Over training.
chivalryder
Posts: 4,391 Member
Hey all,
I felt like making this post because I am seeing more and more people on here who are going crazy with their workouts. I see some people who go for long runs in the morning, P90X or Inanity in the afternoon, and strength train in the evening, then get 6 hours of sleep or less, just to do it again the next day, without taking a full day off for rest.
I won't try to convince them to pull back, because it's not my place, but I feel it would be wise to share some good information with everyone on here.
By working out at a high intensity, or ramping up your workouts quickly, especially without good rest, puts you at high risk of over training. Over training is simply when you put your body through more stress than it is accustomed to for an extended period of time. The symptoms of over training are as follows:
Common Warning Signs and Symptoms of Overtraining Syndrome
- Washed-out feeling, tired, drained, lack of energy
- Mild leg soreness, general aches and pains
- Pain in muscles and joints
- Sudden drop in performance
- Insomnia
- Headaches
- Decreased immunity (increased number of colds, and sore throats)
- Decrease in training capacity / intensity
- Moodiness and irritability
- Depression
- Loss of enthusiasm for the sport
- Decreased appetite
- Increased incidence of injuries.
- A compulsive need to exercise
http://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/overtraining/a/aa062499a.htm
Most professional athletes have experienced it, as it is a very common occurrence. It is especially common in beginners because they feel the need to workout more and more, in order to burn off the weight as quickly as possible.
The last symptom is especially scary, because if you are over training, you may feel the need to keep pushing harder and harder, while getting upset and depressed with yourself because you aren't getting any faster, and are actually getting slower and weaker.
If you suspect you're suffering any of these symptoms, take a day off and see how you feel the next day. It doesn't take long for you to recover from over training. All you need is rest.
The best way to prevent over training from happening in the first place is to measure your heart rate in the morning, right after you wake up, and before you get out of bed. Simply check it with two fingers over the artery in your neck, and count the number of beat in one minute. I avoid counting more 15 seconds, because multiplying it by 4 increases the risk of error. That is your resting heart rate. It should be consistent every morning, and over time, as you become stronger, it will gradually decrease over time.
If one morning, it is elevated by 5 bpm or more, your body is under stress, and you should take it easy that day. If it is up by 10 bpm or more, then you're either over training, or you have an illness coming on. It is strongly recommended you take that day off and see how you feel the next day.
Keep a log of your waking heart rates. Over time, you will be able to see a trend, and you will learn more about yourself as time goes by. Knowledge is power, and with this power you will be able to train better and harder!
Another way to prevent over training is by starting out EASY, and increasing your intensity, duration, or distance by no more than 10% every week, month, and year. Also give yourself "plateaus" and rest weeks to give your body a break from the ever-increasing stress you are giving it. Do your best to keep all this logged as well so you can look back on it and see how well you're doing!
I felt like making this post because I am seeing more and more people on here who are going crazy with their workouts. I see some people who go for long runs in the morning, P90X or Inanity in the afternoon, and strength train in the evening, then get 6 hours of sleep or less, just to do it again the next day, without taking a full day off for rest.
I won't try to convince them to pull back, because it's not my place, but I feel it would be wise to share some good information with everyone on here.
By working out at a high intensity, or ramping up your workouts quickly, especially without good rest, puts you at high risk of over training. Over training is simply when you put your body through more stress than it is accustomed to for an extended period of time. The symptoms of over training are as follows:
Common Warning Signs and Symptoms of Overtraining Syndrome
- Washed-out feeling, tired, drained, lack of energy
- Mild leg soreness, general aches and pains
- Pain in muscles and joints
- Sudden drop in performance
- Insomnia
- Headaches
- Decreased immunity (increased number of colds, and sore throats)
- Decrease in training capacity / intensity
- Moodiness and irritability
- Depression
- Loss of enthusiasm for the sport
- Decreased appetite
- Increased incidence of injuries.
- A compulsive need to exercise
http://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/overtraining/a/aa062499a.htm
Most professional athletes have experienced it, as it is a very common occurrence. It is especially common in beginners because they feel the need to workout more and more, in order to burn off the weight as quickly as possible.
The last symptom is especially scary, because if you are over training, you may feel the need to keep pushing harder and harder, while getting upset and depressed with yourself because you aren't getting any faster, and are actually getting slower and weaker.
If you suspect you're suffering any of these symptoms, take a day off and see how you feel the next day. It doesn't take long for you to recover from over training. All you need is rest.
The best way to prevent over training from happening in the first place is to measure your heart rate in the morning, right after you wake up, and before you get out of bed. Simply check it with two fingers over the artery in your neck, and count the number of beat in one minute. I avoid counting more 15 seconds, because multiplying it by 4 increases the risk of error. That is your resting heart rate. It should be consistent every morning, and over time, as you become stronger, it will gradually decrease over time.
If one morning, it is elevated by 5 bpm or more, your body is under stress, and you should take it easy that day. If it is up by 10 bpm or more, then you're either over training, or you have an illness coming on. It is strongly recommended you take that day off and see how you feel the next day.
Keep a log of your waking heart rates. Over time, you will be able to see a trend, and you will learn more about yourself as time goes by. Knowledge is power, and with this power you will be able to train better and harder!
Another way to prevent over training is by starting out EASY, and increasing your intensity, duration, or distance by no more than 10% every week, month, and year. Also give yourself "plateaus" and rest weeks to give your body a break from the ever-increasing stress you are giving it. Do your best to keep all this logged as well so you can look back on it and see how well you're doing!
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Replies
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I didn't read the whole thing but I just wanted to add that it is also much easier to truly "overtrain" when you are also "undereating" which is technically what a weight loss inducing calorie deficit is.2
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I didn't read the whole thing but I just wanted to add that it is also much easier to truly "overtrain" when you are also "undereating" which is technically what a weight loss inducing calorie deficit is.
That is also very true, and all the more reason to eat at least *some* of your calories back, if you've already got a weight loss deficit set up by MFP.1 -
bump. In hopes more people will read this.0
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Thanks so much for this post! I am wwwwaaayyy overstrained. I am on day two of rest. I have been going to the gym, eating , nap, lunch, nap, dinner, bed. This is no way to live. I hope to see some improvement soon. You confirmed my suspicion on my over training, thank you.0
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Fantastic post OP!!!!!0
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Can speak from experience as someone who over-trained, under-ate and wound up with an eating disorder AND stress fractures. Never did get to run my marathon because of it...
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Until I took up Indoor Rowing (a strange niche' sport), I hadn't heard of that resting HR trick mentioned in your post, OP. That's how, it turns out, US Rowing coaches monitor athletes -- with checking and monitoring Resting HR. Simple trick anyone can do. If they find their RHR creeping up, the subscribe lots of slow, steady state work.
The "recovery" doesn't have to be complete rest. It could be a few days of just really taking it easy on cardio work. For cardio addicts like me, that's useful to know also.2 -
Until I took up Indoor Rowing (a strange niche' sport), I hadn't heard of that resting HR trick mentioned in your post, OP. That's how, it turns out, US Rowing coaches monitor athletes -- with checking and monitoring Resting HR. Simple trick anyone can do. If they find their RHR creeping up, they actually subscribe lots of slow, steady state work.
The "recovery" doesn't have to be complete rest. It could be a few days of just really taking it easy on cardio work. For cardio addicts like me, that's useful to know also.
Could be someone is doing too many intervals, intense sessions, etc. Once, the HR goes back to normal RHR, resume actitivities as before.1 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »Until I took up Indoor Rowing (a strange niche' sport), I hadn't heard of that resting HR trick mentioned in your post, OP. That's how, it turns out, US Rowing coaches monitor athletes -- with checking and monitoring Resting HR. Simple trick anyone can do. If they find their RHR creeping up, they actually subscribe lots of slow, steady state work.
The "recovery" doesn't have to be complete rest. It could be a few days of just really taking it easy on cardio work. For cardio addicts like me, that's useful to know also.
Could be someone is doing too many intervals, intense sessions, etc. Once, the HR goes back to normal RHR, resume actitivities as before.
100%.0 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »Until I took up Indoor Rowing (a strange niche' sport), I hadn't heard of that resting HR trick mentioned in your post, OP. That's how, it turns out, US Rowing coaches monitor athletes -- with checking and monitoring Resting HR. Simple trick anyone can do. If they find their RHR creeping up, the subscribe lots of slow, steady state work.
The "recovery" doesn't have to be complete rest. It could be a few days of just really taking it easy on cardio work. For cardio addicts like me, that's useful to know also.
My RHR bounces around at random. Or maybe my watch isn't very good at reading it.
The all day stress thing in modern Garmins is scary accurate. I've heard of people doing well using that (for this purpose).
I have a power meter, so for me TSS (and ATL vs CTL) works very well in the summer.1 -
Bump.
I didn't know that about RHR. I have always been curious what mine is. Now I'm going to find out and keep some data. Thanks, OP!0 -
OP, that's a great post, very useful.
Collectively, let's not over-focus on RHR as a isolated indicator, though. It's more like an "all other things equal" indicator, so context matters.
To give a trivial example: If I materially over-eat, my RHR the next day tends to be a bit higher. In that context, I don't need to back off, I need to work a little harder.
It's about patterns, in a context, IMO.5 -
Good post but would add that although rest is recovery not all recovery is rest.
Depending on the person and the stresses they put themselves though active recovery can be more productive than rest. It's not a binary choice between training or rest.
The elevated RHR marker (as a trend definitely not an individual reading) is useful for people like me who react to declining or simply disappointing exercise performance by simply pushing harder. Having empirical evidence as opposed to feelings of fatigue is far more likely to make me reassess my current training regime.
Another sign I might get when training hard in a deficit as part of event preparation is weight loss stalling when I know I'm in a calorie deficit. For me a repeated pattern has been steady weight loss and fitness/performance improvements for about 6 weeks and then RHR starts to climb, performance plateaus and weight loss stalls.
Which means that ideally I start event prep 8 weeks out.5 -
Great post.
Too many I've seen comment that only experienced can put in a level of effort to overtrain, so untrue. Even easier I think for untrained dieters taking who knows how unreasonable a deficit.
The other problem I've noticed people have that are not experienced with observing things, and have no objective measurement method (pace, weight on bar, ect) is they'll push doing whatever so it feels the same level of effort to them.
Problem is as body starts losing it over days or weeks, they may "feel" like they are pushing themselves to the same level - but they really aren't.
So what used to be a level of workout that would cause the body to improve, starts becoming just spinning their wheels with no improvement.
And I've found in the past too - the body will get the rest it needs - eventually through some means.
Usually getting sick and being out of commission for way more days/weeks than doing things smart in the first place would have prevented.
Or worse injury that really takes you out.
I shudder every time someone starts a post about not losing weight with working out 3 x daily and works out to be over 50% deficit.4 -
I didn't experience the symptoms described in the original post for overtraining but I did injure myself really badly in 2017 when I tried to start exercising every day when I wasn't accustomed to doing so for a long period of time. I gave myself pyriformus syndrome and was told to rest. I did rest for a couple days and then was on my feet for several hours for an evening event. That alone did me in. My pyriformus muscle became so inflamed that I had to be on bed rest taking heavy meds for 10 days. During that time I gained 11 lbs. I had muscle atrophy and required physical therapy to increase strength for walking and regain some flexibility in my hip.
Going full bore at the beginning isn't worth it.1 -
I definitely have compulsive need to exercise, i thought its good thing, but i don't regret it really i enjoy spending time in gym running here and exercising there instead of just staying home.
I don't have alot of friends so over training is the way to cope stress3 -
Good post but would add that although rest is recovery not all recovery is rest.
Depending on the person and the stresses they put themselves though active recovery can be more productive than rest. It's not a binary choice between training or rest.
I burned too many matches on my lunch ride today, I should be tapering for Sunday. Recovery walks, lots of carbs, and a temporary surplus. Last weekend I was sore from a long and strenuous hike, an easy recovery ride made me feel a lot better. Increasing blood flow to the legs is really helpful.1 -
Thanks for posting this. I’ve been really struggling this week and decided I’ve just been doing to much and I’m going to slow down this week and give myself some slack. Good to read that everything I’ve been experiencing is what my gut has been telling me.
RHR is a good idea to implement 🙂0 -
Have to post a somewhat contrarian view, just for balance.
Not all high-volume exercisers are obsessed with exercise. Not all high-volume training results in overtraining.
In my experience, the number of recreational exercisers who actually reach a true state of overtraining (as opposed to a day or two where one is not fully recovered) is quite small. Often people mistake general stress from work, etc as “overtraining”, but that’s not it.
It is possible to follow high-volume training programs that are balanced without taking mandated “rest days”. (As was reference earlier). For some people, exercise is their hobby. It’s no more obsessive than gardening, collecting stamps, etc.
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“Overtraining” is the “starvation mode” of exercise.11
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That bold, right there is exactly the wall I hit a couple of years ago. OP mentions that compulsive need to exercise. I did that, and AthleanXed myself right into 6 months downtime. Which sucked lol.Great post.
Too many I've seen comment that only experienced can put in a level of effort to overtrain, so untrue. Even easier I think for untrained dieters taking who knows how unreasonable a deficit.
The other problem I've noticed people have that are not experienced with observing things, and have no objective measurement method (pace, weight on bar, ect) is they'll push doing whatever so it feels the same level of effort to them.
Problem is as body starts losing it over days or weeks, they may "feel" like they are pushing themselves to the same level - but they really aren't.
So what used to be a level of workout that would cause the body to improve, starts becoming just spinning their wheels with no improvement.
And I've found in the past too - the body will get the rest it needs - eventually through some means.
Usually getting sick and being out of commission for way more days/weeks than doing things smart in the first place would have prevented.
Or worse injury that really takes you out.
I shudder every time someone starts a post about not losing weight with working out 3 x daily and works out to be over 50% deficit.
Needless to say I think my approach is a good deal safer today after that learning experience.
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Azdak doesn't believe in "starvation mode". He was stating that overtraining is like "starvation mode" because it's likely not a real thing. Individuals vary and some people can train everyday and quite intensely for years and still get results. And then there are people that will attempt the same and burn out. We don't know exactly how everyone's day goes or what type of other jobs they may have to do physically or mentally but that definitely plays into how the body can recover or not. There are people who workout just 30 minutes a day, eat right, just work 8 hours a day and can't sleep worth a crap. So I have to agree with him. I think each individual has to look at themselves objectively and try to deductively figure out whether or not what they are doing is overtraining for them. The list of signs the OP gave are a good indicator, but just feeling that way doesn't necessarily mean it's overtraining. Depression alone can happen with or without overtraining.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Yes I realize that Azdak doesn't believe in starvation mode. That disbelief made up part of the basis of my reply. Azdak and I appear to disagree that overtraining doesn't exist though we appear to agree that starvation mode (in the context of what's often talked about on MFP) doesn't exist.
Azdak doesn't believe in "starvation mode". He was stating that overtraining is like "starvation mode" because it's likely not a real thing. Individuals vary and some people can train everyday and quite intensely for years and still get results. And then there are people that will attempt the same and burn out. We don't know exactly how everyone's day goes or what type of other jobs they may have to do physically or mentally but that definitely plays into how the body can recover or not. There are people who workout just 30 minutes a day, eat right, just work 8 hours a day and can't sleep worth a crap. So I have to agree with him. I think each individual has to look at themselves objectively and try to deductively figure out whether or not what they are doing is overtraining for them. The list of signs the OP gave are a good indicator, but just feeling that way doesn't necessarily mean it's overtraining. Depression alone can happen with or without overtraining.
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In terms of whether or not overtraining exists, a trip down Google Scholar is better than anecdotes.
2nd edit:
The, "some people do xyz and aren't overtrained thus overtraining doesn't exist" idea is somewhat akin to claiming that PTSD doesn't exist by saying "some people experience major trauma and don't have lasting psychological issues because of it".1 -
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Azdak doesn't believe in "starvation mode". He was stating that overtraining is like "starvation mode" because it's likely not a real thing. Individuals vary and some people can train everyday and quite intensely for years and still get results. And then there are people that will attempt the same and burn out. We don't know exactly how everyone's day goes or what type of other jobs they may have to do physically or mentally but that definitely plays into how the body can recover or not. There are people who workout just 30 minutes a day, eat right, just work 8 hours a day and can't sleep worth a crap. So I have to agree with him. I think each individual has to look at themselves objectively and try to deductively figure out whether or not what they are doing is overtraining for them. The list of signs the OP gave are a good indicator, but just feeling that way doesn't necessarily mean it's overtraining. Depression alone can happen with or without overtraining.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Here's a link from the NIH & overtraining:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3435910/
Is overtraining a reality? Sure.
Is it as common as some might think? Dunno..... I'm thinking probably not. (just a guess)2 -
maureenseel1984 wrote: »Can speak from experience as someone who over-trained, under-ate and wound up with an eating disorder AND stress fractures....
+1, add some tendonitis. Thanks for this post, I hope it raises awareness. I’m still paying for my years of mistakes and frustration. More folks need to take it slow and steady. Go hard like an athlete if that’s your thing, but remember that most athletes aren’t in a constant deficit, and that they build in time for rest and recovery.
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Motorsheen wrote: »
Azdak doesn't believe in "starvation mode". He was stating that overtraining is like "starvation mode" because it's likely not a real thing. Individuals vary and some people can train everyday and quite intensely for years and still get results. And then there are people that will attempt the same and burn out. We don't know exactly how everyone's day goes or what type of other jobs they may have to do physically or mentally but that definitely plays into how the body can recover or not. There are people who workout just 30 minutes a day, eat right, just work 8 hours a day and can't sleep worth a crap. So I have to agree with him. I think each individual has to look at themselves objectively and try to deductively figure out whether or not what they are doing is overtraining for them. The list of signs the OP gave are a good indicator, but just feeling that way doesn't necessarily mean it's overtraining. Depression alone can happen with or without overtraining.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Here's a link from the NIH & overtraining:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3435910/
Is overtraining a reality? Sure.
Is it as common as some might think? Dunno..... I'm thinking probably not. (just a guess)
Exactly - and before anyone mentions this in relation to my post, I never said anything about how common overtraining is, just that it exists. As an aside, I've never seen "overreaching" be used in the context of that article, thanks for that.0 -
Motorsheen wrote: »
Azdak doesn't believe in "starvation mode". He was stating that overtraining is like "starvation mode" because it's likely not a real thing. Individuals vary and some people can train everyday and quite intensely for years and still get results. And then there are people that will attempt the same and burn out. We don't know exactly how everyone's day goes or what type of other jobs they may have to do physically or mentally but that definitely plays into how the body can recover or not. There are people who workout just 30 minutes a day, eat right, just work 8 hours a day and can't sleep worth a crap. So I have to agree with him. I think each individual has to look at themselves objectively and try to deductively figure out whether or not what they are doing is overtraining for them. The list of signs the OP gave are a good indicator, but just feeling that way doesn't necessarily mean it's overtraining. Depression alone can happen with or without overtraining.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Here's a link from the NIH & overtraining:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3435910/
Is overtraining a reality? Sure.
Is it as common as some might think? Dunno..... I'm thinking probably not. (just a guess)
Exactly - and before anyone mentions this in relation to my post, I never said anything about how common overtraining is, just that it exists. As an aside, I've never seen "overreaching" be used in the context of that article, thanks for that.
Just like 'starvation mode' actually exists.... however, just because you're hungry, it doesn't necessarily mean that you are automatically in starvation mode.
When I hear 'starvation mode', images of the Bataan Death March (and other atrocities) come to mind, just not skipping a couple of Happy Meals.1 -
Motorsheen wrote: »Motorsheen wrote: »
Azdak doesn't believe in "starvation mode". He was stating that overtraining is like "starvation mode" because it's likely not a real thing. Individuals vary and some people can train everyday and quite intensely for years and still get results. And then there are people that will attempt the same and burn out. We don't know exactly how everyone's day goes or what type of other jobs they may have to do physically or mentally but that definitely plays into how the body can recover or not. There are people who workout just 30 minutes a day, eat right, just work 8 hours a day and can't sleep worth a crap. So I have to agree with him. I think each individual has to look at themselves objectively and try to deductively figure out whether or not what they are doing is overtraining for them. The list of signs the OP gave are a good indicator, but just feeling that way doesn't necessarily mean it's overtraining. Depression alone can happen with or without overtraining.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Here's a link from the NIH & overtraining:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3435910/
Is overtraining a reality? Sure.
Is it as common as some might think? Dunno..... I'm thinking probably not. (just a guess)
Exactly - and before anyone mentions this in relation to my post, I never said anything about how common overtraining is, just that it exists. As an aside, I've never seen "overreaching" be used in the context of that article, thanks for that.
Just like 'starvation mode' actually exists.... however, just because you're hungry, it doesn't necessarily mean that you are automatically in starvation mode.
When I hear 'starvation mode', images of the Bataan Death March (and other atrocities) come to mind, just not skipping a couple of Happy Meals.
Exactly. I think of, among other things, severe malnutrition and famine. For better or worse, most people aren't referring to that when they say "starvation mode" on these forums. I've only read a handful of posts where someone has talked about having had a history of really severe malnutrition and referred to that as "starvation mode".0
This discussion has been closed.
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