Employer charging smokers.. Thoughts?
Replies
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Quit, problem solved. Why would you want to smoke anyway? As an ex smoker, I wish I had never!
Yeah not new though and yes, there are Insurance companies that charge for being over weight.0 -
i only smoke when i drink... so, i dont take breaks to smoke at work. and, i dont know where this money goes, i will learn more later. in my head, why not charge folks that are obese with awful eating habits & that are sedentary.
Never heard of someone getting fat sitting next to an overweight person.
GOOD POINT!! Haha, nicely said... and I agree0 -
I think it's a good idea.
Also, some insurance companies do offer an insentive for working out....go to the gym so many times per month, and they put like $20 into your checking account toward your gym membership or whatever....I love that!0 -
I have worked in the insurance industry for almost 20 years. Insurance (of any type) is based upon risk factors and the "probability" of a claim or payment. In general, data shows that "active" smokers have more long-term illnesses and are susceptible to ongoing illnesses more often (e.g., flu, bronchitis); in addition, "smoking" has been shown in clinical studies to be a direct risk factor in serious illnesses such as heart disease and cancer. While a person who is a smoker may not have been sick for 20 years, as a characteristic, it shows a higher probability of illness. This is how insurance rates are calculated.
The same pricing theory is applied to the prices charged for a 20 year-old versus a 60 year-old. Both may have experienced similar health histories (e.g., a 60 year-old with little to no health issues or major illnesses), but data shows that a 60 year-old person has a higher probability of near-term and more serious illness.
Most large companies who subscribe through group benefits insurance programs will charge an additional premium for smoking, or to say it in a different way, offer a deduction or lower rate for non-smokers. In addition, some companies will do the same for individuals with a high BMI. For my company, we are offered "credits" for our insurance if, as a smoker, you commit to going through a smoking cessation program during the year.
It's really just about paying for the "exposure" you present to the insurance company in terms of the likelihood of a claim being paid.
I think it makes sense...but, I come from the industry.
If you only smoke occassionally, I would not identify yourself as a smoker. Unless you're drinking/smoking multiple times a week.0 -
great idea...they should be charging overweight people too.0
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I think it's BS... if she's getting a clean bill of health from her doctor it's BS that they are charging her for something that could happen to her in her 40's 50's 60's 70's.... I haven't seen many 20 something's die from smoking cigs. And the way employment is today who is to say she will be working there long-term. Smoking has been demonized as a sin and there for that group can be targeted to be charged more. There are plenty of other groups that use more healthcare than the avg. but they are protected by claims of discrimination.
Are they protected? My husband pays more for life insurance because of his weight. I think it makes sense and encourages a healthier lifestyle. I think if I make healthy choices, I should get the benefit of cheaper insurance. Trust me, just because you dont see 20 year olds dying from smoking, doesn't mean much. The health costs as they age are so much more, and you can't undo the damage of 20 years of smoking. I do see your point about them feeling targeted though. i'm just waiting for my pepsi drinking to be the next target. That sugar has to be a health risk--but boy do I love it!0 -
The Company I used to work for is doing this. The thing is, several of the guys from there come to my house on the first Tuesday of every month for Cigar Night.
Our creed is now "If you didn't catch me with a cigar in my hand, I wasn't smoking one."
--followed by---
"If you caught me with a cigar in my hand, I wasn't smoking it. I'm just holding it for Road Dog. He had to take a leak."
My personal opinion is, don't make me lie to you by enacting such a dumb law.0 -
My employer has a comprehensive wellness plan... our head office location has it's own Weight Watchers meeting on site as well as a bootcamp, yoga and zumba classes during lunch hours. Every other week there is a lunch'n'learn seminar on almost any topic you can think of under the banner of wellness. I can call our EFAP (employee and family assistance program) and have a stress management, new parent, new caregiver or smoking cessation program sent to me. The smoking cessation pack includes the patch and nicorrette gum!!! We also have a dietician that we can book with. My employer wants healthy, productive employees and they figure that it's cheaper to provide this than have unhealthy or sick employees.
Insurance companies use huge actuary databases... you are not a person, you are a statistic. And they look at fat people the same way. The OP looks fairly young in the profile picture - do you know what your health will be in 20 years? Willing to guarantee it?0 -
great idea...they should be charging overweight people too.
I'm 5'10" 230"....
does that in and of itself make me overweight?0 -
Insurance companies charge companies more if there are smokers. Instead of making all the employees pay for the smokers, they charge each person.
I would ask if he's charging the obese extra as well, because that also cranks up your insurance. People who drink excessive amounts of alcohol? can he prove you've smoked in the last 12 months?0 -
great idea...they should be charging overweight people too.
I'm 5'10" 230"....
does that in and of itself make me overweight?
go to the dr and find out, they'll tell you your fat ratio, cholesterol level and all that fun stuff.0 -
My personal opinion is, don't make me lie to you by enacting such a dumb law.
From an insurance company perspective, smoking a cigar once a week would not meet the criteria of a regular "smoker". You and your buddies are safe to puff away
. 0 -
great idea...they should be charging overweight people too.
I'm 5'10" 230"....
does that in and of itself make me overweight?
Yep. Enjoy your higher premiums for the way you choose to live your life.
It's a sad day when people take the side of insurance companies over personal freedoms.0 -
great idea...they should be charging overweight people too.
I'm 5'10" 230"....
does that in and of itself make me overweight?
i dont know...whats your body fat percentage?
edit to add my guess is you are extremely overweight.0 -
One other point to consider when it comes to group benefits or employer-based insurance (particularly large companies). Generally, with these plans, insurance companies are not able to decline a person. That is, the employer buys a "group benefit" to make available to any/all employees. In the last several years, in order to a) keep coverage available to all employees and b) keep costs relatively manageable for both the employer and the employee, insurance companies have asked employers to build wellness strategies to help improve employee's health, thus lowering the probabillity of claims.
In many cases, people who are able to obtain insurance through their company (and are cranky about having to pay a bit more if they are a smoker, or are cranky they must take some sort of action to earn a "credit" for their insurance) would otherwise be DECLINED for a new policy if they were someone applying for insurance as an average citizen.
There are great benefits to having insurance coverage available through your employer. People have the freedom to smoke if they want to. Insurance companies have the freedom to charge a rate based on risk factors, which are based on science. No bullying, just data-based decisions.0 -
I've been looking for independent health insurance recently, as is a friend who is a smoker. I am a non-smoker and know that the rates provided in the basic insurance premium quotes are for non-smokers. My friend, on the other hand, has had to jump through hoops and authorize release of various medical records partly due to being a smoker. Plus his premiums are going to be higher. My guess is that it's covering the higher rate for the smokers. Your employer probably doesn't want to foot the extra cost of the insurance premiums for that handful of people.0
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great idea...they should be charging overweight people too.
I'm 5'10" 230"....
does that in and of itself make me overweight?
i dont know...whats your body fat percentage?
edit to add my guess is you are extremely overweight.
My body fat % was recently measured at 17% with an Omron at the gym (notoriously inaccurate, but usually high).0 -
great idea...they should be charging overweight people too.
I'm 5'10" 230"....
does that in and of itself make me overweight?
i dont know...whats your body fat percentage?
edit to add my guess is you are extremely overweight.
My body fat % was measured at 17% with an Omron at the gym (notoriously inaccurate, but usually high).
thats fantastic...so your rate shouldnt be elevated...but do you disagree that soemone who has a 50% bf should pay the same as you?0 -
i have been an occassional smoker for the last 20 years. I am now 41. At times, i do want to quit smoking. and, as someone mentioned, having a drink & smoking is nice. and, no, i dont want to quit drinking either. this past year, i visited a doctor 3 times. all routine check ups. and, similiar to the last 5 years with my current employer, primarily routine check ups. i know many coworkers don't even take the time to get routine check ups or physicals and/or are always sick, overweight, etc. I feel i am doing my part managing my health with preventive health care, keeping my weight down with exercise & diet. for pete's sake, i run the half marathon every year. i smoke, i am not perfect. but, damn... i am trying. this all new for me. so, i am feeling some frustration & i feel i am being targeted for my one "bad" health flaw.
thanks for all your thoughts.0 -
The insurance company charges those who smoke a higher premium. Your boss isn't ringing his hands making money of the choice of those who smoke. It's covering the cost of the higher premium. Insurance companies charge it because ultimately they have to pay more out in services to smokers. They also do charge those that are obese when it comes to life insurance. It costs nearly twice as much to take out a policy if you are not physically fit vs are.0
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My personal opinion is, don't make me lie to you by enacting such a dumb law.
From an insurance company perspective, smoking a cigar once a week would not meet the criteria of a regular "smoker". You and your buddies are safe to puff away.
yes, we were told in a general session that this will meet the criteria as "tobacco" user.0 -
I think it's BS... if she's getting a clean bill of health from her doctor it's BS that they are charging her for something that could happen to her in her 40's 50's 60's 70's.... I haven't seen many 20 something's die from smoking cigs. And the way employment is today who is to say she will be working there long-term. Smoking has been demonized as a sin and there for that group can be targeted to be charged more. There are plenty of other groups that use more healthcare than the avg. but they are protected by claims of discrimination.
Are they protected? My husband pays more for life insurance because of his weight. I think it makes sense and encourages a healthier lifestyle. I think if I make healthy choices, I should get the benefit of cheaper insurance. Trust me, just because you dont see 20 year olds dying from smoking, doesn't mean much. The health costs as they age are so much more, and you can't undo the damage of 20 years of smoking. I do see your point about them feeling targeted though. i'm just waiting for my pepsi drinking to be the next target. That sugar has to be a health risk--but boy do I love it!
I think you are missing my overall point. Odds that she is going to have some serious medical problem from smoking at her current job in her current "group" insurance are pretty poor. In fact there could be a million other reasons something could happen to her. So why in her current health, would she be charged more in her current "group" insurance?? If we had full on socialized medicine I can see everyone's point that in the long run she would cost us more, but in her current circumstances I think it's BS.
Should parents with kids in sports pay more?? They have a higher chance of getting a concussion that could lead to long-term medical problems.0 -
great idea...they should be charging overweight people too.
I'm 5'10" 230"....
does that in and of itself make me overweight?
Yep. Enjoy your higher premiums for the way you choose to live your life.
It's a sad day when people take the side of insurance companies over personal freedoms.
It's not a "personal freedoms" issue. It's a "cost of doing business" issue. The same theory can be applied to other types of insurance. A 20 year-old driver will be charged a higher rate than a 40 year-old driver regardless of record because data has shown that the 20 year-old demographic has a much higher probability of being in an accident.
Another example is having two people of the same age...one drives a Honda Accord and has had no speeding tickets or has never been in any accidents. The other driver drives an Audi A5 and had a speeding ticket 6 months ago, but has never been in an automobile accident. Though driver #2 hasn't cost the insurance company money, with driving a car that has an ability to go faster and a driver who already has illustrated a behavior that increases risk, the probability of a loss is increased, thus that driver will pay more in insurance premiums.
The same theory can be applied to smoking. Smoking is a "risky behavior". The riskier behavior is shown to increase the likelihood of illness and thus insurance claims. It's all numbers.0 -
My daughter has a friend (she's actually her second "mom" on the east coast) who is self employed and has to pay her own insurance costs. She is being charged a higher rate for having her BMI not within THEIR limits... I also worked at Duke about five years ago when they were willing to pay for smokers to take Chantix in an attempt to stop smoking. They closed the smoking area to hopefully deter from the habit, so everyone went out in front of the hospital to smoke instead. The place looked truly ghetto at that point with the entire street lined with smokers! O_o I have never smoked and have lost 50 pounds over the past year and 4 months or so so I think if it's the insurance companies, I suppose they can do what they want and to keep rates down, employers will comply! I don't have a problem with it, but then I don't have any insurance at the moment either since I am in school.0
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Simplest solution? Look for another job where the benefits package actually benefits you instead of hurting you.
I was job hunting a while back and got offered a position where they didn't give you actual "vacation" but you were offered "paid time off" that accrued as you worked. I turned down the position because of that one portion of their benefits package. In my mind it wasn't worth not knowing how much time I would get off up front and when. I stuck with my employer and went after a promotion.0 -
The insurance company charges those who smoke a higher premium. Your boss isn't ringing his hands making money of the choice of those who smoke. It's covering the cost of the higher premium. Insurance companies charge it because ultimately they have to pay more out in services to smokers. They also do charge those that are obese when it comes to life insurance. It costs nearly twice as much to take out a policy if you are not physically fit vs are.
Most people who are in the obese category are declined life insurance...it's hard to get.0 -
My personal opinion is, don't make me lie to you by enacting such a dumb law.
From an insurance company perspective, smoking a cigar once a week would not meet the criteria of a regular "smoker". You and your buddies are safe to puff away.
yes, we were told in a general session that this will meet the criteria as "tobacco" user.
I would just say you don't. That's pretty ridiculous. Besides, there are people there who NEVER smoke who are probably far more unhealthy or 'costly' than you with your rare cigarette and they will be paying nothing more.0 -
like someone else just said its no different than charging teens higher premiums for car insurance. higher risk...higher rate....blame the actuaries!
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:laugh: I've never either. But have heard of ppl dying of 2nd hand smoke! I think smoking trumps someone overweight because the 2nd hand smoke kills others, a burger won't hurt you unless you're eating it yourself. Sorry OP but that line you posted above was a bit lame, particularly using it on MFP. :noway:i only smoke when i drink... so, i dont take breaks to smoke at work. and, i dont know where this money goes, i will learn more later. in my head, why not charge folks that are obese with awful eating habits & that are sedentary.
Never heard of someone getting fat sitting next to an overweight person.
Well put!like someone else just said its no different than charging teens higher premiums for car insurance. higher risk...higher rate....blame the actuaries!0 -
There are great benefits to having insurance coverage available through your employer. People have the freedom to smoke if they want to. Insurance companies have the freedom to charge a rate based on risk factors, which are based on science. No bullying, just data-based decisions.
while it may not be classified as bullying, they're singling certain groups because it's PC. Imagine if all the obese people had to fork over extra cash? It would be a nightmare!0
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