Starvatio mode, excerices cals ect...

mmapags

I am a firm believer in doing what works for YOU. If it works and you are healthy, great. If it doesn't, try something different. I would much rather listen to a dr and professional nutritionist than get caught up in the ridiculous never-ending argument on here between people who are different genders, ages, weight, etc than you are.

Thanks for sharing the info you found out from your doctor. It is apparently what he feels is best for YOU, in YOUR situation. Don't let a few rude people that insist on assuming everyone who doesn't think the same way they do are idiots, keep you from attaining your goals. Seriously, if they had all the answers for everyone, they wouldn't still be trying to lose weight, and would be millionaires from selling their 'secrets'.

Common sense, moderation, perseverance, and patience.

Doctors in the US can be one of the worst sources for nutritional info. A reputable nutritionist would not endorse this kind of unhealthy nonsense but hey, you go right ahead and think this is common sense.

ammadove

I am glad you sought professional advice on your diet. Information is confusing and it's nice to have everything explained by someone you trust.
Right before reading your post I decided to post my daily exercise at the end of the day so I wouldn't be tempted to eat more if I wasn't still hungry.
We'll see how this works
And a "thank you" to you all. You inspire me to keep with it. Bess

Courtney_7790

I am a firm believer in doing what works for YOU. If it works and you are healthy, great. If it doesn't, try something different. I would much rather listen to a dr and professional nutritionist than get caught up in the ridiculous never-ending argument on here between people who are different genders, ages, weight, etc than you are.

Thanks for sharing the info you found out from your doctor. It is apparently what he feels is best for YOU, in YOUR situation. Don't let a few rude people that insist on assuming everyone who doesn't think the same way they do are idiots, keep you from attaining your goals. Seriously, if they had all the answers for everyone, they wouldn't still be trying to lose weight, and would be millionaires from selling their 'secrets'.

Common sense, moderation, perseverance, and patience.

Doctors in the US can be one of the worst sources for nutritional info. A reputable nutritionist would not endorse this kind of unhealthy nonsense but hey, you go right ahead and think this is common sense.

She is a very reputable nutritionist and i think it would be a much more intelligent descion for someone to listen to a dr (not even saying it has to be my dr) then a chef of a catering company. im not trying to be rude, but I didnt ask for what YOUR negative thoughts were, i simply shared information from what i learned today.

SHBoss1673

The problem is you asked the wrong questions.

equating starvation mode to 1200 calories is wrong. One has nothing to do with the other.

1200 calories is a generic number, it was used as an average based on a study done on women world wide by the World Health Organization. the results of the study were basically this: On average, to avoid micro-nutrient deficiencies, women needed an average MINIMUM of 1200 calories. That was based on women tested throughout the world of all different types, sizes and ages, and it was for the purposes of micro-nutrient needs, NOT calories (I.E. vitamins, minerals...etc.). also, notice two very important terms, 1) average, meaning not everyone will conform to this baseline, and 2) MINIMUM, I.E. this was the minimum amount needed for women to not become nutrient deficient. This nutritionist should have immediately told you all this the minute you mentioned 1200 calories.

Also, eating exercise calories is specific to My Fitness Pal, so someone not referring to that program, would have no idea of either how it works, or whether it's a good idea.

What you should have asked was this:

Is there a point at which if I eat to few calories over the course of several days to several weeks, that my body will recognize this and reduce my metabolic rate to compensate and increase lipogenesys (fat storage from FFA's in the blood), while simultaneously changing the way the body uses calories? because that's what happens (this has been proven over and over in clinical studies). This is what is commonly referred to "starvation mode" or the famine response.

AND

If I set a calorie deficit, then work out and then eat enough extra calories to keep that deficit intact, is that a good plan?
Because this is what "eating exercise calories" means to non-MFP'ers

I'll bet you would get different answers if you asked these questions.

LadyIvysMom

Congrats on failing to understand even the very basic science behind the subject and posting a completely uninformed and wrong summary.

Are you a doctor? Because OP was quoting a doctor.

I agree with everything the OP doctor said.

Starvation mode is a ridiculous myth and numerous studies have been done to show that it only really happens in extreme situations and/or EDs. Here's one such study:

http://fitnessblackbook.com/main/starvation-mode-why-you-probably-never-need-to-worry-about-it/

There is no reason to stuff yourself and make yourself sick eating back exercise cals either, as someone else mentioned. If I tried to eat back all my exercise cals, I'd probably throw up from being so full.

Everyone should really just use common sense when they eat and exercise. If you are truly hungry (not just bored, craving a flavor etc.) then eat something sensible, if you eat an unhealthy meal or snack once in a while don't freak out-- just move on and if you are finding you don't have enough energy to walk around or function, then eat more and/or see a doctor.

His post was dead on and people netting only 600 calories a day shouldn't be giving advice regarding common sense. You might try using some in regard to your nutritoin.

I meet all of my goals for nutrients per day, every day, thanks.

LOL! So sorry. I didn't realize you were only 3' 5". Carry on.

I think you are confusing nutrients with calories.

Calories alone do not give you nutrition. There is plenty of crap out there people eat that is high in calories and has no nutrition in it whatsoever.

If you are eating a lot of low calorie foods like fruit, veggies, lean protien etc. and taking daily vitamins, meeting your nutritional goals is not that hard.

_stephanie0

Do you know why there's no literature on ****ing 'Starvation Mode'? Because that is a ridiculous scare-tactic name given to the very real effects of suppressed metabolism as a result of chronic undereating. Do you know why you eat your exercise calories back? To avoid stressing your body any more than it already is on a diet, reduce the rate of cortisol production versus not eating them. Do you know why people lose weight so fast eating hardly anything to start with? Because your glycogen stores empty out very quickly, and if you keep it up, you start losing lean mass ALONG with fat which can be avoided if you eat at a more sensible deficit.

Where do I get my information? Oh I don't know. Maybe all the MMA fighters and coaches I spend my time around in the gym. Maybe the Boxing coaches. Hell, maybe even the powerlifters at a club I know of. Maybe it's the personal trainers I used to work with, or the ex-russian military and internationally competitive swimming coaches I worked with. Maybe from the fact I am a nationally certified Swimming Coach. Maybe from my friend Tony, who's a sprinter and only never competed in the Olympics because of a bad back.

But what the **** does it matter where I got it from? If you point your mouse to some reputable sources, the information is out there on the web for you ALL to read.

So how long have you been on MFP and how much have you lost?

You can see my start date. And not a pound. But, that's kind of the point of the plan I'm on. See, I don't give two flakes of **** what I weigh. My plan is a body recomposition, so I slowly lose fat whilst building lean mass. I've posted my progress pics on ocassion to the success stories forum that show the change in bodyfat. OMG YOU CANT DOE DAT ON A DEFECIT. Actually, yes, you can, if you're patient.

you're my favourite:flowerforyou:

Helloitsdan

You know how many of the forum topics come and go?
When you lose your lean mass and fail at your diet, fire your doctor and get with the program.
Read the stickies on the forums cause you are doing it wrong.

Your numbers are subject to your age, height, weight, body fat% and activity.

All the fictitios people below work out 3x a week.
Lets crunch actual numbers!

SuzieQ at age 30 5'5" 230lbs 50% body fat, big girl right?
She metabolizes fat best netting 1800 cals a day.

Lets do another shall we?

Jenny2485 at age 21 5'2" 145lbs 30% body fat, not too shabby right?
She metabolizes fat best at 1700calories a day.

Marge2121 at age 70 5'0" 120lbs 17% body fat, lil old woman!
Metabolizes fat best at 1700 calories.

Am I making a point?

Your doctor is flawed in thinking that he/she is doing you a favor by restricting calories and giving you the false sense of security that youll lose the fat in no time and have no physical repercussions in the future.
In fact youll have more reason to store fat, lose lean mass, drop essential hormones too low, lower your metabolism, lower lipolysis and bring fat loss to a crawl.
If you workout on top of that and not eat back the cals then youll be digging an even deeper hole.
If you like an easier softer way of losing fat and eating just about anything you like in moderation....
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/654536-in-place-of-a-road-map-2-0-revised-7-2-12

psuLemon

Another thing to consider is where the energy is coming from.... are you getting your fuel from food or your muscles? It is very common in low calorie diets that people lose a significant of weight from muscle. Less muscle means a slower metabolism, less insulin control, a weaker immune system, and more prone to injury as your body has to rely on joints and ligaments. This is why the girl next to me at a whopping 105 lbs soaking wet has type 2 diabetes.

From a person standpoint, no one on here will see starvation mode. But the body does have hormonal responses designed to hold onto body fat. This is why your body will convert the amino acids from your lean body mass to create energy and maintain your basic metabolic functions.

My bigger question is, why would you want to eat less than 1200 calories a day? Wouldnt you rather have the ability to eat 2000 calories every day without gaining weight and in fact still lose? Every active women I know can eat around 1700+. I am proud I can eat over 3000 calories without gaining weight. So when I splurge it wont' affect me.

Now if you lose a lot of LBM during your weight loss and suppress your metabolic rate, then guess what happens when you eat normal or splurge... thats right gain fat.

Honestly, if you want to eat 1200 calories, thats cool on you... but I bet it would be difficult to show me an athletic looking person that only eats 1200 calories.

BTW a good study on meal frequency. Also, if meal timing matter than interim fasting would not work... but it does.. Meal timing has ZERO affect on weight loss.. Only hunger signals and decisions.



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19943985

californiagirl2012

This is a very nice and thoughtful post.

1200 is a silly number because it depends on the persons size or RMR. 1200 is barely below my RMR.

Here is one of my favorite quotes about determining your calories:

We’ve been trying to figure out an exact NUMBER of calories that everyone should be eating, without recognizing that everyone is slightly different. In truth, the calories aren’t the end game. Your body is. So the EXACT amount of Calories that are right for you is the EXACT amount that will allow you to maintain your ideal bodyweight no matter what some calculator or chart says.

In other words, an online calculator might tell you that you need to eat 2,500 calories
per day to maintain your ideal bodyweight. But the only way to know for sure if this is
the right amount for you is to test it out. If you gain weight or can’t lose weight eating
that much, then you know you need to eat less to lose weight no matter how many
calculators and text books say otherwise.

This doesn’t mean your metabolism is broken, it just means the estimate of your needs
was just a bit off.

-John Barban

On the skipping breakfast or any meal I must disagree. Our bodies are designed to go for long periods of time without eating and no ill effects (other than you feel hunger). Humans did this all the time when we were hunter gatherers and humans have fasted for spiritual reasons since the beginning.

A lot of research has been done on this recently. If you search on the internet for "Intermittent fasting" you will find it. Basically it's just taking a break from eating. You can choose the time period that works for you. It is not starve then binge, it is eat normal meals, take a break from eating, eat normal meals, take a break from eating.

Now that I have lost 60 lbs skipping whatever meals I want, fasting, and eating normal healthy meals, I will never ever again let anyone tell me when to eat or how much to eat. I OWN IT. I OWN MY BODY. I will eat birthday cake only when I decide to eat birthday cake. I will go all day without eating if I want to. I will skip any meal I want. I am in control now.

Helloitsdan

Another thing to consider is where the energy is coming from.... are you getting your fuel from food or your muscles? It is very common in low calorie diets that people lose a significant of weight from muscle. Less muscle means a slower metabolism, less insulin control, a weaker immune system, and more prone to injury as your body has to rely on joints and ligaments. This is why the girl next to me at a whopping 105 lbs soaking wet has type 2 diabetes.

From a person standpoint, no one on here will see starvation mode. But the body does have hormonal responses designed to hold onto body fat. This is why your body will convert the amino acids from your lean body mass to create energy and maintain your basic metabolic functions.

My bigger question is, why would you want to eat less than 1200 calories a day? Wouldnt you rather have the ability to eat 2000 calories every day without gaining weight and in fact still lose? Every active women I know can eat around 1700+. I am proud I can eat over 3000 calories without gaining weight. So when I splurge it wont' affect me.

Now if you lose a lot of LBM during your weight loss and suppress your metabolic rate, then guess what happens when you eat normal or splurge... thats right gain fat.

Honestly, if you want to eat 1200 calories, thats cool on you... but I bet it would be difficult to show me an athletic looking person that only eats 1200 calories.

BTW a good study on meal frequency. Also, if meal timing matter than interim fasting would not work... but it does.. Meal timing has ZERO affect on weight loss.. Only hunger signals and decisions.



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19943985

As for the second part PSU I think the reasons why people feel the need to eat low cals falls into a few different categories.
1) education on physiology
They don't understand how food/nutrition works.
2) upbringing
They were taught as children that food makes you fat.
3) they just don't care
Place head in hole in ground and hope for the best.

SHBoss1673

good stuff fellas, here's a GREAT article from a guy that I truly respect more than just about anyone in the fitness and nutrition community, Steve Troutman is a member here, and much like me, isn't here to lose weight or get healthy(any more, in my case) but here to mentor and motivate others because we have a passion for helping others. Without further ado, please read this.

http://body-improvements.com/resources/eat/#starvationmode

steve's profile on MFP is
stroutman81

I don't think he'd mind me mentioning him on here, and if you have questions for him, I'm sure he'd be happy to receive a PM from you. Or if you prefer, you can PM myself and I'll help the best I can. Our methods and thought processes line up in most area's anyway, although he does this on a more professional basis than I do (this is his full time gig, I only train part time), so in some cases I'll defer to him on a question.

mmapags

Another thing to consider is where the energy is coming from.... are you getting your fuel from food or your muscles? It is very common in low calorie diets that people lose a significant of weight from muscle. Less muscle means a slower metabolism, less insulin control, a weaker immune system, and more prone to injury as your body has to rely on joints and ligaments. This is why the girl next to me at a whopping 105 lbs soaking wet has type 2 diabetes.

From a person standpoint, no one on here will see starvation mode. But the body does have hormonal responses designed to hold onto body fat. This is why your body will convert the amino acids from your lean body mass to create energy and maintain your basic metabolic functions.

My bigger question is, why would you want to eat less than 1200 calories a day? Wouldnt you rather have the ability to eat 2000 calories every day without gaining weight and in fact still lose? Every active women I know can eat around 1700+. I am proud I can eat over 3000 calories without gaining weight. So when I splurge it wont' affect me.

Now if you lose a lot of LBM during your weight loss and suppress your metabolic rate, then guess what happens when you eat normal or splurge... thats right gain fat.

Honestly, if you want to eat 1200 calories, thats cool on you... but I bet it would be difficult to show me an athletic looking person that only eats 1200 calories.

BTW a good study on meal frequency. Also, if meal timing matter than interim fasting would not work... but it does.. Meal timing has ZERO affect on weight loss.. Only hunger signals and decisions.



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19943985

Awesome post! As always.

drmerc

Do you know why there's no literature on ****ing 'Starvation Mode'? Because that is a ridiculous scare-tactic name given to the very real effects of suppressed metabolism as a result of chronic undereating. Do you know why you eat your exercise calories back? To avoid stressing your body any more than it already is on a diet, reduce the rate of cortisol production versus not eating them. Do you know why people lose weight so fast eating hardly anything to start with? Because your glycogen stores empty out very quickly, and if you keep it up, you start losing lean mass ALONG with fat which can be avoided if you eat at a more sensible deficit.

Where do I get my information? Oh I don't know. Maybe all the MMA fighters and coaches I spend my time around in the gym. Maybe the Boxing coaches. Hell, maybe even the powerlifters at a club I know of. Maybe it's the personal trainers I used to work with, or the ex-russian military and internationally competitive swimming coaches I worked with. Maybe from the fact I am a nationally certified Swimming Coach. Maybe from my friend Tony, who's a sprinter and only never competed in the Olympics because of a bad back.

But what the **** does it matter where I got it from? If you point your mouse to some reputable sources, the information is out there on the web for you ALL to read.

So how long have you been on MFP and how much have you lost?

You can see my start date. And not a pound. But, that's kind of the point of the plan I'm on. See, I don't give two flakes of **** what I weigh. My plan is a body recomposition, so I slowly lose fat whilst building lean mass. I've posted my progress pics on ocassion to the success stories forum that show the change in bodyfat. OMG YOU CANT DOE DAT ON A DEFECIT. Actually, yes, you can, if you're patient.

gabriellejayde

I noticed so much conflicting information on here about weather or not to eat excericise calories, and about not eating less then 1200 and starvation mode, i also hear about when and how much you need to be eating, So i thought instead of just saying anymore of what i know from research and my experience i would ask a professional I had a dr appt today and in her office she has the number 1 nutritionist and weight loss expert in our state!

Starvation mode- She says myth your body doesnt just start storing fat and stop losing weight if you get less then 1200 calories a day, 1200 calories is an ideal minimum of what your body will need for normal function therefore you should aim for about there, however if you cannot eat that much everyday it will not cause you to gain weight, or lose then gain it all back. It needs to be something you can potientally stick to and then you will keep it off. An example she has a patient who is not very active and a very small frame she eats when she is hungry and she gets between 900-1100 calories at least 4 days a week she has never struggled to keep the weight of she lost. (not to say you should try to eat less then 1200, That plan my backfire because alot of people can never stick to less then 1200)

Eating back excerise calories- Its a new thing and there is no need to manage that...and trying to eat back every excerise calorie you burn is silly, if your working out very hard and your still hungry have you eat you alloted calories then you could have an additional healthy snack. But it is not a must. She also mentioned that many people focus so much on that they do not lose weight because its so easy to over estimate what you are doing. The only time you really need to eat back any excericise calories is if you are doing extremley vigerous working out.

Metabolism- Eating smaller meals more frequently will help your metabolism eventually. However thats not to say your metabolsim is going to stop just because you not hungry there is no magic number. Skipping meals is never ideal and you should aim to eat small meals often.

Eating breakfast- I know this was a topic last night and i posted what i knew to be true so i asked my dr I was right about somethings but not everything...

Breakfast is important and you should not skip it, Skipping breakfast is one of the most common reasons for obesity in adulthood, and you need food to fuel your brain. However skipping breakfast one day is not going to do anything to your metabolsim if you dont like breakfast you should still try to eat some in the morning even if you split it into 2 snacks instead of a meal.



I know some of you will disagree, and i respect that you all know your bodies, Im just posting this for people who wont get that chance to talk with a professional and have these questions

Thank you for posting this. I have known all of this for years and it drives me nuts to see people who really have no idea, adamantly tell people the wrong information.

UsedToBeHusky

I'm just not even going to...

gabriellejayde

Congrats on failing to understand even the very basic science behind the subject and posting a completely uninformed and wrong summary.

you should call her doctor and nutritionist and tell them your credentials.

zyxst

Breakfast is important and you should not skip it, Skipping breakfast is one of the most common reasons for obesity in adulthood, and you need food to fuel your brain. However skipping breakfast one day is not going to do anything to your metabolsim if you dont like breakfast you should still try to eat some in the morning even if you split it into 2 snacks instead of a meal.

Wow, good to know I'm obese because I didn't eat breakfast. :huh:

UsedToBeHusky

I noticed so much conflicting information on here about weather or not to eat excericise calories, and about not eating less then 1200 and starvation mode, i also hear about when and how much you need to be eating, So i thought instead of just saying anymore of what i know from research and my experience i would ask a professional I had a dr appt today and in her office she has the number 1 nutritionist and weight loss expert in our state!

Starvation mode- She says myth your body doesnt just start storing fat and stop losing weight if you get less then 1200 calories a day, 1200 calories is an ideal minimum of what your body will need for normal function therefore you should aim for about there, however if you cannot eat that much everyday it will not cause you to gain weight, or lose then gain it all back. It needs to be something you can potientally stick to and then you will keep it off. An example she has a patient who is not very active and a very small frame she eats when she is hungry and she gets between 900-1100 calories at least 4 days a week she has never struggled to keep the weight of she lost. (not to say you should try to eat less then 1200, That plan my backfire because alot of people can never stick to less then 1200)

Eating back excerise calories- Its a new thing and there is no need to manage that...and trying to eat back every excerise calorie you burn is silly, if your working out very hard and your still hungry have you eat you alloted calories then you could have an additional healthy snack. But it is not a must. She also mentioned that many people focus so much on that they do not lose weight because its so easy to over estimate what you are doing. The only time you really need to eat back any excericise calories is if you are doing extremley vigerous working out.

Metabolism- Eating smaller meals more frequently will help your metabolism eventually. However thats not to say your metabolsim is going to stop just because you not hungry there is no magic number. Skipping meals is never ideal and you should aim to eat small meals often.

Eating breakfast- I know this was a topic last night and i posted what i knew to be true so i asked my dr I was right about somethings but not everything...

Breakfast is important and you should not skip it, Skipping breakfast is one of the most common reasons for obesity in adulthood, and you need food to fuel your brain. However skipping breakfast one day is not going to do anything to your metabolsim if you dont like breakfast you should still try to eat some in the morning even if you split it into 2 snacks instead of a meal.



I know some of you will disagree, and i respect that you all know your bodies, Im just posting this for people who wont get that chance to talk with a professional and have these questions

Thank you for posting this. I have known all of this for years and it drives me nuts to see people who really have no idea, adamantly tell people the wrong information.

There are studies that refute most of this. Doctors and nutritionists are often not very well read... but whatever.

It is not even worth my energy anymore!

ironanimal

Congrats on failing to understand even the very basic science behind the subject and posting a completely uninformed and wrong summary.

you should call her doctor and nutritionist and tell them your credentials.

I'm just not even going to...

IronPlayground

Eating breakfast- I know this was a topic last night and i posted what i knew to be true so i asked my dr I was right about somethings but not everything...

Breakfast is important and you should not skip it, Skipping breakfast is one of the most common reasons for obesity in adulthood, and you need food to fuel your brain. However skipping breakfast one day is not going to do anything to your metabolsim if you dont like breakfast you should still try to eat some in the morning even if you split it into 2 snacks instead of a meal.

Adult obesity is caused by the overconsumption of food in general regardless of when you are eating it. I love eating in the morning, but I don't do it for the reason listed above. Eating early in the morning is a personal choice and won't have any implications on weight loss as long as you are maintaining a caloric deficit at the end of the day.