Smokers – selfish scum or persecuted minority?

JohnMessmer

...having peanut butter banned is the parents taking PRECAUTIONS for their children.

Seriously? So if my child has an allergy to cinnamon, your kid cant have anything with cinnamon in it? I had a severe allergy to milk as a child, so they should have pulled the milk out of the school? Now a days it seems every child has some allergy to something, at least according to all the hypochondriac parents, so there would be nothing left for kids to eat for lunch. If all of this is over one kid, I sure hope no one discovers which kid or they will be on the next episode of "Bullied".

I take it you didn't read the entire post. You know, the part about some people with peanut allergies possibly dying from contact. The suit in your pic makes you look smart, your posts, however, do not.

Yes I read the whole post. Yes people, and children, can die from peanuts; therefore, peanut butter. People also die from automobiles, school buses, Diarrhea and pneumonia kill an estimated 3.5 million kids under 5 each year globally — more than HIV and malaria combined, and a host of other reasons. Death is the end result to everyone's life and if you can not teach your child (not you specifically, me as an adult) that they can not run in front of traffic, or eat my peanut butter sandwich, or wear a seat belt, then I should not be penalized for the potential ramifications of your childs actions, it is called "Natural Selection".

As for my suit, it is a work picture and is not intended for any purpose other than to identify me.

hush7hush

In response to the ashtray thing:

I've got a 2006 Saturn Ion.
My mom's got a 2013 Ford Escape.
Step-dad has a 2007 Dodge Intrepid.
Best friend has a 2001 Chevy Impala.

Not a single one of those damn cars has an ash tray or a lighter.

I bought a cup-holder ashtray for two bucks at Walmart.

eatcleanNtraindirty

Can't stand when people smoke in front of kids. It should be a form of child abuse, if not attempted murder. Makes me sick to think any PARENT would put there child in harms way.

That is absolute insanity. First of all, a persons kids are their kids not yours. Second, there is not a single study anywhere in the world that proves that second hand smoke is as dangerous as people try to make it out to be. My advice, worry about your own kids and stay out of other peoples business.

I'm just using this one quote but basically, you are about as ignorant as they come.

No one is telling you what is allowed in your own place of business except for all the cheating lying fat smoking state representatives and senators. So chew on that buddy. I know that in the state of Texas you have to have a special license to allow smoking in your establishment. If you don't have one of those (like my business) then you are forced to actually have a window graphic that says, "No Smoking". So you can do whatever the hell you want as long as it's within the laws set forth by whomever made the law in your state.

You are dead wrong when you try to say second hand smoke isn't that bad. Now they even come out with studies about THIRD HAND SMOKE. Put down your ciggy and try reading something educational.
Inhaling toxic fumes from a fire is the same thing as second hand smoke... the person is inhaling smoke vapors, but not directly from the base of the fire like a smoker does with a cigarette. Go stand by an industrial warehouse fire that is spewing toxic fumes and inhale the smoke, that is how the rest of us feel when we're around smokers.

There are some people who are going a little overboard by basically saying we should outlaw smoking in any public area, but seriously kids should not be around smoke. And if the govt can tell us and reprimand parents for being physically or emotionally abusive to their child then the same should be applied to those who smoke around their children.

lamoursuffit

P.S. addiction to nicotine is noncomparable to addiction to heroin. Don't try to make it out to be something that bad. Is it terribly addicting? Yes. Can you be on the verge of death from withdrawls from tobacco? No.

pkw58

So after scanning this post for about an hour... No, smokers are not selfish scum no more than I was a greedy pig when I was overweight. We just both did things to our body that others noticed. Bad habits we enjoyed - smokes smoked and I ate up all my share of cupcakes in life by December 2011.

Persecuted minority? Don't have the statistics to know if smokers are a minority % or not, but persecuted, heck yea, and I am one of the persecuters. I am allergic to cigarette smoke and get horrible eye, ears and throut infections from cigeratte smoke. My adopted dad who was an OB / GYN took 7 years to die from lung cancer because he smoked one to two packs a day in between delivering babies. I vote for bans on smoking every time they come up in Texas.

So I don't believe in punishing people for being smokers or overweight , but man, I am all about taking my health insurance discount for being in my healthy weight range, non smoking, non drinking fitness self. I should have to pay more for medical if I mistreat my body. I get a discount on life insurance for being a non smoker as well as on my car insurance.

So all other topics aside, smokers are not selfish scum, but yes, they are persecuted. Don't know the numbers to know if they qualify as a minority.

DrMAvDPhD

And for every study you post that says second hand smoke is worse than the plague, I can show you two that say its no big deal.


http://news.heartland.org/newspaper-article/2008/07/01/scientific-evidence-shows-secondhand-smoke-no-danger

From this article's main reference, a journal that requires acknowledgement of conflict of interest:

follow up through 1999 and data analysis
were conducted at University of California at Los Angeles with
support from the Center for Indoor Air Research, a 1988-99
research organisation that received funding primarily from US
tobacco companies

In recent years JEE has received funds
originating from the tobacco industry for his tobacco related
epidemiological research because it has been impossible for
him to obtain equivalent funds from other sources. GCK never
received funds originating from the tobacco industry until last
year, when he conducted an epidemiological review for a law
firm which has several tobacco companies as clients.

moosegt35

...having peanut butter banned is the parents taking PRECAUTIONS for their children.

Seriously? So if my child has an allergy to cinnamon, your kid cant have anything with cinnamon in it? I had a severe allergy to milk as a child, so they should have pulled the milk out of the school? Now a days it seems every child has some allergy to something, at least according to all the hypochondriac parents, so there would be nothing left for kids to eat for lunch. If all of this is over one kid, I sure hope no one discovers which kid or they will be on the next episode of "Bullied".

I take it you didn't read the entire post. You know, the part about some people with peanut allergies possibly dying from contact. The suit in your pic makes you look smart, your posts, however, do not.

Yes I read the whole post. Yes people, and children, can die from peanuts; therefore, peanut butter. People also die from automobiles, school buses, Diarrhea and pneumonia kill an estimated 3.5 million kids under 5 each year globally — more than HIV and malaria combined, and a host of other reasons. Death is the end result to everyone's life and if you can not teach your child (not you specifically, me as an adult) that they can not run in front of traffic, or eat my peanut butter sandwich, or wear a seat belt, then I should not be penalized for the potential ramifications of your childs actions, it is called "Natural Selection".

As for my suit, it is a work picture and is not intended for any purpose other than to identify me.

So you obviously didn't read the entire post. CONTACT, does not mean the kid has to eat the sandwich to be harmed. Here I will break it down for you:

You are allergic to peanut butter
I am not
We are friends
I eat a PB sandwich for lunch, and probably as an elementary school kid get some on my hands
You eat your bologna sandwich, becasue you are allergic to PB
After lunch in the hallway we are playing and I touch you with my PB hands
You have an allergic reaction and get sick and/or die


Is that simple enough for you to understand now or do I need to draw pictures?


Those other things you mentioned I am not even getting into. You are comparing apples to space ships.

moosegt35

In response to the ashtray thing:

I've got a 2006 Saturn Ion.
My mom's got a 2013 Ford Escape.
Step-dad has a 2007 Dodge Intrepid.
Best friend has a 2001 Chevy Impala.

Not a single one of those damn cars has an ash tray or a lighter.

I bought a cup-holder ashtray for two bucks at Walmart.

There are 15 years in between 1986 and 2001.

lamoursuffit

Someone got emphysema without being around smoke? That must mean smoke isn't what is causing it. Next you are going to tell me someone is HIV+ that didn't sleep with someone who has AIDS. I just don't believe it.

Are you...are you serious?

Infected drug needles, infected blood transfusion bag, passed from the mother...really?

rextcat

Persecuted Minority.

I do not think that as a non-smoker I should dictate where a smoker is allowed to be in a public situation. I should choose where I go based on that establishments policies.

I also do not blame smokers for littering. Many vehicles these days do not have ashtrays because of the whining majority.

I find it very intriguing that the same people who protest "big brother" running our lives, support every oppressive measure placed against others. In this Country (USA) several states rely quite heavily on the proceeds from the production, distribution and sale of Tobacco. While it might seem like a great Idea to some to make it completely illegal, I wonder how they would feel if that was how they earned their living. With a soaring unemployment rate as it is, I say leave tobacco alone.

I live adjacent to a city with a paper-mill and every day on my way to and from work my eyes water, my throat is scratchy, and the pure rancid stink makes me want to vomit. Ten thousand smokers could not pollute the air any worse than this, yet apparently it is legal and you can't have a smoke in a restaurant 200 feet from this place because that is harmful to others?
for those that don't live by a paper mill here is a picture:

The paper mill sounds awful The part of your post I want to address: the throwing of cigarette butts out car windows. I think they actually had laws against that in South Dakota and I believe Wyoming earlier this summer, due to the high fire danger there--my good friend who smokes (and commutes between Rapid City and Gillette regularly) used a water bottle and just threw her butts in there while smoking in her car, rather than get a ticket. There are lots of options rather than litter-- I haven't seen a car with an actual ashtray built in it since I drove my grandparents' 1986 Dodge Aries

the last one i had that came with an ash tray was a 98 caviler, had one in the front and one in the back i think compains stoped puting them in about 8 years ago

lamoursuffit

If you agree then you obviously didn't read my response to his post. If you get addicted to ANYTHING, you are weak minded and have no self control.

Says the person on a weight loss website, who is probably addicted to food :flowerforyou:

moosegt35

Someone got emphysema without being around smoke? That must mean smoke isn't what is causing it. Next you are going to tell me someone is HIV+ that didn't sleep with someone who has AIDS. I just don't believe it.

Are you...are you serious?

Infected drug needles, infected blood transfusion bag, passed from the mother...really?

Do you people read before you post? That was CLEARLY sarcasm, posted in response to someone talking about 1 instance where they saw someone with emphysema who wasn't a smoker or around them and using that to conclude that "maybe smoking isn't what causes this". Obviously it isn't the only thing that causes it and no one ever said it was.

Oliviamarie05

...having peanut butter banned is the parents taking PRECAUTIONS for their children.

Seriously? So if my child has an allergy to cinnamon, your kid cant have anything with cinnamon in it? I had a severe allergy to milk as a child, so they should have pulled the milk out of the school? Now a days it seems every child has some allergy to something, at least according to all the hypochondriac parents, so there would be nothing left for kids to eat for lunch. If all of this is over one kid, I sure hope no one discovers which kid or they will be on the next episode of "Bullied".

I take it you didn't read the entire post. You know, the part about some people with peanut allergies possibly dying from contact. The suit in your pic makes you look smart, your posts, however, do not.

Yes I read the whole post. Yes people, and children, can die from peanuts; therefore, peanut butter. People also die from automobiles, school buses, Diarrhea and pneumonia kill an estimated 3.5 million kids under 5 each year globally — more than HIV and malaria combined, and a host of other reasons. Death is the end result to everyone's life and if you can not teach your child (not you specifically, me as an adult) that they can not run in front of traffic, or eat my peanut butter sandwich, or wear a seat belt, then I should not be penalized for the potential ramifications of your childs actions, it is called "Natural Selection".

As for my suit, it is a work picture and is not intended for any purpose other than to identify me.

What you are insinuating here is that the child with the allergy doesn't know better to stay away from what causes an allergic reaction. I have personally witnessed a peanut reaction where all the person did was walk by someone eating the peanuts and they went in to anaphylactic shock. I had to personally rush them to an emergency room so they could be treated while their throat swelled shut. This is not children being ignorant and a case of take care of yourself, this is life or death. What's sad is if a parent, such as yourself, said listen kid, get over it and learn to deal with it and a child died because some kid ate a peanut butter sandwich and simply touched their arm. And as for the cinnamon comment, the peanut allergy is one of the worst and widely acknowledged because it affects the MANY children attending school. One person with one allergy that can be easily handled by say Reactine or an antihistamine compared to children needing an adrenaline shock and then emergency is very, very different.

moosegt35

If you agree then you obviously didn't read my response to his post. If you get addicted to ANYTHING, you are weak minded and have no self control.

Says the person on a weight loss website, who is probably addicted to food :flowerforyou:

Everyone is "addicted" to food. You actually can't live without it. Bet you didn't know that. This isn't a weight loss website BTW, it's a fitness website.

lamoursuffit

Someone got emphysema without being around smoke? That must mean smoke isn't what is causing it. Next you are going to tell me someone is HIV+ that didn't sleep with someone who has AIDS. I just don't believe it.

Are you...are you serious?

Infected drug needles, infected blood transfusion bag, passed from the mother...really?

Do you people read before you post? That was CLEARLY sarcasm, posted in response to someone talking about 1 instance where they saw someone with emphysema who wasn't a smoker or around them and using that to conclude that "maybe smoking isn't what causes this". Obviously it isn't the only thing that causes it and no one ever said it was.

I did read that strand, yes, but I must have missed the sarcasm, hence why I asked if you were serious. No harm, no foul.:flowerforyou:

brandynicole28

I am not going to say Selfish Scum...but its bad for you! And as a Registered Respiratory Therapist, I really just want to say THANK YOU FOR SMOKING!! Job Security Baby! Oh...and I will be seeing you, just remember I didn't hold the cig to your mouth and force you to smoke so don't treat me like crap because you can't breath!!! BUT having said that...you really shouldn't smoke, I see the agony and suffering that results from such bad choices. And for the record it is my job to educate and try to advocate for smoking cessation.

JohnMessmer

The paper mill sounds awful The part of your post I want to address: the throwing of cigarette butts out car windows. I think they actually had laws against that in South Dakota and I believe Wyoming earlier this summer, due to the high fire danger there--my good friend who smokes (and commutes between Rapid City and Gillette regularly) used a water bottle and just threw her butts in there while smoking in her car, rather than get a ticket. There are lots of options rather than litter-- I haven't seen a car with an actual ashtray built in it since I drove my grandparents' 1986 Dodge Aries

While I do not condone littering, especially throwing a small fire out your car window, my point was that the smoker is not given a safe option of disposing their butt as a result of companies trying to be politically correct with the whim of the majority of people. I was a smoker and owned a vehicle that did not have an ashtray, I used a drink can (Moutain Dew, gosh I use to love that stuff) and put my butts in it. One day I threw a butt in my drink can and about 5 minutes later there was "fire" coming out of the top of the can and disgusting smoke. I pulled over rapidly and tossed the can onto the ground and used another soda to put out the flames. If I had not been in a situation where I could pull over rapidly safely I probably would have wrecked my car trying to get the can out, and had I not been in the car who knows what would have happened.

lamoursuffit

If you agree then you obviously didn't read my response to his post. If you get addicted to ANYTHING, you are weak minded and have no self control.

Says the person on a weight loss website, who is probably addicted to food :flowerforyou:

Everyone is "addicted" to food. You actually can't live without it. Bet you didn't know that. This isn't a weight loss website BTW, it's a fitness website.

Correct, this is a fitness website, my apologies. However, everyone is addicted to something, or they have been at some point. So congratulations, you're a weak-minded, ignorant person with no self control!

moosegt35

The paper mill sounds awful The part of your post I want to address: the throwing of cigarette butts out car windows. I think they actually had laws against that in South Dakota and I believe Wyoming earlier this summer, due to the high fire danger there--my good friend who smokes (and commutes between Rapid City and Gillette regularly) used a water bottle and just threw her butts in there while smoking in her car, rather than get a ticket. There are lots of options rather than litter-- I haven't seen a car with an actual ashtray built in it since I drove my grandparents' 1986 Dodge Aries

While I do not condone littering, especially throwing a small fire out your car window, my point was that the smoker is not given a safe option of disposing their butt as a result of companies trying to be politically correct with the whim of the majority of people. I was a smoker and owned a vehicle that did not have an ashtray, I used a drink can (Moutain Dew, gosh I use to love that stuff) and put my butts in it. One day I threw a butt in my drink can and about 5 minutes later there was "fire" coming out of the top of the can and disgusting smoke. I pulled over rapidly and tossed the can onto the ground and used another soda to put out the flames. If I had not been in a situation where I could pull over rapidly safely I probably would have wrecked my car trying to get the can out, and had I not been in the car who knows what would have happened.

Try using one with liquid in it next time. Liquid puts out fires.

jenbit

Ok so I muddled through this entire thread (19 fricken pages) Heres my take.

1 I am a smoker have been one for many years.
2 I am also a nurse
3 I work in a goverment facility.

I cannot smoke on facility ground because in my state all goverment property is nonsmoking..... No biggie the people who smoke while at work(which I dont) walk across the parking lot.
I can however smoke in all the bars down here and the casinos....

THe is a bar here connected to a hotel and they used to serve the continental breakfast in the bars lounge. The city came in and fined them for allowing smoking were food is served. They then started making all smokers go outside to smoke. The lost about 75% of their customers. I know because the DJ is a friend of mine and he complained that the drop off was immediate. It was so bad the bar actually made a new arragement with the hotel so breakfast will not be served in there anymore and what do you know buisness picked back up....

I dont smoke in my house 1 because I have kids and 2 because it stains the walls. I smoke in my front yard. I smoke in my car. I will smoke in any public place that allows smoking.Yet I can work out for hours and I dont get short of breath.

I did however take care of a pt and his daughter who both had terminal lung cancer and never smoked. Not all cancer comes from cigarettes. Remember something kills everybody.

However I dont blow my smoke in others peoples faces and have moved away from pregnant women so as not to bother them with my smoke. Why cant everyone just be considorate to each other.

moosegt35

If you agree then you obviously didn't read my response to his post. If you get addicted to ANYTHING, you are weak minded and have no self control.

Says the person on a weight loss website, who is probably addicted to food :flowerforyou:

Everyone is "addicted" to food. You actually can't live without it. Bet you didn't know that. This isn't a weight loss website BTW, it's a fitness website.

Correct, this is a fitness website, my apologies. However, everyone is addicted to something, or they have been at some point. So congratulations, you're a weak-minded, ignorant person with no self control!

So what exactly am I addicted to? Water, oxygen, fuel to live? Yes. Something that on the box clearly states that it can and will kill you? No thanks, I'm smarter than that.

stargazer008

I would prefer it they don't smoke where there are many people due to the health effects second hand smoke. That's all.

KLo924

As someone who feels ill around cigarette smoke, I consider smoking to be a public nuisance. Your addiction should not trump my ability to breathe. So, yes, I am in favor banning smoking in public places, just like I am in favor public noise ordinances and open bottle laws. That said, I don't understand people who feel the need to "enlighten" smokers about the dangers of their habit.

This (although the occasional open bottle and outdoor concert is fun ). Also, as someone who grew up in a smoker's household and had chronic sinus infections (that magically stopped when he stopped smoking), I agree with the guy above who said that there should be restrictions concerning smoking around children.

brandynicole28

Someone got emphysema without being around smoke? That must mean smoke isn't what is causing it. Next you are going to tell me someone is HIV+ that didn't sleep with someone who has AIDS. I just don't believe it.

Are you...are you serious?

Infected drug needles, infected blood transfusion bag, passed from the mother...really?

Do you people read before you post? That was CLEARLY sarcasm, posted in response to someone talking about 1 instance where they saw someone with emphysema who wasn't a smoker or around them and using that to conclude that "maybe smoking isn't what causes this". Obviously it isn't the only thing that causes it and no one ever said it was.

I did read that strand, yes, but I must have missed the sarcasm, hence why I asked if you were serious. No harm, no foul.:flowerforyou:

Regardless of the manner in which this was meant, sarcasm or not.....As an Respiratory Therapist I can tell you there is a form of Emphysema that is genetic (Alpha-1 Antitrypsin Deficiency) and not cause by cig smoke. However it only occurs in approx 1 in 2,500 people. There are many patients I treat that do not smoke but have COPD or Emphysema due to second hand smoke.

newmanmb463

The paper mill sounds awful The part of your post I want to address: the throwing of cigarette butts out car windows. I think they actually had laws against that in South Dakota and I believe Wyoming earlier this summer, due to the high fire danger there--my good friend who smokes (and commutes between Rapid City and Gillette regularly) used a water bottle and just threw her butts in there while smoking in her car, rather than get a ticket. There are lots of options rather than litter-- I haven't seen a car with an actual ashtray built in it since I drove my grandparents' 1986 Dodge Aries

While I do not condone littering, especially throwing a small fire out your car window, my point was that the smoker is not given a safe option of disposing their butt as a result of companies trying to be politically correct with the whim of the majority of people. I was a smoker and owned a vehicle that did not have an ashtray, I used a drink can (Moutain Dew, gosh I use to love that stuff) and put my butts in it. One day I threw a butt in my drink can and about 5 minutes later there was "fire" coming out of the top of the can and disgusting smoke. I pulled over rapidly and tossed the can onto the ground and used another soda to put out the flames. If I had not been in a situation where I could pull over rapidly safely I probably would have wrecked my car trying to get the can out, and had I not been in the car who knows what would have happened.

Try using one with liquid in it next time. Liquid puts out fires.

^^^This. You're the one choosing to light something on fire in your car. Car manufactures are not required to give you a place to put these remains. I don't have a garbage can built into my car, but that doesn't make it right for me to throw my trash out the window.

Chipmaniac

So far people are commenting on how smokers are inconsiderate. The debate isnt whether or not smokers should be more considerate. Should a business owner be told that they cant allow smoking in their own establishment?

Yes, he should and it's the law in many states including my own. The right for a government body to regulate a dangerous deadly chemical has never to my knowledge been challenged successfully. So, too bad for you and it's only going to get worse over time as less and less people are sympathetic to your plight.

hush7hush

In response to the ashtray thing:

I've got a 2006 Saturn Ion.
My mom's got a 2013 Ford Escape.
Step-dad has a 2007 Dodge Intrepid.
Best friend has a 2001 Chevy Impala.

Not a single one of those damn cars has an ash tray or a lighter.

I bought a cup-holder ashtray for two bucks at Walmart.

There are 15 years in between 1986 and 2001.

The point of this is that you can buy one for about ten minutes worth of work at a minimum wage job.

It's not necessary to throw your butts out the window.

coffee_rocks

I have read most of the posts, and have my own opinion - of course.

In the province of Ontario, where I live, you cannot smoke at work, in an indoor public space (like a mall or hockey arena) or in a restaurant. When the ban went into effect on restaurants a few years ago, the hospitality industry cried that they would all be bankrupt in no time. Guess what. The restaurants are still open, people still eat at them, and the smokers are outside.

In Ontario, you cannot smoke in a car if there is a child under the age of 16 in the car. Second hand smoke does harm the lungs of the non-smoker forced to breath it in, and this law is designed to protect children whom cannot defend themselves.

If smokers want to smoke, go for it, but it has to be done in a way that allows non-smokers to breath fresh air. I think limiting it to outdoors, or in your own home, are reasonable concessions for a habit that we don't all enjoy.

ValerieMartini2Olives

You know what I like most about smoking bans? Going to a concert and being able to breathe and not being surrounded by a thick shroud of smoke or not worrying about some drunk fool burning you with their cigarette.

geebusuk

Transportation is kind of a necessity these days, wouldn't you say? Smoking? Not at all. You are comparing apples to hammers here.

Should be able to do just fine with a push bike if you cared about other people's health.

I've been doing it for my own health and found I only need the car (well, van) for transporting large stuff for work for anything reasonably local.
I don't "need" to do longer journeys generally, just pleasure - but then I don't have a problem with smoking near me either .

for those that don't live by a paper mill here is a picture:

Indeed. I suspect people buying paper don't really care they're polluting "someone else's" air.