Why do people get so provoked by vegans?
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razz02
Posts: 36 Member
I have found the ultimate diet for me. I workout a lot, I have a challenging career, husband and two children. I have lost 95 llbs twice after each child, not water weight, fat from eating too much when being pregnant. During that process I became an endurance athete I ran 100-150 km/week all year around for many years, lifted weights and went onto the crossfit scene.
I´ve been eating really restricted, GI and controlled for many years. I have always been hungry. Going to bed hungry for me is a rule. Freezing and falling a sleap- all to keep my lean trimmed silhouette and also- the lighter- the faster you run. Being true to my protein intake throughout the years.
After several years I´ve found that training like crazy didn´t help me anymore. Proteinshakes and scales didn´t work. I gained anyway.
I´ve come a long way nutritionwise and have read many scientific studies both at work as a legal speacialist re. marketing of food and additives for the governement and in private for my own interest to be able to perform better and keep that superlean bod. So I looked at so many research results and I found through inter alia these studies that made me decide to go vegan. They are all performed on humans for several years:
1. Vegan study- N. Barnard et al
Claim: that a plantbased, nonprocessed foodintake elevates the resting metabolic rate
The Dr. Barnard study shows a conection between, elevated resting metabolic rate and a vegan diet. A two-year randomized weight loss trial comparing a vegan diet to a more moderate low-fat diet.
Summary: A group of 64 years old women, divided into two groups. One eating ad libidum (until the felt satisfied) vegan food, only. The control group had a low cal diet. Maintenance of weightloss and continued weightloss was significant higher in the vegan group. There were also a hightened energy expenditure in the vegan diet group after each meal to appr. 16% higher than the low calorie group. The findings can support the idea of negative calorie foods. Ref: Turner Mc Greivy; Gabriell M.; Neal D Barnard; Anthony R Scialli; Obesity 2007; 15:2276-2281
2, The China study- Colin Campbell
Claim: That diseases like cancer, diabetes, ms etc are all linked to a meat and dairy diet (western diet)
I´ve only scratched at the surface of the "China study" Wich is comprehensive. 20 year study by Dr. Colin Campbell 2004. In short terms this study links western diseases to the consumption of meat. He studied children in Filipins, that has the highest amount of liver cancer in the world among children and he found that the more meat the children consumed the more livercancer they had. He argues that there are no meat that provides better nutritional value of any nutrient better than plants. And he says that we are completely misinformed regarding nutrition because of financial interests.
3. The 80/10/10 diet- Doug Graham
Claim: We lose weight, perform better on a raw, fruitbased diet with very little protein and fat - (no calorie restriction)
The calorie intake is broken down by the following: 90 to 97per cent 'sweet and non-sweet fruit' and two to six per cent 'tender, leafy greens and celery'. Zero to eight per cent is taken up by 'everything else' which includes other vegetables like cabbage, broccoli, plus fatty fruits, nuts and seeds.
_____________________________________
For me personally it was clear, I had to go the vegan way. For the health benefits and not least for the metabolic advantage.
I do the vegan 801010 as raw as possible eventhough I have organic sourdough and rice almost everyday. The change has been huge. I am never tired before I go to bed. I run further and faster now than on a meat diet. I lift heavier than before and I feel very good everyday. And I never go to bed hungry anymore. i log my food because I´ve done for almost 10 years but I don´t need to control my cals anymore like I had to before. I don´t have to work out like crazy anymore. My weight stands stable at 56-57 kg, 82% fatfree mass, 18% fatmass- reasonably lean for a woman of my age. I am satisfied with that. I acheve this with only 10% plant protein. It might be jawdropping.
I care about me and my family. I want to stick around for my kids as long as possible and I want to be an asset for them, not a liability. I do this to be as healthy and fit as possible to be able to support my children both financially and physically until they can do it themselves.
If people like meat, well keep it up. The more meat for you, you can have mine and all my milk cheese and cream etc too. It doesn´t fit my lifestyle. And no- I don´t think I am better, I only do things a different way.
Its up to you to find your way to the ultimate diet that suits you and your chosen lifestyle.
(if you re intersted in the vegan lifestyle (nutritionally) check this site, its dr. Neil Barnards site and he is very well documented : http://pcrm.org/kickstartHome/messages/?dayID=21)
Peace/
I´ve been eating really restricted, GI and controlled for many years. I have always been hungry. Going to bed hungry for me is a rule. Freezing and falling a sleap- all to keep my lean trimmed silhouette and also- the lighter- the faster you run. Being true to my protein intake throughout the years.
After several years I´ve found that training like crazy didn´t help me anymore. Proteinshakes and scales didn´t work. I gained anyway.
I´ve come a long way nutritionwise and have read many scientific studies both at work as a legal speacialist re. marketing of food and additives for the governement and in private for my own interest to be able to perform better and keep that superlean bod. So I looked at so many research results and I found through inter alia these studies that made me decide to go vegan. They are all performed on humans for several years:
1. Vegan study- N. Barnard et al
Claim: that a plantbased, nonprocessed foodintake elevates the resting metabolic rate
The Dr. Barnard study shows a conection between, elevated resting metabolic rate and a vegan diet. A two-year randomized weight loss trial comparing a vegan diet to a more moderate low-fat diet.
Summary: A group of 64 years old women, divided into two groups. One eating ad libidum (until the felt satisfied) vegan food, only. The control group had a low cal diet. Maintenance of weightloss and continued weightloss was significant higher in the vegan group. There were also a hightened energy expenditure in the vegan diet group after each meal to appr. 16% higher than the low calorie group. The findings can support the idea of negative calorie foods. Ref: Turner Mc Greivy; Gabriell M.; Neal D Barnard; Anthony R Scialli; Obesity 2007; 15:2276-2281
2, The China study- Colin Campbell
Claim: That diseases like cancer, diabetes, ms etc are all linked to a meat and dairy diet (western diet)
I´ve only scratched at the surface of the "China study" Wich is comprehensive. 20 year study by Dr. Colin Campbell 2004. In short terms this study links western diseases to the consumption of meat. He studied children in Filipins, that has the highest amount of liver cancer in the world among children and he found that the more meat the children consumed the more livercancer they had. He argues that there are no meat that provides better nutritional value of any nutrient better than plants. And he says that we are completely misinformed regarding nutrition because of financial interests.
3. The 80/10/10 diet- Doug Graham
Claim: We lose weight, perform better on a raw, fruitbased diet with very little protein and fat - (no calorie restriction)
The calorie intake is broken down by the following: 90 to 97per cent 'sweet and non-sweet fruit' and two to six per cent 'tender, leafy greens and celery'. Zero to eight per cent is taken up by 'everything else' which includes other vegetables like cabbage, broccoli, plus fatty fruits, nuts and seeds.
_____________________________________
For me personally it was clear, I had to go the vegan way. For the health benefits and not least for the metabolic advantage.
I do the vegan 801010 as raw as possible eventhough I have organic sourdough and rice almost everyday. The change has been huge. I am never tired before I go to bed. I run further and faster now than on a meat diet. I lift heavier than before and I feel very good everyday. And I never go to bed hungry anymore. i log my food because I´ve done for almost 10 years but I don´t need to control my cals anymore like I had to before. I don´t have to work out like crazy anymore. My weight stands stable at 56-57 kg, 82% fatfree mass, 18% fatmass- reasonably lean for a woman of my age. I am satisfied with that. I acheve this with only 10% plant protein. It might be jawdropping.
I care about me and my family. I want to stick around for my kids as long as possible and I want to be an asset for them, not a liability. I do this to be as healthy and fit as possible to be able to support my children both financially and physically until they can do it themselves.
If people like meat, well keep it up. The more meat for you, you can have mine and all my milk cheese and cream etc too. It doesn´t fit my lifestyle. And no- I don´t think I am better, I only do things a different way.
Its up to you to find your way to the ultimate diet that suits you and your chosen lifestyle.
(if you re intersted in the vegan lifestyle (nutritionally) check this site, its dr. Neil Barnards site and he is very well documented : http://pcrm.org/kickstartHome/messages/?dayID=21)
Peace/
0
Replies
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I don't think it is provocation by any means. Just some of us look at multiple sources and sometimes find items that contradict studies or find that information in them are left out, ignored, dismiss variables, cherry picked, etc.
So for instance linked to meat and dairy diets. Lets say instead of using dairy that is through the normal 2% you get off the shelf which can and does contain blood prior to a process to kill anything in it, namely pasteurization, was that compared to drinking raw goat milk that was hand collected to see if the processes involved could be a contributing factor.
Meats follow along the same lines. I purchase much of my beef from relatives that raise cows and do not use additives and feed well fertilized grass. Compared to chemically supplemented feeds for cows, did that have an effect on the meat.
There are likely a lot of variables that are not accounted for in any of those studies. Work and living environments, daily activity as compared to western culture, etc.
I think all the information we can get is valuable, but without complete controls on all of the variables there can no be definitive conclusions.0 -
Full disclosure: I didn't read your whole post, as it is rather long.
I don't feel provoked by vegans, however I do get highly annoyed by ANYONE who preaches to me about their way as being the only path. This goes for diet (vegan, paleo, no carb, low carb) or religion and everything in between. People getting all preachy is just plain obnoxious and I have no patience for them online or in real life.
I don't have a label for how I eat. I eat some meat. I eat lots of vegetables and fruit. I try to be a "vegetarian until dinnertime," limiting meat consumption, if at all, to one meal a day. I try to avoid foods made by industrial giants, including freaky fake "meats" and anything made by companies such as ConAgra, Morningstar Farms (aka Kellogs), etc. I am good with what I eat and am happy for anyone else who finds a diet that fits their lifestyle.0 -
I have been doing the same thing since March of this year, and have lost over 80 pounds. I feel better than I have in YEARS. But I understand what you mean about other people. For some reason they sometimes seem to take my dietary choices as some sort of attack on their choices, though I don't talk badly to them about theirs. I live in southeast Texas, and it is not vegan friendly at all! I don't preach to anyone, and the only time I talk about my diet at at is with my close family or if someone else asks me how I have lost weight.0
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I don't think people are provoked by veganism. I think people are provoked by others who say "my diet is the only way."0
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Or "my diet is the only ethical way." Gee, sorry I'm enslaving cows to give me milk instead of enslaving them to till and fertilize my fields like you do, self-righteous vegan person.I don't think people are provoked by veganism. I think people are provoked by others who say "my diet is the only way."0 -
It's because you guys taste bad.0
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Full disclosure: I didn't read your whole post, as it is rather long.
I don't feel provoked by vegans, however I do get highly annoyed by ANYONE who preaches to me about their way as being the only path. This goes for diet (vegan, paleo, no carb, low carb) or religion and everything in between. People getting all preachy is just plain obnoxious and I have no patience for them online or in real life.
I don't have a label for how I eat. I eat some meat. I eat lots of vegetables and fruit. I try to be a "vegetarian until dinnertime," limiting meat consumption, if at all, to one meal a day. I try to avoid foods made by industrial giants, including freaky fake "meats" and anything made by companies such as ConAgra, Morningstar Farms (aka Kellogs), etc. I am good with what I eat and am happy for anyone else who finds a diet that fits their lifestyle.
Pretty much this. I tend to avoid starches and try to stick to 100-150g of carbs and this has made me feel great and lose a lot of weight. However, I realize this is not possible for everyone and would never say my way is the only correct way to lose weight. I know many people who look AMAZING and eat 200+g carbs a day and I don't think they are "wrong".0 -
So many words, so I didn't read anything but the title. Just wanted to comment so my very aggressive, provocative friend VoV could reply!0
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I love vegan food.
I also love meat.
I love all foods equally.
If vegans didn't exist I wouldn't be able to eat their yummy foods...0 -
I don't think it's people are provoked by vegans in general. I think it's like anyone else preaching their decisions as if we all have to agree with their choices. It's no different than bible thumpers shoving beliefs down your throat, Athiests shoving their non-belief beliefs (wow reads funny) down your throat, etc. While it's not every vegan, bible thumper, or Athiest, it's just a handful who act that way and people just get annoyed. In reality, most don't care and don't act out like that. But like any group, you have SOMEONE who is extreme and annoying about what they believe in.0
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It's like religion
No one cares if a person is vegan or not, just quit cramming the lifestyle down other's throats.0 -
I didn't read this. FYI last time this was asked it was immediately locked. I'm a vegetarian, so I have respect for vegans. Just don't start telling me how bad dairy is. I love my eggs.0
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Full disclosure: I didn't read your whole post, as it is rather long.
I don't feel provoked by vegans, however I do get highly annoyed by ANYONE who preaches to me about their way as being the only path. This goes for diet (vegan, paleo, no carb, low carb) or religion and everything in between. People getting all preachy is just plain obnoxious and I have no patience for them online or in real life.
I don't have a label for how I eat. I eat some meat. I eat lots of vegetables and fruit. I try to be a "vegetarian until dinnertime," limiting meat consumption, if at all, to one meal a day. I try to avoid foods made by industrial giants, including freaky fake "meats" and anything made by companies such as ConAgra, Morningstar Farms (aka Kellogs), etc. I am good with what I eat and am happy for anyone else who finds a diet that fits their lifestyle.0 -
Homer voice "mmmmmmmmmmmm.. STEEEEEEAAAAAK!0
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Well Stated!0
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I don't think it's people are provoked by vegans in general. I think it's like anyone else preaching their decisions as if we all have to agree with their choices. It's no different than bible thumpers shoving beliefs down your throat, Athiests shoving their non-belief beliefs (wow reads funny) down your throat, etc. While it's not every vegan, bible thumper, or Athiest, it's just a handful who act that way and people just get annoyed. In reality, most don't care and don't act out like that. But like any group, you have SOMEONE who is extreme and annoying about what they believe in.
But the difference is someone wouldn't post "I'M BURNING A BIBLE RIGHT NOW!" on a Christian thread. Why do people feel the need to post "YUM! I WANT STEAK! THOSE COWS DESERVED IT!" on a vegan thread? That happened yesterday after someone posted the results of a study. I don't comment on threads with meat in the title, so non-vegans should do the same if they only intend to upset the others.0 -
I don't think it's people are provoked by vegans in general. I think it's like anyone else preaching their decisions as if we all have to agree with their choices. It's no different than bible thumpers shoving beliefs down your throat, Athiests shoving their non-belief beliefs (wow reads funny) down your throat, etc. While it's not every vegan, bible thumper, or Athiest, it's just a handful who act that way and people just get annoyed. In reality, most don't care and don't act out like that. But like any group, you have SOMEONE who is extreme and annoying about what they believe in.
But the difference is someone wouldn't post "I'M BURNING A BIBLE RIGHT NOW!" on a Christian thread. Why do people feel the need to post "YUM! I WANT STEAK! THOSE COWS DESERVED IT!" on a vegan thread? That happened yesterday after someone posted the results of a study. I don't comment on threads with meat in the title, so non-vegans should do they same if they only intend to upset the others.
Really? On the internet you don't think people would post that on a Christian thread? I beg to differ. Are you new to the internet and forums?0 -
Or "my diet is the only ethical way." Gee, sorry I'm enslaving cows to give me milk instead of enslaving them to till and fertilize my fields like you do, self-righteous vegan person.I don't think people are provoked by veganism. I think people are provoked by others who say "my diet is the only way."
^^^^ This0 -
Or "my diet is the only ethical way." Gee, sorry I'm enslaving cows to give me milk instead of enslaving them to till and fertilize my fields like you do, self-righteous vegan person.I don't think people are provoked by veganism. I think people are provoked by others who say "my diet is the only way."
LOL! "enslaving them to till and fertilize" made me almost choke on my Nut Roll.0
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