Ageism

foxyforce

Just to play devil's advocate here, isn't your assumption that she wouldn't have asked you to stop playing quarters an ageist one?

I agree. I don't care who they are or how old they are. I would have asked too. Its not appropriate behaviour in a restaurant.

what is inappropriate exactly? is it that they are playing a game? is it that they are young and playing this game? is it that games are associated with young people? i don't know if you saw my post in the middle somewhere that stated they were quiet as mice, although this isn't necessarily the concern.

It's innappropriate because of the social situation they have placed themselves into.
They are in a public venue, where people are expected to keep reasonable tones and volumes to their actions. By playing quarters, they were being loud, infringing upon the enjoyment of the other patrons of the coffeehouse.
This has nothing to do with their age. Were it a group of loud, rowdy 30-some year old men, or a group of cackling 50-some year old women, talking and laughing obnoxiously loud, something should be said to them.

I don't think it has to do with their age so much as their location.

quiet as mice!!

leavinglasvegas

i would be pissed that he refered to my gender period. if he said "the women" i think i'd have to quit!! but that is just me. i know sexism occurs and it isn't always so easy to do anything about it.

however, people should be able to do something about it, and this goes for youth. are you guys familiar with the kid who is refusing to pledge allegience to flag because of gay rights? are many more people not taking him seriously because of his age than the people who actually understand what he is trying to say? yes. (i worded that awkwardly). his 'authority' figures have been telling him what to do at school when what they say makes no sense. his word is not validated because he is young. it is messed up.

The reason people are not paying attention to that boy is because they don't want to admit that they are wrong. Its about gays rights. That is a risky topic for anyone. I have a friend. 42 years old, male. Nobody listens to his stand for gay rights either. Not about age, its about the topic.

it totally is about age in that specific example. no one would tell your 42 year old friend to stand up and do what he is told! and if they did, it would be very seldom! it is easy to tell a kid they are wrong.

My 42 year old friend is told wht to do. More importantly he is told what he is not allowed to do. When he is at a protest and he is told to leave, he has to because he can be arrested. This kid is protesting. The resist is about his protest. He is actually very inspiring to many people. His family is very supportive of his choice. When it comes to gay rights, the majority do not care who you are, they just don't want to change. I do not see how this has anything to do with ageism.

Marla64

Just to play devil's advocate here, isn't your assumption that she wouldn't have asked you to stop playing quarters an ageist one?

I agree. I don't care who they are or how old they are. I would have asked too. Its not appropriate behaviour in a restaurant.

what is inappropriate exactly? is it that they are playing a game? is it that they are young and playing this game? is it that games are associated with young people? i don't know if you saw my post in the middle somewhere that stated they were quiet as mice, although this isn't necessarily the concern.

It's innappropriate because of the social situation they have placed themselves into.
They are in a public venue, where people are expected to keep reasonable tones and volumes to their actions. By playing quarters, they were being loud, infringing upon the enjoyment of the other patrons of the coffeehouse.
This has nothing to do with their age. Were it a group of loud, rowdy 30-some year old men, or a group of cackling 50-some year old women, talking and laughing obnoxiously loud, something should be said to them.

I don't think it has to do with their age so much as their location.

quiet as mice!!

Yeah, but was the quarter they were banging all over the table and glass quiet, too? Of course not--

Bottom line of this particular issue, age/shmage-- if the proprietor wants them to stop, they stop. Period. "My restaurant. My rules." You say you'd keep playing if you were asked to stop? Then you should be asked to leave.

We have no right to behave as we wish in someone else's establishment.

foxyforce

Just to play devil's advocate here, isn't your assumption that she wouldn't have asked you to stop playing quarters an ageist one?

I agree. I don't care who they are or how old they are. I would have asked too. Its not appropriate behaviour in a restaurant.

what is inappropriate exactly? is it that they are playing a game? is it that they are young and playing this game? is it that games are associated with young people? i don't know if you saw my post in the middle somewhere that stated they were quiet as mice, although this isn't necessarily the concern.

It's innappropriate because of the social situation they have placed themselves into.
They are in a public venue, where people are expected to keep reasonable tones and volumes to their actions. By playing quarters, they were being loud, infringing upon the enjoyment of the other patrons of the coffeehouse.
This has nothing to do with their age. Were it a group of loud, rowdy 30-some year old men, or a group of cackling 50-some year old women, talking and laughing obnoxiously loud, something should be said to them.

I don't think it has to do with their age so much as their location.

I think I'm confused now.
Are you calling ageism because an older woman called younger males "boys"?
Are you saying because an older person asked a younger group of people to stop a loud, obnoxious noise in a public venue, that is ageism?

Is this just an example given, or was this the basis for your original post?

everyone has been adding their own details. it was not the necessary intent for my original post, however, it is an apt example.

i am calling ageism because these young strapping gentlemen who had purchased coffee in a restaurant were asked to stop playing quarters because it wasn't considered appropriate "restaurant behavior". they were quiet as mice,it had nothing to do with a noise level.

i was just ranting about ageism in general.

calling them boys doesnt bug me so much, but i do understand the concern of others about things like this. i know people will call equality on it, it is what we do best. but it isn't equal in any way at all. the kid refusing to pledge allegience was not being treated equally either, even if his idea wasn't considered smart (even though it was in my opinion) they should still let him do whatever the **** he wanted to do. he was harming no one, just as these younger customers were not bothering anyone. they were bothering the woman behind the counter, because of their age! (i know this is conclusive on my part, but i can only dissect it so much, i must conclude my point!)

CasperO

Yes, "Hey guys" would be much better. I can go with "Gentlemen" because I'm an older male, possibly bigger and probably more physically imposing than any of them. I can spare a little unearned respect, I have 16 inch biceps and an honorable discharge, and few youngsters will challenge me.

<<snip>>

I think the sex of the person delivering the statement to the 17 year old males makes all the difference.

I think an older, buff or even an older, larger but still physically intimidating male saying "gentlemen" comes across much different than it would delivered by a female.

Also, I see that as a very high school principal thing to say. :laugh: I mean that in a good way. An older, physically intimidating male calling them "gentlemen" seems (to me) to demand their respect, while acknowledging you will pro-offer your respect, but that you will put up with none of their shenanigans!!

Yes,,, you get it. Thank you.

foxyforce

Just to play devil's advocate here, isn't your assumption that she wouldn't have asked you to stop playing quarters an ageist one?

I agree. I don't care who they are or how old they are. I would have asked too. Its not appropriate behaviour in a restaurant.

what is inappropriate exactly? is it that they are playing a game? is it that they are young and playing this game? is it that games are associated with young people? i don't know if you saw my post in the middle somewhere that stated they were quiet as mice, although this isn't necessarily the concern.

It's innappropriate because of the social situation they have placed themselves into.
They are in a public venue, where people are expected to keep reasonable tones and volumes to their actions. By playing quarters, they were being loud, infringing upon the enjoyment of the other patrons of the coffeehouse.
This has nothing to do with their age. Were it a group of loud, rowdy 30-some year old men, or a group of cackling 50-some year old women, talking and laughing obnoxiously loud, something should be said to them.

I don't think it has to do with their age so much as their location.

quiet as mice!!

Yeah, but was the quarter they were banging all over the table and glass quiet, too? Of course not--

Bottom line of this particular issue, age/shmage-- if the proprietor wants them to stop, they stop. Period. "My restaurant. My rules." You say you'd keep playing if you were asked to stop? Then you should be asked to leave.

We have no right to behave as we wish in someone else's establishment.

think of rosa parks when you say something like this

Phoenix_Rising

Just to play devil's advocate here, isn't your assumption that she wouldn't have asked you to stop playing quarters an ageist one?

I agree. I don't care who they are or how old they are. I would have asked too. Its not appropriate behaviour in a restaurant.

what is inappropriate exactly? is it that they are playing a game? is it that they are young and playing this game? is it that games are associated with young people? i don't know if you saw my post in the middle somewhere that stated they were quiet as mice, although this isn't necessarily the concern.

It's innappropriate because of the social situation they have placed themselves into.
They are in a public venue, where people are expected to keep reasonable tones and volumes to their actions. By playing quarters, they were being loud, infringing upon the enjoyment of the other patrons of the coffeehouse.
This has nothing to do with their age. Were it a group of loud, rowdy 30-some year old men, or a group of cackling 50-some year old women, talking and laughing obnoxiously loud, something should be said to them.

I don't think it has to do with their age so much as their location.

quiet as mice!!

While I want to fire back, saying that you cannot play quarters quietly, I'll take your word for it. Maybe the table top softened the noise, maybe some of the noise was softened by background noise, etc. So cool, it wasn't that they were being so loud.

*Jumping up on my own little soapbox*
I feel that too many times in our lives, we feel that others see us as a 'category' when in fact, they don't.

This woman may have simply been in a horribly pissy mood. (Will the censor hit the word pissy? If so, I'll put 'crummy mood' in its place.) Maybe she had a flat tire on her way to work, got yelled at by her boss, developed a migraine, tore her stocking, and while waiting in line for a coffee to ease her pain --- she saw this group and heard a quarter bounce..... and it simply set her off. Maybe she barked at them to stop, but then even felt a pang of guilt for acting like a witch.

Maybe she does treat younger folks poorly. Or maybe she was just in a terrible mood and lashed out at someone close to her physical person.

I just wish every one could understand that if I hate Bob, it's because I hate Bob and not because he is black. If I can't stand my next door neighbor, it's because she is too loud and wakes up my child at night, not because she is a lesbian. If I yell at the person behind me in the theater, it's because they wouldn't shut up during the movie, not because they are still in the teenage years.

I am an Equal Opportunity Hater. I dislike everyone and everything in some way or another. On the flip, I most assuredly love and adore everyone and every group in some way or another.

*Jumping off soapbox*

leavinglasvegas

Just to play devil's advocate here, isn't your assumption that she wouldn't have asked you to stop playing quarters an ageist one?

I agree. I don't care who they are or how old they are. I would have asked too. Its not appropriate behaviour in a restaurant.

what is inappropriate exactly? is it that they are playing a game? is it that they are young and playing this game? is it that games are associated with young people? i don't know if you saw my post in the middle somewhere that stated they were quiet as mice, although this isn't necessarily the concern.

It's innappropriate because of the social situation they have placed themselves into.
They are in a public venue, where people are expected to keep reasonable tones and volumes to their actions. By playing quarters, they were being loud, infringing upon the enjoyment of the other patrons of the coffeehouse.
This has nothing to do with their age. Were it a group of loud, rowdy 30-some year old men, or a group of cackling 50-some year old women, talking and laughing obnoxiously loud, something should be said to them.

I don't think it has to do with their age so much as their location.

quiet as mice!!

Come on. I've played quarters myself. Its not quiet as mice. There is an appropriate time and play for things. A restaurant is not the place to play quarters. It is where people eat.

Phoenix_Rising

Just to play devil's advocate here, isn't your assumption that she wouldn't have asked you to stop playing quarters an ageist one?

I agree. I don't care who they are or how old they are. I would have asked too. Its not appropriate behaviour in a restaurant.

what is inappropriate exactly? is it that they are playing a game? is it that they are young and playing this game? is it that games are associated with young people? i don't know if you saw my post in the middle somewhere that stated they were quiet as mice, although this isn't necessarily the concern.

It's innappropriate because of the social situation they have placed themselves into.
They are in a public venue, where people are expected to keep reasonable tones and volumes to their actions. By playing quarters, they were being loud, infringing upon the enjoyment of the other patrons of the coffeehouse.
This has nothing to do with their age. Were it a group of loud, rowdy 30-some year old men, or a group of cackling 50-some year old women, talking and laughing obnoxiously loud, something should be said to them.

I don't think it has to do with their age so much as their location.

quiet as mice!!

Yeah, but was the quarter they were banging all over the table and glass quiet, too? Of course not--

Bottom line of this particular issue, age/shmage-- if the proprietor wants them to stop, they stop. Period. "My restaurant. My rules." You say you'd keep playing if you were asked to stop? Then you should be asked to leave.

We have no right to behave as we wish in someone else's establishment.

think of rosa parks when you say something like this

So in that vein of thought, it wasn't their playing quarters that was the issue, it was the fact that they were young?? Even if not playing quarters they would have been discriminated against by this woman?
Because the Rosa Parks argument -- the issue there was she was black, right?

foxyforce

Just to play devil's advocate here, isn't your assumption that she wouldn't have asked you to stop playing quarters an ageist one?

I agree. I don't care who they are or how old they are. I would have asked too. Its not appropriate behaviour in a restaurant.

what is inappropriate exactly? is it that they are playing a game? is it that they are young and playing this game? is it that games are associated with young people? i don't know if you saw my post in the middle somewhere that stated they were quiet as mice, although this isn't necessarily the concern.

It's innappropriate because of the social situation they have placed themselves into.
They are in a public venue, where people are expected to keep reasonable tones and volumes to their actions. By playing quarters, they were being loud, infringing upon the enjoyment of the other patrons of the coffeehouse.
This has nothing to do with their age. Were it a group of loud, rowdy 30-some year old men, or a group of cackling 50-some year old women, talking and laughing obnoxiously loud, something should be said to them.

I don't think it has to do with their age so much as their location.

quiet as mice!!

While I want to fire back, saying that you cannot play quarters quietly, I'll take your word for it. Maybe the table top softened the noise, maybe some of the noise was softened by background noise, etc. So cool, it wasn't that they were being so loud.

*Jumping up on my own little soapbox*
I feel that too many times in our lives, we feel that others see us as a 'category' when in fact, they don't.

This woman may have simply been in a horribly pissy mood. (Will the censor hit the word pissy? If so, I'll put 'crummy mood' in its place.) Maybe she had a flat tire on her way to work, got yelled at by her boss, developed a migraine, tore her stocking, and while waiting in line for a coffee to ease her pain --- she saw this group and heard a quarter bounce..... and it simply set her off. Maybe she barked at them to stop, but then even felt a pang of guilt for acting like a witch.

Maybe she does treat younger folks poorly. Or maybe she was just in a terrible mood and lashed out at someone close to her physical person.

I just wish every one could understand that if I hate Bob, it's because I hate Bob and not because he is black. If I can't stand my next door neighbor, it's because she is too loud and wakes up my child at night, not because she is a lesbian. If I yell at the person behind me in the theater, it's because they wouldn't shut up during the movie, not because they are still in the teenage years.

I am an Equal Opportunity Hater. I dislike everyone and everything in some way or another. On the flip, I most assuredly love and adore everyone and every group in some way or another.

*Jumping off soapbox*

it is just an example right. i am with you that there are extraneous variables that make people act the way they do, like being in a bad mood, or hating that particular youth for a particular reason.

but it is just an example in that ageism does exist, and people often cop out and say they aren't ageist, that women wouuld probably say that, but tim horton's in my area is, and for the sake of the argument, understand they are, and that it is wrong!

CrystalT

calling them boys doesnt bug me so much, but i do understand the concern of others about things like this. i know people will call equality on it, it is what we do best. but it isn't equal in any way at all. the kid refusing to pledge allegience was not being treated equally either, even if his idea wasn't considered smart (even though it was in my opinion) they should still let him do whatever the **** he wanted to do. he was harming no one, just as these younger customers were not bothering anyone. they were bothering the woman behind the counter, because of their age! (i know this is conclusive on my part, but i can only dissect it so much, i must conclude my point!)

Sweety, this makes you sounds ageist against the woman. You are judging this woman and her actions by her age and the fact that she was older than them. If she had been the same age and asked them to stop, there wouldn't be a problem here. Your problem is that an older person asked someone younger to stop something. Maybe you should look into your own prejuidices before you start judging other people.

foxyforce

Just to play devil's advocate here, isn't your assumption that she wouldn't have asked you to stop playing quarters an ageist one?

I agree. I don't care who they are or how old they are. I would have asked too. Its not appropriate behaviour in a restaurant.

what is inappropriate exactly? is it that they are playing a game? is it that they are young and playing this game? is it that games are associated with young people? i don't know if you saw my post in the middle somewhere that stated they were quiet as mice, although this isn't necessarily the concern.

It's innappropriate because of the social situation they have placed themselves into.
They are in a public venue, where people are expected to keep reasonable tones and volumes to their actions. By playing quarters, they were being loud, infringing upon the enjoyment of the other patrons of the coffeehouse.
This has nothing to do with their age. Were it a group of loud, rowdy 30-some year old men, or a group of cackling 50-some year old women, talking and laughing obnoxiously loud, something should be said to them.

I don't think it has to do with their age so much as their location.

quiet as mice!!

Yeah, but was the quarter they were banging all over the table and glass quiet, too? Of course not--

Bottom line of this particular issue, age/shmage-- if the proprietor wants them to stop, they stop. Period. "My restaurant. My rules." You say you'd keep playing if you were asked to stop? Then you should be asked to leave.

We have no right to behave as we wish in someone else's establishment.

think of rosa parks when you say something like this

So in that vein of thought, it wasn't their playing quarters that was the issue, it was the fact that they were young?? Even if not playing quarters they would have been discriminated against by this woman?
Because the Rosa Parks argument -- the issue there was she was black, right?

the umbrella issue is oppression

foxyforce

calling them boys doesnt bug me so much, but i do understand the concern of others about things like this. i know people will call equality on it, it is what we do best. but it isn't equal in any way at all. the kid refusing to pledge allegience was not being treated equally either, even if his idea wasn't considered smart (even though it was in my opinion) they should still let him do whatever the **** he wanted to do. he was harming no one, just as these younger customers were not bothering anyone. they were bothering the woman behind the counter, because of their age! (i know this is conclusive on my part, but i can only dissect it so much, i must conclude my point!)

Sweety, this makes you sounds ageist against the woman. You are judging this woman and her actions by her age and the fact that she was older than them. If she had been the same age and asked them to stop, there wouldn't be a problem here. Your problem is that an older person asked someone younger to stop something. Maybe you should look into your own prejuidices before you start judging other people.

it's not that, you guys arre pulling this apart without little to say about ageism at all. if another youth walked up to them and said "how inappropriate, don't do this in a restaurant", i think it would have been ageist just as well

Marla64

Just to play devil's advocate here, isn't your assumption that she wouldn't have asked you to stop playing quarters an ageist one?

I agree. I don't care who they are or how old they are. I would have asked too. Its not appropriate behaviour in a restaurant.

what is inappropriate exactly? is it that they are playing a game? is it that they are young and playing this game? is it that games are associated with young people? i don't know if you saw my post in the middle somewhere that stated they were quiet as mice, although this isn't necessarily the concern.

It's innappropriate because of the social situation they have placed themselves into.
They are in a public venue, where people are expected to keep reasonable tones and volumes to their actions. By playing quarters, they were being loud, infringing upon the enjoyment of the other patrons of the coffeehouse.
This has nothing to do with their age. Were it a group of loud, rowdy 30-some year old men, or a group of cackling 50-some year old women, talking and laughing obnoxiously loud, something should be said to them.

I don't think it has to do with their age so much as their location.

quiet as mice!!

Yeah, but was the quarter they were banging all over the table and glass quiet, too? Of course not--

Bottom line of this particular issue, age/shmage-- if the proprietor wants them to stop, they stop. Period. "My restaurant. My rules." You say you'd keep playing if you were asked to stop? Then you should be asked to leave.

We have no right to behave as we wish in someone else's establishment.

think of rosa parks when you say something like this

Oh my-- this might be the most outrageous thing I've seen yet-- are you for real?

You're going to try and equate the two with a straight face?

CrystalT

*Jumping up on my own little soapbox*
I feel that too many times in our lives, we feel that others see us as a 'category' when in fact, they don't.

This woman may have simply been in a horribly pissy mood. (Will the censor hit the word pissy? If so, I'll put 'crummy mood' in its place.) Maybe she had a flat tire on her way to work, got yelled at by her boss, developed a migraine, tore her stocking, and while waiting in line for a coffee to ease her pain --- she saw this group and heard a quarter bounce..... and it simply set her off. Maybe she barked at them to stop, but then even felt a pang of guilt for acting like a witch.

Maybe she does treat younger folks poorly. Or maybe she was just in a terrible mood and lashed out at someone close to her physical person.

I just wish every one could understand that if I hate Bob, it's because I hate Bob and not because he is black. If I can't stand my next door neighbor, it's because she is too loud and wakes up my child at night, not because she is a lesbian. If I yell at the person behind me in the theater, it's because they wouldn't shut up during the movie, not because they are still in the teenage years.

I am an Equal Opportunity Hater. I dislike everyone and everything in some way or another. On the flip, I most assuredly love and adore everyone and every group in some way or another.

*Jumping off soapbox*

AMEN SISTER!!!

Marla64

*Jumping up on my own little soapbox*
I feel that too many times in our lives, we feel that others see us as a 'category' when in fact, they don't.

This woman may have simply been in a horribly pissy mood. (Will the censor hit the word pissy? If so, I'll put 'crummy mood' in its place.) Maybe she had a flat tire on her way to work, got yelled at by her boss, developed a migraine, tore her stocking, and while waiting in line for a coffee to ease her pain --- she saw this group and heard a quarter bounce..... and it simply set her off. Maybe she barked at them to stop, but then even felt a pang of guilt for acting like a witch.

Maybe she does treat younger folks poorly. Or maybe she was just in a terrible mood and lashed out at someone close to her physical person.

I just wish every one could understand that if I hate Bob, it's because I hate Bob and not because he is black. If I can't stand my next door neighbor, it's because she is too loud and wakes up my child at night, not because she is a lesbian. If I yell at the person behind me in the theater, it's because they wouldn't shut up during the movie, not because they are still in the teenage years.

I am an Equal Opportunity Hater. I dislike everyone and everything in some way or another. On the flip, I most assuredly love and adore everyone and every group in some way or another.

*Jumping off soapbox*

AMEN SISTER!!!

How did I miss this post-- classic. :laugh:

Phoenix_Rising

it is just an example right. i am with you that there are extraneous variables that make people act the way they do, like being in a bad mood, or hating that particular youth for a particular reason.

but it is just an example in that ageism does exist, and people often cop out and say they aren't ageist, that women wouuld probably say that, but tim horton's in my area is, and for the sake of the argument, understand they are, and that it is wrong!

I don't think anyone here would disagree that ageism exists. Usually, it's seen in the workplace moreso than in public venues.

However, many business owners don't want younger adults in their establishments for a number of good reasons. In coffeeshops in particular, they tend not to spend very much (I was guilty of this myself in high school) while taking up seats for hours on end. They are generally louder in groups than they should be (by socially created norms and morays), which annoys the older, more loyal, more cash-affluent customers. Generally, they are less respectful of their surroundings (I'm thinking back to all the salt and pepper shakers my friends destroyed, all the chairs that were 'accidentally broken' during horseplay, the gum under the seats, the drawing or carving into table tops, the spilled messes left lying....). So while you may classify it as ageism, there are very good reasons many shop owners don't want to draw younger crowds.

CrystalT

calling them boys doesnt bug me so much, but i do understand the concern of others about things like this. i know people will call equality on it, it is what we do best. but it isn't equal in any way at all. the kid refusing to pledge allegience was not being treated equally either, even if his idea wasn't considered smart (even though it was in my opinion) they should still let him do whatever the **** he wanted to do. he was harming no one, just as these younger customers were not bothering anyone. they were bothering the woman behind the counter, because of their age! (i know this is conclusive on my part, but i can only dissect it so much, i must conclude my point!)

Sweety, this makes you sounds ageist against the woman. You are judging this woman and her actions by her age and the fact that she was older than them. If she had been the same age and asked them to stop, there wouldn't be a problem here. Your problem is that an older person asked someone younger to stop something. Maybe you should look into your own prejuidices before you start judging other people.

it's not that, you guys arre pulling this apart without little to say about ageism at all. if another youth walked up to them and said "how inappropriate, don't do this in a restaurant", i think it would have been ageist just as well

If you subtract the age factor, how is asking someone who is doing something you feel is disruptive to stop ageist?? It doesn't fit the nice little definition of ageism that you provided to us earlier. There isn't even discrimination in such a simple request.

Phoenix_Rising

the umbrella issue is oppression

But "oppression" is very different from complying with societal norms.
Society pressures us to comply with society's own "punishments" as a result of non-compliance. Ask any "Goth kid" about that.
Oppression is much different, much more severe.

leavinglasvegas

Just to play devil's advocate here, isn't your assumption that she wouldn't have asked you to stop playing quarters an ageist one?

I agree. I don't care who they are or how old they are. I would have asked too. Its not appropriate behaviour in a restaurant.

what is inappropriate exactly? is it that they are playing a game? is it that they are young and playing this game? is it that games are associated with young people? i don't know if you saw my post in the middle somewhere that stated they were quiet as mice, although this isn't necessarily the concern.

It's innappropriate because of the social situation they have placed themselves into.
They are in a public venue, where people are expected to keep reasonable tones and volumes to their actions. By playing quarters, they were being loud, infringing upon the enjoyment of the other patrons of the coffeehouse.
This has nothing to do with their age. Were it a group of loud, rowdy 30-some year old men, or a group of cackling 50-some year old women, talking and laughing obnoxiously loud, something should be said to them.

I don't think it has to do with their age so much as their location.

quiet as mice!!

Yeah, but was the quarter they were banging all over the table and glass quiet, too? Of course not--

Bottom line of this particular issue, age/shmage-- if the proprietor wants them to stop, they stop. Period. "My restaurant. My rules." You say you'd keep playing if you were asked to stop? Then you should be asked to leave.

We have no right to behave as we wish in someone else's establishment.

think of rosa parks when you say something like this

Are you seriously comparing Rosa Parks to a couple teenagers? I highly doubt that there is a "quarter bounce" revolution on the rise. There is a big difference between following basic norms in society and taking a stand for human and civil rights.