Explain why "organic" is better?

Lozze

Anything synthetic needs to be processed by your liver before being absorbed or rejected by your body (that also include sugar-replacements). While your liver is busy clearing up all the un-natural stuff that you have ingested, well... guess what, it's not burning fat. On top of that, when your system does not know what to do with un-natural substances, it stocks them in your fat cells (as other cells don't use them as nourishment), making them that much harder to burn.

Either I have a super liver or I'm imagining the nearly 40kg of weight I've lost (and my body fat has dropped from 50% to 33%) because I don't eat organic and I don't steer away from unprocessed foods. (I even drink the eeeevil aspartemene!)

No one on these boards who sprouts that organic/non-processed foods is better for you has ever shown any proof that what they state is fact and eating these foods make you healthier. It's all common sense or obvious. Or it's he evil chemicals. (I just spat out hat evil chemical H2O. It's a chemical and therefore bad!)

I personally go to my local farmers market because the food is from local farmers and is cheaper. I feel t tastes better. But organic is more expensive foods that are still loaded wih chemicals, just different ones.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

noreen2012

bump

Skeebee

How is food with bugs on it, fertilized with manure (this is what they use, right?), better than bug free food with some chemicals on it?

Technically, organic can still have "chemicals" on it. Lot of people don't know this. They can still use pesticides on the organic food as long as the ingredients in the pesticide are organic. Hooray for the FDA!!!

Masterdo

Well, the concept itself is great. If you truly want to be disgusted with human greed one day, look at documentaries and research around the business practices around seeds market and agriculture in general, it truly is beyond comprehension.

Now though, organic produces are not that great either... It is very expensive, if you live in a big city most of the time the food traveled a lot before getting to you too, etc.

I prefer focusing on buying stuff that traveled as little as possible, seasonal stuff, organic or not. In Montreal we have greenhouses on some downtown rooftops, they can deliver produce directly at your job. That's vegetables that traveled less than 10k by the time it's in your plate, and was still growing that morning. I find that much better than the "organic" labels most of the time...

RaeN81

I only buy organic aspartame. It's important.

This actually made me laugh out loud.

debussyschild

I don't trust the FDA or the USDA at all. They're so easily bought off and paid to tell us that companies in the food industry are completely truthful. In fact, I don't 100% trust their process for certifying something as "USDA Organic".... because the USDA certified it and everyone wants organic these days.

Point being, organic or not, personally, I'd rather GROW it myself and live with the consequences of my own gardening skills than buy it. Nothing wrong with dirt. We've been growing vegetables and fruits with natural manure for a very very long time without chemical pesticides. Chemical pesticides only serve one purpose: produce a higher yield of product per hectare of harvestable crop. And we get to eat it.

NoAdditives

How is food with bugs on it, fertilized with manure (this is what they use, right?), better than bug free food with some chemicals on it? What percentage of crops are lost to the bugs in organic farming? How are the crop yields of organically fertilized foods vs. chemically fertilized?

The food isn't covered in toxic chemicals. Those same toxic chemicals aren't IN the food. There are no genetically modified organic foods. Hardly anything is "lost to the bugs" because organic farmers use natural methods of pest control.

I was reading something recently about the importance of organic food for babies and children. There was a study done on the urine of children. Over 70% of the kids who ate conventional food had traces of toxic pesticides in their urine. Less than 25% of kids who ate organic produce had traces of pesticides in their urine, and the concentration of those toxins was lower.

Personally, I don't want toxic *kitten* in my body. I especially don't want it in my kids' bodies. With things like childhood cancer, autism, and all sorts of other health problems on the rise, I want to do everything I can to make sure my kids grow up healthy and strong. So I eat organic, especially while pregnant, we only take antibiotics when it's absolutely necessary, we avoid prescription and OTC drugs, etc.

Rocbola

Plus, it's elitist. The vast majority of the world does not have the option of organic eating. The production of organic eating is so much less efficient and successful than non-organic and that time, space and energy would really be better served feeding the hungry.

EVERY human in the world fed itself on "organic" food for thousands upon thousands of years.

Exactly, plus our prime farmlands are dedicated to growing #2 field corn which no one eats, only animals and ethanol plants about 50/50. If all that was dedicated to growing foods that we actually eat we would have plenty to eat and I don't think we'd have the obesity epidemic that we have today. I get half my food off of 1/8th of an acre in my suburban backyard. There is no lack of space to grow food.

Exactly! Every time i drive past a corn field, i think "If i had access to just ONE acre of that, i could grow enough food for my whole street!" And it's just being wasted on row crops that are being sprayed with nasty smelling stuff in a big white tank that gives you a headache if you get too close when they are spraying, and then most of it goes to feed animals farther down the road that aren't even supposed to be eating corn in the first place, and are huddled together in such concentration that you can smell them for MILES around. The way we farm today is just plain stupid and inefficient, yet we seem to pat ourselves on the back and pretend it's smart because we can grow a lot of pounds of grain/acre.

SalishSea

It's not just about the bugs, although spraying bugs just creates an arms race where the bugs that survive the spray reproduce and each generation gets stronger, requiring stronger poison

(which is leftover from/based on chemical warfare, by the way, which is a bit disturbing to me)

and those poisons are bound to reach a level where they are directly toxic to humans from consumption (are they already toxic to the humans harvesting the crops? Probably.) What happens then?

Also, by NOT using manure and similar soil amendments, the plants keep draining the soil of nutrients

(you know, the vitamins which we eat our vegetables for)

and this causes erosion besides. Farmland is pretty much turning into dust.

Organic also means no genetic tinkering besides regular old plant sex. It may be harmless but nobody has bothered to check.

At any rate, American "organic" means pretty much jack sht since the food companies lobby for more and more poisons to be considered organic. To say nothing of the other business practices food companies such as Monsanto engage in, which is another post entirely.

I prefer to keep myself out of this destructive cycle... I'm working on my own garden. I'm basically tired of companies selling me things... period.

Completely agree. Home gardening is the way to go. Our garden is beautiful this year. And we've been old-fashioned pressure cooker canning all summer long. Besides organic tastes way better.

SalishSea

You can't wash off chemicals and pesticides that have seeped into the cracks and pores of your veggies. It's poison.

Advocates(tree huggers) say organic is better, health experts do not. Infact, plants themselves give off toxins that can be harmful.

The organic movement, much like the 'green' movement is a marketing scheme that is making people who produce green products lots of money. You can buy organic cleaners and dish soap and paper products... some people are getting very rich off people who fear for their lives because someone says their food is poison.

I agree that the word "organic" does not mean anything these days. It has been watered down by many big agri-businesses so they can label their foods as such and make more money.

However, I work with many world-class cancer researchers in Seattle and they do in fact agree that pesticides are bad. Don't eat them. I guess that makes these scientists "tree-huggers" . Or better referred to as "stay-alivers"!

We are not talking about obviously poisonous plants. To speak to your point that plants give off toxins.

kayemme

How is food with bugs on it, fertilized with manure (this is what they use, right?), better than bug free food with some chemicals on it? What percentage of crops are lost to the bugs in organic farming? How are the crop yields of organically fertilized foods vs. chemically fertilized?

The non-manure fertilized crops don't end up being recalled due to e-coli contamination : )

Did you know that there are actually chemicals that are permitted by the USDA for so-called organic crops?

I have issues with all of this chemical-phobia that organic proponents keep trying to whip up. There is nothing on planet earth that is not composed of "chemicals".

you're right to an extent... but it seems to me you're pulling a "clinton": "what does 'x' mean?"

i think the main thing to remember is that while chemicals do exist, not all chemicals are meant to be used the way they are. they are taken from their natural context (mined) and then re-created to serve a purpose. that purpose has been destroying the very land they are intended to serve, the watersheds, the insects (oh, that's right! they're supposed to kill insects! but people forget we need those insects to pollinate.. whoops!) and delicate systems.

there are ways to do it without chemicals, but it does take more work. oh, that's right, gee.. i forgot. nobody wants to work! silly, silly me. and certainly not in those conditions. that's why we pay illegals to do it, so they don't have any rights to complain.

but that's okay, i guess, so long as i can get my blueberries in february. no worries.

kayemme

i suppose i'm an elitist, then. since people want to throw classisms around. i grow a good portion of my own food and subscribe to a CSA. it puts my grocery bill at about $25/wk for 2 in the summer and about $50/wk in the winter. i'm livin' high on the hog, yo!

it is understood that not everybody has opportunity to grow their own or join a CSA or use a cooperative or whatever efforts are made to avoid the commercial food line. that doesn't make them bad people, it makes them people with limited access.

instead of *****ing on forums, maybe some of you "anti-elitists" could go out and do some work in your communities putting together community gardens or work with local farmers to put together CSA shares.

be part of the solution.

kayemme

Well, I won't say that pesticides don't have any effect on us (not saying they do either - I don't really know). But, since I live on a farm and they spray at least twice a year, I won't be avoiding it anytime soon LOL.

But I do have issues with the crop yield of organic. It is not sustainable to feed the world population (IMO). I don't see how it could be. There just isn't enough farm land to grow enough food organically for all the people of the world.

^^DING DING DING DING DING!! You've got it! You cannot feed the world with organic crop yields. At present, however, an individual farmer/corporation can make more money selling "organic" than "conventional".

that is totally not true. you CAN feed the world (as if it were our business to do so) with organic crops, but you can't do it with monoculture crops. it's a matter of using a mix of permaculture and organic practice... do you have any idea how much food is out there that we don't buy and sell? check your lawn, there's a whole mess of food right under your feet.

you can't feed the world AND MAKE A SIZEABLE PROFIT with organics, no. I would agree with that. you can make a profit, yes. but it's not like farmers will be yachting at the cape every summer. here is the problem: we are a country that thinks it's our responsibility to "feed the world" yet we throw away enough food to feed most of the world every single day. we're nothing but a bunch of sorry hypocrites.

we will starve the world, however, for oil. and we will also kill off all the pollinating insects with our liberal spraying practices. we'll be happy to clearcut ancient forests for hamburger meat being fed the "food" we produce that COULD be feeding the world right now, but isn't because it's going to feedlots. to feed animals that don't even eat grain.

this isn't even getting INTO the whole GMO thing, which is embarrassingly different than cross breeding. if you don't know this, then i suggest you read into GMOs and what it means.

i hate to sound so snarky, but this argument is so stale and so clearly untrue.

Mellie289

I have kind of a split opinion of organic foods. I don't believe they are more nutritious and most of the time organic produce looks less appealing and certainly rots quicker, but is more expensive. I do want to be healthy and limit my ingestion of pesticide residue. I think a little common sense is in order.

I don't see the point of eating organic things like melons or bananas. These foods have very thick outside layers that are removed. Pesticide residue does not penetrate beyond the outside layers of fruits and vegetables. If it can be peeled, non-organic is on par with organic, IMO.

I also go by the Dirty Dozen list and the Clean Fifteen:
http://shine.yahoo.com/healthy-living/2012-dirty-dozen-plus-clean-15-buying-organic-000700620.html

Plants make their own insect repellents and some don't need as much protection by pesticide application. For the others that are more susceptible to insect damage and resulting disease, more pesticide use means more residue, so organic may be a better option if your goal is to avoid chemicals. I now try to stick with organic produce from Sprouts farmers markets for things like spinach and lettuce that obviously can't be peeled and are more difficult to clean, but I'm not militant about it because it's sometimes hard to fork out so much money for the same food. Gotta go for it when it's on sale though!

I think it's a total joke seeing the "organic" label on things like ice cream and cookies... like it's labeling these foods as healthy. This is where marketing is at work and it's likely misleading people who don't know enough about their food (in our getting ever fatter society ) into thinking it's okay to eat as much of it as they want. I think a lot of people just read organic as synonymous with healthy, and having that label on foods that are empty calories that are mostly just fat and sugar really irritates me.

runfreddyrun

How is food with bugs on it, fertilized with manure (this is what they use, right?), better than bug free food with some chemicals on it? What percentage of crops are lost to the bugs in organic farming? How are the crop yields of organically fertilized foods vs. chemically fertilized?

The non-manure fertilized crops don't end up being recalled due to e-coli contamination : )

Did you know that there are actually chemicals that are permitted by the USDA for so-called organic crops?

I have issues with all of this chemical-phobia that organic proponents keep trying to whip up. There is nothing on planet earth that is not composed of "chemicals".

exactly. and this is why we are all getting cancer. there are lots of toxic influences that i am exposed to that i have no real control over. this is something i can control.

ninerbuff

I only buy organic aspartame. It's important.

FTW. Applause.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

ninerbuff

It isn't poisonous. That seems self-explanatory.

So you are implying that non-organic IS poisonous? Got anything scientific to back that up?

Got any scientific evidence to back up your implied claim that bugs and manure are bad?

Lol, mix manure in organic meat and tell me it ain't bad.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

ninerbuff

You can't wash off chemicals and pesticides that have seeped into the cracks and pores of your veggies. It's poison.

Well then when it rains, the same chemicals in the air that is captured in the rain water is definitely being absorbed by organic veggies.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

ninerbuff

Explain why organic is better? I don't have to explain it, your taste buds will explain it. Go pick up an organic local cantaloupe and a pesticide sprayed conventional cantaloupe and have a taste off.

They did this at a fair one time. Absolutely couldn't tell any difference. Anecdotes aren't evidence.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

painauxraisin

Organic fruit (with skin, like apples, etc) tastes like an apple - no metallic/bitter taste on the skin at all. My kids were the first one to pick up on that difference and refuse to eat regular store-bought apples any more. Organic chicken (my experience has been with Smart Chicken) is more dense from not soaking up water/solution as it chills and it's cleaned better than all other chicken I've purchased. We recently went in together with some friends on a locally raised, pasture-fed half of a cow, and the quality of the meat is amazing.

For me, buying organic whenever possible is a dollar-for-dollar vote in favor of the environment and one more thing I can do to tip the healthy scale in my family's favor. I'm not obsessive about it, but I do notice a difference in the quality and it just feels better to me at the conscious-level when I'm able to support the organic movement.

Now, that said, I also try to purchase locally whenever possible, as I know "organic" can be interpreted a number of ways, and it's better to buy a local piece of fruit that might carry a trace of pesticides than it is to purchase an organic mango that's been trucked clear from Argentina or something.

painauxraisin

<i'm completely with you on this..

thelovelyLIZ

Organic really isn't inherently better. They still use pesticides and such, just in MUCH high quantities, since it's not as effective as chemical ones. Just because it's natural doesn't mean it won't make you sick. Besides, most pesticide residue can be removed with a simple washing.

Here's a great article that dispels some popular myths about organic foods.
http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/04/30/the-lowdown-on-organic-foo/

There are pros and cons to organic, but I've yet to see proof that I need to eat all organic to be healthier.

deadbeatsummer

my thoughts exactly. OP needs to take a chill pill.

:huh: I haven't replied to this thread in a half hour. I'm talking about boobs now.

yrhee

I've learned in my science classes that some pesticides are hormone (endocrine) disrupters. Who knows if it's all bogus though. There's so much evidence backing up both sides and all the information out there just seems like propoganda. I've also heard that you should at the very least buy organic peanut butter because peanuts are the most heavily sprayed. Do I? nope.

BR3ANDA

Here are some differences between organic and conventional.

http://youtu.be/rixyrCNVVGA

ShaunMc1968

You can't wash off chemicals and pesticides that have seeped into the cracks and pores of your veggies. It's poison.

Advocates(tree huggers) say organic is better, health experts do not. Infact, plants themselves give off toxins that can be harmful.

The organic movement, much like the 'green' movement is a marketing scheme that is making people who produce green products lots of money. You can buy organic cleaners and dish soap and paper products... some people are getting very rich off people who fear for their lives because someone says their food is poison.

I agree that the word "organic" does not mean anything these days. It has been watered down by many big agri-businesses so they can label their foods as such and make more money.

However, I work with many world-class cancer researchers in Seattle and they do in fact agree that pesticides are bad. Don't eat them. I guess that makes these scientists "tree-huggers" . Or better referred to as "stay-alivers"!

We are not talking about obviously poisonous plants. To speak to your point that plants give off toxins.

If there is a claim on a label that something is organic then it has to be backed up by Certification!! You cannot label something as Organic that has not been Certified to legal Standards!! It is prosecutable by law.

If anyone has any queries on how Certification is done or how land and then products produced off that land are converted to organic statuts then please feel free to ask. I do this 5 days a week!

kayemme

I have kind of a split opinion of organic foods. I don't believe they are more nutritious and most of the time organic produce looks less appealing and certainly rots quicker, but is more expensive. I do want to be healthy and limit my ingestion of pesticide residue. I think a little common sense is in order.

I don't see the point of eating organic things like melons or bananas. These foods have very thick outside layers that are removed. Pesticide residue does not penetrate beyond the outside layers of fruits and vegetables. If it can be peeled, non-organic is on par with organic, IMO.

I also go by the Dirty Dozen list and the Clean Fifteen:
http://shine.yahoo.com/healthy-living/2012-dirty-dozen-plus-clean-15-buying-organic-000700620.html

Plants make their own insect repellents and some don't need as much protection by pesticide application. For the others that are more susceptible to insect damage and resulting disease, more pesticide use means more residue, so organic may be a better option if your goal is to avoid chemicals. I now try to stick with organic produce from Sprouts farmers markets for things like spinach and lettuce that obviously can't be peeled and are more difficult to clean, but I'm not militant about it because it's sometimes hard to fork out so much money for the same food. Gotta go for it when it's on sale though!

I think it's a total joke seeing the "organic" label on things like ice cream and cookies... like it's labeling these foods as healthy. This is where marketing is at work and it's likely misleading people who don't know enough about their food (in our getting ever fatter society ) into thinking it's okay to eat as much of it as they want. I think a lot of people just read organic as synonymous with healthy, and having that label on foods that are empty calories that are mostly just fat and sugar really irritates me.

agreed. i've had this conversation so many times. at the end of the day, if it's a choice between an organic oreo and a "conventional" cucumber, by all means, eat the cucumber.

but it's not so much about the taste for me, it's more about supporting a local economy that has a commitment to the community they serve. i recognize my good fortune.

kayemme

I agree that the word "organic" does not mean anything these days. It has been watered down by many big agri-businesses so they can label their foods as such and make more money.

However, I work with many world-class cancer researchers in Seattle and they do in fact agree that pesticides are bad. Don't eat them. I guess that makes these scientists "tree-huggers" . Or better referred to as "stay-alivers"!

We are not talking about obviously poisonous plants. To speak to your point that plants give off toxins.

If there is a claim on a label that something is organic then it has to be backed up by Certification!! You cannot label something as Organic that has not been Certified to legal Standards!! It is prosecutable by law.

If anyone has any queries on how Certification is done or how land and then products produced off that land are converted to organic statuts then please feel free to ask. I do this 5 days a week!

I think the question is about the rulings on how the labels are designed: It can be claimed to be "organic" if 70% of the ingredients are "organic" but as we all know (at least most of us) the USDA has actually lowered the bar of organic to its most minimum definition. And that makes sense when talking about organic as a marketing practice, which (no doubt at all ) it is.

However, there is true organic farming and this is not likely what you would find at any grocery store. And there's responsible farming, too, where sometimes pesticides are used as a last resort. In my mind, that is still "organic" because it's a last resort and not part of the growing practice. This is where the difference is for me.

I eat conventional vegetables sometimes and, really, I'm kind of grateful to do so. I would just prefer that commercial farmers had a more vested interest in their product that revolved around quality and environmental stewardship rather than their fat pockets.

And we can't really lay that responsibility on them 100%. It's up to us to make those decisions for them, using what is most important to them: their revenues. So I do my best to drop out of the system as much as possible.

lisamarie2181

What does it matter who owns the organic company??? They still have to have an independent audit to achieve and comply with the Standards and gain Certification. They do not Self Certify (that's where I come in) Your use of the terminology (complete Idiot) implies that as Organic Auditors we do not do our job. I do my job and twice I have had to have the Police present to get me off farm as I de-certfied a producer on the spot.
Natural is not organic and has nothing to do with the Organic argument.
Nutritional labels has nothing to do with Organic argument.
A little mixed up rant I feel but good you felt the need to share,
[/quote]

This guy is spot on in my opinion. Just because alot of large companies may be the parent company does not mean they have their hands in there completely. Alot of organic farmers take great pride in what they do and dont fall to big money. They believe in providing a quality product with ethical practices. Alot of people seem to think the usda and fda are the end all be all in what is right and wrong, but people are getting sicker and more diseases are running rampant, and no one questions our food supply? Back in the day, most food was organic, but because of mass production, they are concerned about the mighty dollar and not your health. Do u ever question products on the shelf that have more than half the ingredient list incomprehensible? These conventional companies add so much filler to foods, it practically has no nutrition. If u compared a convenient conventional boxed product to an organic one, there will be a vast difference. It isnt just produce but convenience foods are vastly different and majority are made with whole ingredients, not lab created fillers and junk. You get a better product. Alot of organic farmers, or ones that non certified farms but have the same practices live that healthy lifestyle and want to provide the same product for their consumers. Alot of the farmers at the farmers markets by me do not use chemicals and pesticides, and its locally grown which is even better. The government agencies are going to tell you these things are ok to consume because if they didnt, they would lose money! The more i have learned of a clean lifestyle and holistic living, i have questioned the government. They care about money, not your health. We have to go to other countries to be treated holistically for certain illnesses, ever wonder why that is? Because if word got out that optimum health and nutrition could possibly ( and i say that lightly because i have seen documented cases of cancer that were supposedly incureable but were cured holistically, go figure) cure illnesses, then people would get healthy and wouldnt need to pop a pill for every little ailment and healthcare would suffer, see what im getting at? Your body is a powerful thing and can heal itself if given the proper nutrition and things it needs to heal. Most just never have the determination to get to that point because of the way we were brought up on convenience.

I know there are alot that dont believe in the holistic way and to each his own, i used to be one of them, until i actually took it upon myself and researched and gained the knowledge to know better. If you are an open minded person and are willing to open yourself to a completely different way, i urge you too. Since i have made this change everything has gotten better, and not just speaking of organics because i do struggle w being able to buy them all the time, but is it all about nutrtion and putting the right things in your body and processed food, chemicals, pesticides, additives and fillers are not meant to be in your body. Vitamins, minerals and nutrients are whats important. Some things are definitely worth buying organic in my opinion.

Just my view point, Do t go by what others say, research it and decide for yourself