Why do people get so provoked by vegans?
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Just read this article from NPR and thought it would be worth the read:
http://www.npr.org/blogs/13.7/2012/08/30/160117028/do-vegetarians-and-vegans-think-they-are-better-than-everyone-else?utm_source=NPR&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=20120830
This is a tough question, and I think they are giving politically correct answers. I don't think the answer is so easy,
I believe the vegetarian ethic is a superior ethic. Does that mean that I think vegetarians are superior to non-vegetarians? I don't think I can honestly answer that. When I was single, I didn't date non-vegetarians. Back then internet dating sites did not exist, in fact the internet did not exist, in fact computers barely existed. I met my wife through a personal ad on Vegetarian Times. I try to avoid parties with meat eaters, and watching people eat meat disgusts me. I never go out to lunch with a client, unless I know he is vegetarian. So is that the behavior of someone who feels superior? Maybe.
On the other hand, those of you who have strong religious beliefs. Do you date people of different religions? Would you marry one? Do you feel superior to everyone else?0 -
it's just about the preaching and being a chef it makes it no fun when someone tweaks an item on the menu when you are busy0
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Unlike other threads I have been on pertaining to this subject, I think there was a lot of respectful and useful discourse. I even made a few friends from it, and not all vegans either. I think there is merit in trying to understand each other, and get past stereotypes and judgments.
I think we just see things differently, yet I think most people actively try to live with integrity and honor. Naturally, each individual will define that uniquely for him/herself.
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Thank You for this comment.
The way I see it is like this...........
Vegetarians, vegans, Paleo and clean eaters all share a lot in common (provided they are eating natural foods).
If we want to change the way food is raised and grown, like getting rid of mono-crops and factory farming, then we NEED to work together using our commonalities.
If we are fighting one another, nothing will change.
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Both of these ^^0 -
I am curious as to how many people posting here actually have met a vegan they didn't like and aren't just hating a stereotype when they've never met a vegan or only met. Like two or three.
No, they truly hate me.0 -
I wish everyone would just let others live their lives their own way.
And never learn anything from anyone else and have to discover every little thing on their own? Despite the occasional hard feelings and disagreements, I think I'll keep the system we currently have.
No. Being interested in how others live and learning about it without judging is excellent. Trying to make everyone live the same way as you (not you, personally) is where it goes wrong.
Yeah, but what do we do if their "own way" is to be preachy and judgmental?
If everyone lets others live their own way, then it follows that no one would be preachy and judgemental.
I don't see in the 13+ pages where anyone is restricting anyone from living their own way. However, there seems to be quite a bit of preachiness and judgmentalness (two words I'm going to just make up as if they actually exist).
When people say things like, "I wish everyone would just let others live their lives their own way" on MFP, what I think they are saying is that they wish everyone would just not be preachy and judgmental. However, some people by their very nature *are* preachy and judgmental. To say that they should not be seems to me to be as potentially offensive as their original preachiness and judgmentalness is to others.
Preachiness and judgmentalism is in the eye of the beholder. What is preachy to one person can be considered a statement of pure truth to another. I like to quote studies whereby I think I avoid the "preachy" aspect, because science can rarely if ever be considered preachy. However, many, particularly those who have what I call "magical thinking" and do not believe that science applies to them, or has some cokamamy reason for not believing the studies will surely disagree. Some people just don't like to hear things that do not validate their own lifestyle. Well, tough.0 -
Let's be clear on this, eat what you want to eat. Most of the world does not care what you choose for yourself. Do not evangelize your choices and everything will be fine.
Oh, and one other thing for everyone, remember to thoroughly wash your food before eating.
Okay, here comes the low life!0 -
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That is why I try to urge people to buy local, instead of the big box or chain markets.
The Farm to Table movement needs to come back.
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I didn't realize it had gone away. It's a very big movement up here in the bay area. Beyond organics, free range, local..Pasture raised (different than free range in that animals actually graze in pastures rather than have access to a field through a tiny hole in a cooped up building), seed bio-diversity, backyard gardening, foraging movement etc etc are all thriving. It's sad to me that this isn't the case everywhere. Everyone should have access to nutritious, wholesome,local, organic, heirloom food.0 -
I AM bothered by Vegans that do it for idealistic reasons. I believe that eating animals is the way of the planet. It's what is meant to happen. Also plants are just as much alive as animals and have just as much right to live. By idealistic vegan thinking fruits are ok, they are meant to be eaten. But roots should be banned as that kills the plant!
I am an omnivore.
I wonder if you would think that if a race of superbeings came here from another planet and decided to eat us.
As for humans being herbivores here is a bit about the Editor of the the American Journal of Cardiology:
William C. Roberts MD has five decades of experience in the field of cardiology, written over 1300 scientific publications, a dozen cardiology textbooks, and has been editor in chief of the American Journal of Cardiology for a quarter of a century. He is arguably the most highly regarded cardiologist in the world today.
In his 2008 editorial "The Cause of Atherosclerosis", published in the peer reviewed journal Nutrition in Clinical Practice, Roberts states that there is a single, sole cause to heart disease: cholesterol. If your total cholesterol is below 150 and LDL is below 70, you are essentially heart attack proof. What is the cause of high cholesterol? Saturated fat and animal products:
Atherosclerosis is easily produced in nonhuman
herbivores (eg, rabbits, monkeys) by feeding them
a high cholesterol (eg, egg yolks) or high saturated
fat (eg, animal fat) diet… And atherosclerosis was not produced in a
minority of rats fed these diets, it was produced in
100% of the animals! Indeed, atherosclerosis is one
of the easiest diseases to produce experimentally,
but the experimental animal must be an herbivore.
It is not possible to produce atherosclerosis in a
carnivore…"
He elaborates in an earlier editorial:
It is virtually impossible, for example, to produce atherosclerosis in a dog even when 100 grams of cholesterol and 120 grams of butter fat are added to its meat ration. (This amount of cholesterol
is approximately 200 times the average amount that human beings in the USA
eat each day!). (The American Journal of Cardiology, 1990, vol. 66,896.)
He then utterly annihilates the human omnivore myth in a single sentence. here it is:
***Because humans get atherosclerosis, and atherosclerosis
is a disease only of herbivores, humans also must be
herbivores.***
At once the insanity of our times comes into razor sharp relief.
Some may debate whether cholesterol is the sole cause of heart disease. It does not matter, the fact remains that atherosclerosis occurs only in herbivores.
If humans were physiological omnivores, heart disease would not exist, let alone be America's #1 killer for over a hundred years.
It may not be the least bit hyperbolic to say that the existence of heart disease in humans is proof that we, as a species, are vegans.
In any case, a low fat vegan diet has been proven again and again to be the cure for heart disease. A mountain of clinical evidence supports this.
According to Roberts, those who are utterly immune to heart disease without the use of statin drugs are pure vegetarian fruit eaters. His own exact words. fruit eaters.
HUMANS ARE HERBIVORES
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2011-02/acs-veh020111.php
Okay, humans used to get their B12 from bacteria that lived around roots. You only need trace amounts of B12 and eating "dirty" vegetables was how humans obtain this for millennia. The article is unfortunately in Chinese, so I for one, could not really examine what was said and done there. The article is also only saying that vegans who do not get enough B12 and Omega 3 are at an elevated heart risk compared to other vegetarians. Or at least that is what it seems to be saying. Both B12 and Omega 3 can be obtained from Vegan sources and supplements are easy to obtain. Unlike the idiot who wrote the article for Eurikaalert, you do NOT have to eat fish.0 -
Because lillith tells us to eat meat.0
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it's just about the preaching and being a chef it makes it no fun when someone tweaks an item on the menu when you are busy
I guess this is the reason I mainly go to ethnic restaurants with naturally vegan items on the menu. I always sense I'm being a pain in traditional restaurants, and this confirms it.0 -
Because lillith tells us to eat meat.
LOL!!! I just watched the season finale of True Blood last night. Haaaa wasn't expecting to see that in a vegan post.0 -
How does the cow get all the way up in the tree? I'm a frugivore, because that's the natural human diet, and most of my food comes from way up high in a tree. Cow's don't have wings or opposable thumbs, so they don't crap on my food.Oh, and one other thing for everyone, remember to thoroughly wash your food before eating.
Why do non-vegans assume that grass is even on the menu? (I've seen people drink wheatgrass shots before, but that's not a major component of anyone's diet.)0 -
Full disclosure: I didn't read your whole post, as it is rather long.
I don't feel provoked by vegans, however I do get highly annoyed by ANYONE who preaches to me about their way as being the only path. This goes for diet (vegan, paleo, no carb, low carb) or religion and everything in between. People getting all preachy is just plain obnoxious and I have no patience for them online or in real life.
I don't have a label for how I eat. I eat some meat. I eat lots of vegetables and fruit. I try to be a "vegetarian until dinnertime," limiting meat consumption, if at all, to one meal a day. I try to avoid foods made by industrial giants, including freaky fake "meats" and anything made by companies such as ConAgra, Morningstar Farms (aka Kellogs), etc. I am good with what I eat and am happy for anyone else who finds a diet that fits their lifestyle.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What she said.0 -
Is sourdough vegan? Yeast is a living organism...until you kill it in the oven...0
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I don't think it's people are provoked by vegans in general. I think it's like anyone else preaching their decisions as if we all have to agree with their choices. It's no different than bible thumpers shoving beliefs down your throat, Athiests shoving their non-belief beliefs (wow reads funny) down your throat, etc. While it's not every vegan, bible thumper, or Athiest, it's just a handful who act that way and people just get annoyed. In reality, most don't care and don't act out like that. But like any group, you have SOMEONE who is extreme and annoying about what they believe in.
Agree 100%0 -
There are good arguments that humans are natural frugivores, but that doesn't mean we should only eat fruit. Our closest DNA relative, the chimpanzee, eats 48% fruit....preferentially. But they also eat leaves, nuts, twigs, soil, insects, etc.... and meat....yes meat. The seem to favor small mamals and some smaller monkeys in particular.
I'm all for eating more fruit and vegetables, but I will not condemn meat as evil. I'll accept that many of us probably eat too much meat though. Oddly, every vegetarian I have known has at one time admitted that they craved meat from time to time.0 -
There are good arguments that humans are natural frugivores, but that doesn't mean we should only eat fruit. Our closest DNA relative, the chimpanzee, eats 48% fruit....preferentially. But they also eat leaves, nuts, twigs, soil, insects, etc.... and meat....yes meat. The seem to favor small mamals and some smaller monkeys in particular.
I'm all for eating more fruit and vegetables, but I will not condemn meat as evil. I'll accept that many of us probably eat too much meat though. Oddly, every vegetarian I have known has at one time admitted that they craved meat from time to time.
I've been vegetarian for almost 40 years, and I don't crave meat at all. I think what many people crave when they give up meat is that 5th taste--umami. Many vegetarian foods can give you that taste, but many recent vegetarians may not know that yet. It's pretty daunting to give up meat, see that blank place on your plate, and not know where to put there.
Edit: Adding a link: http://www.theveganrd.com/2012/04/is-umami-a-secret-ingredient-of-vegan-activism.html0 -
I fully agree.There are good arguments that humans are natural frugivores, but that doesn't mean we should only eat fruit. Our closest DNA relative, the chimpanzee, eats 48% fruit....preferentially. But they also eat leaves, nuts, twigs, soil, insects, etc.... and meat....yes meat. The seem to favor small mamals and some smaller monkeys in particular.
I'm all for eating more fruit and vegetables, but I will not condemn meat as evil. I'll accept that many of us probably eat too much meat though. Oddly, every vegetarian I have known has at one time admitted that they craved meat from time to time.0 -
I fully agree.There are good arguments that humans are natural frugivores, but that doesn't mean we should only eat fruit. Our closest DNA relative, the chimpanzee, eats 48% fruit....preferentially. But they also eat leaves, nuts, twigs, soil, insects, etc.... and meat....yes meat. The seem to favor small mamals and some smaller monkeys in particular.
I'm all for eating more fruit and vegetables, but I will not condemn meat as evil. I'll accept that many of us probably eat too much meat though. Oddly, every vegetarian I have known has at one time admitted that they craved meat from time to time.
Yes your earlier post is a good reminder to me that fruits are a good thing and should have a greater role in my diet. I had my banana this morning with my Uncle Sam cereal (I consider that the twigs part of the diet). I have an orange here at work with my name on it for later. Maybe have some blue berries or something later. I'm definitely going to experiment with increasing my fruit.
Either way, I don't care what others eat, so GO VEGANS! You do not provoke me in the least. In fact, you seem to know alot of great recipes for vegetable dishes, so I often use your recipes. They go nicely alongside a small serving of wild salmon.0 -
people are stupid. That's why everyone does anything
btw I eat meat, love it, but it doesn't bother me a bit that someone else doesn't. I only really care if I'm cooking for you :laugh:0 -
In reference to the post about vegans not tasting good. Thank you for that. The thread needed the humor and I laughed out loud.
To be serious for a moment, I have friends that are vegan and they don't seem to care that others are not. HOWEVER, I had this comment made to me years ago while eating a hamburger and the comment was delivered with a sneer: "I, personally, don't eat anything that has a face." I, personally, don't remember asking them what their food preferences were. That's just rude and that's the problem with anybody that is over-the-top about their lifestyle choices, whether it be food or whatever. It only takes a few to ruin it for the whole group.0 -
I don't think it is because vegans try to preach their ideas. Simply mentioning that you are eating vegan/vegetarian tends to incite people. I am not currently vegan but have tried that diet off and on. I noticed that by my simply choosing not to eat meat, this brings on the questions and very often criticism. And all that before I even have a chance to share my thoughts about it.0
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I think some people confuse someone saying they are vegan and preaching about it. Sure some do, but someone of you just say you are vegan or vegetarian it sets something off in people.0
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Simply saying you're a vegetarian means nothing to me,
unless I'm cooking. Then I'll let you know what's for dinner,
and you can decide what you can, or can't eat.
Last night if my mother in law was over, she whould have
ate the lentils, rice, and some salad. Simple enough...0 -
If one were to contemplate the topic of veganism seriously, it is a viewpoint/lifestyle that is intuitively more insightful, conscientious, sensitive and humane than the general norm in regards to food sources and consideration of animals. Thus, some vegans, not all, would lean towards being smug, condescending towards the general populace. Just seems like human nature, and I wouldn't necessarily blame them. Though I'm an omnivore, I too would want to distance myself from unintelligible meat lovers who contribute such juvenile postings like "mmmm, i feel like having steak now", "i didn't climb to the top of the food chain" blah blah blah in a vegan thread.
I do really wonder if the general disdain for vegans is so much the contempt of the "preachy" or smug examples or do we (non-vegans) make such examples an easy scapegoat for not wanting to go through the trouble of contemplating and challenging our current norms? Those who are introspective of their food choices and the treatment of animals and continue to be an omnivore are not one bit provoked by vegans and are rather respectful of their choice. I personally view it as being overwhelmingly impractical to be a strict vegan in every facet of one's life and thus seemingly nonsensical in the real world despite it (veganism) being empirically more insightful.0 -
If one were to contemplate the topic of veganism seriously, it is a viewpoint/lifestyle that is intuitively more insightful, conscientious, sensitive and humane than the general norm in regards to food sources and consideration of animals. Thus, some vegans, not all, would lean towards being smug, condescending towards the general populace. Just seems like human nature, and I wouldn't necessarily blame them. Though I'm an omnivore, I too would want to distance myself from unintelligible meat lovers who contribute such juvenile postings like "mmmm, i feel like having steak now", "i didn't climb to the top of the food chain" blah blah blah in a vegan thread.
I do really wonder if the general disdain for vegans is so much the contempt of the "preachy" or smug examples or do we (non-vegans) make such examples an easy scapegoat for not wanting to go through the trouble of contemplating and challenging our current norms? Those who are introspective of their food choices and the treatment of animals and continue to be an omnivore are not one bit provoked by vegans and are rather respectful of their choice. I personally view it as being overwhelmingly impractical to be a strict vegan in every facet of one's life and thus seemingly nonsensical in the real world despite it (veganism) being empirically more insightful.
Overall a good post. I am a vegan for ethical reasons, as most vegans are, and as I have said, I doubt there is any question about it being the superior ethical choice. Even non-vegetarians acknowledge that.
Preachiness, though is in the eye of the beholder. Vegans have science on their side, just as those who accept evolution do. It is far more likely that evolutionary theory explains what we are today, than the theory that "God put dinosaur bones here to test our faith." This is so similar to the meat eaters' arguments: "all these studies are correlation studies, and correlation does not equal causation," or "my family lived to be ripe old ages, and they all ate meat," or "God put the animals here for us to eat." The "food creationists" come up with many arguments, but none of them good, none of them scientific. The "food scientists" have thousands of scientific studies going back to the 1940s (Framingham Study) on our side. The food creationists have "magical thinking" and "cognitive dissonance" to protect them.
As I pointed out earlier a vegetarian messaged me during an argument, possibly on this thread, and said,"what do you care what those idiots eat. Let them eat meat and die of cancer or heart disease. That is Darwinism. Survival of the fittest." He was probably right. But there are lots of reasons I still argue. Mostly, the way animals are treated makes me sick. And also, I get enough positive messages to know that some people actually hear rational arguments, although you wouldn't know that by reading these threads alone,.0 -
They didn't mention that they were vegan, and so people cooked to the general community standard, which isn't vegan.
Then, too, they didn't do what the lactose intolerant and the fructose intolerant person did, which was to bring something they knew they could eat, plus enough to share with the group. I daresay everyone would have been down with a nice big vegan casserole or stew of some sort. They said, "Oh, we'll bring the plastic plates and cups," and then *****ed and moaned that there was nothing there they could eat.0
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