Why do people get so provoked by vegans?

jofjltncb6

I don't think it's people are provoked by vegans in general. I think it's like anyone else preaching their decisions as if we all have to agree with their choices. It's no different than bible thumpers shoving beliefs down your throat, Athiests shoving their non-belief beliefs (wow reads funny) down your throat, etc. While it's not every vegan, bible thumper, or Athiest, it's just a handful who act that way and people just get annoyed. In reality, most don't care and don't act out like that. But like any group, you have SOMEONE who is extreme and annoying about what they believe in.

But the difference is someone wouldn't post "I'M BURNING A BIBLE RIGHT NOW!" on a Christian thread. Why do people feel the need to post "YUM! I WANT STEAK! THOSE COWS DESERVED IT!" on a vegan thread? That happened yesterday after someone posted the results of a study. I don't comment on threads with meat in the title, so non-vegans should do the same if they only intend to upset the others.

After reading through the entire thread that this person is referring to I must admit that this is the type of vegan that makes my blood boil,
I dont preach my beliefs to anyone, I dont want to be scolded, or compared to a slave trader because I choose to eat meat,
the OP I have absolutly no problem with anyones choices, as long as they are not illegal or directly concern me or my family.

And yet, if someone truly believes that what another is doing is murder, or slavetrading, or some other heinous label, I believe it would be disingenuous to expect them *not* to "preach" their opinion to others. I will still be annoyed by it, and may tell them that I find them annoying, but I would not say that they should not do it.

(Full disclosure: I am an omnivore who cares about how animals are treated (for various reasons) and do not have any ethical dilemma in that. I also consider myself keenly aware of hypocrisy, whether it be in the group whose opinions with which I agree or the other side. And for what it's worth, I still struggle with reconciling the field kills of cute furry animals in the harvest of a veg*n's food with the kill of slightly more than ONE grass-fed/finished cow per year to feed my family. Or said another way, I do not see how indirect deaths are somehow morally superior to more direct deaths.)

Need2bfit918

I don't think it's people are provoked by vegans in general. I think it's like anyone else preaching their decisions as if we all have to agree with their choices. It's no different than bible thumpers shoving beliefs down your throat, Athiests shoving their non-belief beliefs (wow reads funny) down your throat, etc. While it's not every vegan, bible thumper, or Athiest, it's just a handful who act that way and people just get annoyed. In reality, most don't care and don't act out like that. But like any group, you have SOMEONE who is extreme and annoying about what they believe in.

But the difference is someone wouldn't post "I'M BURNING A BIBLE RIGHT NOW!" on a Christian thread. Why do people feel the need to post "YUM! I WANT STEAK! THOSE COWS DESERVED IT!" on a vegan thread? That happened yesterday after someone posted the results of a study. I don't comment on threads with meat in the title, so non-vegans should do the same if they only intend to upset the others.

After reading through the entire thread that this person is referring to I must admit that this is the type of vegan that makes my blood boil,
I dont preach my beliefs to anyone, I dont want to be scolded, or compared to a slave trader because I choose to eat meat,
the OP I have absolutly no problem with anyones choices, as long as they are not illegal or directly concern me or my family.

And yet, if someone truly believes that what another is doing is murder, or slavetrading, or some other heinous label, I believe it would be disingenuous to expect them *not* to "preach" their opinion to others. I will still be annoyed by it, and may tell them that I find them annoying, but I would not say that they should not do it.

(Full disclosure: I am an omnivore who cares about how animals are treated (for various reasons) and do not have any ethical dilemma in that. I also consider myself keenly aware of hypocrisy, whether it be in the group whose opinions with which I agree or the other side. And for what it's worth, I still struggle with reconciling the field kills of cute furry animals in the harvest of a veg*n's food with the kill of slightly more than ONE grass-fed/finished cow per year to feed my family. Or said another way, I do not see how indirect deaths are somehow morally superior to more direct deaths.)

true, but i could also argue this is a nutrition forum, not an animal rights forum. if you can not read where people are consuming meat and at least keep it civil you shouldn't be on here. i'm anti abortion so it would be inappropriate for me to hang out in a planned parenthood group.

_VoV

I don't think it's people are provoked by vegans in general. I think it's like anyone else preaching their decisions as if we all have to agree with their choices. It's no different than bible thumpers shoving beliefs down your throat, Athiests shoving their non-belief beliefs (wow reads funny) down your throat, etc. While it's not every vegan, bible thumper, or Athiest, it's just a handful who act that way and people just get annoyed. In reality, most don't care and don't act out like that. But like any group, you have SOMEONE who is extreme and annoying about what they believe in.

But the difference is someone wouldn't post "I'M BURNING A BIBLE RIGHT NOW!" on a Christian thread. Why do people feel the need to post "YUM! I WANT STEAK! THOSE COWS DESERVED IT!" on a vegan thread? That happened yesterday after someone posted the results of a study. I don't comment on threads with meat in the title, so non-vegans should do the same if they only intend to upset the others.

After reading through the entire thread that this person is referring to I must admit that this is the type of vegan that makes my blood boil,
I dont preach my beliefs to anyone, I dont want to be scolded, or compared to a slave trader because I choose to eat meat,
the OP I have absolutly no problem with anyones choices, as long as they are not illegal or directly concern me or my family.

And yet, if someone truly believes that what another is doing is murder, or slavetrading, or some other heinous label, I believe it would be disingenuous to expect them *not* to "preach" their opinion to others. I will still be annoyed by it, and may tell them that I find them annoying, but I would not say that they should not do it.

(Full disclosure: I am an omnivore who cares about how animals are treated (for various reasons) and do not have any ethical dilemma in that. I also consider myself keenly aware of hypocrisy, whether it be in the group whose opinions with which I agree or the other side. And for what it's worth, I still struggle with reconciling the field kills of cute furry animals in the harvest of a veg*n's food with the kill of slightly more than ONE grass-fed/finished cow per year to feed my family. Or said another way, I do not see how indirect deaths are somehow morally superior to more direct deaths.)

I read once of a horrible field-harvesting accident involving a fawn, but I really don't know how often something like this happens. Also, most animals used for meat in this country are grain fed for at least some of the time. The most conservative estimates say that a pound of meat requires at least 2 lb. of grain to produce. So, in that scenario, there's actually more harvesting of crops going on. Here's the article I used in basing these comments: http://www.extension.org/pages/35850/on-average-how-many-pounds-of-corn-make-one-pound-of-beef-assuming-an-all-grain-diet-from-backgroundi

Do you have any sources for the extent to which animals are killed in harvesting? Futuristic high-rise hydroponic farms are starting to sound really good to me, if you are right.

Need2bfit918

deleted

jofjltncb6

I read once of a horrible field-harvesting accident involving a fawn, but I really don't know how often something like this happens. Also, most animals used for meat in this country are grain fed for at least some of the time. The most conservative estimates say that a pound of meat requires at least 2 lb. of grain to produce. So, in that scenario, there's actually more harvesting of crops going on. Here's the article I used in basing these comments: http://www.extension.org/pages/35850/on-average-how-many-pounds-of-corn-make-one-pound-of-beef-assuming-an-all-grain-diet-from-backgroundi

Do you have any sources for the extent to which animals are killed in harvesting? Futuristic high-rise hydroponics farms are starting to sound really good to me, if you are right.

Indeed, which is (one of the reasons, although admittedly less than what I believe is a significant nutritional difference) why I take great effort in obtaining beef that is *not* grain fed (or is only lightly supplemented with grain). My last bulk beef acquisition was pasture-raised on my own family's land. (Was fortuitous for me as they typically supplement *some* grain in the final few months, but this time the drought made that difficult so they skipped that and took them early. Even still, their normal supplementing is nothing compared to the CAFO practice (*shudder*).

No, I do not have statistics on field kills. I can, however, based on personal childhood experience, acknowledge that the death-toll is substantial. (Yes, this is just anecdotal and slightly outdated, but I suspect that modern practices have not done anything to curtail this.)

_VoV

This visual presents the extent of harvest kills for various types of foods:

http://www.animalvisuals.org/projects/data/1mc/

lisamarie2181

I went vegan last year for a bit, i guess you could say I was a 60%er lol I didn't follow the no use any animal products, scour your house of all things, i pretty much just cut out meat and dairy, and I do have to admit, I NEVER felt better then when I was eating that way. It was very strange and for me being the meat eater I am, shocked it came so easy for me. I think the biggest problem with veganism is that is it very easy to topple the wrong way nutritionally. When I was eating this way, I had ABSOLUTELY no appetite and even when I ate it wasn't much, so I can see how easy it would be to get malnourished. But ones that eat correctly probably feel fantastic and just want to share. I haven't really come across alot of people trying to push their diets on me, I welcome all advice, especially if you are doing something different then myself, nice to see others points of view. But obviously they are out there, and like I said, as long as you aren't knocking what I'm doing, no problem hearing your opinion!

Though i found it hard to sustain this lifestyle for the mere fact that i wasn't the greatest cook all the time and didn't know much about vegan meals, i did fall off, but I do still try to incorporate vegetarian/vegan dishes at some point in my week, nice to have a little something different and cheaper then meat.

Beee_B

Full disclosure: I didn't read your whole post, as it is rather long.

I don't feel provoked by vegans, however I do get highly annoyed by ANYONE who preaches to me about their way as being the only path. This goes for diet (vegan, paleo, no carb, low carb) or religion and everything in between. People getting all preachy is just plain obnoxious and I have no patience for them online or in real life.

I don't have a label for how I eat. I eat some meat. I eat lots of vegetables and fruit. I try to be a "vegetarian until dinnertime," limiting meat consumption, if at all, to one meal a day. I try to avoid foods made by industrial giants, including freaky fake "meats" and anything made by companies such as ConAgra, Morningstar Farms (aka Kellogs), etc. I am good with what I eat and am happy for anyone else who finds a diet that fits their lifestyle.

This... soooooooooooooo much! x

jofjltncb6

This visual presents the extent of harvest kills for various types of foods:

http://www.animalvisuals.org/projects/data/1mc/

Interesting. I'll have to poke holes in this...er, I mean, *read* this later.

(And for what it's worth, I suspect their "beef" is CAFO beef, which, in my opinion, is raised very differently compared to how mine is raised. And wow, look at the eggs. Surprising...however, again in my specific case, (although most likely for entirely different reasons), it makes sense as my "egg provider" (again, "family farm") has experienced a significant loss (~6 chickens in the past few months) due to predators. Fortunately, that same family farm has successfully trapped about a dozen of these predators.)

ETA: Okay, I lied...I briefly skimmed the article just now. Sounds like field kills are potentially woefully misrepresented: "Davis draws his estimates from a study done on field mice in England[12], and from a study done on sugarcane fields in Hawaii." That would help bridge the gap between this report and my experience growing up in a farming community.

taylor5877

This visual presents the extent of harvest kills for various types of foods:

http://www.animalvisuals.org/projects/data/1mc/

Interesting. I'll have to poke holes in this...er, I mean, *read* this later.

(And for what it's worth, I suspect their "beef" is CAFO beef, which, in my opinion, is raised very differently compared to how mine is raised. And wow, look at the eggs. Surprising...however, again in my specific case, (although most likely for entirely different reasons), it makes sense as my "egg provider" (again, "family farm") has experienced a significant loss (~6 chickens in the past few months) due to predators. Fortunately, that same family farm has successfully trapped about a dozen of these predators.)

I don't mean this to sound as silly and condescending as it's going to but...I guess insects weren't included as "animals".

_VoV

Don't even get me started on CAFO beef.

I took Rte 40 through the Texas panhandle on a road trip a couple years ago. It felt like I had entered hell for cows. Crowded muck-covered feedlots, cattle trucks and slaughterhouses were everywhere. Even the cadillac sculpture attraction didn't make up for it. That night, I made it to New Mexico and felt as sad and discouraged as I have in my entire life.

Edit: I grew up on a 5-acre self-sufficiency farm. We raised black angus, chickens and turkeys at various points. Each fall, the oldest black angus would be picked up on a cattle truck for the slaughterhouse. I always worried about how they were treated, since they had names and were bottle-fed by us as calves. Still, their lives looked to be far better than what I was witness to outside Amarillo.

jofjltncb6

This visual presents the extent of harvest kills for various types of foods:

http://www.animalvisuals.org/projects/data/1mc/

Interesting. I'll have to poke holes in this...er, I mean, *read* this later.

(And for what it's worth, I suspect their "beef" is CAFO beef, which, in my opinion, is raised very differently compared to how mine is raised. And wow, look at the eggs. Surprising...however, again in my specific case, (although most likely for entirely different reasons), it makes sense as my "egg provider" (again, "family farm") has experienced a significant loss (~6 chickens in the past few months) due to predators. Fortunately, that same family farm has successfully trapped about a dozen of these predators.)

I don't mean this to sound as silly and condescending as it's going to but...I guess insects weren't included as "animals".

And apparently, (although I'll admit, I haven't actually read the article yet), neither were rabbits, squirrels, foxes, raccoon, snakes, etc. And then there is the mono-crop issue and its destruction of suitable farmland. (Again, all compared to *my* approach to raising beef, and chickens, and eggs, (and not compared to the large-scale, grain-fed, CAFO operations, with which I have qualms).

But anyhow, this isn't even the point of this topic. Could someone steer this back on track please? I'll do my best not to derail it.

taylor5877

this thread needed to derail and lose some seriousness long ago.

_VoV

Okay...so I have a question about vegan stereotypes.

How many people think vegans are almost always city-folk with very little exposure to the realities of the natural world and farming?

penrbrown

Okay...so I have a question about vegan stereotypes.

How many people think vegans are almost always city-folk with very little exposure to the realities of the natural world and farming?

If I'm being completely honest, I used to think this way. I've never actually met (in person) someone who was raised on a farm who was vegan.

The internet exposed me to people beyond that reality though so I recognize that many vegans are not just city-folk. Some were even raised on farms! *gasp*! But I certainly understand having that view if it's all you were ever exposed to.

jofjltncb6

Okay...so I have a question about vegan stereotypes.

How many people think vegans are almost always city-folk with very little exposure to the realities of the natural world and farming?

I'd say *mostly*, but certainly not "almost always". And I'll broadly stereotype further by saying that the city-folk are vegan due in part because they are completely detached from the physical realities of food production and the non-city-folk are vegan due in part as a direct response to their experiences with the "natural world and farming". (Despite growing up in a small town/farming community, many of my friends who were actually the children of farmers at least dabbled in veg*nism because of their experiences. I would expect that still happens today.)

(Yes, I know, these are very broad stereotypes, and others would be right to call me out on them if I were claiming that *all* fall into my incredibly neat and tidy categories...but as long as we're evaluating the entire vegan population, I'll go with what I believe are some common stereotypes that likely have at least a little basis in fact.)

Edit: to fix an extra word...although I could probably spare myself some extra grief if I deleted a whole lot more of my words.

redraidergirl2009

Okay...so I have a question about vegan stereotypes.

How many people think vegans are almost always city-folk with very little exposure to the realities of the natural world and farming?

I didn't grow up on a farm but I visited family that kept farm animals. Most of them sold them later on and they were truely free range animals. The cows and goats were out on some land and the chickens had free reign and went to sleep in a chicken coop. But it wasn't until much later on I connected these animals as the same ones I used to eat. I think lots of people don't make that connection, from seeing a chicken sandwich to a small yellow chick. They see them as two different things. I did.

_VoV

I just think some people think vegans are wide-eyed innocents and overly-sensitive, who haven't came to terms with the harsh realities in life. I also think some people think that vegans anthropomorphize animals in a childish sort of way. I just wanted a show of hands to see if this stereotype is widespread, or not.

PaleoPath4Lyfe

Okay...so I have a question about vegan stereotypes.

How many people think vegans are almost always city-folk with very little exposure to the realities of the natural world and farming?

I didn't grow up on a farm but I visited family that kept farm animals. Most of them sold them later on and they were truely free range animals. The cows and goats were out on some land and the chickens had free reign and went to sleep in a chicken coop. But it wasn't until much later on I connected these animals as the same ones I used to eat. I think lots of people don't make that connection, from seeing a chicken sandwich to a small yellow chick. They see them as two different things. I did.

That is why I try to urge people to buy local, instead of the big box or chain markets.

The Farm to Table movement needs to come back.

davert123

This is just an observation from the first page

first post - why do people get so provoked by vegans ...then goes into saying this way works for the poster but each to their own.

Then several posts say don't preach to me and tell me your way is the only way lol

To answer the question - I have no idea but people obviously do lol