Have any of you tried the Paleo Diet? Success???

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  • healthymission92
    healthymission92 Posts: 157
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    What would you think of someone who doesn't eat much meat (chicken occasionally) how would they do on a paleo/primal diet?
    I eat fish, eggs and sometimes chicken, but I know paleo/primal people mainly get their cals from meats.
  • VegesaurusRex
    VegesaurusRex Posts: 1,018
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    I did make the mistake of commenting on that post and others titled "Paleo or Vegan" or something similar.

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    The title of the string was, "Considering being a vegan?" Nothing ambiguous about it, and you invited yourself right in, which by the way was fine with me, since I am not afraid of people disagreeing with me. And there were many other Paleos who invited themselves there. Again no problem. Vegans are not sensitive to criticism like Paleos. That is because our philosophy is not based on myths and phony anthropology.
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    I am avoiding them now. I have no problems with difference of opinion, but I cannot stand opinions touted as FACT and disrespecting others.

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    Gee. We cite journals like Nature and Science and we have OPINIONS. You give anecdotal stories about your family and you have FACT. Like I said, Paleos have an interesting view of fact and fiction.
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    There is nothing in my post that is disrespectful or attacking vegans. I am merely presenting a view that may have never been considered. I challenge myself, and my beliefs, all the time as well.

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    When we give study after study showing a definitive relationship between eating meat and chronic diseases, when we quote top academic journals supporting our position, and when we quote and refer to REAL anthropological studies as opposed to anthropological pop opinion, it is disrespectful to say we are giving opinion and you are giving fact. Indeed it is just the opposite.
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    I am not against vegans, but no, I do not understand the "ethical" choice for it and I've commented why before.

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    Are you actually saying that ethical choices are hard for you to understand?
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    The comments from Vegasaurus will no longer get reasonable, logical comments from me, but I should be able to share my opinions on posts that are applicable to me. Such as this one.

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    My comments have NEVER gotten reasonable comments from you. You give only storys about your family and friends. Obviously you do not understand that anecdotal information has no place in science.
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    [/quote]
  • VegesaurusRex
    VegesaurusRex Posts: 1,018
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    Vegesaurus: why are you in this post with your misinformation? The title of the post is "Have any of you tried the Paleo Diet? Success??" You have obviously not tried it. You know nothing about it.

    I've read your misinformation so many times that it is clear that it is a waste of time to respond to you. Stay on your vegan posts, please, unless you actually want to strive to open your mind and challenge your beliefs (that you are passing off as facts). When i first started on MFP I was stupid enough to get on the posts "Paleo or Vegan" and there you were. Now I stay away; please afford us the same courtesy.

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    Exactly the response I would expect from you. Were you upset about the parts about the Inuits? Or the fact that the article quotes quack journals like Nature and Science for actual scientific facts as opposed to the pop science nonsense that Paleos are so used to and believe so readily.

    The OP asked for information on the Paleo Diet. Suppose she had said she was contemplating taking arsenic in large doses. Would it be off topic to tell her that arsenic was poison, and to give top scientific journals as sources for that information? Well, guess what? Paleo is poison.

    I no longer fully read your posts because you are not presenting information. I'm not upset about the part about Inuit, because you know almost nothing, and certainly have no real experience, and I live with Inuit. Different groups had different practices. Cannibalism was extremely taboo and Inuit were ruled by taboos.

    BTW, I don't just read popular journals. I don't just study health and nutrition, but also history. I also look around me and see what's going on. I also don't form my opinions based purely on the opinions of others (article writers). I actually value real-life experience. Maybe you can't relate to me, nor me to you, but have some clue that we should respectfully disagree based on real-life experience.

    Spreading opinions as though they are fact is harmful, that's why your posts are worth ignoring. No, what i think isn't for everyone and I usually specify that. I do NOT promote my opinions as fact. That irks me.

    Honestly, I don't know how you could do better than quoting Nature, Science and PNAS. The information I gave here is accurate and scientific. THESE ARE NOT OPINIONS. Nature, Science and PNAS do not publish opinions other than as editorials.
  • VegesaurusRex
    VegesaurusRex Posts: 1,018
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    When a prospective vegan posts a thread seeking advice on going vegan, I am personally irked by detractors who come on with cautionary tales to tell. Inwardly, I might think 'Why are they here and why are they trying to convince the OP to back away from veganism?' It sounds like you may be feeling somewhat similarly now that the subject is paleo.

    I do have an opinion on paleo, just as you do on veganism. Looking at the top 20 diet books of 2012, paleo and veganism are both 'hot' this year. I classify both as diet fads which will fade. It may surprise you to think that I think of the vegan diet as a fad, but I do when it is presented as a weight loss panacea. The public attention span is very short and when there's a new flavor diet book that promises fast-n-easy weight loss, paleo and vegan diet books will get tossed in the garbage can, and that will be that. There will still be ancestral diets and ethical vegans who continue plodding along however.



    Dagnabbit! I wish you'd stop saying things with which I completely agree. (Although having never read many "diet books" in my lifetime, I was not aware that paleo (or veganism, for that matter) was being touted for its a "weight loss" as much as for the purported health benefits.)

    (For the record, I still think a veg*n diet is less-than-ideal for optimal human performance, but I can at least appreciate your seemingly reasoned, whole foods approach to it.)

    Just to clear this up, VEGANISM is an ethic, that also has health benefits. No study I am aware of has ever shown a relationship between eating fruits and vegetables and getting chronic diseases. Virtually every study ever done on the subject has found a relationship between eating excess meat and chronic diseases. There is no such thing as eating too many fruits and vegetables.
  • jofjltncb6
    jofjltncb6 Posts: 34,415 Member
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    Then I guess fortunately for me, my version of the "paleo" diet involves eating a lot of fruits and vegetables (as well as generous amounts of properly-raised meats).
  • VegesaurusRex
    VegesaurusRex Posts: 1,018
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    Then I guess fortunately for me, my version of the "paleo" diet involves eating a lot of fruits and vegetables (as well as generous amounts of properly-raised meats).

    Since humans are physiologically herbivores, eating any meat as part of your diet will hurt you. You might want to check out this recent major study (and there are hundreds of others that say the same thing):

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2012/mar/12/red-meat-death-heart-cancer
  • jofjltncb6
    jofjltncb6 Posts: 34,415 Member
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    Then I guess fortunately for me, my version of the "paleo" diet involves eating a lot of fruits and vegetables (as well as generous amounts of properly-raised meats).

    Since humans are physiologically herbivores, eating any meat as part of your diet will hurt you. You might want to check out this recent major study (and there are hundreds of others that say the same thing):

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2012/mar/12/red-meat-death-heart-cancer

    Is that one of those where people misread and confuse correlation with causation? Because I've seen many of those. (On my phone so difficult to follow the link currently.)
  • VegesaurusRex
    VegesaurusRex Posts: 1,018
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    Then I guess fortunately for me, my version of the "paleo" diet involves eating a lot of fruits and vegetables (as well as generous amounts of properly-raised meats).

    Since humans are physiologically herbivores, eating any meat as part of your diet will hurt you. You might want to check out this recent major study (and there are hundreds of others that say the same thing):

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2012/mar/12/red-meat-death-heart-cancer

    Is that one of those where people misread and confuse correlation with causation? Because I've seen many of those. (On my phone so difficult to follow the link currently.)

    Okay, you are in the "Confusing correlation with causation" crowd. I don't know how to put this politely, but people who bring up that argument have usually only had one basic course in statistics, and have never really understood why people do longitudinal studies. I am truly not trying to offend you, but if you believe that any study that does not control for every independent variable does not show causation, then, although you are technically right, you have no clue what statistics is all about. Sorry. Truly I am.

    The study was done by the British Heart Association, who have professional statisticians available to review their work. If you believe that this study does not show a definitive correlation between meat eating and chronic diseases, then I have a challenge for you. I would like you to give me a citation to one study, any study, that controls for independent variables, and that concerns human diet, that you feel does show causation. My guess is that you cannot come up with one. Therefore the correlation vs causation argument is merely an excuse for not believing what you do not want to believe.

    As for humans being herbivores here is a bit about the Editor of the the American Journal of Cardiology:
    William C. Roberts MD has five decades of experience in the field of cardiology, written over 1300 scientific publications, a dozen cardiology textbooks, and has been editor in chief of the American Journal of Cardiology for a quarter of a century. He is arguably the most highly regarded cardiologist in the world today.

    In his 2008 editorial "The Cause of Atherosclerosis", published in the peer reviewed journal Nutrition in Clinical Practice, Roberts states that there is a single, sole cause to heart disease: cholesterol. If your total cholesterol is below 150 and LDL is below 70, you are essentially heart attack proof. What is the cause of high cholesterol? Saturated fat and animal products:

    Atherosclerosis is easily produced in nonhuman
    herbivores (eg, rabbits, monkeys) by feeding them
    a high cholesterol (eg, egg yolks) or high saturated
    fat (eg, animal fat) diet… And atherosclerosis was not produced in a
    minority of rats fed these diets, it was produced in
    100% of the animals! Indeed, atherosclerosis is one
    of the easiest diseases to produce experimentally,
    but the experimental animal must be an herbivore.
    It is not possible to produce atherosclerosis in a
    carnivore…"

    He elaborates in an earlier editorial:

    It is virtually impossible, for example, to produce atherosclerosis in a dog even when 100 grams of cholesterol and 120 grams of butter fat are added to its meat ration. (This amount of cholesterol
    is approximately 200 times the average amount that human beings in the USA
    eat each day!). (The American Journal of Cardiology, 1990, vol. 66,896.)

    He then utterly annihilates the human omnivore myth in a single sentence. here it is:

    ***Because humans get atherosclerosis, and atherosclerosis
    is a disease only of herbivores, humans also must be
    herbivores.***

    At once the insanity of our times comes into razor sharp relief.

    Some may debate whether cholesterol is the sole cause of heart disease. It does not matter, the fact remains that atherosclerosis occurs only in herbivores.

    If humans were physiological omnivores, heart disease would not exist, let alone be America's #1 killer for over a hundred years.

    It may not be the least bit hyperbolic to say that the existence of heart disease in humans is proof that we, as a species, are vegans.

    In any case, a low fat vegan diet has been proven again and again to be the cure for heart disease. A mountain of clinical evidence supports this.

    According to Roberts, those who are utterly immune to heart disease without the use of statin drugs are pure vegetarian fruit eaters. His own exact words. fruit eaters.
  • jofjltncb6
    jofjltncb6 Posts: 34,415 Member
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    (Won't be at a computer to read the link until later tonight, but will then. Meanwhile, yes, I am well-learned in statistics and other mathematical concepts (even if decades ago)...(a human capability likely developed as a result of meat consumption long ago =P ... )

    ETA: And the day I let some online words of someone I don't even know offend me is the day I will hang up my mouse for good.
  • VegesaurusRex
    VegesaurusRex Posts: 1,018
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    (Won't be at a computer to read the link until later tonight, but will then. Meanwhile, yes, I am well-learned in statistics and other mathematical concepts (even if decades ago)...(a human capability likely developed as a result of meat consumption long ago =P ... )

    ETA: And the day I let some online words of someone I don't even know offend me is the day I will hang up my mouse for good.

    Not trying to ruin your day.
  • jofjltncb6
    jofjltncb6 Posts: 34,415 Member
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    (Won't be at a computer to read the link until later tonight, but will then. Meanwhile, yes, I am well-learned in statistics and other mathematical concepts (even if decades ago)...(a human capability likely developed as a result of meat consumption long ago =P ... )

    ETA: And the day I let some online words of someone I don't even know offend me is the day I will hang up my mouse for good.

    Not trying to ruin your day.

    You couldn't do that even if you did try.
  • Lupercalia
    Lupercalia Posts: 1,857 Member
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    In response to the original question:

    Yes, I am eating my own combination of paleo/primal. What that means is that I am essentially paleo, but I do eat organic butter now and again. I'm allergic to dairy.

    I've been eating this way for about six weeks, and have lost 16 lbs. Eliminating wheat was a huge eyeopener for me, and I credit that change with a lot of my improvements, though they certainly could be the result of a combination of dietary changes. I think adding back the saturated fats into my diet have helped me a lot, too. Here's what's happened:

    --My arthritis is GONE
    --Plantar Fasciitis is GONE
    --TFL problems GONE
    --My skin troubles are GONE
    --Dry cracked heels are GONE
    --Digestive problems are GONE
    --NO CRAVINGS
    --NO HUNGER PANGS
    --Improved energy levels throughout the day
    --Stabilised moods, much more positive attitude overall
    --Sleeping better
    --Steadily losing pounds/inches

    For me, this "diet" has far too many benefits for me to want to return to my old high carb/low fat "balanced" diet, or the vegetarian diet I maintained for about 20 years. I've never felt better. I'm still very overweight, but as that changes I don't imagine I'll ever want to return to how I ate in my previous life.
  • jofjltncb6
    jofjltncb6 Posts: 34,415 Member
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    I thought this felt a little de ja vu: https://api.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/682808-hunter-gatherers-vs-westerners?page=15

    And the comments to the originally provided link (http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2012/mar/12/red-meat-death-heart-cancer) provide plenty of appropriate criticism for the conclusions drawn in the study. (I could post a string of links to critiques of the conclusions drawn, but will not. I will just say that they are easily available for anyone to find doing any search on this research. (Am I being lazy? Eh, maybe...but honestly, I need to go accomplish some real life matters, and yes, one of which involves cooking some steaks (from that family-raised beef) for dinner.)

    As for me personally, I have once again not been swayed to become a veg*n as the result of information posted in the MFP forum. Perhaps another day.
  • greedygirl118
    greedygirl118 Posts: 37
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    A recent Swedish study which followed a sample group for 25 years makes interesting reading. High-protein, low-carb diets are very popular in Sweden. Basically, there's been a big spike in cholesterol, and people have got fatter anyway.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/06/11/health-atkins-diet-blamed-cholesterol-heart-disease_n_1585766.html
  • TheRealParisLove
    TheRealParisLove Posts: 1,907 Member
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    Wow! I had no idea that Paleolithic Diet was a religion. This thread is a real eye opener.
  • Mcmilligen
    Mcmilligen Posts: 332 Member
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    Bump!
  • jofjltncb6
    jofjltncb6 Posts: 34,415 Member
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    Wow! I had no idea that Paleolithic Diet was a religion. This thread is a real eye opener.

    That's your takeaway from *this* thread?

    My guess is that you already thought that before reading this, making it a slightly less real eye opener.
  • Jenny021880
    Jenny021880 Posts: 11 Member
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    I found it to be too expensive to stay on for a very long time.
  • relucas81
    relucas81 Posts: 76
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    To the vegans... Those who eat paleo can and will be just as healthy as you. Your way is not correct, there way is not wrong.

    To the paleos.. Those who are vegan can and will be just as healthy as you. Your way is not correct, there way is not wrong.

    Argument resolved.
  • wlgreen379
    wlgreen379 Posts: 104
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    I think it was more of the claim that dinosaurs ate people...

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