Explain why "organic" is better?
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Try a grass-fed sirloin steak and then back to us.0
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Well, I won't say that pesticides don't have any effect on us (not saying they do either - I don't really know). But, since I live on a farm and they spray at least twice a year, I won't be avoiding it anytime soon LOL.
But I do have issues with the crop yield of organic. It is not sustainable to feed the world population (IMO). I don't see how it could be. There just isn't enough farm land to grow enough food organically for all the people of the world.
^^DING DING DING DING DING!! You've got it! You cannot feed the world with organic crop yields. At present, however, an individual farmer/corporation can make more money selling "organic" than "conventional".
One of the benefits of organic is that it tends to be more local/seasonal because it won't do well travelling long distances or in storage for extended periods, therefore the path from farm to fork is often shorter and the nutrients may be retained better (due to freshness).0 -
Watch Food, Inc, Super Size Me, etc. I agree that it's not sustainable for the entire world to eat organic but it's also not sustainable for the entire world to eat meat.
http://www.ajcn.org/content/78/3/660S.full
I disagree that organic farming takes more room as farming had almost left MA but now is coming back with smaller farms that can fit in smaller places.
I also say that organic can be a blanket term that hurts smaller farmers. My favorite CSA's are not organic because of the vague terms that govern it and if there was a huge blight, they want to reserve the right to save some of the crop, especially if people are depending on it. However, we didn't have tomatoes one year because of bugs. That's life, same as if you grow them in your yard. Same thing goes for meat eaters, if a small scale farmer needs to help a sick or injured cow with a small amount of antibiotics, that's fine by me instead of just pushing antibiotics down their throats like large factory farms.0 -
Unless something has changed radically in the couple of years since I took horticulture in college, the USDA cannot conclusively prove that organic produce is better for you than non-organic.0
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If you eat organic for a while then go back to regular, you can taste the pesticides (especially on berries). Pesticides are only one of a million things that may or may not cause cancer and/or other health problems.0
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Well, I won't say that pesticides don't have any effect on us (not saying they do either - I don't really know). But, since I live on a farm and they spray at least twice a year, I won't be avoiding it anytime soon LOL.
But I do have issues with the crop yield of organic. It is not sustainable to feed the world population (IMO). I don't see how it could be. There just isn't enough farm land to grow enough food organically for all the people of the world.
^^DING DING DING DING DING!! You've got it! You cannot feed the world with organic crop yields. At present, however, an individual farmer/corporation can make more money selling "organic" than "conventional.
One of the benefits of organic is that it tends to be more local/seasonal because it won't do well travelling long distances or in storage for extended periods, therefore the path from farm to fork is often shorter and the nutrients may be retained better (due to freshness).
A reason why often frozen veg are best. Picked and then frozen on the field before shipping. Although I will admit not as tasty but often cheaper and more nutrioius than any thing else ("organically" grown or otherwise) that is eaten after a few days of picking and shipping
(I know you can get frozen "organic" but these items tend to be very pricey)0 -
Try a grass-fed sirloin steak and then back to us.
any steak that is dry hung (matured) for long enough will taste great. in the same way that grass fed beef that is wet hung or dry hung for too little time will taste poor.
I have eaten a 12 year old milking cow that was matured correctly and it was the best piece of meat ever. And the farmer was not organic. Yes, a dairy cow not beef cattle.0 -
Well, I won't say that pesticides don't have any effect on us (not saying they do either - I don't really know). But, since I live on a farm and they spray at least twice a year, I won't be avoiding it anytime soon LOL.
But I do have issues with the crop yield of organic. It is not sustainable to feed the world population (IMO). I don't see how it could be. There just isn't enough farm land to grow enough food organically for all the people of the world.
^^DING DING DING DING DING!! You've got it! You cannot feed the world with organic crop yields. At present, however, an individual farmer/corporation can make more money selling "organic" than "conventional".
(I know you can get frozen "organic" but these items tend to be very pricey)
One of the benefits of organic is that it tends to be more local/seasonal because it won't do well travelling long distances or in storage for extended periods, therefore the path from farm to fork is often shorter and the nutrients may be retained better (due to freshness).
A reason why often frozen veg are best. Picked and then frozen on the field before shipping. Although I will admit not as tasty but often cheaper and more nutrioius than any thing else ("organically" grown or otherwise) that is eaten after a few days of picking and shipping
I agree with those points, that frozen vegetables are better/easier and eating locally/organically is hard. I think eating local "saves" more of the environment than just blanket terms of "organic." Read "Animal, Vegetable, Miracle" for a look at a "localvore" for a year. It's expensive and difficult but rewarding too.0 -
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It isn't poisonous. That seems self-explanatory.
So you are implying that non-organic IS poisonous? Got anything scientific to back that up?
Got any scientific evidence to back up your implied claim that bugs and manure are bad?
Generally speaking, I prefer not to eat bugs in manure. Manure can (usually?) cares E-coli. Bugs, well, they are icky (but I suppose there's nothing wrong with eating them).
You eat yeast every time you eat raised carb sources, such as bread. You eat uric acid(found in pee) each time you eat meat.
Also, most of the e-coli scares (at least the spinach one) was caused by deer feces that were in the water/irrigation of the farms. The product wasn't washed well, etc, not caused by manure fertilizer.
Source:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44204554/ns/health-infectious_diseases/t/deer-droppings-proven-cause-e-coli-outbreak/0 -
You can't wash off chemicals and pesticides that have seeped into the cracks and pores of your veggies. It's poison.
Advocates(tree huggers) say organic is better, health experts do not. Infact, plants themselves give off toxins that can be harmful.
The organic movement, much like the 'green' movement is a marketing scheme that is making people who produce green products lots of money. You can buy organic cleaners and dish soap and paper products... some people are getting very rich off people who fear for their lives because someone says their food is poison.
I don't do the cleaners and such. I just don't like to eat poison, but I use chemicals for cleaning because they work better. Organic food TASTES better, chemicals CLEAN better. It's pretty simple to me.0 -
Well, every farmer I know rotates crops. Every.single.year. We rotate between wheat, soybeans,and feed corn. Granted our farmer (we lease our land to the neighbor) only does between 2K and 3K acres a year, so not a huge farming conglomerate. But all the farmers here definitely rotate their crops.
My family farms 1-2k acres total (varies year to year) and there's always rotation. In fact, in a no till farming environment, you HAVE to rotate!0 -
These posts in some ways crack me up and I often question the intent to begin with ...
"I think _____ is wrong and stupid. Now, everyone argue!"
lol
my thoughts exactly. OP needs to take a chill pill.
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If the view of wendyterry is pro, then organic is probably just exactly the same as other foods just much much more expensive.
Chemicals equals organo phosphates - all natural you know. Or nitrogen based fertiliser, nitrogen being that really dangerous gas.
As for blind tastings of products organic versus proper conventional farming,it has be done and organic never fairs better. That's the problem with taste buds, the majority of us have very poor taste, which explains why Fast Food Outlets exist.
Maybe it's because what I buy is grown locally? I think local food makes a big difference too because it's fresh. I don't add chemicals to my own plants either. They taste the best of all.
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You cannot feed the world with organic crop yields.
Who is trying to feed the whole world? Isn't that part of the problem, shipping food far away on trucks, people don't grown their own anymore?0 -
my thoughts exactly. OP needs to take a chill pill.
:huh: I haven't replied to this thread in a half hour. I'm talking about boobs now.0 -
when i think organic, i'm thinking eggs/milk/etc.. stuff that actually involves animals, though the USDA definition is below - this is what i think of "Animals that produce meat, poultry, eggs, and dairy products do not take antibiotics or growth hormones. "
Organic food is produced by farmers who emphasize the use of renewable resources and the conservation of soil and water to enhance environmental quality for future generations. Organic meat, poultry, eggs, and dairy products come from animals that are given no antibiotics or growth hormones. Organic food is produced without using most conventional pesticides; fertilizers made with synthetic ingredients or sewage sludge; bioengineering; or ionizing radiation. Before a product can be labeled "organic," a Government-approved certifier inspects the farm where the food is grown to make sure the farmer is following all the rules necessary to meet USDA organic standards. Companies that handle or process organic food before it gets to your local supermarket or restaurant must be certified, too.
No antibiotics? What if they get an infection? The rancher just lets 300lbs of beef die?
There's rules in place if an animal needs an antibiotic it'll have to wait a certain amount of days before it can be processed for consumption. They use antibiotics for other purposes, not just infections which is what they are more speaking about. Some diseases and animals if they the animal gets it then it is marked for death and not safe for human consumption. Depends on the animal, what the animal is being used for and the disease.0 -
Originally posted by me on 22/07/12
This is my job - I inspect organic and conventional farms for a living. There are certain things which people should definately buy as organic:
1: Eggs - conventional and free range egg farmers use chemicals in the feeds called Synthatic Amino Acids - some of these are banned in the human food chain as they are carcinogens (can cause cancer) - ironically they can be used in monogastric (single stomach) animal feeds. These chemicals are banned from organic animal feeds.
2: Milk - conventiol farmers have no restriction on the amount of processed compound feed given to dairy cows - in fact they do not even have to have access to pasture - this means on some dairy farms cattle never set foot in the fields. On orgnaic farms they have to have a minimum of 60% forage on a daily basis and they have to have access to pasture when weather permits. Due to the 60% forage rule most organic dairy farmers feed red clover silage which is high in protein but as a side health benefit this also generates more omega oils in the milk produced.
3: Fruit and veg if you can afford it - some conventional lettuce for example can be sprayed 10 x - sprays banned in organic production systems.
4: meat if you can afford it especially pork and chicken - if you have ever seen a broiler house containing 30 - 100,000 birds you would never buy conventional poultry again. Organic birds have to have access to pasture and the stocking densities are massively different. Also pigs in conventional intensive systems is awful - fed and live on slatted floors with a slurry pit underneath them. Organic pigs ahve to have to have access to pasture, wallows and shade - their is nothing finer than seeing an organic pig rooting around a field.
5: GM depending on your belief and morals. 90% of conventional animals feed will contain GM modified organisms. These are outrightly banned in organic production. Use will result in instant de-certification of all production enterprises in contact with the GM product including fields which the animals have been on.
Hope this helps to enlighten your decisions,
S.
^^This^^
Animal living conditions. I do not care about organic produce very much. But it is important to me that animal products come with as few side effects as possible. Will it really make a difference in the long run? Perhaps not, but I won't know unless I try.
I feed my child "regular" grapes and bananas, but organic milk. Everything else, to me, is cost-related.
I do, however, have a passion to want education for consumers and groceryt stores to buy and sell the "visually unappealing" produce for 1/2 price. Win-Win-Win. I save money, they have less waste, consumers learn that even ugly vegetables are tasty.0 -
"With organic farming, farmers tend to rotate crops or just pull weeds to manage them. With conventional produce, they spray more pesticides, and rarely rotate the soil. "
Well, every farmer I know rotates crops. Every.single.year. We rotate between wheat, soybeans,and feed corn. Granted our farmer (we lease our land to the neighbor) only does between 2K and 3K acres a year, so not a huge farming conglomerate. But all the farmers here definitely rotate their crops.
And "pulling weeds" Really? On THOUSANDS of acres? Wow...so not going to sustain the world.
EVERY farmer? EVERY single year? You must not know a lot about farming....
Ever hear the term "corn on corn"?0
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