Explain why "organic" is better?

_granola

Yes, the farming methods are quite different. Many of the chemical pesticides used in conventional farming do stay on the vegetable or fruit, and yes, much research has shown that quite a few of the pesticides used are known carcinogens. Some people like to avoid known carcinogens. I realize that we now live in a world where known carcinogens are everywhere, but I don’t see a problem in making attempt to avoid some of them, if you can.

The way the weeds are eliminated is different. With organic farming, farmers tend to rotate crops or just pull weeds to manage them. With conventional produce, they spray more pesticides, and rarely rotate the soil.

More on pesticides – they get into the soil and grasses that animals eat, and they most certainly get into the groundwater/drinking water. We’ve done tests. And this is not just affecting humans, it’s affecting animals. Many of the crops (soy and corn, usually) are also fed to the animals we eat and they also drink the water.

We can talk organically-fed vs. conventionally-fed animals too. There are huge differences. The main one being the feed and the use of hormones and antibiotics.

There is not enough research out there that shows organic produce is more nutritious than conventionally-grown produce, but there is some initial research out there (though I believe many of the methods used were not very sound). Hopefully more research will come out on this. I’m curious, anyway.

Many people who switch to organic produce think there is a difference in taste. Whether initially they can taste it or as they get used to it, they try conventionally-grown produce and find there is a difference in taste. The things that taste the most different to me are berries, bananas, and apples.

I buy organic when I can, because I can, and because I support the farmers and the farming methods used. I think there is plenty of evidence that it is better for the environment. Most of what I buy is also local. I do this because I want to support my community farmers. They make some damn good stuff. It's again, a taste difference. When I moved from CO to WA, a WA apple tasted different. It hadn't been on a truck for days before it got to the grocery store.

I hope you don’t think I’m being an alarmist or anything. I am just trying to explain the differences. I am not trying to force anyone to eat any differently than they do.

Polly758

It's not just about the bugs, although spraying bugs just creates an arms race where the bugs that survive the spray reproduce and each generation gets stronger, requiring stronger poison

(which is leftover from/based on chemical warfare, by the way, which is a bit disturbing to me)

and those poisons are bound to reach a level where they are directly toxic to humans from consumption (are they already toxic to the humans harvesting the crops? Probably.) What happens then?

Also, by NOT using manure and similar soil amendments, the plants keep draining the soil of nutrients

(you know, the vitamins which we eat our vegetables for)

and this causes erosion besides. Farmland is pretty much turning into dust.

Organic also means no genetic tinkering besides regular old plant sex. It may be harmless but nobody has bothered to check.

At any rate, American "organic" means pretty much jack sht since the food companies lobby for more and more poisons to be considered organic. To say nothing of the other business practices food companies such as Monsanto engage in, which is another post entirely.

I prefer to keep myself out of this destructive cycle... I'm working on my own garden. I'm basically tired of companies selling me things... period.

jrutledge01

when i think organic, i'm thinking eggs/milk/etc.. stuff that actually involves animals, though the USDA definition is below - this is what i think of "Animals that produce meat, poultry, eggs, and dairy products do not take antibiotics or growth hormones. "

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Organic food is produced by farmers who emphasize the use of renewable resources and the conservation of soil and water to enhance environmental quality for future generations. Organic meat, poultry, eggs, and dairy products come from animals that are given no antibiotics or growth hormones. Organic food is produced without using most conventional pesticides; fertilizers made with synthetic ingredients or sewage sludge; bioengineering; or ionizing radiation. Before a product can be labeled "organic," a Government-approved certifier inspects the farm where the food is grown to make sure the farmer is following all the rules necessary to meet USDA organic standards. Companies that handle or process organic food before it gets to your local supermarket or restaurant must be certified, too.

No antibiotics? What if they get an infection? The rancher just lets 300lbs of beef die?

i'm not a farmer, i don't know what they do (though generally infections aren't fatal, so i feel your question is a bit outrageous)

ToughTulip

I only buy organic because its cheaper at the grocery store. I know thats not always the case, but it just so happens to be that way at Mariano's.

This would probably be my only reason to buy it! Thats a good reason.

I also buy it if they don't have what I want in non-organic. Like baby yellow carrots and unsweetened coconut flakes at my Hyvee

drmerc

when i think organic, i'm thinking eggs/milk/etc.. stuff that actually involves animals, though the USDA definition is below - this is what i think of "Animals that produce meat, poultry, eggs, and dairy products do not take antibiotics or growth hormones. "

---

Organic food is produced by farmers who emphasize the use of renewable resources and the conservation of soil and water to enhance environmental quality for future generations. Organic meat, poultry, eggs, and dairy products come from animals that are given no antibiotics or growth hormones. Organic food is produced without using most conventional pesticides; fertilizers made with synthetic ingredients or sewage sludge; bioengineering; or ionizing radiation. Before a product can be labeled "organic," a Government-approved certifier inspects the farm where the food is grown to make sure the farmer is following all the rules necessary to meet USDA organic standards. Companies that handle or process organic food before it gets to your local supermarket or restaurant must be certified, too.

No antibiotics? What if they get an infection? The rancher just lets 300lbs of beef die?

i'm not a farmer, i don't know what they do (though generally infections don't kill, so i feel your question is a bit outrageous)

You don't think a infection will kill a chicken or a cow?

jrutledge01

when i think organic, i'm thinking eggs/milk/etc.. stuff that actually involves animals, though the USDA definition is below - this is what i think of "Animals that produce meat, poultry, eggs, and dairy products do not take antibiotics or growth hormones. "

---

Organic food is produced by farmers who emphasize the use of renewable resources and the conservation of soil and water to enhance environmental quality for future generations. Organic meat, poultry, eggs, and dairy products come from animals that are given no antibiotics or growth hormones. Organic food is produced without using most conventional pesticides; fertilizers made with synthetic ingredients or sewage sludge; bioengineering; or ionizing radiation. Before a product can be labeled "organic," a Government-approved certifier inspects the farm where the food is grown to make sure the farmer is following all the rules necessary to meet USDA organic standards. Companies that handle or process organic food before it gets to your local supermarket or restaurant must be certified, too.

No antibiotics? What if they get an infection? The rancher just lets 300lbs of beef die?

i'm not a farmer, i don't know what they do (though generally infections don't kill, so i feel your question is a bit outrageous)

You don't think a infection will kill a chicken or a cow?

"will" implies that it will definitely happen. i think an infection "can" kill a chicken or a cow

Sharyn913

I'm certain organic is better for you, because you're not unnecessarily ingesting trace amounts of poinsonous chemical.

However, that is the least of your worries. Processed food is way worse for you than non-organic produce could ever hope to be.

This...

Although I need to steer far away from processed

kayemme

How is food with bugs on it, fertilized with manure (this is what they use, right?), better than bug free food with some chemicals on it? What percentage of crops are lost to the bugs in organic farming? How are the crop yields of organically fertilized foods vs. chemically fertilized?

i actually get a little excited when i find bugs in my produce. it means there's competition for my food.

islandmonkey

It isn't poisonous. That seems self-explanatory.

So you are implying that non-organic IS poisonous? Got anything scientific to back that up?

Got any scientific evidence to back up your implied claim that bugs and manure are bad?

kayemme

i don't know that it's so much about the end product, for me, it's more about the process in general. crops that are heavily sprayed affect more than we can even imagine: bee colony collapse is a direct result of overspraying crops as part of the process and not as a last-resort tactic.

all of those chemicals drain right into watersheds and cities nearby corporate farms tend to have higher rates of chronic illness. the workers on these farms are exposed directly, so it's not really about *me* when i buy organic.

and i don't always buy organic for the sake of it. i try to buy as much as i can locally (CSA) and I grow a good portion of my own food. I use the grocery store as a last resort.

dayone987

It isn't poisonous. That seems self-explanatory.

So you are implying that non-organic IS poisonous? Got anything scientific to back that up?

Got any scientific evidence to back up your implied claim that bugs and manure are bad?

E. Coli and listeria found in manure can be deadly.

Rae6503

It isn't poisonous. That seems self-explanatory.

So you are implying that non-organic IS poisonous? Got anything scientific to back that up?

Got any scientific evidence to back up your implied claim that bugs and manure are bad?

Generally speaking, I prefer not to eat bugs in manure. Manure can (usually?) cares E-coli. Bugs, well, they are icky (but I suppose there's nothing wrong with eating them).

kayemme

and to be clear: the USDA "Organic" label is the minimum organic requirement. It lowered the bar considerably on organic practice.

ToughTulip

How is food with bugs on it, fertilized with manure (this is what they use, right?), better than bug free food with some chemicals on it? What percentage of crops are lost to the bugs in organic farming? How are the crop yields of organically fertilized foods vs. chemically fertilized?

i actually get a little excited when i find bugs in my produce. it means there's competition for my food.

LOL that was awesome.

KyleB65

My main concern is that there is not enough data on the effects of GM foods. Effects based upon direct consumption - ie eating GM corn products. or the effects of secondary consumption - ie eating beef that has been fed with GM corn.

Second, I am concerned as it seems that the big agri-business companies who are involved in the GM food business are fighting hard to not allow consumers the information to make a choice. If their claims are accurate, then there should be no issues! Label the food as primary or secondary GM based and let everyone make their own choice.

For me, the harder companies like Monsanto fight simple product packaging rules like open labeling. The more it makes me think think that they have something to hide. A la Tobacco Industry!

kayemme

Got any scientific evidence to back up your implied claim that bugs and manure are bad?

E. Coli found in manure can be deadly.

yes, true, but only when not treated properly in the course of composting. you can't spread most manures directly on fields. this is partly why we have e coli breakouts: because the composting isn't done properly.

then the other part is what they feed the animals that produce the manure. it's a deadly cycle. it's not about caring for the crops (livestock or crops), it's about turning a fast profit. so with that attitude, it's really clear why we have food safety problems within agribusiness.

Carol_L

[/quote]

Got any scientific evidence to back up your implied claim that bugs and manure are bad?
[/quote]

You are aware that e-coli is considered to be a pathogen...yes?

Granted, many insects are a viable form of protein, I prefer to get mine from cows, pigs and chickens. The other downside to bugs is their tendency to really cut into crop yields.

emstethem

I have thyroid disease which was probably caused by over consumption of pesticide laden foods...Also, the bugs that attack the crops are evolving into super bugs that can eat the crops that have been sprayed with the pesticides, so what's the point if the bugs are just gonna get tougher? Kinda like all the super bacteria that's out there now, like MRSA Staph. and such. Evolved bacteria due to human over-usage of antibiotics. WE need to be healthier not the bugs and bacteria. A no brainer... ORGANIC IS BETTER. WE need to evolve to be tougher-NOT the bugs and bacteria.

kayemme

How is food with bugs on it, fertilized with manure (this is what they use, right?), better than bug free food with some chemicals on it? What percentage of crops are lost to the bugs in organic farming? How are the crop yields of organically fertilized foods vs. chemically fertilized?

i actually get a little excited when i find bugs in my produce. it means there's competition for my food.

LOL that was awesome.

thanks. true story: last thanksgiving in our csa share we got a head of lettuce. I was washing it and found a wooly bear caterpillar. i looked up the caterpillar online and it said that if more than half of the caterpillar is brown, not black, we will have a mild winter. AND WE DID!

Rae6503

Yes, the farming methods are quite different. Many of the chemical pesticides used in conventional farming do stay on the vegetable or fruit, and yes, much research has shown that quite a few of the pesticides used are known carcinogens. Some people like to avoid known carcinogens. I realize that we now live in a world where known carcinogens are everywhere, but I don’t see a problem in making attempt to avoid some of them, if you can.

The way the weeds are eliminated is different. With organic farming, farmers tend to rotate crops or just pull weeds to manage them. With conventional produce, they spray more pesticides, and rarely rotate the soil.

More on pesticides – they get into the soil and grasses that animals eat, and they most certainly get into the groundwater/drinking water. We’ve done tests. And this is not just affecting humans, it’s affecting animals. Many of the crops (soy and corn, usually) are also fed to the animals we eat and they also drink the water.

We can talk organically-fed vs. conventionally-fed animals too. There are huge differences. The main one being the feed and the use of hormones and antibiotics.

There is not enough research out there that shows organic produce is more nutritious than conventionally-grown produce, but there is some initial research out there (though I believe many of the methods used were not very sound). Hopefully more research will come out on this. I’m curious, anyway.

Many people who switch to organic produce think there is a difference in taste. Whether initially they can taste it or as they get used to it, they try conventionally-grown produce and find there is a difference in taste. The things that taste the most different to me are berries, bananas, and apples.

I buy organic when I can, because I can, and because I support the farmers and the farming methods used. I think there is plenty of evidence that it is better for the environment. Most of what I buy is also local. I do this because I want to support my community farmers. They make some damn good stuff. It's again, a taste difference. When I moved from CO to WA, a WA apple tasted different. It hadn't been on a truck for days before it got to the grocery store.

I hope you don’t think I’m being an alarmist or anything. I am just trying to explain the differences. I am not trying to force anyone to eat any differently than they do.

I definitely appreciate this answer. Contaminated water sources is a big concern for sure. I'd support further research into which pesticides are causing the harm and if there are any that do not.

I DO support farmer's markets, buying local produce, etc. I think it's great to support local economies and the limit food transportation costs and pollution.