Smokers – selfish scum or persecuted minority?
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What ever happen to personal choices and personal responsibility? Whatever happen to a property owners right to decide what they are going to allow on their own property?
Personal choice and responsibility ends when you do something in public that harms someone else, and 2nd hand smoke is more deadly than doing it yourself. But saying that...I do think that in bars you should be able to allow smoking. But any place that allows children, I think it should be banned.
I also live in Ohio, and it was the best thing that happened in my opinion.
personally I can't stand smoking and am quite happy that in Ohio you can no longer smoke in a restaurant or other public places.
as far as whether those that do smoke are selfish scum or a persecuted minority... I'm going with neither. What they do is their own choice. Provided it doesn't affect me; it's not my problem.0 -
What ever happen to personal choices and personal responsibility? Whatever happen to a property owners right to decide what they are going to allow on their own property?
I also live in Ohio, and it was the best thing that happened in my opinion.
Thats flat out wrong and may fronts. First, second hand smoke is no danger as many studies have proven. Second, the smoking ban in ohio has cause many businesses to shut down, how thats a good thing is beyond me.
If you choose to believe it or not, surely you would pay attention to your own body? I PERSONALLY believe it to be dangerous, but I am not a doctor or scientist so I can't say which results are right. BUT, when I go into a smoking establishment (or used to) or into a home with a chain smoker. Guess what happens? By the end of the night my throat hurts like hell. I am congested. My voice is raspy. My eyes hurt. I don't need a ****ing STUDY to tell me it IS or ISN'T dangerous. My own body is sending me clues "hey, dumbass, don't breathe that ****."
The problem with your idea that businesses have the right to decide if they allow smoking or not has at least one flaw. Where do you think smoke goes? Do you think it understands "oh, hey, THIS is a smoking establishment and I shall not cross it's borders. I shall not leave the 4 walls so as to ONLY AFFECT those that CHOOSE to be here." Of course not. The problem with smoke is it travels and lingers and gets in and out of cracks and crevices. And no, maybe the minute amount that "gets out" doesn't have a detrimental effect, but multiply that by the THOUSANDS of patrons you're going to have at your awesome, kick-*kitten* smoke-a-palooza and the thousands of exposures that a person would get over a lifetime and THEN there could be a problem. Compound that for the person who maybe has an illness or sensitivity and their life just got a whole lot sicker, and they didn't even have to go into your smokey restaurant.
So are smokers persecuted or selfish? A little of both. Just like the rest of us for a a lot of other reasons.
Edited, because my whole comment was in the middle of the quote the first time.0 -
I had a procedure done on Monday and the woman in the bed next to me had emphysema severely and never smoked a day in her life and neither did her parents etc, she could not recall ever being around cigarette smoke so it may not entirely be the cigarette smoke thats causing such health problems, it could be all the pollutants in the air we breathe.
Until companies stop polluting the air we breathe, the water we drink, the food they serve us and everything else, I will continue to enjoy my only vice, I mean after all it is perfectly legal.
I am very considerate of non-smokers as long as they give the same consideration.
Someone got emphysema without being around smoke? That must mean smoke isn't what is causing it. Next you are going to tell me someone is HIV+ that didn't sleep with someone who has AIDS. I just don't believe it.
:noway: I think you missed the point entirely. She isn't saying smoking doesn't cause these diseases but that it isn't the ONLY thing that causes them.
I mentioned previously a family friend who died last week of lung cancer...not a smoker...not a spouse of a smoker and not a child of smokers. Something else caused HIS cancer. Not saying that smoking does not cause cancer but it is obviously not the only way to contract lung cancer either. (or emphysema)0 -
"Those who trade a little liberty for a little security will loose both and deserve neither."-Ben Franklin0
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I am going through this thread and I am not sure it's been brought up but, in my experience, smokers tend to litter. A LOT. In that respect, I would say they are selfish scum.
Not all. I will go out of my way to find an ashtray or trashcan or put a butt in my pocket before throwing it on the ground. I've seen plenty of non-smoking people that litter, so that is a pretty generalized stereotype. :flowerforyou:
Then you appear to be in the minority of smokers. I drive an hour to and from work every day, mostly on two lane roads, so when you get behind someone, you tend to be behind them for quite a while. Most of the people that I see smoking in their car throw their butts out the window when they are done,
In order to walk from my house to the downtown area, we have to walk through a congested intersection with gravel shoulders. It's disgusting how many of hundreds and thousands of cigarette butts are on the shoulder there. If you want to talk about legislature that should be implemented immediately, I'd love to start seeing $50-$100 tickets being handed out for littering (for any kind of litter, but definitely keep after the cigarette butts).
Yea, that is probably a deciding factor, it IS considered littering in Texas and you will be fined if you are seen throwing a butt out of a car or on the ground.0 -
I don't want them smoking around me. And definitely not around my kids (or anyone else's).
I'm a former 2 pack a day smoker. I think former smokers judge more harshly.0 -
Believe what you want. The bars have seen a huge dip in revenue, especially int he winter time, and the bowling allies cant get people to go there. Read any American paper and you will see. Doesnt take a lot to research it.
They haven't in Ohio where I live. Bars and clubs are just as busy (or slow) as they were prior to the ban. Restaurants actually seem to have LONGER wait lists and are busier.
Yea, I don't buy that either. As a smoker it doesn't STOP me from going anywhere. In fact, I never liked smoking in a restaraunt anyway so places that still allow smoking usually don't get my business.0 -
I had a procedure done on Monday and the woman in the bed next to me had emphysema severely and never smoked a day in her life and neither did her parents etc, she could not recall ever being around cigarette smoke so it may not entirely be the cigarette smoke thats causing such health problems, it could be all the pollutants in the air we breathe.
Until companies stop polluting the air we breathe, the water we drink, the food they serve us and everything else, I will continue to enjoy my only vice, I mean after all it is perfectly legal.
I am very considerate of non-smokers as long as they give the same consideration.
Someone got emphysema without being around smoke? That must mean smoke isn't what is causing it. Next you are going to tell me someone is HIV+ that didn't sleep with someone who has AIDS. I just don't believe it.
:noway: I think you missed the point entirely. She isn't saying smoking doesn't cause these diseases but that it isn't the ONLY thing that causes them.
I mentioned previously a family friend who died last week of lung cancer...not a smoker...not a spouse of a smoker and not a child of smokers. Something else caused HIS cancer. Not saying that smoking does not cause cancer but it is obviously not the only way to contract lung cancer either. (or emphysema)
Oh, well in that case I am wearing black shoes and a stealth colored polo.0 -
"Those who trade a little liberty for a little security will loose both and deserve neither."-Ben Franklin
Ben Franklin didn't even know the difference between loose and lose? What is the workd coming to?0 -
People should shut up and mind their own god forsaken business. What others do with their life is their choice. What YOU DO WITH YOURS is all that matters.0
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Persecuted Minority.
I do not think that as a non-smoker I should dictate where a smoker is allowed to be in a public situation. I should choose where I go based on that establishments policies.
I also do not blame smokers for littering. Many vehicles these days do not have ashtrays because of the whining majority.
I find it very intriguing that the same people who protest "big brother" running our lives, support every oppressive measure placed against others. In this Country (USA) several states rely quite heavily on the proceeds from the production, distribution and sale of Tobacco. While it might seem like a great Idea to some to make it completely illegal, I wonder how they would feel if that was how they earned their living. With a soaring unemployment rate as it is, I say leave tobacco alone.
I live adjacent to a city with a paper-mill and every day on my way to and from work my eyes water, my throat is scratchy, and the pure rancid stink makes me want to vomit. Ten thousand smokers could not pollute the air any worse than this, yet apparently it is legal and you can't have a smoke in a restaurant 200 feet from this place because that is harmful to others?
for those that don't live by a paper mill here is a picture:
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I plan to quit soon but sadly this thread reminds me why I love smoking so much.
I get to piss off uptight people.
I'm not uptight at all. But smoking bothers me tremendously. I can not breathe in it. It also irritates my eyes. I don't have a problem with people smoking. It is their choice. But I think there should be designated smoking areas in any establishment that allows it.
Some people get deathly ill from peanut dust. I don't plan to stop eating those either.
You people have already won that fight in more and more places. Not only are smokers designated to a certain area, anymore you just can't smoke inside. Anywhere. Then they start making rules about how far you have to be from a building to smoke. It never ends.
I won't tell you how to live your life if you don't tell me how to live mine.
Yes, thats another one that bugs me. My daughter came home from school with a note that said no peanut butter sandwiches are allowed at lunch because there is a kid at school that is allergic to peanuts. So because one kid has an allergy, thousands cant have a sandwich. Instead of the parents of this kid taking precautions for their child, they expect everyone else to cater to them. How is that fair to the kids that love peanut butter? Just more of the same BS>
This is an ignorant post. There are children out there that have severe allergies to peanuts where simply being touched by someone who has handled peanuts/peanut butter causes them to go in to anaphylactic shock, which if not dealt with quickly can cause death, and this does not need scientific proof. What are parents supposed to do? Not send their kids to school because your daughter wants to eat her sandwich? So children could lose their lives or just not leave a bubble? Please, pull your head out of your butt and start thinking of others. ps. having peanut butter banned is the parents taking PRECAUTIONS for their children.
BTW, the initial discussion here is if smokers are selfish or a persecuted minority. At no point did the original poster say, hey give me your opinion on how small businesses are affected by the smoking bans. You turned it into that.0 -
I plan to quit soon but sadly this thread reminds me why I love smoking so much.
I get to piss off uptight people.
I'm not uptight at all. But smoking bothers me tremendously. I can not breathe in it. It also irritates my eyes. I don't have a problem with people smoking. It is their choice. But I think there should be designated smoking areas in any establishment that allows it.
Some people get deathly ill from peanut dust. I don't plan to stop eating those either.
You people have already won that fight in more and more places. Not only are smokers designated to a certain area, anymore you just can't smoke inside. Anywhere. Then they start making rules about how far you have to be from a building to smoke. It never ends.
I won't tell you how to live your life if you don't tell me how to live mine.
Yes, thats another one that bugs me. My daughter came home from school with a note that said no peanut butter sandwiches are allowed at lunch because there is a kid at school that is allergic to peanuts. So because one kid has an allergy, thousands cant have a sandwich. Instead of the parents of this kid taking precautions for their child, they expect everyone else to cater to them. How is that fair to the kids that love peanut butter? Just more of the same BS>
This is an ignorant post. There are children out there that have severe allergies to peanuts where simply being touched by someone who has handled peanuts/peanut butter causes them to go in to anaphylactic shock, which if not dealt with quickly can cause death, and this does not need scientific proof. What are parents supposed to do? Not send their kids to school because your daughter wants to eat her sandwich? So children could lose their lives or just not leave a bubble? Please, pull your head out of your butt and start thinking of others. ps. having peanut butter banned is the parents taking PRECAUTIONS for their children.
BTW, the initial discussion here is if smokers are selfish or a persecuted minority. At no point did the original poster say, hey give me your opinion on how small businesses are affected by the smoking bans. You turned it into that.
Thank you! That is just insane. :noway:
Children DIE from peanut allergies. You'd be signing a different tune if it was your kid that was allergic and at risk of death by someone not wanting to give up packing a sandwich.
Ridiculous.0 -
"Those who trade a little liberty for a little security will loose both and deserve neither."-Ben Franklin
:drinker: :flowerforyou:
:flowerforyou: :drinker: 0 -
I'm 21.
I used to hate smoking more than anything in the world.
I, a professional hypocrite, then began smoking after my mom's motorcycle accident.
When I smoke, I aim to do it away from other people.
If there's someone else in a designated smoking area (not smoking), I'll ask if they mind before I light up.
At someone else's house, I will go outside and far from the door.
In MY OWN CAR, if there's a passenger, I'll make sure it's okay with them, and then roll my window all the way down.
Not all smokers are inconsiderate. Chances are those people don't care much about others in the first place.0 -
...having peanut butter banned is the parents taking PRECAUTIONS for their children.
Seriously? So if my child has an allergy to cinnamon, your kid cant have anything with cinnamon in it? I had a severe allergy to milk as a child, so they should have pulled the milk out of the school? Now a days it seems every child has some allergy to something, at least according to all the hypochondriac parents, so there would be nothing left for kids to eat for lunch. If all of this is over one kid, I sure hope no one discovers which kid or they will be on the next episode of "Bullied".0 -
I think I as a smoker will stay out of this one!0
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The thing that annoys me is that some smokers think they can just chuck their butts on the ground!! Yuck!!0
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This debate is pretty entertaining, and I have nothing to add other than the fact that this made me laugh!!!You found a posting from the Heartlander...Really?....Come on man...0
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I don't care if someone wants to smoke. Go for it, that's your decision as an adult. I do appreciate the smoking ban within so many feet of a public building. I really don't care to have to walk through a smoke screen when entering a store. So then a designated area should be set up. I think taking smoking out of bars is ridiculous. That's what bars are, drink and smoke. Taxing tobacco - ok, yeah I agree with it - it's a bad habit, as smokers well know, but it's easily taxed. That's how I feel about weed. Fine, make it legal but tax the **** out of it. There's a new road for the city.0
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Neither, some smokers are considerate, but there are a few who are not and don't take into account their surroundings when lighting up.
I am glad smoking is banned in public places here i the UK, I don't want to breathe other people smoke in, but fully respect those that are considerate.
This. I have friends who smoke (although I wish they'd quit, for their own health).0 -
...having peanut butter banned is the parents taking PRECAUTIONS for their children.
Seriously? So if my child has an allergy to cinnamon, your kid cant have anything with cinnamon in it? I had a severe allergy to milk as a child, so they should have pulled the milk out of the school? Now a days it seems every child has some allergy to something, at least according to all the hypochondriac parents, so there would be nothing left for kids to eat for lunch. If all of this is over one kid, I sure hope no one discovers which kid or they will be on the next episode of "Bullied".
I take it you didn't read the entire post. You know, the part about some people with peanut allergies possibly dying from contact. The suit in your pic makes you look smart, your posts, however, do not.0 -
Can't stand when people smoke in front of kids. It should be a form of child abuse, if not attempted murder. Makes me sick to think any PARENT would put there child in harms way.
That is absolute insanity. First of all, a persons kids are their kids not yours. Second, there is not a single study anywhere in the world that proves that second hand smoke is as dangerous as people try to make it out to be. My advice, worry about your own kids and stay out of other peoples business.
Change your mind if you come to California. It is illegal to smoke in a car with a child inside. Yeah!!0 -
Persecuted Minority.
I do not think that as a non-smoker I should dictate where a smoker is allowed to be in a public situation. I should choose where I go based on that establishments policies.
I also do not blame smokers for littering. Many vehicles these days do not have ashtrays because of the whining majority.
I find it very intriguing that the same people who protest "big brother" running our lives, support every oppressive measure placed against others. In this Country (USA) several states rely quite heavily on the proceeds from the production, distribution and sale of Tobacco. While it might seem like a great Idea to some to make it completely illegal, I wonder how they would feel if that was how they earned their living. With a soaring unemployment rate as it is, I say leave tobacco alone.
I live adjacent to a city with a paper-mill and every day on my way to and from work my eyes water, my throat is scratchy, and the pure rancid stink makes me want to vomit. Ten thousand smokers could not pollute the air any worse than this, yet apparently it is legal and you can't have a smoke in a restaurant 200 feet from this place because that is harmful to others?
for those that don't live by a paper mill here is a picture: truth 0 -
Can't stand when people smoke in front of kids. It should be a form of child abuse, if not attempted murder. Makes me sick to think any PARENT would put there child in harms way.
That is absolute insanity. First of all, a persons kids are their kids not yours. Second, there is not a single study anywhere in the world that proves that second hand smoke is as dangerous as people try to make it out to be. My advice, worry about your own kids and stay out of other peoples business.
Change your mind if you come to California. It is illegal to smoke in a car with a child inside. Yeah!!
That's the only Cali specific law that I have ever heard that makes any sense.0 -
lol...you can definitely tell who smokes and who doesn't. As far as I'm concerned, you can't smoke indoors most places, so fine by me. Smoke outside, I don't care. Your lungs, not mine. I will just walk around, won't kill me. If I have to walk through it, I just hold my breath. The only thing that bothers me is that at my school we have an area for smoking because we share our building with a lot of medical offices. There are some people that sit there in front of an office that treats a lot of elderly patients and smoke and seemingly don't give a damn about it, but, not my right to say anything. Most of the elderly people have complained, but you can't make someone do something so it's pretty pointless. And I would not call smokers a minority, either. Or scum.0
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Persecuted Minority.
I do not think that as a non-smoker I should dictate where a smoker is allowed to be in a public situation. I should choose where I go based on that establishments policies.
I also do not blame smokers for littering. Many vehicles these days do not have ashtrays because of the whining majority.
I find it very intriguing that the same people who protest "big brother" running our lives, support every oppressive measure placed against others. In this Country (USA) several states rely quite heavily on the proceeds from the production, distribution and sale of Tobacco. While it might seem like a great Idea to some to make it completely illegal, I wonder how they would feel if that was how they earned their living. With a soaring unemployment rate as it is, I say leave tobacco alone.
I live adjacent to a city with a paper-mill and every day on my way to and from work my eyes water, my throat is scratchy, and the pure rancid stink makes me want to vomit. Ten thousand smokers could not pollute the air any worse than this, yet apparently it is legal and you can't have a smoke in a restaurant 200 feet from this place because that is harmful to others?
for those that don't live by a paper mill here is a picture:
The paper mill sounds awful
The part of your post I want to address: the throwing of cigarette butts out car windows. I think they actually had laws against that in South Dakota and I believe Wyoming earlier this summer, due to the high fire danger there--my good friend who smokes (and commutes between Rapid City and Gillette regularly) used a water bottle and just threw her butts in there while smoking in her car, rather than get a ticket. There are lots of options rather than litter-- I haven't seen a car with an actual ashtray built in it since I drove my grandparents' 1986 Dodge Aries 
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The thing that annoys me is that some smokers think they can just chuck their butts on the ground!! Yuck!!
lol that's one of the only things that bothers me! Walking through smoke I hold my breath, but butts on the ground? What are we, white trash?0 -
Persecuted Minority.
I do not think that as a non-smoker I should dictate where a smoker is allowed to be in a public situation. I should choose where I go based on that establishments policies.
I also do not blame smokers for littering. Many vehicles these days do not have ashtrays because of the whining majority.
I find it very intriguing that the same people who protest "big brother" running our lives, support every oppressive measure placed against others. In this Country (USA) several states rely quite heavily on the proceeds from the production, distribution and sale of Tobacco. While it might seem like a great Idea to some to make it completely illegal, I wonder how they would feel if that was how they earned their living. With a soaring unemployment rate as it is, I say leave tobacco alone.
I live adjacent to a city with a paper-mill and every day on my way to and from work my eyes water, my throat is scratchy, and the pure rancid stink makes me want to vomit. Ten thousand smokers could not pollute the air any worse than this, yet apparently it is legal and you can't have a smoke in a restaurant 200 feet from this place because that is harmful to others?
for those that don't live by a paper mill here is a picture:
The paper mill sounds awful The part of your post I want to address: the throwing of cigarette butts out car windows. I think they actually had laws against that in South Dakota and I believe Wyoming earlier this summer, due to the high fire danger there--my good friend who smokes (and commutes between Rapid City and Gillette regularly) used a water bottle and just threw her butts in there while smoking in her car, rather than get a ticket. There are lots of options rather than litter-- I haven't seen a car with an actual ashtray built in it since I drove my grandparents' 1986 Dodge Aries
Have you driven a car since 1986? That's the year I was born and every car I have owned up until the last 2, a 01 and a 12, have had ash trays.0 -
Certainly not persecuted minority. Although I would not choose such a judgmental phrase as "selfish scum", as an apartment dweller who gets severe migraines and sinus infections from being around smoke, I do wish I could open my balcony door for fresh air some times. But the rest of the apartments on my side of the building all have smokers in them. Sigh. I know it's an addiction and blah blah blah but c'mon! My choices are no fresh air ever because my doors and windows are locked up or because of smoke drifting in from my neighbors!0
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