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Ageism
Replies
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At Rosa's time, "african americans sit in the back of the bus" was the norm of society. It was one that needed to change, but it was the norm. I'm not saying they're equivalent, but the logic does hold up...0
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calling them boys doesnt bug me so much, but i do understand the concern of others about things like this. i know people will call equality on it, it is what we do best. but it isn't equal in any way at all. the kid refusing to pledge allegience was not being treated equally either, even if his idea wasn't considered smart (even though it was in my opinion) they should still let him do whatever the **** he wanted to do. he was harming no one, just as these younger customers were not bothering anyone. they were bothering the woman behind the counter, because of their age! (i know this is conclusive on my part, but i can only dissect it so much, i must conclude my point!)
Sweety, this makes you sounds ageist against the woman. You are judging this woman and her actions by her age and the fact that she was older than them. If she had been the same age and asked them to stop, there wouldn't be a problem here. Your problem is that an older person asked someone younger to stop something. Maybe you should look into your own prejuidices before you start judging other people.
it's not that, you guys arre pulling this apart without little to say about ageism at all. if another youth walked up to them and said "how inappropriate, don't do this in a restaurant", i think it would have been ageist just as well
If you subtract the age factor, how is asking someone who is doing something you feel is disruptive to stop ageist?? It doesn't fit the nice little definition of ageism that you provided to us earlier. This isn't even discrimination in such a simple request.
THIS.0 -
At Rosa's time, "african americans sit in the back of the bus" was the norm of society. It was one that needed to change, but it was the norm. I'm not saying they're equivalent, but the logic does hold up...
Pondering this comparison..... Rosa Parks was black and due to societal norms then should have given up her seat to a white person.
The kids playing quarter, because they were young, should have stopped playing quarters because....... an older adult..... didn't want to hear the noise/ see them playing/ whatever reason??0 -
calling them boys doesnt bug me so much, but i do understand the concern of others about things like this. i know people will call equality on it, it is what we do best. but it isn't equal in any way at all. the kid refusing to pledge allegience was not being treated equally either, even if his idea wasn't considered smart (even though it was in my opinion) they should still let him do whatever the **** he wanted to do. he was harming no one, just as these younger customers were not bothering anyone. they were bothering the woman behind the counter, because of their age! (i know this is conclusive on my part, but i can only dissect it so much, i must conclude my point!)
Sweety, this makes you sounds ageist against the woman. You are judging this woman and her actions by her age and the fact that she was older than them. If she had been the same age and asked them to stop, there wouldn't be a problem here. Your problem is that an older person asked someone younger to stop something. Maybe you should look into your own prejuidices before you start judging other people.
it's not that, you guys arre pulling this apart without little to say about ageism at all. if another youth walked up to them and said "how inappropriate, don't do this in a restaurant", i think it would have been ageist just as well
There is little to say about the ageism of the example you provided because it is not a good example of ageism. And if a person of the same age had asked then NO thats not ageist. To be ageist there must be some element of age discrimination. Are you implying that a person of the same age requesting another to act respectfully in public is ageist against thier own age?0 -
BTW, I feel like I'm back in college in my sociology classes :bigsmile: :bigsmile: :bigsmile: I love it!! Debate without anger or name calling. I love it!!0
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calling them boys doesnt bug me so much, but i do understand the concern of others about things like this. i know people will call equality on it, it is what we do best. but it isn't equal in any way at all. the kid refusing to pledge allegience was not being treated equally either, even if his idea wasn't considered smart (even though it was in my opinion) they should still let him do whatever the **** he wanted to do. he was harming no one, just as these younger customers were not bothering anyone. they were bothering the woman behind the counter, because of their age! (i know this is conclusive on my part, but i can only dissect it so much, i must conclude my point!)
Sweety, this makes you sounds ageist against the woman. You are judging this woman and her actions by her age and the fact that she was older than them. If she had been the same age and asked them to stop, there wouldn't be a problem here. Your problem is that an older person asked someone younger to stop something. Maybe you should look into your own prejuidices before you start judging other people.
it's not that, you guys arre pulling this apart without little to say about ageism at all. if another youth walked up to them and said "how inappropriate, don't do this in a restaurant", i think it would have been ageist just as well
There is little to say about the ageism of the example you provided because it is not a good example of ageism. And if a person of the same age had asked then NO thats not ageist. To be ageist there must be some element of age discrimination. Are you implying that a person of the same age requesting another to act respectfully in public is ageist against thier own age?
ALTHOUGH!!!! I must say that one person within a group who dislikes/disassociates with that group can discriminate against others in groups. The example in my mind is that one black person can discriminate against another black person, but not for being black but because one feels superior to another (i.e. an educated black male discriminating against a labeled "ghetto" black male). But then it isn't racial discrimination.... it would be more of a class discrimination, an educational discrimination type situation.
But agreed -- discrimination is based on the assumption one party has power over the other and exploits/abuses the party without power.0 -
It's early. Somebody will call somebody a nazi soon, Godwin sez...BTW, I feel like I'm back in college in my sociology classes :bigsmile: :bigsmile: :bigsmile: I love it!! Debate without anger or name calling. I love it!!0 -
BTW, I feel like I'm back in college in my sociology classes :bigsmile: :bigsmile: :bigsmile: I love it!! Debate without anger or name calling. I love it!!
I must be slipping.
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It's early. Somebody will call somebody a nazi soon, Godwin sez...BTW, I feel like I'm back in college in my sociology classes :bigsmile: :bigsmile: :bigsmile: I love it!! Debate without anger or name calling. I love it!!
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
:lurk:0 -
At Rosa's time, "african americans sit in the back of the bus" was the norm of society. It was one that needed to change, but it was the norm. I'm not saying they're equivalent, but the logic does hold up...
Let me reword that.
In Rosa's time, it was the norm for blacks to sit in the back of the bus. That was based on racial discrimination. Yes it was wrong. I don't see how that compares to teenagers wanting to play quarter bounce in a public restaurant. The basis of Rosa's stance was for a purpose that affected an entire race of people.
We have dissected this teens in Tim Hortons situation and it is clear that there was no specific age discrimination. It is easy to argue that quarter bounce in a restaurant is inappropriate. The game can get noisey, a quarter could hit someone...
Comparing that to a women who made such a contribution to our society is disrespectful. It is not neccessary to play games in restaurants, but human rights are necessary. Thats like comparing a stand against the food industry to petitioning for a new flavor of fruit roll ups.
If these teens were told that they may NEVER play quarters anywhere, anytime, then I can see the deal. But they were just asked not to play in one area.0 -
Ageism exists in all regards and at all ages. We live in a world of everything-ism. We don't live in a respectful society, in general, so it's made a lot of us bitter toward a lot of things- young people, old people, stupid people, dull people, reactionary people, weak people, sick people, fast drivers, slow drivers, pedestrians, bikers-- even people exactly like us. We want what we want, we know what we know, and for the most part, anyone who challenges that is wrong in one way or another. If we react by saying, "you're too young to understand", while it may be true, it's moreso our way of saying, "shut up and listen to me because I'm right". It's a rare person who will open mindedly listen and hear what a person is saying when it goes against what they fundamentally believe or have concluded, so they'll react on whatever grounds they see they can- age, education, life experience, financial status, etc.
In the case of the boys playing quarters, she wanted them to stop, so she took the "I'm older, so I know better" approach. In truth, it was probably no more annoying than the obnoxiously loud conversations you hear in coffee shops.0 -
That's it,,, Brenda for President. Thank you dear.
(Love the pic BTW).0 -
BTW, I feel like I'm back in college in my sociology classes :bigsmile: :bigsmile: :bigsmile: I love it!! Debate without anger or name calling. I love it!! But I did hit the spacebar kinda hard a time or two. lol:laugh: 0
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That's it,,, Brenda for President. Thank you dear.
(Love the pic BTW).
Here here!! That was WELL PUT Brenda!
And I too love the new av!!! Hubba Hubba!0 -
BTW, I feel like I'm back in college in my sociology classes :bigsmile: :bigsmile: :bigsmile: I love it!! Debate without anger or name calling. I love it!! But I did hit the spacebar kinda hard a time or two. lol:laugh:
I didn't say it wasn't a LIVELY debate! :laugh: 0 -
BTW, I feel like I'm back in college in my sociology classes :bigsmile: :bigsmile: :bigsmile: I love it!! Debate without anger or name calling. I love it!!
I must be slipping.
Marla, the problem you and I have is that we tend to agree too often. Tends to make us not call each other too many names, you pretentious..... (uh, thinking of another word I can stick here)....... CONSERVATIVE!!!!!
:laugh: :laugh:0 -
Them's fightin' words. :devil:0
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That's it,,, Brenda for President. Thank you dear.
(Love the pic BTW).
Merci.
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I haven't had a good debate in a while. I kind of needed this. I'm writing and argumentitive paper on the commercialization of food and was losing interest.0
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I haven't had a good debate in a while. I kind of needed this. I'm writing and argumentitive paper on the commercialization of food and was losing interest.
That must be quite an interesting paper to write though, considering the commercialization of food has been one of the biggest contributers to the downfall of society...right up there with television and the internet. :P0 -
I haven't had a good debate in a while. I kind of needed this. I'm writing and argumentitive paper on the commercialization of food and was losing interest.
That must be quite an interesting paper to write though, considering the commercialization of food has been one of the biggest contributers to the downfall of society...right up there with television and the internet. :P
It is interesting. Its also hard to keep an appetite wilst researching these things. Thats why I need to break from it often.0 -
i wish i didn't disappear earlier, my pc was lagging! someone said this
"The example in my mind is that one black person can discriminate against another black person, but not for being black but because one feels superior to another (i.e. an educated black male discriminating against a labeled "ghetto" black male). But then it isn't racial discrimination.... it would be more of a class discrimination, an educational discrimination type situation. "
in regards to the idea that someone else said you can't be ageist towards the same age group. you so can.
my example is a little more extreme in that, if a black person calls another black person a ******...it is racist. chris rock has great examples of this. they will see "racism don't exist" "how can we be racist towards other black people" it is the perpetuation of a stereotype and taking that group, your group even, and forcing it to continue existing in a certain role.
thus, a teenager telling another teenager to not play quarters in a coffee shop on the reason that "this is not appropriate restaurant behavior", is a little ageist, if you can't see that, that is fine. it isn't the most extreme example, i provided others but they weren't debated to the end of time because people, hopefully, could see that. ageism occurs allllll the time. same with all the other isms.
btw, nice brenda, very nicely put.
and my example did fit the definition. and btw. definitions on dictionary.com are usually so much broader. there are bodies of research on 'isms', you can't really deconstruct it to a single sentence.
as well, i do see ageism as a form of oppressio:
op⋅pres⋅sion
/əˈprɛʃən/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [uh-presh-uhn] Show IPA
Use oppression in a Sentence
See web results for oppression
See images of oppression
–noun
1. the exercise of authority or power in a burdensome, cruel, or unjust manner.
2. an act or instance of oppressing.
3. the state of being oppressed.
4. the feeling of being heavily burdened, mentally or physically, by troubles, adverse conditions, anxiety, etc.
putting someone into a category and ensuring that they stay there is oppressive in all manners.
and my rosa parks statement was heavily apt.
my conversation feels disjointed now since i left. bah!0 -
I haven't had a good debate in a while. I kind of needed this. I'm writing and argumentitive paper on the commercialization of food and was losing interest.
That must be quite an interesting paper to write though, considering the commercialization of food has been one of the biggest contributers to the downfall of society...right up there with television and the internet. :P
It is interesting. Its also hard to keep an appetite wilst researching these things. Thats why I need to break from it often.
that does sound interesting. i hope you remember to take an intersectional approach!
and one word: capitalism
that is all. 0 -
This topic is over for me. I am disgusted at the use of the N word. Seriously. Wanna talk about immature. Ageisms. To have any debate at all you must consider who you are talking to. Educate youself on appropriate forum language. And I'm not correcting you because you are younger than me. Its because you clearly overstepped a boundry!0
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This topic is over for me. I am disgusted at the use of the N word. Seriously. Wanna talk about immature. Ageisms. To have any debate at all you must consider who you are talking to. Educate youself on appropriate forum language. And I'm not correcting you because you are younger than me. Its because you clearly overstepped a boundry!
i do not condone whatsoever using inappropriate language, such as ******, but it is a reality, open your eyes, people are racist, and while i concur that it is a more severe form of oppression, it is still oppresion. how can you even state that there is a boundary when I was discussing semantics.
Educate yourself on reality. It extends and seeps into every crevice of our life, forums are not exempt, and I think it is more than appropriate to bring it to the surface instead of pretending that it doesn't exist.0 -
Then don't use the language. My eyes are open sweetie. I live in Detroit. My heart goes out to you, I know where I come from your semantics would be argued differently. As in, you would have not had the oppurtunity to respond after someone corrected you using that word.
I am educated. I know that there is a difference between avoiding a topic and being blatently disrespectful. And this wasn't even the original topic. You took it way too far. You have no idea who is reading this. You have no idea how that word can hurt someone. There are forum rules. Have you read them? These are forums about health diet and fitness. We all have oppurtunities to bring up other topics, but if you want to go to this level, then MFP is not the place.
I did not attack you personally by suggesting you educate yourself on the rules. Your response was childish. Educate myself on reality? You have no idea who I am or how educated I am. You judged me. The fact is that you used a term that is openly offensive. I was offended and I have the right to tell you that without you barking back sarcastically and insulting my intelligence. I know reality. I've seen people beat to a bloody pulp for the use of that word. That is reality.
Again. Consider who you are talking to and who may read what you are saying. You think being called a girl is offensive....whoa, you have no idea what oppression really is.
And thats that. I reported this as offensive. Because that is what it is. It works both ways my friend.0 -
Then don't use the language. My eyes are open sweetie. I live in Detroit. My heart goes out to you, I know where I come from your semantics would be argued differently. As in, you would have not had the oppurtunity to respond after someone corrected you using that word.
I am educated. I know that there is a difference between avoiding a topic and being blatently disrespectful. And this wasn't even the original topic. You took it way too far. You have no idea who is reading this. You have no idea how that word can hurt someone. There are forum rules. Have you read them? These are forums about health diet and fitness. We all have oppurtunities to bring up other topics, but if you want to go to this level, then MFP is not the place.
I did not attack you personally by suggesting you educate yourself on the rules. Your response was childish. Educate myself on reality? You have no idea who I am or how educated I am. You judged me. The fact is that you used a term that is openly offensive. I was offended and I have the right to tell you that without you barking back sarcastically and insulting my intelligence. I know reality. I've seen people beat to a bloody pulp for the use of that word. That is reality.
Again. Consider who you are talking to and who may read what you are saying. You think being called a girl is offensive....whoa, you have no idea what oppression really is.
And thats that. I reported this as offensive. Because that is what it is. It works both ways my friend.
my whole point was that people should be able to talk about how oppression exists, and how it exists on a spectrum. and you don't want to talk about it, that is your choice. but avoiding a topic when someone is just trying to shed some light on it...
i think these things should be talked about. do you know how many ppl believe that racism doesnt even exist?0 -
Just a reminder folks, please keep the discussion civil. You can debate the message, but you can't attack the messenger. Attacking or insulting other members is a violation of the site rules and can result in a suspension of your posting privileges or a permanent ban from the site, so please make sure to respect one another at all times.
Also, our forum filters should have picked up the N-word and ***** it out. I will make sure that that happens from now on.
I'm locking this topic to ensure it doesn't continue to deteriorate...0
This discussion has been closed.
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