Employer charging smokers.. Thoughts?
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my job already does that..its like 25.00 per month for it and it comes directly out of smokers checks...but i do know of alot of employees who say they dont smoke and marked it with HR and arent being charged for it..also for the non smokers; we get $25.00 (for the month) added to our paychecks for being a non-smoker...i think it has something to do with the BCBS insurance company...0
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so, starting in 2013 my employer will charge employees that smoke. i smoke on occassion. i don't know all the details as of yet but what I do know is that all employees will have to sign a waiver upon enrollment for insurance. basically i must certify that I had been a non-tobacco user for the 12 months immediately prior to completing my enrollment. since i can't certify this, i am subject to a $40 monthly premium deducted from my pay. i understand that smoking can lead to lifelong medical expenses. in my city, the largest medical claims are high blood pressure/ hypertension back & join pain. every year i get a medical exam & i get consistently get a clean bill of health. i excercise and watch what i eat. as i understand, one cause of high blood pressure is smoking, but it's also caused by being overweight or obese, lack of physical activity, poor diet etc. so, why target smokers only??
just wondering thoughts on this? and, yes, i know smoking is bad for me. wah wah.
We must work for the same company0 -
I wouldn't be suprised if they try to target overweight people someday. Once they get everyone paying out the wahoo for smoking, through cigarette taxes, insurance premiums, and what not, they will need the next group to target. Smoking is easier than weight to pin point tax, and fee to death. I smoked for half of my life before quitting in January, I will never go back, but I definately understand those who haven't quit, it is hard, just as hard if not harder than losing weight. My insurance bills going up was another incentive for me to quit.
Some people quit smoking, for many reasons including how expensive it is. Some others keep smoking, can't afford it, so they get on welfare, spend everyone elses money for food, insurance, and rent and go buy their cigarettes anyways!
Found my soap box!0 -
The insurance companies charge it as a risk factor, similar to auto insurance charging more for an 18-year old driver versus a 40-year old driver.
If the insurance companies start charging more for obese patients, those costs will eventually get passed on as well.
I'm not sure how your employer can enforce this, though. How would they verify if someone is a smoker, especially if (like you) they only smoke when drinking? Weight goes into a medical record, but smoking doesn't (unless you admit to it). I'm genuinely curious about this.
You're signing an affidavit swearing under penalty that you do not smoke. If the insurance company suspects that you are smoking, they can demand a blood test to check for nicotine levels. Test positive, they can dun you extra money for smoking, they can charge you for the months that you claimed you didn't smoke and can drop you from the policy all together. Depending on the wording in the contract (that's what it basically is), they can do all of these things all at once.
My insurance started it last year...luckily, we had both quit several years ago. They also require that if spouse or other person in the home smokes, you pay extra0 -
Personally I think it's discrimination on the part of insurance companies to pinpoint certain medical conditions (including addiction) and not others. And why do they only target tobacco users? Do people who smoke marijuana, meth or crack have a lesser chance of costing the insurance companies money in long-term health care expenses?
As someone who is trying desperately to quit smoking and STAY quit, I can understand your issue with disclosing your social smoking in the 12 months prior and having to literally pay for it.0 -
One of my friends took up smoking because the smokers got smoking breaks and the none smokers didnt get anything
x0 -
I work for one of those big-bad insurance companies and while you personally may not yet have experienced health issues due to your smoking history, that doesn't hold true for smokers - they are much more prone to lung disease (Copd, emphysema, and lung cancer)... Consider yourself fortunate that you gave it up.My opinion is it makes sense b/c smokers cost a company more in medical bills. I'm no doctor but I read that smokers will get sick easier than non-smokers, have a higher risk of developing cancers, heart disease (even if blood pressure is not high), and other diease that simply makes a smoker more expensive than an identical person who did not smoke.
How do you figure? I smoked for 20 years and not once did I go to the hospital for anything "smoking" related.
For the OP - maybe you can pull a Bill Clinton remark and claim that while you do smoke, you don't actually inhale. If you only smoke when you drink, maybe it's time to wean yourself off and give it up. Your lungs will thank you.0 -
Your employer is kind of going about this the wrong way. The insurance companies have been increasing prices and charging the employers more who then pass it on to the employees. However due to wellness programs, people who take care of themselves get a bonus or a reduced price. It is not supposed to be that they are charging you more for smoking, it is supposed to be that they are giving non-smokers a $40 reduced price for not smoking. Difference is between positive and negative reinforcement and encouraging the employees to quit smoking v.s. making the ones who do [smoke] feel like crap. Your employer either missed that part of the memo, or has an issue with positive reinforcement. (Shortly, our work is going to be doing this as well however our employer let us read the letter from our insurance company which couched it in the above terms.) Oh, and they are also talking about giving a reduced rate for people who are in better shape (read: not obese) or are in a program to exercise and reduce their weight though the details haven't been made clear.
Oh, edited to add this; I worked for many years on a respiratory floor in a hospital awhile back and you wouldn't BELIEVE how many people with lung cancer had no problems with their health until they well, they got lung cancer. From smoking.0 -
that is your insurance, not the employer, and this is not a 'new' thing.0
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i only smoke when i drink... so, i dont take breaks to smoke at work. and, i dont know where this money goes, i will learn more later. in my head, why not charge folks that are obese with awful eating habits & that are sedentary.
Never heard of someone getting fat sitting next to an overweight person.
How about the children of obese/overweight parents who also end up overweight due to learned poor diet choices and inactivity? It's not quite like second hand smoke, but these bad habits become ingrained for kids who aren't exposed to good choices.
As for the premium on smokers (most insurance companies give 'rebates' to the non-smokers, rather than charge the smokers extra), I support it because it helps people quit and the impacts of smoking aren't usually felt in youth. They come years later- just like the longer term impacts of obesity. The costs then to cover the illnesses cause by smoking skyrocket. I'd support a charge/premium for people who are obese (that includes me) for the exact same reason.0 -
i only smoke when i drink... so, i dont take breaks to smoke at work. and, i dont know where this money goes, i will learn more later. in my head, why not charge folks that are obese with awful eating habits & that are sedentary.
Never heard of someone getting fat sitting next to an overweight person.
:laugh: :flowerforyou:0 -
Just take a break and go walk instead of smoking to get a break. This is ridiculous. Smokers are actually paying from their pockets to gamble their health away. Will I get cancer or not? Will I give cancer to somebody by second-hand smoke or not ?
Smoking can lead to a crapload of health issues. Of your the insurer will charge more. Every insurance does.0 -
I think it's a good idea.
Where I live, if you smoke, you get a smoke break. If you don't smoke, too bad for you!
I've been known to take up smoking because places I worked did this. I'd smoke with everyone else, then not smoke when I got off work.0 -
My insurance company has done this as well, and although I may understand why, doesn't mean I agree. It does single out one group of people, and before long, we will be charged for being overweight, for driving too fast, for playing sports (increased risk injuries), or even require genetic sequencing to base our rates on the probability of our getting cancer, heart disease, etc. It is a slippery slope.
That being said, seems easier to me to quit smoking then spend $80 a month, plus cigs (even occassional), plus kissing a smoker is like licking an ashtray if one is not also a smoker. :smokin:0 -
I agree. Fat (yes, I said fat) people should be charged the same amount. Where are the studies about the medical costs of overweight people? Same for alcoholics.i only smoke when i drink... so, i dont take breaks to smoke at work. and, i dont know where this money goes, i will learn more later. in my head, why not charge folks that are obese with awful eating habits & that are sedentary.
Agreed.0 -
i only smoke when i drink... so, i dont take breaks to smoke at work. and, i dont know where this money goes, i will learn more later. in my head, why not charge folks that are obese with awful eating habits & that are sedentary.
Never heard of someone getting fat sitting next to an overweight person.
Love this.
By sitting beside a smoker you get all the cancerous chemicals from second-hand smoke. If you sit beside an overweight person a hamburger won't be magically shoved in your throat.0 -
Sounds like its the insurance company charging it, not your employer. Most insurance companies do.
Smoking regardless of whatever else you do still makes you an at risk employee. They tend to get sick more often etc. the insurance companies are doing the same thing for obese people. I think it's a great idea.0 -
i only smoke when i drink... so, i dont take breaks to smoke at work. and, i dont know where this money goes, i will learn more later. in my head, why not charge folks that are obese with awful eating habits & that are sedentary.
Never heard of someone getting fat sitting next to an overweight person.
EXACTLY! Well said!
Love this.
By sitting beside a smoker you get all the cancerous chemicals from second-hand smoke. If you sit beside an overweight person a hamburger won't be magically shoved in your throat.0 -
Just take a break and go walk instead of smoking to get a break. This is ridiculous. Smokers are actually paying from their pockets to gamble their health away. Will I get cancer or not? Will I give cancer to somebody by second-hand smoke or not ?
Smoking can lead to a crapload of health issues. Of your the insurer will charge more. Every insurance does.
So, should a person with an unhealthy BMI have to pay also, since they are causing just as many, if not more costs for the insurance due to how unhealthy THEY are?0 -
I had to pay a premium for our insurance when they found out my daughter (age 9) has a history of migraines. So nothing surprises me.
I also am looking for employment and two applications I put in (they were government jobs) have stated that the drug testing would also include looking for nicotine and that an offer may be adjusted if it was found and even potentially recinded.0 -
most group health insurance plans are going to some sort of program like this. Higher premiums for overweight people or smokers, and more incentives for those that have a healthier lifestyle.0
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There are many companies out their who will not even hire smokers and are allowed to do this. I agree this is probably the insurance because It is another incentive for smokers to quit. Smoking is 100% a personal choice. Things such as obesity are not necessarily a personal choice. Sometimes these issues are due to other health issues which the person cannot control. Yes many times they can be controlled but it cannot always be done.
I would guess this is only the start for the insurance companies. Smoking is an easy issue to start with because it is a personal choice but I would not be surprised if down the road their will be fees or something for issues such as obesity.
You also need to remember you may have a clean bill of health now but smoking typically has long term affects. Just because you are ok now doesn't mean you will not have health issues down the road due to smoking even if you chose to quit today.0 -
The insurance companies charge it as a risk factor, similar to auto insurance charging more for an 18-year old driver versus a 40-year old driver.
If the insurance companies start charging more for obese patients, those costs will eventually get passed on as well.
I'm not sure how your employer can enforce this, though. How would they verify if someone is a smoker, especially if (like you) they only smoke when drinking? Weight goes into a medical record, but smoking doesn't (unless you admit to it). I'm genuinely curious about this.
Insurance companies (should they choose) can check for smoking via cheek swabs, etc. All insurance companies use 12 months as a non-smoking threshold. Should someone claim as a non-smoker, and die, and then the insurance company finds out that they have indeed smoked in the last 12 months, the insurance company will reduce the death benefit to an amount that premiums charged would have covered if they were an admitted smoker (ie, much less death benefit). Bottom line, it isn't worth lying to an insurance company.
As for overweight or obese people, insurance companies also charge a premium, usually 50-75 percent more on individual policies, but have yet to do so for group/company policies.0 -
It's definitely insurance, my husband's job has the same thing. Except like another poster said, the non-smokers actually get a deduction, the smokers pay the full price.0
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Good for them.
Until they do it to fat people, THEN it's discrimination and bullying. Right?
:noway:
Well said!0 -
I think it's BS... if she's getting a clean bill of health from her doctor it's BS that they are charging her for something that could happen to her in her 40's 50's 60's 70's.... I haven't seen many 20 something's die from smoking cigs. And the way employment is today who is to say she will be working there long-term. Smoking has been demonized as a sin and there for that group can be targeted to be charged more. There are plenty of other groups that use more healthcare than the avg. but they are protected by claims of discrimination.0
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My opinion is it makes sense b/c smokers cost a company more in medical bills. I'm no doctor but I read that smokers will get sick easier than non-smokers, have a higher risk of developing cancers, heart disease (even if blood pressure is not high), and other diease that simply makes a smoker more expensive than an identical person who did not smoke.
I understand this thought but realistically -- alcoholism costs insurance companies & employers money, as does drug addiction or other ailments. Like smoking, they are addictions and I don't necessarily feel someone should be penalized for it. Its like charging someone more because they have diabetes... or my lymphedema cost the insurance company literally thousands upon thousands of dollars. Although I have no symptoms of it now... should I be paying more because those problems might return?
Or how about obese people... should they be charged more?0 -
i only smoke when i drink... so, i dont take breaks to smoke at work. and, i dont know where this money goes, i will learn more later. in my head, why not charge folks that are obese with awful eating habits & that are sedentary.
I think this will be coming as well. ... My husband smokes and my insurance has went up, I have to choose the option that he is a smoker, it increases our family and expenses to 1000.00 more deductable than it was. Even tho he does not smoke around any of us, he does not smoke in the cars, or in the house. I have threatened to drop him and let his own cover it he only has health and mine covers dental vision health and life.0 -
no, but they are charging because the medical problems for smokers cost more--not because they are making the guy next to them sick.
In truth, they probably should charge a premium for any unhealthy lifestyle choice.
and no I'm not a smoker. never have been in my life.0 -
I think it's a good idea.
Where I live, if you smoke, you get a smoke break. If you don't smoke, too bad for you!
the main reason my wife smoked in HS...as a waitress it's the only way she got a break "like everyone else".
I was in the cracker factory years ago and pretended to smoke so I could get up at night. Only smokers could. It is hard to pretend to smoke.
I "smoke" with my coworkers. Every time they go - I go outside with them for some "fresh air" haha! I agree that I shouldn't be punished for not smoking and thus not taking "smoke breaks"!
I don't agree that this employer is singling out smokers though - but that's insurance for ya!
If you only smoke when you drink maybe you should quit drinking .. just sayin
Cheers!0
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