The no BS MFP EDUCATION thread

ninerbuff

You, my friend, are a pretty smart guy -- for a niners fan.

Random protein wondering ... I can typically hit with a shake, no problem. But on rest days, I've been skipping them just because I tend to go over calories otherwise. Better to go over a few hundred and hit my 40%?

Ah, muscle rebuilds on rest days..............what do you think?

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

ninerbuff

I have a question about heart rate. I used to do my heart rate manually for 6 sec and multiply by 10, now I have a heart rate monitor. Sometimes, okay a lot of time during my workouts my heart rate gets really high...like 220-240.

Have you taken your heart rate manually during any of these episodes? What kind of monitor do you use? I ask because I've had a similar issue. I've been trying recently to keep my heart rate around 145 while running. Some times my monitor would report numbers that high (220-240). When I stopped and took my pulse manually, it was around 145. The monitor might not be accurate. It could be some sort of transient electrical energy interfering with the device.

I don't know about you, but my heart rate drops dramatically the second I stop. I don't know about 240-145 but I can easily be running with HR @ ~ 190 and it will drop to 150 within seconds if I stop.

Damn good VO2 max! I can get mine up to 190, but to get it to 150 after stopping would take at least 15 seconds. And I'm in pretty good shape.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

ninerbuff

VO2 MAX

VO2 max, or maximal oxygen uptake, is one factor that can determine an athlete's capacity to perform sustained exercise and is linked to aerobic endurance. VO2 max refers to the maximum amount of oxygen that an individual can utilize during intense or maximal exercise. It is measured as "milliliters of oxygen used in one minute per kilogram of body weight."

This measurement is generally considered the best indicator of an athlete's cardiovascular fitness and aerobic endurance. Theoretically, the more oxygen you can use during high level exercise, the more ATP (energy) you can produce. This is often the case with elite endurance athletes who typically have very high VO2 max values.

V02 max should not be confused with the lactate threshold (LT) or anaerobic threshold (AT), which refers to the point during exhaustive, all-out exercise at which lactate builds up in the muscles during exercise. With proper training, athletes are often able to substantially increase their AT and exercise longer at a higher intensity.

One of the programs I use to help clients increase VO2 max is TABATA PROTOCOL.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

chrishgt4

I have a question about heart rate. I used to do my heart rate manually for 6 sec and multiply by 10, now I have a heart rate monitor. Sometimes, okay a lot of time during my workouts my heart rate gets really high...like 220-240.

Have you taken your heart rate manually during any of these episodes? What kind of monitor do you use? I ask because I've had a similar issue. I've been trying recently to keep my heart rate around 145 while running. Some times my monitor would report numbers that high (220-240). When I stopped and took my pulse manually, it was around 145. The monitor might not be accurate. It could be some sort of transient electrical energy interfering with the device.

I don't know about you, but my heart rate drops dramatically the second I stop. I don't know about 240-145 but I can easily be running with HR @ ~ 190 and it will drop to 150 within seconds if I stop.

Damn good VO2 max! I can get mine up to 190, but to get it to 150 after stopping would take at least 15 seconds. And I'm in pretty good shape.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

I think it's all the football I play. I have to literally go from sprinting up one end of the pitch, then with a few seconds rest I have to sprint to the other. Over and over and over and over and over..........and over lol

i would say mine takes 10-15 seconds to drop though - which is by the time i have measured it, it is down at 150.

Determinednoob

VoxExMachina bb.com forums

Full Body Routines vs. Splits

The question often arises, especially from beginners, about what type of routine to use. Your buddy told you to use a full body routine, but the muscle mags suggest a 5-day "bodybuilder" split. You don't want to start off on the wrong foot, but there is so much information out there that sorting through what to do can be difficult.

This is some of my opinion on the subject, and maybe it'll help a few people out.


Full Body Routines:

In my opinion, this is the place for a beginner to start. I have many years of lifting experience, and have pretty much always used some form of bodybuilding split routine. However, if I had it to do over again, I would have begun with a good full-body routine, built around the compound lifts, done 3 times per week. When you are a beginner you don't generally have the muscular strength to work intensely enough, or with enough volume, to require as much recovery time as someone who is stronger or more experienced. If you are a young beginner, on top of that, you have very good recovery abilities due to high hormone levels. So, because you are recovered relatively quickly after each workout, you want to stimulate each muscle group more often to induce strength and growth.

Another reason to start with a full body program is that this gives you the opportunity to learn and practice the basic lifts: squats, deadlifts, bench press, overhead press, barbell rows, etc. Whether your goal is bodybuilding, strength athlete, sports, or just remaining fit, these really ought to form the basis of any routine. No matter what path you choose to "branch out" on later, these core lifts will serve you well.


2-Day Split Routines:

So the next question becomes: when should I think about split routines? In very simple terms, the answer is: when full body routines become too much. Usually, as you get stronger, it becomes very difficult to maintain enough energy to do squats, deadlifts, bench press, etc. all on the same day. You may also find that you want to add in a few isolation exercises to bring up your weak areas, or you may want to begin focusing more on each core lift. Another issue is recovery; as you get stronger, you are able to work out more intensely, and that means longer recovery times. So at that point, it makes sense to "split" things up by only doing a part of your previous full routine on any given day.

A logical place to make your first split is into an Upper / Lower type routine. This will have you doing your upper body work like bench press, rows, overhead pressing on 1 day, and your lower body work like squats on another day. Another way to go would be a "push/pull" type split where you do all your pulling exercises (rows, deads) on one day and your pushing exercises (squats, overhead press, bench) on another day. Exactly how you do it is up to you, but the point is to divide the workload per session. This will give you more time (and volume) per body part, and also give you a bit more recovery before you work that muscle again. Most people will typically cycle through a 2-day split like these twice per week. So instead of every muscle being stimulated 3 times per week with the full body, now it's twice per week with the 2-day split.


3+ Day Splits:

3, 4, 5 (or more!) day splits come in when you again feel the need to divide your workload to match your recovery abilities, or increase the amount of work you want to do on specific muscles or lifts. Generally, these type of splits are mostly bodybuilding related, but even strength athletes may chose to split so they can work on speed lifts one day, strength work another, etc.

At this point (speaking to bodybuilding) many lifters will only hit each muscle group once per week. This has the advantage of letting you really hammer a muscle group with a lot of weight and volume, and then give it plenty of time to recover while you're bringing the pain to the next group. Your full body effort is broken down into segments that are manageable from a workload, energy, and recovery standpoint.

If you are an "experienced" (older) lifter with decreased recovery abilities (we all ain't as young as we used to be), this type of split often is useful for staying healthy due to the increased recovery time per body part. The kids might not think it's important, but your tendons might.

There are so many variations of splits that I won't even attempt to detail all the possibilities. If you follow the advice in this post, by the time you need a multiple day split, you'll know your body, your goals, and have a pretty good idea of what you want to do.


Final Thoughts:

I believe it's a logical notion to start with a full body routine, and begin splitting only when you feel the need to increase your recovery or increase your volume. If you stick with the concept that you're trying to hit a muscle as often as you are able while still recovering adequately, and let that be your guide, you'll do okay.

Hopefully, this gives some food for thought to help you decide what type of routine you should use. Ultimately, however, it's worth saying that you can do fine with any well-designed program even if you begin with a split routine right from the beginning.

Determinednoob

VoxExMachina bb.com

De-Load, the Overlooked Technique
Introduction:

There are countless posts on the best way to train biceps, the optimum split for getting huge, how to bench press properly, or any of a million other questions on how to become bigger, leaner, or break through plateaus.

But one technique that helps achieve all of these goals is very seldom discussed: De-Loading. A de-load is a planned reduction in volume or intensity (usually for one week, or one cycle of your training split), whose purpose is to allow the body to dissipate accumulated fatigue, allow you to fully recover, and prepare you for further gains. Also, remember that weight training does not just tax your muscles. It also puts stress on your joints, ligaments, connective tissues, and central nervous system.


Why should you De-Load:

•To allow your joints, tendons, ligaments, and other supporting tissues to repair.
•To allow your central nervous system (CNS) to recover
•To give yourself a mental break from the intensity of heavy lifting
•To reduce the risk of under-recovery (overtraining)
•To prepare you for greater gains
Experienced lifters know that you can't go 100% all out in the gym all the time. Your body can't take it, and you can't keep up that mental intensity forever. If you try to, you often wind up getting injured, start just "going through the motions" in your workouts, stall out in your progression, and perhaps even give up completely.

If you de-load at regular intervals, you will find that over time you will make better progress, reduce your injuries, and keep yourself in the game mentally.


When to De-Load:

This depends on your experience & intensity level, your age & recovery ability, the program you are following, and many other factors. If you are new to lifting, you lack the ability to overtax your CNS, muscles, and connective tissues as much as a very experienced lifter, so you may only need to deload once every couple of months. If you are older and have a reduced ability to recover from weight training, then you may need to deload as often as every couple of weeks. In general, you need to set your frequency of deloading according to how hard you train and how quickly you recover. Somewhere in the range of every 4-8 weeks will work well for most people.

Signs that a de-load may be in order:

•You feel tired, persistently fatigued, have a decreased desire to train, or other symptoms of under-recovery (overtraining).
•Your weight progression is stalling and you can't seem to increase most lifts
•You are experiencing aches, sprains, tendinitis, etc.
•You train regularly
Note that last point again: If you train regularly, then you should de-load regularly as well. In fact, a regularly scheduled de-load should come before you start exhibiting any of these symptoms.


How to De-Load:

A de-load is a planned reduction in either volume or intensity, usually a week long (or one training cycle of your split). How you do it is up to you. The main thing is to back off your total effort to about 50-60% of what you would do during a normal training week. A few examples of how to train during a de-load week:

•Do your normal routine and normal volume (sets & reps) but reduce the weight you use to about 50-60% of what you normally work out with for each exercise.
•Use the same weight as you normally would, but drop your number of total volume (sets x reps) to 50-60% of your normal volume. (Note that you should stick to an 8+ rep scheme here.)
•Train muscle groups that normally don't get a lot of attention
•Use light weight and focus on refining your form and technique
•Decrease your lifting and increase your cardio

... or any combination of the above. The main thing is to make sure that at the end of the workout you still have a decent amount of "gas in the tank". Personally, I prefer to de-load by dropping my weights to 50-60% of what I normally use, stick with the same volume, and focus on refining my form, technique, and mind-muscle connection.

If you want, you can even just take a week off entirely. If you know you are going to be on vacation, for example, just plan your training around it so that you can use that time as a de-load period. You'll be training smart and not feel the need to try to find some way to work out when the rest of your family is relaxing.


Summary:

The goal of a de-load is to allow you to become stronger, faster, and bigger, by incorporating a planned "active recovery" phase into your normal workout program. If you do it correctly, you should be able to make more gains that you would without de-loading, reduce your risk of injury, give yourself a mental break, preemptively address hidden recovery issues.

Determinednoob

Emma-Leigh bb.com

Calculating Calorie & Macronutrient Needs
Calculating Calories and Macro's
Please note - the following should be taken as general advice only and should not be used in the face of medical contraindications. Please consult your physician before starting any diet or nutrition plan.


Basic Terminology
1/ BMR (Basal Metabolic Rate): The amount of calories you need to consume to maintain your body if you were comatose (base level).
2/ NEAT (Non-Exercise Associated Thermogenesis): The calorie of daily activity that is NOT exercise (eg: washing, walking, talking, shopping, working). ie: INCIDENTAL EXERCISE! It is something that everyone has a good amount of control over.
3/ EAT (Exercise Associated Thermogenesis): The calorie requirements associated with planned exercise. Unless someone is doing a whole heap of exercise (eg: two or more hrs training a day) it usually doesn't add a stack of calories to your requirements (30 minutes of 'elliptical training isn't going to do it')
4/ TEF (Thermic effect of feeding): The calorie expenditure associated with eating. REGARDLESS of what myths you have been told - this is NOT dependent on MEAL FREQUENCY. It is a % of TOTAL CALORIES CONSUMED (and 15% of 3 x 600 cal meals is the same as 15% of 6 x 300 cal meals). It varies according to MACRONUTRIENT content and FIBER content. For most mixed diets, it is something around 15%. Protein is higher (up to 25%), carbs are variable (between 5-25%), and fats are low (usually less than 5%). So -> More protein and more carbs and more fiber = HIGHER TEF. More FAT = LOWER TEF.
5/ TEE (Total Energy Expenditure): The total calories you require - and the sum of the above (BMR + NEAT + EAT + TEF).

How much do you need?
A multitude of things impact MAINTENANCE calorie needs.
- Age & sex (males generally need > females)
- Total weight & lean mass (more lean mass = more needed)
- Physiological status (eg: sick or injured, pregnant, growth')
- Hormones
- Exercise level (more activity = more needed)
- Daily activity level (more activity = more needed)
- Diet (that is - macronutrient intake)

In order to calculate your requirements the most accurate measure is via Calorimetry [the measure of 'chemical reactions' in your body & the heat produced by these reactions], either directly (via placing a calorimeter where the heat you produce is measured) or indirectly (eg: HOOD studies where they monitor how much oxygen you use/ carbon dioxide and nitrogen you excrete over a given time). But although accurate they are completely impractical for most people & we mostly rely on pre-set formula to calculate our needs.


NOTE: IF YOU ARE LESS THAN 18 YRS OF AGE - THESE FORMULA WILL NOT BE ACCURATE!There is an energy cost associated with growth / inefficient movement / high surface area:mass ratio. Look HERE for alternatives.
As a teenager I would also STRONGLY suggest you don't obsess on calories and macros! Eat well, exercise regularly, and have fun while you can!



Estimating Requirements
The simplest method is to base your intake on a standard 'calories per unit of weight (usually kilograms)'. Typically:
- 26 to 30 kcals/kg/day for normal, healthy individuals with sedentary lifestyles doing little physical activity [12.0-14 kcal/pound]
- 31 to 37 kcal/kg/day for those involved in light to moderate activity 3-5 x a week with moderately active lifestyles [14-16 kcal/ pound]
- 38 to 40 kcals/kg/day for those involved in vigorous activity and highly active jobs [16-18 kcal/ pound].
For those involved in HEAVY training (eg: athletes) - the demand is greater:
- 41 to 50 kcals/kg/day for those involved in moderate to heavy training (for example: 15-20 hrs/ week training) [18.5-22 kcal/ pound]
- 50 or above kcals/kg/day for those involved in heavy to extreme training [> 22 kcal/ pound]

There are then a number of other formula which calculate BMR. This means it calculates what you need should you be in a coma.
1/ Harris-Benedict formula: Very inaccurate. It was derived from studies on LEAN, YOUNG, ACTIVE males MANY YEARS AGO (1919). Notorious for OVERESTIMATING requirements, especially in the overweight. IF YOU CAN AVOID IT, DON'T USE IT!
MEN: BMR = 66 + [13.7 x weight (kg)] + [5 x height (cm)] - [6.76 x age (years)]
WOMEN: BMR = 655 + [9.6 x weight (kg)] + [1.8 x height (cm)] - [4.7 x age (years)]

2/Mifflin-St Jeor: Developed in the 1990s and more realistic in todays settings. It still doesn't take into consideration the differences as a consequence of high BF%. Thus, once again, it OVERESTIMATES NEEDS, ESPECIALLY IN THE OVERWEIGHT.
MEN: BMR = [9.99 x weight (kg)] + [6.25 x height (cm)] - [4.92 x age (years)] + 5
WOMEN: BMR = [9.99 x weight (kg)] + [6.25 x height (cm)] - [4.92 x age (years)] -161

3/Katch-McArdle:Considered the most accurate formula for those who are relatively lean. Use ONLY if you have a good estimate of your bodyfat %.
BMR = 370 + (21.6 x LBM)Where LBM = [total weight (kg) x (100 - bodyfat %)]/100

As these are only BMR calculations To convert BMR to a TOTAL requirement you need to multiply the result of your BMR by an 'activity variable' to give TEE.
The Activity Factor is the TOTAL cost of living, NOT JUST YOUR TRAINING. Think about it - if you train 1 hr a day - WHAT ARE YOU DOING THE OTHER 23 HRS?! So MORE important than training -- it includes work, life activities, training/sport & the TEF of ~15% (an average mixed diet).
Average activity variables are:
1.2 = Sedentary (Desk job, and Little Formal Exercise)
1.3-1.4 = Lightly Active (Light daily activity AND light exercise 1-3 days a week)
1.5-1.6 = Moderately Active (Moderately daily Activity & Moderate exercise 3-5 days a week)
1.7-1.8 = Very Active (Physically demanding lifestyle & Hard exercise 6-7 days a week)
1.9-2.2 = Extremely Active (Athlete in ENDURANCE training or VERY HARD physical job)

How Accurate are they?: They give rough ball-park figures and are still 'guesstimations'. So the aim is to use these as 'rough figures', monitor your weight/ measurements for 2-4 weeks, & IF your weight is stable/ measurements are stable, you have likely found maintenance.

Using the Above to Recalculate Based on Goals
You then need to DECREASE or INCREASE intake based on your goals (eg: lose or gain mass). It is not recommended to use a 'generic calorie amounts' (eg: 500 cals/ day). Instead this should be calculated on a % of your maintenance. Why? The effect of different calorie amounts is going to be markedly different based on someones size/ total calorie intake. For example - subtracting 500 cals/ day from a 1500 total intake is 1/3rd of the total cals, where 500 cals/ day from 3000 total intake is only 1/6th of the total. The results will therefore be markedly different on an individuals energy level & weight loss. Generally:
- To ADD weight: ADD 10-20% calories to the total above
- To LOSE weight: SUBTRACT 10-20% calories from the total above
Then monitor your results and adjust as required.

Macronutrient Needs
Once you work out calorie needs, you then work out how much of each macronutrient you should aim for. This is one of the areas that is MOST often confused but This should NOT be based on a RATIO of macro intakes. (eg: '30:40:30 or 40:40:20') Your body doesn't CARE what % intake you have. It works based on SUFFICIENT QUANTITY per MASS.

So to try to make it as simple as possible:
1. Protein: Protein intake is a bit of a controversial issue in nutrition. The general recommendations given in the 'bodybuilding' area are nearly double the 'standard' recommendations given in the Sports Nutrition Arena.
The GENERAL sports nutrition guideline based on clinical trials suggest that in the face of ADEQUATE calories and CARBS the following protein intakes are sufficient:
STRENGTH training -> 1.4 to 2g per KG bodyweight (about .6 / pound)
ENDURANCE training -> 1.2 to 1.8g per KG bodyweight (about .8 / pound)
ADOLESCENT in training -> 1.8 to 2.2g per KG bodyweight (about 1g / pound)
BUT researchers also acknowledge that protein becomes MORE important in the context of LOWER calorie intakes, or LOWER carb intakes.
Recent evidence also suggests that protein intakes of 3g/kg help with physiological and psychological stressors associated with high volume or intense training.
One should also note that ADEQUATE v's OPTIMAL is not discussed when it comes to hypertrophy v's performance.
And lastly - you need to consider thermogenics/ satiety/ and personal preference.

So - General 'bodybuilding' guidelines for protein would be as follows:
- Moderate bodyfat and training load = 2.2-2.8g per kg TOTAL weight (about 1-1.25g per pound)
- Very Low bodyfat or Very Low Calorie or High training load = 2.4 - 3g per kg TOTAL weight (1.1-1.35g per pound)
- High bodyfat, high calorie, or low training load = 1.6 to 2.2g per kg TOTAL weight (.75 - 1g per pound)
Anecdotally, as most find HIGHER protein intake better for satiety, partitioning, blood sugar control, and hypertrophy. UNLESS you have medical reasons for lower protein, or unless guided to use the GENERAL sports nutrition guidelines, I would suggest the BODYBUILDING values.


2. Fats: Generally speaking, although the body can get away with short periods of very low fat, in the long run your body NEEDS fat to maintain health, satiety, and sanity. Additionally - any form of high intensity training will benefit from a 'fat buffer' in your diet - which controls free radical damage & inflammation. General guides:
Average or low bodyfat: 1 - 2g fat/ kg body weight [between 0.40 - 1g total weight/ pounds]
High bodyfat: 1-2g fat/ Kg LEAN weight [between 0.4 - 1g LEAN weight/ pounds]
Low calorie dieting - you can decrease further, but as a minimum, I would not suggest LESS than about 0.30g/ pound.
Note 1: Total fat intake is NOT the same as 'essential fats' (essential fats are specific TYPES of fats that are INCLUDED in your total fat intake)...


3. Carbs: For carbs there are no specific 'requirements' for your body so - but carbs are important for athletes, ACTIVE individuals, or those trying to GAIN MASS. [carbs help with workout intensity, health, & satiety (+ sanity)]. This means if you are an athlete involved in a good volume of training I would suggest you CALCULATE a requirement for carbs as a PRIORITY - then go back and calculate protein / fat:
Moderately active: 4.5 - 6.5 g/ kg (about 2 - 3g/ pound)
High active: 6.5 - 8.5 g/ kg (about 3 - 4g/ pound)
INTENSE activity: + 8.5g / kg (more than 4g/ pound)

For 'others' - simply carbohydrate intakes via the calories left over from fats/ protein:
carb cals = Total cal needs - ([protein grams above x 4] + [fat grams above x 9])
carb grams = (above cals)/ 4

Determinednoob

Alan Aragon

Hierarchy of Importance

When speaking of nutrition for improving body composition or training performance, it's crucial to realize there's an underlying hierarchy of importance. At the top of the hierarchy is total amount of the macronutrients by the end of the day. Distantly below that is the precise timing of those nutrients. With very few exceptions, athletes and active individuals eat multiple times per day. Thus, the majority of their day is spent in the postprandial (fed) rather than a post-absorptive (fasted) state. The vast majority of nutrient timing studies have been done on overnight-fasted subjects put through glycogen depletion protocols, which obviously limits the applicability of the outcomes. Pre-exercise (and/or during-exercise) nutrient intake often has a lingering carry-over effect into the post-exercise period. Throughout the day, there's a constant overlap of meal digestion & nutrient absorption. For this reason, the effectiveness of nutrient timing does not require a high degree of precision.

The Primary Laws of Nutrient Timing

•The First Law of Nutrient Timing is: hitting your daily macronutrient targets is FAR more important than nutrient timing.
•The Second Law of Nutrient Timing is: hitting your daily macronutrient targets is FAR more important than nutrient timing.

NOTE: Please do not misinterpret the above to mean that timing is irrelevant. On the contrary, it's very relevant. Timing just happens to have MUCH LESS impact on results than hitting your macro totals for the day. This doesn't diminish the fact that people need to individualize their meal timing so that it maximizes their training performance (& does not hinder it). The latter manipulations vary widely, because people have different training protocols, goals, and tolerances. For example, some people experience their best training performance in an immediately fed state, while others do best in a semi-fasted or fasted state. Endurance athletes who neglect carbohydrate timing will not optimize their training capacity. Strength/power athletes with minimal endurance demands have much less of a concern for this. There's no way to 'universalize' a nutrient timing prescription that applies to everyone & all types of athletes. But to reiterate, macro totals for the day overshadow timing in terms of importance, especially for bodybuilding. If macro totals for the day are not hit, the most precisely neurotic timing of meals is all for *kitten*.

Determinednoob

Alan Aragon

The postexercise "anabolic window" is a highly misused & abused concept. Preworkout nutrition all but cancels the urgency, unless you're an endurance athlete with multiple glycogen-depleting events in a single day. Getting down to brass tacks, a relatively recent study (Power et al. 2009) showed that a 45g dose of whey protein isolate takes appx 50 minutes to cause blood AA levels to peak. Resulting insulin levels, which peaked at 40 minutes after ingestion, remained at elevations known to max out the inhibition of muscle protein breakdown (15-30 mU/L) for 120 minutes after ingestion. This dose takes 3 hours for insulin & AA levels to return to baseline from the point of ingestion. The inclusion of carbs to this dose would cause AA & insulin levels to peak higher & stay elevated above baseline even longer.

So much for the anabolic peephole & the urgency to down AAs during your weight training workout; they are already seeping into circulation (& will continue to do so after your training bout is done). Even in the event that a preworkout meal is skipped, the anabolic effect of the postworkout meal is increased as a supercompensatory response (Deldicque et al, 2010). Moving on, another recent study (Staples et al, 2010) found that a substantial dose of carbohydrate (50g maltodextrin) added to 25g whey protein was unable to further increase postexercise net muscle protein balance compared to the protein dose without carbs. Again, this is not to say that adding carbs at this point is counterproductive, but it certainly doesn't support the idea that you must get your lightning-fast postexercise carb orgy for optimal results.

To add to this... Why has the majority of longer-term research failed to show any meaningful differences in nutrient timing relative to the resistance training bout? It's likely because the body is smarter than we give it credit for. Most people don't know that as a result of a single training bout, the receptivity of muscle to protein dosing can persist for at least 24 hours: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21289204

More from earlier in the thread:

Here's what you're not seeming to grasp: the "windows" for taking advantage of nutrient timing are not little peepholes. They're more like bay windows of a mansion. You're ignoring just how long the anabolic effects are of a typical mixed meal. Depending on the size of a meal, it takes a good 1-2 hours for circulating substrate levels to peak, and it takes a good 3-6 hours (or more) for everythng to drop back down to baseline.

You're also ignoring the fact that the anabolic effects of a meal are maxed out at much lower levels than typical meals drive insulin & amino acids up to. Furthermore, you're also ignoring the body's ability of anabolic (& fat-oxidative) supercompensation when forced to work in the absence of fuels. So, metaphorically speaking, our physiology basically has the universe mapped out and you're thinking it needs to be taught addition & subtraction.

Determinednoob

Alan Aragon

When trying to cut down , what are your thoughts on HIIT and LISS Cardio?I can’t really stand either one, to tell you the truth. Cardio is grossly overrated, and is not an absolute necessity for everyone who wants to lean down. For the most part, a calorie deficit is a calorie deficit. Weight training can easily cause the cardiovascular adaptations that people seek through cardio, with the added benefit of supporting lean body mass & strength. I’m a strong proponent of doing the least amount of formal cardio as necessary to reach the goal, starting with zero.

Achieving the goal with the least amount of ‘formal’ cardio has the following benefits, in no particular order of importance:

1.It saves time.
2.It prevents joints from incurring overuse injuries.
3.It promotes better recovery from weight training, particularly in the muscles that might experience work-overlap (ie, the legs).
4.Resistance training has plenty of cardio-respiratory & cardiovascular effects on its own, as long as you’re not training like a pure powerlifter with long rest periods between all sets.
5.Cardio is a good ‘trump card’ to use if/when fat loss plateaus arise and other options are maxed out. If you use the card right from the outset, you won’t have any cards to pull when you need them. It can always be added incrementally on an as-needed basis. This achieves the underlying goal of doing the minimum amount of work required to reach & maintain the goal. If your goal was to become a better runner, cyclist, swimmer, etc for performance or endurance’s sake, then the protocol would definitely incorporate the training of those qualities through cardio. However, cardio simply is not mandatory or optimal for other non-endurance pursuits – given that a sound resistance training protocol is maintained. I would also add to this that if someone ENJOYS cardio, there’s no reason in particular to avoid it. Just watch for the common tendency to overdo it.
With all of that said, I think that HIIT or LISS cardio should be done on the basis of personal preference and orthopedic (& cardiac) tolerance.

Some people are just not cut out for HIIT, so LISS is their better option. Those who can physically handle high-intensity or high-impact stuff, and don’t have a lot of spare time & patience, HIIT is the ticket. Both accomplish the same thing, but use different routes to get there; one is not blanketly ‘better’ than the other. HIIT is more stressful on the body, but it’s more time-efficient. LISS is time-consuming, but less risky, and less prone to interfere with recovery from weight training. Pick your personal poison. Also note that there’s nothing wrong with doing both on an alternating or combined basis.

Determinednoob

Alan Aragon

What are good tips of dieting for an average bodybuilder?Don’t expect your fat to melt off your body like candles in a fireplace.

It takes time. The more fat you have to lose, the quicker it will come off (overweight folks can expect 2-3 lbs lost per week). The less you have to lose the slower it will come off (average folks can expect 1-2 lbs lost per week, lean folks half that at most). I’d rather see people set 6-12 month goals than 6-12 week goals. Crash dieting for an event or a shoot is a different story, but the trick is to not let yourself get cornered into the position of crash-dieting. Pics & clothing fit tell a whole lot more than the scale. Bodyfat measuring devices all have their built-in error margins, so take those readings with a grain of salt. Pics don’t lie (neither does video). One last thing I want to add is that very few people have the genetics and/or the drugs to achieve the same level of physique as their idols. People should focus on progress, not perfection.

What supplements do you consider “essential”?A cheap multi and fish oil for those who don’t regularly eat fish. Those who avoid dairy can benefit from a calcium/vitamin D supplement. I don’t really see protein powder as much as a supplement as it is a convenient food product. Beyond that, the only legal stuff that really works is creatine. People get a boner over BCAA supps but don’t realize that about 20% of their protein intake consists of BCAA. Fat burner supps for the most part suck *kitten*, especially in habitual caffeine consumers. Nevertheless, all supps work if you take it with a dose of expectation bias from believing in their marketing. The placebo effect is the most powerful supplement of all.

Determinednoob

Starting Strength write up http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=998224

Build calves - http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/training-the-calves.html

Eating “clean” - http://www.wannabebig.com/diet-and-nutrition/the-dirt-on-clean-eating/

Creatine - http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=112484941

How NOT to workout http://www.leangains.com/2011/09/*uckarounditis.html You have to replace the * with F

Dispel bull**** http://www.leangains.com/2010/10/top-ten-fasting-myths-debunked.html

Determinednoob

Determinednoob

Step 1 – Determine your goals

For the most pat no matter what your goals are best results can be gotten from a mix of proper strength training, nutrition, and basic cardio or lack of. It depends on your goals, but some combination of these 3 things will fit almost anyone. Often people do not set specific goals. They will go with the vague "get in shape." But what does that mean? The most common specifics would be to increase muscular strength\size\endurance, maintain general cardiovascular health, increase cardiovascular endurance, and possibly increase flexibility. Beyond that there are can be other less commonly sought ones like increase my vertical jump, increase quickness\agility, increase explosive power etc. I am sure there are more that I am missing, but these should cover it for most people. The first step in deciding what kind of exercise regime to follow should be determining your specific goals. Then you should get started with the simplest programming with the least effort and time spent that still gets you there as quickly and efficiently as possible within the bounds of safety.

ZoeLifts

Bump! Good idea, Ninerbuff!

Determinednoob

Determinednoob parroting in his own words

Cardio blurb:
Cardio is not a magic fat burner. It does not allow you to lose\keep off fat while gaining muscle. It burns calories like any other activity. If you are trying to lose fat you can do cardio or eat less food, either one. If you are trying to gain muscle, cardio will require that you eat more to gain it (along with hindering muscle recovery if overdone). As for general cardiovascular health, some would argue that it can be maintained just from hard and heavy barbell lifting. If you want to guarantee it, you can simply walk at ~3mph for 10-20 minutes twice per week.

Should I bulk or cut?
If you are asking this question, you are probably a new trainee with some fat but not a lot and likely not a lot of muscle either. As a brand new trainee you can gain muscle and lose fat simultaneously for 3-4 months. After that you will have to pick one or the other and cycle. A good rule of thumb I have seen stated is cut to 10%bf, bulk to 15%bf and repeat until you have the look you want. As for the first 3-4 months, eat at maintenance until your progress stalls (most notably you can no longer increase weight on your lifts). At that time re-evaluate yourself and decide whether you would be happier with less fat or more muscle first. (The body fat percentages listed here are for males. For women they would be higher and possibly vary from one to another.)

Supplements
Supplements should only be used if you cannot meet your needs with real food. A multivitamin (still just insurance if you eat properly), fish oil if you don’t eat a lot of fish, protein powder if for some reason you can’t eat enough food, and creatine. Some people say even creatine is a waste, but it does work and is cheap. Just stick with straight creatine monohydrate. Don’t buy anything where it is mixed with extra sugar etc. If you want to go farther, veggie greens powder is another good source of insurance for micronutrient intake. Also GABA has shown some promise, but whatever. Realize that the majority of results comes from lifting, eating, and sleeping.

melanieparker13

BUMP FOR LATER

ninerbuff

VoxExMachina bb.com

De-Load, the Overlooked Technique
Introduction:

There are countless posts on the best way to train biceps, the optimum split for getting huge, how to bench press properly, or any of a million other questions on how to become bigger, leaner, or break through plateaus.

But one technique that helps achieve all of these goals is very seldom discussed: De-Loading. A de-load is a planned reduction in volume or intensity (usually for one week, or one cycle of your training split), whose purpose is to allow the body to dissipate accumulated fatigue, allow you to fully recover, and prepare you for further gains. Also, remember that weight training does not just tax your muscles. It also puts stress on your joints, ligaments, connective tissues, and central nervous system.


Why should you De-Load:

•To allow your joints, tendons, ligaments, and other supporting tissues to repair.
•To allow your central nervous system (CNS) to recover
•To give yourself a mental break from the intensity of heavy lifting
•To reduce the risk of under-recovery (overtraining)
•To prepare you for greater gains
Experienced lifters know that you can't go 100% all out in the gym all the time. Your body can't take it, and you can't keep up that mental intensity forever. If you try to, you often wind up getting injured, start just "going through the motions" in your workouts, stall out in your progression, and perhaps even give up completely.

If you de-load at regular intervals, you will find that over time you will make better progress, reduce your injuries, and keep yourself in the game mentally.


When to De-Load:

This depends on your experience & intensity level, your age & recovery ability, the program you are following, and many other factors. If you are new to lifting, you lack the ability to overtax your CNS, muscles, and connective tissues as much as a very experienced lifter, so you may only need to deload once every couple of months. If you are older and have a reduced ability to recover from weight training, then you may need to deload as often as every couple of weeks. In general, you need to set your frequency of deloading according to how hard you train and how quickly you recover. Somewhere in the range of every 4-8 weeks will work well for most people.

Signs that a de-load may be in order:

•You feel tired, persistently fatigued, have a decreased desire to train, or other symptoms of under-recovery (overtraining).
•Your weight progression is stalling and you can't seem to increase most lifts
•You are experiencing aches, sprains, tendinitis, etc.
•You train regularly
Note that last point again: If you train regularly, then you should de-load regularly as well. In fact, a regularly scheduled de-load should come before you start exhibiting any of these symptoms.


How to De-Load:

A de-load is a planned reduction in either volume or intensity, usually a week long (or one training cycle of your split). How you do it is up to you. The main thing is to back off your total effort to about 50-60% of what you would do during a normal training week. A few examples of how to train during a de-load week:

•Do your normal routine and normal volume (sets & reps) but reduce the weight you use to about 50-60% of what you normally work out with for each exercise.
•Use the same weight as you normally would, but drop your number of total volume (sets x reps) to 50-60% of your normal volume. (Note that you should stick to an 8+ rep scheme here.)
•Train muscle groups that normally don't get a lot of attention
•Use light weight and focus on refining your form and technique
•Decrease your lifting and increase your cardio

... or any combination of the above. The main thing is to make sure that at the end of the workout you still have a decent amount of "gas in the tank". Personally, I prefer to de-load by dropping my weights to 50-60% of what I normally use, stick with the same volume, and focus on refining my form, technique, and mind-muscle connection.

If you want, you can even just take a week off entirely. If you know you are going to be on vacation, for example, just plan your training around it so that you can use that time as a de-load period. You'll be training smart and not feel the need to try to find some way to work out when the rest of your family is relaxing.


Summary:

The goal of a de-load is to allow you to become stronger, faster, and bigger, by incorporating a planned "active recovery" phase into your normal workout program. If you do it correctly, you should be able to make more gains that you would without de-loading, reduce your risk of injury, give yourself a mental break, preemptively address hidden recovery issues.

Ah deload. Haven't really discussed it much on here. Good info.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

sixisCHANGEDjk

Great stuff, thanks.

Ezwoldo

Im just repying to have a good read later

Denjo060

What a great thread thanks so much :drinker: