Should insurance companies charge smokers?
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Being a former smoker as of a few months ago and an obese person no i dont think they should be charged more. But i dont think anyone should. When u think about it, insurance companies are a legal form of thievery. They take ur money, and rarely pay out. U still get a bill most of the time and have to jump thru hoops to get them to pay. Car insurance is a joke. Someone hits u or a deer runs out infront of u. They fix ur new car with junkyard parts. They are crooked ppl and frankly i pay more than enough each year without them charging me more.0
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Honestly, I don't think they should charge smokers more, but give incentives and provide services (which most insurances companies provide) to encourage healthy lifestyle choices, of which cessation of smoking could be the focus.
Do I think it will work, and people will utilize these resources? No. But I think they should be provided nonetheless.0 -
it was a joke but i'll play. what if they outlawed a certain type of gun and there was no grandfather clause. what if after your refusal to turn them in they(ATF?) came to collect them...would you really die for those guns? or would you hand them over?
Fair enough, I would hope it was a joke.
I'll let the cat out of the bag. I have often believed as things become illegal I will be stocking up before hand. Currently there is no gun registry in this country. The gov't does not know what guns I have..if any.
Items that become illegal would be stock piled, secured and hidden somewhere I have access to.0 -
You know obesity costs more and kills more, right?
How about changing extra to - everyone - who doesn't fit into healthy parameters.
The problem is there are in fact some legitimate genetic and health variables that can cause obesity. Smoking is just easy because it is an active bad choice.
"some " just because you're predisposed to being large doesn't mean you should give up and eat for crap. A physical and a few tests will show whether you're overweight because you choose to or not. If you choose to live outside healthy parameters, then cough it up.0 -
Honestly, I don't think they should charge smokers more, but give incentives and provide services (which most insurances companies provide) to encourage healthy lifestyle choices, of which cessation of smoking could be the focus.
Do I think it will work, and people will utilize these resources? No. But I think they should be provided nonetheless.
Just FYI, most health insurance companies have been doing that for years with very little return on the money they've invested in paying for and subsidizing those programs.
I have no problem with insurance companies charging more for smoking. I also have no problem with them charging more for people who are obese without sufficient medical documentation to prove that the obesity was caused be some medical problem.0 -
So what happens if and when it becomes illegal in the future? Will you tread on the rights of those who don't smoke?
Do people that smoke marijuana which is illegal tread on your rights now? And if you answer is yes then please explain what right is being tread upon?
Personally I couldn't care less if you smoked crack. But I'll bite. You're basis for this argument is that you don't believe that insurance costs should be raised because smoking is legal. Well, what about taxes? If you continue to smoke (and I assume you will) if and when it becomes illegal, you my friend will cause tax increase. Just as marijuana is a cost to tax payers. Do you have any idea what is costs in law enforcment to try and stop the marijuana market? Billions. That would increase substantially if you would continue to smoke tobacco. (Again, if and when they make it illegal for tobacco.) So, if that would happen should I pay more in taxes for you to have a drag?
But doesn't matter. Making it illegal would never happen and marijuana being illegal will always be a burden to the economy in my opinion.
Carry on.0 -
"some " just because you're predisposed to being large doesn't mean you should give up and eat for crap. A physical and a few tests will show whether you're overweight because you choose to or not. If you choose to live outside healthy parameters, then cough it up.
Can't say I argue that point. Especially considering being "skinny fat" is rather easy.0 -
Those are your words not mine. I do not want my liberties being trampled on by others that think they know what is best for me and other smokers. As far as life insurance, if you want to discuss that maybe another thread should be started and that topic be taken there.
the theory holds for life or health insurance. you are saying a high risk individual(obese, smoker etc..) should pay the same as someone who doesnt have those factors. that screams socialism. treat everyone the same...everyone pays the same...
i dont want to be told what i can and cant do either but i understand that if i am doing something dangerous i should have to pay more. like if i rack up speeding tickets...i should pay more for car insurance right? or is that an area where everyone should pay the same no matter what as well.
Now that post makes sense. Thanks for the clarification. The question today is about smokers. What about the others, people who drink arent charged more for personal insurance, should they be? What about motorcycle riders? I ride but my personal insurance doesnt reflect that. Why pick on smokers? Is it because it is the easiest thing to work on first?0 -
it was a joke but i'll play. what if they outlawed a certain type of gun and there was no grandfather clause. what if after your refusal to turn them in they(ATF?) came to collect them...would you really die for those guns? or would you hand them over?
Fair enough, I would hope it was a joke.
I'll let the cat out of the bag. I have often believed as things become illegal I will be stocking up before hand. Currently there is no gun registry in this country. The gov't does not know what guns I have..if any.
Items that become illegal would be stock piled, secured and hidden somewhere I have access to.
dont gun shops keep records of what guns they sell? in my hypo the govt outlaws a gun, lets call it the BFG9000, that you own. now they subpoena the stores that sold those guns...get your address....and here they come to get it back becaue they feel its too powerful for the general pop to have....you fight or hand it over?0 -
Honestly, I don't think they should charge smokers more, but give incentives and provide services (which most insurances companies provide) to encourage healthy lifestyle choices, of which cessation of smoking could be the focus.
Do I think it will work, and people will utilize these resources? No. But I think they should be provided nonetheless.
Just FYI, most health insurance companies have been doing that for years with very little return on the money they've invested in paying for and subsidizing those programs.
I have no problem with insurance companies charging more for smoking. I also have no problem with them charging more for people who are obese without sufficient medical documentation to prove that the obesity was caused be some medical problem.
I know - I admitted that most Insurance companies already provide these services in the OP. Just like I freely admitted that I don't think these services would be utilized. But I appreciate the fact that they are available for those that should chose to use them.0 -
They have no proof I didn't sell it. They are not welcome in my home.
"Go away and come back with a warrant."0 -
Those are your words not mine. I do not want my liberties being trampled on by others that think they know what is best for me and other smokers. As far as life insurance, if you want to discuss that maybe another thread should be started and that topic be taken there.
the theory holds for life or health insurance. you are saying a high risk individual(obese, smoker etc..) should pay the same as someone who doesnt have those factors. that screams socialism. treat everyone the same...everyone pays the same...
i dont want to be told what i can and cant do either but i understand that if i am doing something dangerous i should have to pay more. like if i rack up speeding tickets...i should pay more for car insurance right? or is that an area where everyone should pay the same no matter what as well.
Now that post makes sense. Thanks for the clarification. The question today is about smokers. What about the others, people who drink arent charged more for personal insurance, should they be? What about motorcycle riders? I ride but my personal insurance doesnt reflect that. Why pick on smokers? Is it because it is the easiest thing to work on first?
its not just smokers, its the obese as well. and im sure there are other things that factor into it as well. and since smoking and obesity are two of (if not the top two) biggest killers they should be the most obvious ones to target first.0 -
Yes, because it's politically correct to pick on them. I wonder what group the will tax to death when you can't even afford to smoke
Those are your words not mine. I do not want my liberties being trampled on by others that think they know what is best for me and other smokers. As far as life insurance, if you want to discuss that maybe another thread should be started and that topic be taken there.
the theory holds for life or health insurance. you are saying a high risk individual(obese, smoker etc..) should pay the same as someone who doesnt have those factors. that screams socialism. treat everyone the same...everyone pays the same...
i dont want to be told what i can and cant do either but i understand that if i am doing something dangerous i should have to pay more. like if i rack up speeding tickets...i should pay more for car insurance right? or is that an area where everyone should pay the same no matter what as well.
Now that post makes sense. Thanks for the clarification. The question today is about smokers. What about the others, people who drink arent charged more for personal insurance, should they be? What about motorcycle riders? I ride but my personal insurance doesnt reflect that.
Why pick on smokers? Is it because it is the easiest thing to work on first?0 -
Being a former smoker as of a few months ago and an obese person no i dont think they should be charged more. But i dont think anyone should. When u think about it, insurance companies are a legal form of thievery. They take ur money, and rarely pay out. U still get a bill most of the time and have to jump thru hoops to get them to pay. Car insurance is a joke. Someone hits u or a deer runs out infront of u. They fix ur new car with junkyard parts. They are crooked ppl and frankly i pay more than enough each year without them charging me more.
insurance companies are just a business. there is no "right" to insurance. If you owned an insurance business your main goal is to make money. If someone wants to smoke and thereby increase the possibility that they will need medical care, why wouldnt the insurance company charge them more?
a better way to look at it is that the non smokers pay less because they are not increasing their risk level..0 -
Once one thing gets added (smoking or obese) then who is make them stop at anything?
If you drink soda, extra
Eat fast food, extra
Drive fast or recklessly...
If you have sex with more than 1 person, ever...
if you DRINK
Are you taking vitamins?
The list can go on forever....
And once we let them control this, they will start to control more.
Yes, it's a choice - just like everything else in this world. But it's a personal choice and as long as your not forcing your decision on someone unwilling, then it's your choice.
Having someone else dictate what you can and can not do, or better yet, punish you for what someone else considers a bad thing, is letting people have more control over your life that ANYBODY should be conformable with.
And as to Obamacare... it isn't a fix, it could be worse and there are some things that would benefit a lot of people. I am WAITING for 2014 so the preexisting condition clause is struck - then my genetic disorder that they found when I was 10 can be treated. I didn't cause it, I was BORN with it because of the genes my parents had, so kinda not my fault, but yet I'm punished for it.
(PS: i don't smoke, I am loosing weight, i have a HMO thru my company because my hubby needs it for his disorder, I don't even get to use it)0 -
They have no proof I didn't sell it. They are not welcome in my home.
"Go away and come back with a warrant."
they already have the warrant. you have not responded to their letters asking for you to turn it in. or you have told them that you will not...so they are coming to search your home.
i just want to know if you really would shoot it out over something like that. to do so would seem insane to me.0 -
Honestly, I don't think they should charge smokers more, but give incentives and provide services (which most insurances companies provide) to encourage healthy lifestyle choices, of which cessation of smoking could be the focus.
Do I think it will work, and people will utilize these resources? No. But I think they should be provided nonetheless.
Just FYI, most health insurance companies have been doing that for years with very little return on the money they've invested in paying for and subsidizing those programs.
I have no problem with insurance companies charging more for smoking. I also have no problem with them charging more for people who are obese without sufficient medical documentation to prove that the obesity was caused be some medical problem.
I know - I admitted that most Insurance companies already provide these services in the OP. Just like I freely admitted that I don't think these services would be utilized. But I appreciate the fact that they are available for those that should chose to use them.
The point I was making that I didn't make very clearly in my reply is that health insurance companies are a for-profit business, so they aren't going to provide those services for long if they don't help in generating a profit (increasing revenue or reducing costs). This is why they are now going to the route of simply charging more for lifestyle choices that increase the likelihood of payout on the patient engaging in those behaviors.0 -
There is tons of long term data available to show that smokers have higher incidence of poor health in one form or another: cardiovascular, pulmonary, etc. Even the families of those who smoke in the house or around their family members are sicker. I've known kids of smokers to have recurrent episodes of upper respiratory infections and other joys that just don't occur as often in families without a smoker. Obviously this is not an all inclusive rule, but observable all the same.
I don't agree with trying to tread on people's liberties. Allow people to smoke, keep their guns. But any financial advisor would tell an insurance company that the smokers are going to cost them extra. It is good business to increase rates on the smokers.
As far as obesity goes, yes....there are those that eat so poorly as to be solely responsible for their weight. There are those that truly struggle, and it would be a far more difficult case to prove responsibility. I don't work in insurance, so I don't know whether they ALL charge more for obesity, but I can see why there would be differences.
All occupations and recreational activities can be hazardous. At some point it just becomes "everyone breathing" as someone said above. So for health insurance I don't think that occupational/recreational factors should play. But life insurance.....if you routinely do something ridiculously hazardous then you have to expect them to charge more. Again....just smart business.
In the end, these are for-profit businesses. They need to pay employees, cover the rent, pay taxes, just like every other business.
JMO0 -
i am angry with this post, yet amused at the same time..i have a lot to say about it all, but i dont have energy for it all now (lucky you) all i wanna say is at my last job..all of them actually, smoking was most definitely a choice, and allowed, but only in designated areas, and had to be sprayed (lysol, cologne, etc) before the re-entered the building..maybe the price should be higher, but not by much..besides, doesnt insurance cost an @$$ of money, but when there is a car accident, or a death, the insureance doesnt pay much back ? i think its all a damn rip off, but its the law, so whatta ya gonna do ?0
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My two cents, as a recently quit smoker. I don't think people should be penalized for having a habit, because where do you draw the line. If that is the case then drinking should be deemed the same.
I do agree with the smokers taking a zillion breaks, when i smoked i had my elevensies and my 3ish break and only ate lunch on the run while working, so those were my only breaks, but i have had part timers work for me who were ducking out every 20 minutes and their work would suffer, so i do agree with having to clock in and out for smoke breaks. As well i think smokers should make sure they don't reek of cigarette smoke since that also reflects on the company and who wants to deal with someone who completely smells.
Although as far as work banning it, I don't see how they can fire someone for smoking, it's not their business really, but my boss asked me to quit cause he is a health nut and when i finally did, he gave me incentive by giving me a raise for quitting and staying quit which I thought was really cool. I think if a company has a problem with a smoker like that other bosses should do the same type of incentive.0 -
My two cents, as a recently quit smoker. I don't think people should be penalized for having a habit, because where do you draw the line. If that is the case then drinking should be deemed the same.
I do agree with the smokers taking a zillion breaks, when i smoked i had my elevensies and my 3ish break and only ate lunch on the run while working, so those were my only breaks, but i have had part timers work for me who were ducking out every 20 minutes and their work would suffer, so i do agree with having to clock in and out for smoke breaks. As well i think smokers should make sure they don't reek of cigarette smoke since that also reflects on the company and who wants to deal with someone who completely smells.
Although as far as work banning it, I don't see how they can fire someone for smoking, it's not their business really, but my boss asked me to quit cause he is a health nut and when i finally did, he gave me incentive by giving me a raise for quitting and staying quit which I thought was really cool. I think if a company has a problem with a smoker like that other bosses should do the same type of incentive.
Soooo..were the non-smokers getting paid more than you? Did they also recieve a raise for no longer having to suffer from second hand smoke? Sorry I just don't understand the sense of entitlement for kicking a habit.0 -
they already have the warrant. you have not responded to their letters asking for you to turn it in. or you have told them that you will not...so they are coming to search your home.
i just want to know if you really would shoot it out over something like that. to do so would seem insane to me.
Why is it insane? Where is the line? At what point do we say enough to the tyranny? I don't live in Europe, Afghanistan, China, etc because I don't want to. It might very well be worth fighting and dying for.
Did you know we in America are the only country in the WORLD that has the freedom of speech. Most other countries are worried about hurting someone feelings and speech is limited as such. We are more worried about our rights than others feelings.
Our rights are worth fighting for.0 -
I understand why people feel that smokers should be charged more. But what concerns me is where does it stop? Should you be charged more because your spouse is a smoker...we all know about second hand smoke. What if you were raised in a home with a parent who smoked? Also how many people are completely honest when they answer the questions asked by insurance companies. Unless you are required to have a physical which includes testing to show you are drug, alcohol and smoke free how does anyone know for sure? Look how many people lie about their weight on their drivers liscence. Personally i know plenty of people who appear to be in a normal weight range but who have terrible eating habits. My mother in law wasnt fat by any means but she died from a heart attack that resulted from multiple blockages which no doubt came from her high fat, starchy sodium laden diet.
What about alcohol?? So many people bash smokers but have no problem knocking back alcoholic beverages on a frequent basis. Just because they don't perceive themselves as having a drinking problem then they assume they aren't adding to their health risk!! I have a few friends who fall into this catergory....once again they appear to be of normal weight and healthy but i'd wager that their livers arent doing so good.0 -
they already have the warrant. you have not responded to their letters asking for you to turn it in. or you have told them that you will not...so they are coming to search your home.
i just want to know if you really would shoot it out over something like that. to do so would seem insane to me.
Why is it insane? Where is the line? At what point do we say enough to the tyranny? I don't live in Europe, Afghanistan, China, etc because I don't want to. It might very well be worth fighting and dying for.
Did you know we in America are the only country in the WORLD that has the freedom of speech. Most other countries are worried about hurting someone feelings and speech is limited as such. We are more worried about our rights than others feelings.
Our rights are worth fighting for.
to me its insane to die for a gun...and there are plenty of countries that have freedom of speech. stop getting all your info from Fox News.0 -
to me its insane to die for a gun...and there are plenty of countries that have freedom of speech. stop getting all your info from Fox News.
Actually got that from your liberal public media. And just because you don't think personal rights are worth fighting for and are willing to bend over and let the gov't stick it to you doesn't mean the rest of us are so willing.0 -
to me its insane to die for a gun...and there are plenty of countries that have freedom of speech. stop getting all your info from Fox News.
Actually got that from your liberal public media. And just because you don't think personal rights are worth fighting for and are willing to bend over and let the gov't stick it to you doesn't mean the rest of us are so willing.
lol im no liberal. the sad thing is no matter where you heard it you believed it.0 -
Should insurance companies charge people who smoke MORE money? Would it be right for an employer to ban their employees from smoking, and treat cigarettes like they would any other drug like marijuana?
I think smokers should be charged extra, as their choice in doing something harmful to their body can and most likely will result in major health problems. I also think it should be banned from any and all workplaces (make it a terminable offense). OR if they are allowed to smoke, they should have to clock in and out for their breaks. It's stupid how they can take several 10-15 minute breaks/day, while the rest of us have a 30 min break at lunch.
Let's start rewarding people who make healthy decisions, and start making people who choose to damage their own bodies pay up.
How Judgemental. I love when people punish an ENTIRE group of people for something SOME people in a group do. I am a smoker. I don't take extra breaks. Half the time, I don't even clock out to eat lunch. You think I should be fired from my job, because I participate in a LEGAL activity, work the same amount of hours as my coworkers, and take the breaks that I am legally entitled to? No - it's not right to treat tobacco the same as marijuana. Would you like to know why? Because in this country, tobacco is legal. Marijuana is NOT. Don't like it? Write a letter to your congressman. Change the laws. Until then, please keep your judgmental ideas to yourself.0 -
My company already does these things...Smoking is banned on all property, new hires are tested for nicotine along with the standard drug test, and smokers are charged more for their insurance...so there ya go.0
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This is why we need a socialist based health system! You can't charge people more based on freedom based life choices! Smoking is not illegal folks don't act like it is! Our insurance companies are in a bad enough state! I was DENIED independent health care while I was still a full time student but too old for my parents plans...WHY? Because I was seeking treatment from a nuerologist for disabeling migraines. Can you just imagine the $h!t storm that would have happened if they found out I was a smoker at that time too? They would probably have tried to have me locked up! Until smoking is against the law, we can't penalize people for making a perfectly legal choice. Its unconstitutional. Much like my HIGHER costs than the men in my job because I am at the baby making age...BS, unconstitutional!0
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This is why we need a socialist based health system! You can't charge people more based on freedom based life choices! Smoking is not illegal folks don't act like it is! Our insurance companies are in a bad enough state! I was DENIED independent health care while I was still a full time student but too old for my parents plans...WHY? Because I was seeking treatment from a nuerologist for disabeling migraines. Can you just imagine the $h!t storm that would have happened if they found out I was a smoker at that time too? They would probably have tried to have me locked up! Until smoking is against the law, we can't penalize people for making a perfectly legal choice. Its unconstitutional. Much like my HIGHER costs than the men in my job because I am at the baby making age...BS, unconstitutional!
dramatic much?
why do we penalize a 16 year old on his car insurance? is that unconstituional too? LOL if you willingly take on extra risk in your life you have to pay.
it amazes me how few people understand how insurance works and that insurance companies are for profit.0
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