Starvatio mode, excerices cals ect...

SHBoss1673

good stuff fellas, here's a GREAT article from a guy that I truly respect more than just about anyone in the fitness and nutrition community, Steve Troutman is a member here, and much like me, isn't here to lose weight or get healthy(any more, in my case) but here to mentor and motivate others because we have a passion for helping others. Without further ado, please read this.

http://body-improvements.com/resources/eat/#starvationmode

steve's profile on MFP is
stroutman81

I don't think he'd mind me mentioning him on here, and if you have questions for him, I'm sure he'd be happy to receive a PM from you. Or if you prefer, you can PM myself and I'll help the best I can. Our methods and thought processes line up in most area's anyway, although he does this on a more professional basis than I do (this is his full time gig, I only train part time), so in some cases I'll defer to him on a question.

mmapags

Another thing to consider is where the energy is coming from.... are you getting your fuel from food or your muscles? It is very common in low calorie diets that people lose a significant of weight from muscle. Less muscle means a slower metabolism, less insulin control, a weaker immune system, and more prone to injury as your body has to rely on joints and ligaments. This is why the girl next to me at a whopping 105 lbs soaking wet has type 2 diabetes.

From a person standpoint, no one on here will see starvation mode. But the body does have hormonal responses designed to hold onto body fat. This is why your body will convert the amino acids from your lean body mass to create energy and maintain your basic metabolic functions.

My bigger question is, why would you want to eat less than 1200 calories a day? Wouldnt you rather have the ability to eat 2000 calories every day without gaining weight and in fact still lose? Every active women I know can eat around 1700+. I am proud I can eat over 3000 calories without gaining weight. So when I splurge it wont' affect me.

Now if you lose a lot of LBM during your weight loss and suppress your metabolic rate, then guess what happens when you eat normal or splurge... thats right gain fat.

Honestly, if you want to eat 1200 calories, thats cool on you... but I bet it would be difficult to show me an athletic looking person that only eats 1200 calories.

BTW a good study on meal frequency. Also, if meal timing matter than interim fasting would not work... but it does.. Meal timing has ZERO affect on weight loss.. Only hunger signals and decisions.



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19943985

Awesome post! As always.

drmerc

Do you know why there's no literature on ****ing 'Starvation Mode'? Because that is a ridiculous scare-tactic name given to the very real effects of suppressed metabolism as a result of chronic undereating. Do you know why you eat your exercise calories back? To avoid stressing your body any more than it already is on a diet, reduce the rate of cortisol production versus not eating them. Do you know why people lose weight so fast eating hardly anything to start with? Because your glycogen stores empty out very quickly, and if you keep it up, you start losing lean mass ALONG with fat which can be avoided if you eat at a more sensible deficit.

Where do I get my information? Oh I don't know. Maybe all the MMA fighters and coaches I spend my time around in the gym. Maybe the Boxing coaches. Hell, maybe even the powerlifters at a club I know of. Maybe it's the personal trainers I used to work with, or the ex-russian military and internationally competitive swimming coaches I worked with. Maybe from the fact I am a nationally certified Swimming Coach. Maybe from my friend Tony, who's a sprinter and only never competed in the Olympics because of a bad back.

But what the **** does it matter where I got it from? If you point your mouse to some reputable sources, the information is out there on the web for you ALL to read.

So how long have you been on MFP and how much have you lost?

You can see my start date. And not a pound. But, that's kind of the point of the plan I'm on. See, I don't give two flakes of **** what I weigh. My plan is a body recomposition, so I slowly lose fat whilst building lean mass. I've posted my progress pics on ocassion to the success stories forum that show the change in bodyfat. OMG YOU CANT DOE DAT ON A DEFECIT. Actually, yes, you can, if you're patient.

gabriellejayde

I noticed so much conflicting information on here about weather or not to eat excericise calories, and about not eating less then 1200 and starvation mode, i also hear about when and how much you need to be eating, So i thought instead of just saying anymore of what i know from research and my experience i would ask a professional I had a dr appt today and in her office she has the number 1 nutritionist and weight loss expert in our state!

Starvation mode- She says myth your body doesnt just start storing fat and stop losing weight if you get less then 1200 calories a day, 1200 calories is an ideal minimum of what your body will need for normal function therefore you should aim for about there, however if you cannot eat that much everyday it will not cause you to gain weight, or lose then gain it all back. It needs to be something you can potientally stick to and then you will keep it off. An example she has a patient who is not very active and a very small frame she eats when she is hungry and she gets between 900-1100 calories at least 4 days a week she has never struggled to keep the weight of she lost. (not to say you should try to eat less then 1200, That plan my backfire because alot of people can never stick to less then 1200)

Eating back excerise calories- Its a new thing and there is no need to manage that...and trying to eat back every excerise calorie you burn is silly, if your working out very hard and your still hungry have you eat you alloted calories then you could have an additional healthy snack. But it is not a must. She also mentioned that many people focus so much on that they do not lose weight because its so easy to over estimate what you are doing. The only time you really need to eat back any excericise calories is if you are doing extremley vigerous working out.

Metabolism- Eating smaller meals more frequently will help your metabolism eventually. However thats not to say your metabolsim is going to stop just because you not hungry there is no magic number. Skipping meals is never ideal and you should aim to eat small meals often.

Eating breakfast- I know this was a topic last night and i posted what i knew to be true so i asked my dr I was right about somethings but not everything...

Breakfast is important and you should not skip it, Skipping breakfast is one of the most common reasons for obesity in adulthood, and you need food to fuel your brain. However skipping breakfast one day is not going to do anything to your metabolsim if you dont like breakfast you should still try to eat some in the morning even if you split it into 2 snacks instead of a meal.



I know some of you will disagree, and i respect that you all know your bodies, Im just posting this for people who wont get that chance to talk with a professional and have these questions

Thank you for posting this. I have known all of this for years and it drives me nuts to see people who really have no idea, adamantly tell people the wrong information.

UsedToBeHusky

I'm just not even going to...

gabriellejayde

Congrats on failing to understand even the very basic science behind the subject and posting a completely uninformed and wrong summary.

you should call her doctor and nutritionist and tell them your credentials.

zyxst

Breakfast is important and you should not skip it, Skipping breakfast is one of the most common reasons for obesity in adulthood, and you need food to fuel your brain. However skipping breakfast one day is not going to do anything to your metabolsim if you dont like breakfast you should still try to eat some in the morning even if you split it into 2 snacks instead of a meal.

Wow, good to know I'm obese because I didn't eat breakfast. :huh:

UsedToBeHusky

I noticed so much conflicting information on here about weather or not to eat excericise calories, and about not eating less then 1200 and starvation mode, i also hear about when and how much you need to be eating, So i thought instead of just saying anymore of what i know from research and my experience i would ask a professional I had a dr appt today and in her office she has the number 1 nutritionist and weight loss expert in our state!

Starvation mode- She says myth your body doesnt just start storing fat and stop losing weight if you get less then 1200 calories a day, 1200 calories is an ideal minimum of what your body will need for normal function therefore you should aim for about there, however if you cannot eat that much everyday it will not cause you to gain weight, or lose then gain it all back. It needs to be something you can potientally stick to and then you will keep it off. An example she has a patient who is not very active and a very small frame she eats when she is hungry and she gets between 900-1100 calories at least 4 days a week she has never struggled to keep the weight of she lost. (not to say you should try to eat less then 1200, That plan my backfire because alot of people can never stick to less then 1200)

Eating back excerise calories- Its a new thing and there is no need to manage that...and trying to eat back every excerise calorie you burn is silly, if your working out very hard and your still hungry have you eat you alloted calories then you could have an additional healthy snack. But it is not a must. She also mentioned that many people focus so much on that they do not lose weight because its so easy to over estimate what you are doing. The only time you really need to eat back any excericise calories is if you are doing extremley vigerous working out.

Metabolism- Eating smaller meals more frequently will help your metabolism eventually. However thats not to say your metabolsim is going to stop just because you not hungry there is no magic number. Skipping meals is never ideal and you should aim to eat small meals often.

Eating breakfast- I know this was a topic last night and i posted what i knew to be true so i asked my dr I was right about somethings but not everything...

Breakfast is important and you should not skip it, Skipping breakfast is one of the most common reasons for obesity in adulthood, and you need food to fuel your brain. However skipping breakfast one day is not going to do anything to your metabolsim if you dont like breakfast you should still try to eat some in the morning even if you split it into 2 snacks instead of a meal.



I know some of you will disagree, and i respect that you all know your bodies, Im just posting this for people who wont get that chance to talk with a professional and have these questions

Thank you for posting this. I have known all of this for years and it drives me nuts to see people who really have no idea, adamantly tell people the wrong information.

There are studies that refute most of this. Doctors and nutritionists are often not very well read... but whatever.

It is not even worth my energy anymore!

ironanimal

Congrats on failing to understand even the very basic science behind the subject and posting a completely uninformed and wrong summary.

you should call her doctor and nutritionist and tell them your credentials.

I'm just not even going to...

IronPlayground

Eating breakfast- I know this was a topic last night and i posted what i knew to be true so i asked my dr I was right about somethings but not everything...

Breakfast is important and you should not skip it, Skipping breakfast is one of the most common reasons for obesity in adulthood, and you need food to fuel your brain. However skipping breakfast one day is not going to do anything to your metabolsim if you dont like breakfast you should still try to eat some in the morning even if you split it into 2 snacks instead of a meal.

Adult obesity is caused by the overconsumption of food in general regardless of when you are eating it. I love eating in the morning, but I don't do it for the reason listed above. Eating early in the morning is a personal choice and won't have any implications on weight loss as long as you are maintaining a caloric deficit at the end of the day.

jlbeals

Not to add fuel to the fire on anything, just thought I'd throw out that I had an appointment with a registered dietitian on Monday and she was appalled at the idea that I'd been eating 1200 cals + some exercise cals for a month . According to the various tests I took (including one where I had to breathe into a metabolic analyzer machine for 10-minutes), my "weight loss range" is approximately 1700-1800 calories/day for my current state, and I'm not supposed to eat less than that, even on my rest day when I don't workout.

I can't speak to the science behind those assumptions, and I've got another appointment on Oct. 1 to check in and see if she was right and things are moving in a positive direction after I start eating more, but just pointing out that not all experts/doctors agree on this topic either.

gabriellejayde

Congrats on failing to understand even the very basic science behind the subject and posting a completely uninformed and wrong summary.

you should call her doctor and nutritionist and tell them your credentials.

I'm just not even going to...

by "credentials", I mean, "all your friends at the gym".
btw, I used to be a powerlifter. I held the ny state record for a short time in bench press. Now you know another powerlifter.
people who are competeting in athletics or are actively building a lot of muscle or strength do need to eat more. THe average overweight person who wants to get thinner does not. getting advice from weightlifters is pointless- their goals are to make weightclass and win competitions, not fit into smaller jeans.

deniseblossoms

It makes sense to me. Seems someone is taking this a little too personally/:

UsedToBeHusky

Congrats on failing to understand even the very basic science behind the subject and posting a completely uninformed and wrong summary.

you should call her doctor and nutritionist and tell them your credentials.

I'm just not even going to...

by "credentials", I mean, "all your friends at the gym".
btw, I used to be a powerlifter. I held the ny state record for a short time in bench press. Now you know another powerlifter.
people who are competeting in athletics or are actively building a lot of muscle or strength do need to eat more. THe average overweight person who wants to get thinner does not. getting advice from weightlifters is pointless- their goals are to make weightclass and win competitions, not fit into smaller jeans.

Oh... you are so right. I've been listening to those know-it-all "weight-lifters" and I haven't lost but 7 lbs in 9 months.

But I went from a size 20 to a size 14 in that time too... so...

ironanimal

by "credentials", I mean, "all your friends at the gym".
btw, I used to be a powerlifter. I held the ny state record for a short time in bench press. Now you know another powerlifter.
people who are competeting in athletics or are actively building a lot of muscle or strength do need to eat more. THe average overweight person who wants to get thinner does not. getting advice from weightlifters is pointless- their goals are to make weightclass and win competitions, not fit into smaller jeans.

My contention with all this garbage is because it disregards WHERE that weightloss comes from entirely and doesn't look at the process as a long term, sustainable thing.

And good to see you could gloss over my own qualifications, which did include appropriate nutrition for all age groups and the importance of eating a reasonable amount of food when doing any kind of regular exercise.

zaph0d

Pretty much bad info across the board here. Well done.

yoovie

brissell

Agree. I wish people would just present what they know and then debate points to determine facts. No need to get personal.

We can all learn from each other. Not all doctors are right, not all gym buddies are right. Not all methods work for all bodies.

One thing I do know that we ALL have in common is trying to figure out the "science" of how our bodies work and filter through the false information.

Bob314159

There is a big difference between someone only eating 800 calories a day while doing a serious workout and really burning up 2000 calories a day and most overweight people.

Telling the average overweight person who goes to the gym and overreports the actual workout calorie deficit and has 250 calories left at the end of the day that if he/she does not eat another 250 of food, then they will go into starvation mode and gain weight is not a nice thing.

SHBoss1673

There is a big difference between someone only eating 800 calories a day while doing a serious workout and really burning up 2000 calories a day and most overweight people.

Telling the average overweight person who goes to the gym and overreports the actual workout calorie deficit and has 250 calories left at the end of the day that if he/she does not eat another 250 of food, then they will go into starvation mode and gain weight is not a nice thing.

and here is the crux of the argument. So what your saying is, it's not that you disagree with the idea of starvation mode, it's that people on here use it wrong. Which I completely agree with in many respects. People throw out the term far to often on here with no justification.

If someone plateaus, your first comment shouldn't be "you're not eating enough". or "You're in starvation mode."
Your first comment should be, you should probably go over all your numbers and make sure you're reporting everything right, and that you have the correct goal for your individual situation. That's what I do.

spinfrost

Sadly this is the first topic i read on here, and like all forums everywhere it's a play ground of idiots. A simple topic on what some one asked a doctor and what their answers where.

agree or disagree, but no, we have to be rude and say the dumbest thing that comes to mind. take it or leave it really!

why can't you say i believe this to be true, or this works for me, or working with this person he said this and that. So that the information grows and the readers can add all together can make up their own mind as what will work or not.

ugh, forums they will never change....but i knew a guy, and worked with a girl, and called a friend that know some one, who eat that, and I'm a this....so I'M RIGHT! dorks

Rachel_Fontenot

Do you know why there's no literature on ****ing 'Starvation Mode'? Because that is a ridiculous scare-tactic name given to the very real effects of suppressed metabolism as a result of chronic undereating. Do you know why you eat your exercise calories back? To avoid stressing your body any more than it already is on a diet, reduce the rate of cortisol production versus not eating them. Do you know why people lose weight so fast eating hardly anything to start with? Because your glycogen stores empty out very quickly, and if you keep it up, you start losing lean mass ALONG with fat which can be avoided if you eat at a more sensible deficit.

Where do I get my information? Oh I don't know. Maybe all the MMA fighters and coaches I spend my time around in the gym. Maybe the Boxing coaches. Hell, maybe even the powerlifters at a club I know of. Maybe it's the personal trainers I used to work with, or the ex-russian military and internationally competitive swimming coaches I worked with. Maybe from the fact I am a nationally certified Swimming Coach. Maybe from my friend Tony, who's a sprinter and only never competed in the Olympics because of a bad back.

But what the **** does it matter where I got it from? If you point your mouse to some reputable sources, the information is out there on the web for you ALL to read.

So how long have you been on MFP and how much have you lost?

You can see my start date. And not a pound. But, that's kind of the point of the plan I'm on. See, I don't give two flakes of **** what I weigh. My plan is a body recomposition, so I slowly lose fat whilst building lean mass. I've posted my progress pics on ocassion to the success stories forum that show the change in bodyfat. OMG YOU CANT DOE DAT ON A DEFECIT. Actually, yes, you can, if you're patient.

This made me laugh. You are such a badass (sarcasm)

phoenixjane1

Thank you for posting this. I think everyone needs to back off and quit shouting off what they think they know because you looked it up on the internet or your weight lifting buddies told you its the best. At least she took the time to ask someone and not just spout of information she has heard from various internet sights and people. And if you actually read the post she says she is just sharing what she heard from a PROFESSIONAL not just someone who thinks they know it all. She never says only eat 800 calories she mentions that for most people 1200 is the min. but thats not everyone. She says breakfast is important but not going to make or break you. She says eating back your calories is fine however you dont need to make yourself eat if your not hungry. I find that she was very diplomatic is saying that she was just trying to share what she learned and every body is different...So if you have a different opionon then make you own post and share what you know...or maybe get a degree and then start telling everyone on hear that agrees they are wrong.

Capt_Apollo

yoovie

ironanimal

Do you know why there's no literature on ****ing 'Starvation Mode'? Because that is a ridiculous scare-tactic name given to the very real effects of suppressed metabolism as a result of chronic undereating. Do you know why you eat your exercise calories back? To avoid stressing your body any more than it already is on a diet, reduce the rate of cortisol production versus not eating them. Do you know why people lose weight so fast eating hardly anything to start with? Because your glycogen stores empty out very quickly, and if you keep it up, you start losing lean mass ALONG with fat which can be avoided if you eat at a more sensible deficit.

Where do I get my information? Oh I don't know. Maybe all the MMA fighters and coaches I spend my time around in the gym. Maybe the Boxing coaches. Hell, maybe even the powerlifters at a club I know of. Maybe it's the personal trainers I used to work with, or the ex-russian military and internationally competitive swimming coaches I worked with. Maybe from the fact I am a nationally certified Swimming Coach. Maybe from my friend Tony, who's a sprinter and only never competed in the Olympics because of a bad back.

But what the **** does it matter where I got it from? If you point your mouse to some reputable sources, the information is out there on the web for you ALL to read.

So how long have you been on MFP and how much have you lost?

You can see my start date. And not a pound. But, that's kind of the point of the plan I'm on. See, I don't give two flakes of **** what I weigh. My plan is a body recomposition, so I slowly lose fat whilst building lean mass. I've posted my progress pics on ocassion to the success stories forum that show the change in bodyfat. OMG YOU CANT DOE DAT ON A DEFECIT. Actually, yes, you can, if you're patient.

This made me laugh. You are such a badass (sarcasm)

Okay? I don't proclaim to be a badass or even exceptionally knowledgeable. I'm just sick of misinformation being spread all over the place and if I can make one impressionable young person stop and think when they read some of this crap, it's worth pissing every one off from time to time.

phoenixjane1

This made me laugh. You are such a badass (sarcasm)
[/quote]
Okay? I don't proclaim to be a badass or even exceptionally knowledgeable. I'm just sick of misinformation being spread all over the place and if I can make one impressionable young person stop and think when they read some of this crap, it's worth pissing every one off from time to time.
[/quote]


So wait because you get your info from ex military and mma fighters its right? I think maybe your the young impressionable one.
but i have bad news! my husbands and brother in law are in the military and they disagree with you....and my in laws own a crossfit gym i guess your whole world is going to change now because these people are the most realiable source to you! not some silly idiot who has degree and specializes in it....get a grip. just stop posting if you disagree and do what you want let her share what she knows because shockingly enough not everyone here wants to weigh 220 and be an mma fighter or whatever.

jofjltncb6

Sadly this is the first topic i read on here, and like all forums everywhere it's a play ground of idiots. A simple topic on what some one asked a doctor and what their answers where.

agree or disagree, but no, we have to be rude and say the dumbest thing that comes to mind. take it or leave it really!

why can't you say i believe this to be true, or this works for me, or working with this person he said this and that. So that the information grows and the readers can add all together can make up their own mind as what will work or not.

ugh, forums they will never change....but i knew a guy, and worked with a girl, and called a friend that know some one, who eat that, and I'm a this....so I'M RIGHT! dorks

Welcome to the MFP forums. You're going to fit right in.

Capt_Apollo

Sadly this is the first topic i read on here, and like all forums everywhere it's a play ground of idiots. A simple topic on what some one asked a doctor and what their answers where.

agree or disagree, but no, we have to be rude and say the dumbest thing that comes to mind. take it or leave it really!

why can't you say i believe this to be true, or this works for me, or working with this person he said this and that. So that the information grows and the readers can add all together can make up their own mind as what will work or not.

ugh, forums they will never change....but i knew a guy, and worked with a girl, and called a friend that know some one, who eat that, and I'm a this....so I'M RIGHT! dorks

i want you to have my children.

Rachel_Fontenot

Do you know why there's no literature on ****ing 'Starvation Mode'? Because that is a ridiculous scare-tactic name given to the very real effects of suppressed metabolism as a result of chronic undereating. Do you know why you eat your exercise calories back? To avoid stressing your body any more than it already is on a diet, reduce the rate of cortisol production versus not eating them. Do you know why people lose weight so fast eating hardly anything to start with? Because your glycogen stores empty out very quickly, and if you keep it up, you start losing lean mass ALONG with fat which can be avoided if you eat at a more sensible deficit.

Where do I get my information? Oh I don't know. Maybe all the MMA fighters and coaches I spend my time around in the gym. Maybe the Boxing coaches. Hell, maybe even the powerlifters at a club I know of. Maybe it's the personal trainers I used to work with, or the ex-russian military and internationally competitive swimming coaches I worked with. Maybe from the fact I am a nationally certified Swimming Coach. Maybe from my friend Tony, who's a sprinter and only never competed in the Olympics because of a bad back.

But what the **** does it matter where I got it from? If you point your mouse to some reputable sources, the information is out there on the web for you ALL to read.

So how long have you been on MFP and how much have you lost?

You can see my start date. And not a pound. But, that's kind of the point of the plan I'm on. See, I don't give two flakes of **** what I weigh. My plan is a body recomposition, so I slowly lose fat whilst building lean mass. I've posted my progress pics on ocassion to the success stories forum that show the change in bodyfat. OMG YOU CANT DOE DAT ON A DEFECIT. Actually, yes, you can, if you're patient.

This made me laugh. You are such a badass (sarcasm)

Okay? I don't proclaim to be a badass or even exceptionally knowledgeable. I'm just sick of misinformation being spread all over the place and if I can make one impressionable young person stop and think when they read some of this crap, it's worth pissing every one off from time to time.

So, if a "impressionable young person" spoke with his/her doctor and they provided the same guidance as Courtneys oringial post, what would you say? "Listen here kid. I spend my time in the gym with MMA fighters, boxing coaches, I know people at a powerlitfters club, I know personal trainers, ex-russian military and internationally competitive swimming coaches so disregard the doctor who is giving you specialized advice and listen to my advice based on my OWN experience while not taking into consideration your personal medical history."

Also, I honestly think you need to understand how freaking ridiculous your so called "creditentials" are. You sound like a cool guy.