter Accelerated Recovery
Waste Heat Energy Conversion
Waste Water Purification
Water Purification
Weight Saving Composite Materials
Welding Sensor System
Whale Tracking Technologies
Windshear Prediction
WindTracer for Tracking Aircraft Wake Vortices
Wireless Communications
ZipNut

They had to solve so many problems, that they created all these things in the process.

On to the very expensive toilet that NASA had to defend. I love how our VP described it in a meeting once when the controversey over a $50,000 toilet was published in the papers. He said, and I quote in an angry tone, he looks around the room during a silence after a question about a $50,000 toilet comes up, and he says, "has anyone here ever taken a *kitten* in outer space?" first there was silence, then laughter. Of course not, so you can't possibly understand the complexity of the situation. That's one very basic situation that I was involved with. When there's no gravity, the *kitten* doesn't fall down. You have to create vacuum and then we had a problem with it lumping in one spot so we had to create a spreader arm to spread it evenly in the potty holer. I mean, it's amazing the problems you encounter.

neverstray

As far the OPs question, I would not go to Mars unless my children came with me. If I didn't have children, I be the first in line. I love a good adventure.

Laces_0ut

I would think that if we have the energy and capablity to fix Mars that we should be able to fix the Earth first. IMO Mars may be a good stepping stone for learning how to live in and explore alien environments, but its no replacement for Earth. Our homeworld is are best most precious resource. Seems like a waste to put our efforts into a place like Mars without fixing our issues here first.

I fully support our space exploration programs, but if NASA announced tomorrow that they were starting a terraforming operation on Mars I just couldnt support it. Priorities.

i couldnt support it right now either. but i do support manned missions to Mars right now.

Tony_Brewski

Efffin a right I would! Why not? Dude its Mars!

MattTheWaterRat

Humans will have to go to other planets, and probably soon, to survive as a species. This one will be giving out soon and won't be able to support us for much longer. We have maybe 10 more generations left, out the outside.

Having said that, no I would not go to Mars. I'm too old and uneducated. We need young folks who can have lots babies to emigrate.

i agree with you in the long term but there is nothing to indicate that we only have 10 generations left on Earth.

why do you say that?

I agree with the former. The human species will reach a carry capacity in the future, and space colonization done the right way may help us.

Btw, I think there is an another object in our solar system that already has life. Titan's colorful cracks in its frozen surface could be microbes.

halobender

There a meteor headed for earth? Why is this not news? WTF!

I know we get near misses all the time. Actually, it's quite scary. But, there one on its way that might destroy us?

There's always a meteor headed for Earth that *might* hit us. For some reason it's always 20-30 years off. And then when that 20-30 years is up, "Oh, it missed us by about 120,000 miles" or something similar.

But yeah, I was actually checking that out after the mention (mostly because someone then dismissed it as a conspiracy theory ... sigh) and there is one that is slated for just around 28 years and scientists are talking about how to potentially deflect it. There is a 1 in 500 chance that it will hit Earth on February 5, 2040.

... Of course, that could just mean it may instead happen on February 6th! Or not at all.

e; Oh, it's called 2011 AG5

Melanie_RS

There IS life on mars...in the form of extremophiles.

Has anyone read the book First Contact: Scientific Breakthroughs in the Hunt for Life Beyond Earth by Marc Kaufman?

it's just sad that while we've found extremophiles, people went ahead and changed the meaning of "life" ... we want "life" as we know it and can utilize, but I say, let's exploit that bacteria. who knows what we might end up with!!

anyway it was a good read. I doubt we'll live up there or transplant oxygen. we're looking at it all wrong.

MattTheWaterRat

I agree with the former. The human species will reach a carry capacity in the future, and space colonization done the right way may help us.

Btw, I think there is an another object in our solar system that already has life. Titan's colorful cracks in its frozen surface could be microbes.

I was talking about Europa. I hope that nobody holds this against me.

vfnmoody

I wouldn't, there are long term effects of lower gravity. For you and me, after growing up here we'd be fine. But our kids and kids' kids would be much weaker in terms of muscle mass and bone density, and they would also be taller.

Relative to each other it would feel like comparing between two people on earth, but comparing someone who grew up on mars to someone from earth, the person from mars would be fragile and weak.

unless they workout

Working out won't matter, they'll still be fragile and weak compared to us. Same way if life lived on a larger planet, they'd be shorter and stronger.

work out in centrifuge producing a gravity effect
Hamster wheel on its side.

galaxyhearts

Hahaha

It's great to be interested in space exploration, but I can guarantee that most of the people who read this thread already support funding those kinds of endeavors. We need some kind of viral campaign that will reach the general (and sometimes uneducated) public before there would ever be the kind of funding necessary to successfully research a way to colonize another planet in or out of our solar system.

And to the girl who said we should worry about earth before we invade another planet.. Face. Palm.

Part of the problems with the general consumption of human beings on earth is that it disturbs the natural ecosystem. Since Mars is basically a dead planet.. there's not very much to destroy. It is actually kind of an ideal situation - but currently, it doesn't matter either way because that kind of advancement is out of our grasp.

MiCool90

Maybe they should be working on curing cancer or idiotism. Something useful.

May some mineral on Mars holds the cure for cancer...

thedancingleper

Hahaha

It's great to be interested in space exploration, but I can guarantee that most of the people who read this thread already support funding those kinds of endeavors. We need some kind of viral campaign that will reach the general (and sometimes uneducated) public before there would ever be the kind of funding necessary to successfully research a way to colonize another planet in or out of our solar system.

And to the girl who said we should worry about earth before we invade another planet.. Face. Palm.

Part of the problems with the general consumption of human beings on earth is that it disturbs the natural ecosystem. Since Mars is basically a dead planet.. there's not very much to destroy. It is actually kind of an ideal situation - but currently, it doesn't matter either way because that kind of advancement is out of our grasp.

Actually colonization on mars isn't beyond our grasp, it is something that's definitely planned... except the whole thing is funded by a private corporation and it's a one-way trip.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2154336/New-Mars-One-mission-aims-establish-human-colony-Red-Planet-2023.html

zombiesama

Maybe they should be working on curing cancer or idiotism. Something useful.

Oh, or making Pokemon real.
-wtk

Agreed, that way i can have a dog that breathes fire. lol

thedancingleper

I thought this quote from A Clockwork Orange was appropriate... haha

"It's a stinking world because there's no law and order anymore! It's a stinking world because it lets the young get on to the old, like you done. Oh, it's no world for an old man any longer. What sort of a world is it at all? Men on the moon, and men spinning around the earth, and there's not no attention paid to earthly law and order no more. "