Paleo diet, crazy or worth it?

WendyTerry420

Ok, I don't think it was the Harvard study. But I did find this one: http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1103993

This one is saying that calories are what matter in terms of fat storage and that getting enough dietary protein helped insure LBM maintenance.


I am not sure if the above study is the same one, but it basically makes the same point. What I was remembering was cited in NROLFW, so I will look at the book again to get the citation. It might be the same one, but I didn't file away the citation in my brain.

Fitby31

Hang on, before any more arguing, May I suggest you both step shirtless into this pit of mud...

LMAO - I second this!

WendyTerry420

Hang on, before any more arguing, May I suggest you both step shirtless into this pit of mud...

LMAO - I second this!

:laugh:

conchita962

Hang on, before any more arguing, May I suggest you both step shirtless into this pit of mud...

I second that motion!!!

BAHHH AHAHAHHAHAA

amy1612

Teehee *sleazy*:happy:


Abbsy Baabsy, Im not suggesting this IS the reason that you had problems, but its the reason I think a lot do. People will NOT eat enough when trying to do paleo/primal. I tried following Tim Ferris's 4 hour body a while back, and was just so tired and lacking energy, so I went back to grains and my energy went up. I just wasnt eating enough to fuel myself and my workouts. When I decided to try paleo I made a conscious effort to eat more food, especially calorie dense foods like nuts and avocados. Ive never had energy problems so far, and actually have more energy (dont get mid afternoon slump anymore). Im not suggesting you try it again, or anything, but I do think a lot of people dont necessarily fuel themselves correctly, and that becomes an issue.

caribougal

Teehee *sleazy*:happy:


Abbsy Baabsy, Im not suggesting this IS the reason that you had problems, but its the reason I think a lot do. People will NOT eat enough when trying to do paleo/primal. I tried following Tim Ferris's 4 hour body a while back, and was just so tired and lacking energy, so I went back to grains and my energy went up. I just wasnt eating enough to fuel myself and my workouts. When I decided to try paleo I made a conscious effort to eat more food, especially calorie dense foods like nuts and avocados. Ive never had energy problems so far, and actually have more energy (dont get mid afternoon slump anymore). Im not suggesting you try it again, or anything, but I do think a lot of people dont necessarily fuel themselves correctly, and that becomes an issue.

I agree. When I first started, I felt very lethargic from about day 3 through day 10. Looking back on it, I think it was partially due getting used to eating fewer carbs, but was also likely due to the fact that I still was "dieting" like I had been, eating low carb, but also low cal, and low fat. I was starving, cranky, and tired. I hadn't yet learned that fat is actually OK and to not be afraid of it. I'm glad I pushed through that rocky first couple of weeks. Like the above poster, that may not have been the issue at all, but for me I realize I did not eat enough in the beginning.

caribougal

It's basically the "new" adkins diet. Good luck with that

It has nothing to do with Atkins. Compared to SAD, or WW, they are both low carb / high fat... that's the only similarity between the two.

Atkins has 4 phases, recommends ketosis for Phase 1, no fruit in Phase 1, and doesn't care what chemical crap you eat, including sugar substitutes.

Paleo/Primal can be low carb, especially if you're trying to lose weight, but when on maintenance it's generally moderate carb (100g - 150g/day). Some people aim for ketosis, but that has nothing to do with eating Paleo/Primal.

Paleo stresses high quality and well-sourced veg, fruit, meat, and eliminates processed foods, added sugars, sugar substitutes, grains, legumes, soy.

Atkins doesn't really care what you eat, and Atkins company is happy to sell you processed frankenfood. I did Atkins 10 years ago. When I started, I bought all the stupid Atkins products.. bars, that awful pancake syrup, ate Slim Jims... Blech. It worked for me then when all I cared about was weight loss and not health. Not for me now.

bcattoes

I am not sure if the above study is the same one, but it basically makes the same point. What I was remembering was cited in NROLFW, so I will look at the book again to get the citation. It might be the same one, but I didn't file away the citation in my brain.

Most of the studies or meta-analysis of studies show that exercise is the biggest factor in maintain muscle while losing weight. Protein will likely help, but I don't beleive it is the key. Eating high protein without exercise probably won't make a whole lot of difference in muscle loss during weight loss.

Edited after reading further

WendyTerry420

It's basically the "new" adkins diet. Good luck with that

It has nothing to do with Atkins. Compared to SAD, or WW, they are both low carb / high fat... that's the only similarity between the two.

Atkins has 4 phases, recommends ketosis for Phase 1, no fruit in Phase 1, and doesn't care what chemical crap you eat, including sugar substitutes.

Paleo/Primal can be low carb, especially if you're trying to lose weight, but when on maintenance it's generally moderate carb (100g - 150g/day). Some people aim for ketosis, but that has nothing to do with eating Paleo/Primal.

Paleo stresses high quality and well-sourced veg, fruit, meat, and eliminates processed foods, added sugars, sugar substitutes, grains, legumes, soy.

Atkins doesn't really care what you eat, and Atkins company is happy to sell you processed frankenfood. I did Atkins 10 years ago. When I started, I bought all the stupid Atkins products.. bars, that awful pancake syrup, ate Slim Jims... Blech. It worked for me then when all I cared about was weight loss and not health. Not for me now.

That's not actually true. My mom did Adkins and she was not allowed to eat carbs. It is a keto diet, just like paleo and South Beach. She would eat a slab of ribs, but then said she couldn't have even one slice of bread to go with it. She even had to limit her fruit intake on that one.

WendyTerry420

I think it was the 2003 Harvard study. I would have to look it up again. I could be remembering wrong. It was basically saying that the groups that did high protein did the best at losing/maintaining. Some had more carbs and some had more fat. But the conclusion was that it is best to do *at least* 25% protein. While fats/carbs can play a larger role with body recomp when near maintenance levels, they are irrelevant in terms of fat oxidation when in a caloric deficit.

Edit: Actually, I think it was moderate protein, but the point was where protein should be between 25-30%

How long was the study, what were the different groups, and what was the margin of difference between the groups?

You may have missed the link I posted after this comment:

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1103993

Here is the abstract:

Context The role of diet composition in response to overeating and energy dissipation in humans is unclear.

Objective To evaluate the effects of overconsumption of low, normal, and high protein diets on weight gain, energy expenditure, and body composition.

Design, Setting, and Participants A single-blind, randomized controlled trial of 25 US healthy, weight-stable male and female volunteers, aged 18 to 35 years with a body mass index between 19 and 30. The first participant was admitted to the inpatient metabolic unit in June 2005 and the last in October 2007.

Intervention After consuming a weight-stabilizing diet for 13 to 25 days, participants were randomized to diets containing 5% of energy from protein (low protein), 15% (normal protein), or 25% (high protein), which they were overfed during the last 8 weeks of their 10- to 12-week stay in the inpatient metabolic unit. Compared with energy intake during the weight stabilization period, the protein diets provided approximately 40% more energy intake, which corresponds to 954 kcal/d (95% CI, 884-1022 kcal/d).

Main Outcome Measures Body composition was measured by dual-energy x-ray absorptiometry biweekly, resting energy expenditure was measured weekly by ventilated hood, and total energy expenditure by doubly labeled water prior to the overeating and weight stabilization periods and at weeks 7 to 8.

Results Overeating produced significantly less weight gain in the low protein diet group (3.16 kg; 95% CI, 1.88-4.44 kg) compared with the normal protein diet group (6.05 kg; 95% CI, 4.84-7.26 kg) or the high protein diet group (6.51 kg; 95% CI, 5.23-7.79 kg) (P = .002). Body fat increased similarly in all 3 protein diet groups and represented 50% to more than 90% of the excess stored calories. Resting energy expenditure, total energy expenditure, and body protein did not increase during overfeeding with the low protein diet. In contrast, resting energy expenditure (normal protein diet: 160 kcal/d [95% CI, 102-218 kcal/d]; high protein diet: 227 kcal/d [95% CI, 165-289 kcal/d]) and body protein (lean body mass) (normal protein diet: 2.87 kg [95% CI, 2.11-3.62 kg]; high protein diet: 3.18 kg [95% CI, 2.37-3.98 kg]) increased significantly with the normal and high protein diets.

Conclusions Among persons living in a controlled setting, calories alone account for the increase in fat; protein affected energy expenditure and storage of lean body mass, but not body fat storage.

WendyTerry420

I am not sure if the above study is the same one, but it basically makes the same point. What I was remembering was cited in NROLFW, so I will look at the book again to get the citation. It might be the same one, but I didn't file away the citation in my brain.

Most of the studies or meta-analysis of studies show that exercise is the biggest factor in maintain muscle while losing weight. Protein will likely help, but I don't beleive it is the key. Eating high protein without exercise probably won't make a whole lot of difference in muscle loss during weight loss.

Edited after reading further

That makes sense as well. For myself, I am making sure I do both to have my bases covered.

castlerobber

Atkins doesn't really care what you eat, and Atkins company is happy to sell you processed frankenfood. I did Atkins 10 years ago. When I started, I bought all the stupid Atkins products.. bars, that awful pancake syrup, ate Slim Jims... Blech.

Unfortunately true. The original (1972) Atkins diet didn't allow all the processed junk, IIRC. That came along later. It changed even more after Dr. Atkins died. The "Atkins" diet now, as according to the latest book, looks more like the South Beach diet to me.

castlerobber

That's not actually true. My mom did Adkins and she was not allowed to eat carbs. It is a keto diet, just like paleo and South Beach. She would eat a slab of ribs, but then said she couldn't have even one slice of bread to go with it. She even had to limit her fruit intake on that one.

Atkins does start as a ketogenic diet, but isn't intended to stay at <= 20g carbs forever. There's a very detailed "carb ladder" of what order to add carbs back in, how much, and when. Higher-carb fruits, starchy vegetables and whole grains are the last to be added, and only once the person has reached their goal weight. Some Atkins-type dieters choose to stay in the initial phase longer.

bostonwolf

I do Primal/Slow Carb and will agree with the posters above in that you need to be very careful to insure you eat enough calories. Ferriss actually specifically says you need to be eating beans for the caloric load.

Do that and add some healthy fats and it's a great way to eat that is easy to stick to.

sweetalker

Any diet that tells you to completely avoid certain foods is ridiculous. That's according to my doctor, and IMHO. Your body is an amazing machine, it will tell you what it needs and what is best for it.

zeebruhgirl

Worth it, 62 days and 15.5 pounds and I've NEVER felt better. After 30 days I started expanding on foods to allow primal, but it's so great.

jasharp021

Ive briefly read a few comments... to start.. watching/changing what you eat to be healthier isn't a diet.. it's a lifestyle change. making the choice to eat less processed foods.. is a change and a change for the better. the golden rule is 80/20.. If you can eat paleo-like for 80% of the time.. you will feel great, see changes in energy, etc. The 20% is for days/times when you want to have a few drinks, special occasions, can't be paleo.

I've always been a healthy eater.. when I switched to paleo I didn't lose weight but LOST INCHES. In 30 days, I lost a total of 4 inches (I also was active - running, crossfit). I've felt better and notice how bad I feel when I eat processed foods. There are some days where I want an ice cream or xyz and I will have some (some being the key word).

You are eating veggies, protein, fruit and nuts (watch intake for fruit/nuts if you want to loose weight). Seems a heck of a lot better than frozen meals & preservatives. It is time consuming.. so be prepared. You have to rely on making meals and having left overs. Grocery shopping will change since the items aren't going to last you weeks (aka bread, pasta, rice, etc).

bcattoes

Ive briefly read a few comments... to start.. watching/changing what you eat to be healthier isn't a diet.. it's a lifestyle change. making the choice to eat less processed foods.. is a change and a change for the better. the golden rule is 80/20.. If you can eat paleo-like for 80% of the time.. you will feel great, see changes in energy, etc. The 20% is for days/times when you want to have a few drinks, special occasions, can't be paleo.

I've always been a healthy eater.. when I switched to paleo I didn't lose weight but LOST INCHES. In 30 days, I lost a total of 4 inches (I also was active - running, crossfit). I've felt better and notice how bad I feel when I eat processed foods. There are some days where I want an ice cream or xyz and I will have some (some being the key word).

You are eating veggies, protein, fruit and nuts (watch intake for fruit/nuts if you want to loose weight). Seems a heck of a lot better than frozen meals & preservatives. It is time consuming.. so be prepared. You have to rely on making meals and having left overs. Grocery shopping will change since the items aren't going to last you weeks (aka bread, pasta, rice, etc).

I think you are on the right track with your diet. And that's what it is, whether you choose to call it that or not. Watching/changing what you eat to be healthier absolutely is a diet, whether it changes or lifestyle or not.

You don't have to follow a Paleo diet ever to give up frozen meals, preservatives or other processed foods. And you don't have to follow a Paleo diet to prepare healthy meals at home. Lots of people do that while still eating pasta, legumes and whole grains.

While it may well be healthy, I wouldn't consider someone that follows a Paleo diet 80% of the time to be "following" it all. Though I do wonder if there is anyone that is able to follow it 100% of the time. in nearly every paleo thread I've seen even the most die hard Paleo pushers will sooner or later admit to eating grains on occasion. Most will say this is because grains are evil and make our body crave them. But I must wonder if it's because our bodies function better with them. I eat whole grains in some form nearly every day and never crave them. Perhaps that's because my body is already getting what it needs.

caribougal

Any diet that tells you to completely avoid certain foods is ridiculous. That's according to my doctor, and IMHO. Your body is an amazing machine, it will tell you what it needs and what is best for it.

My body told me it really wanted bagels every morning. And candy after lunch. And ice cream after dinner. It told me I wanted to snack all day long. If there is sugar in my diet, I don't trust a damned thing my body tells me.

Now that I have eliminated foods with added sugars most of the time, I trust my body more. Except for coffee. It tells me I really need coffee.

WendyTerry420

That's not actually true. My mom did Adkins and she was not allowed to eat carbs. It is a keto diet, just like paleo and South Beach. She would eat a slab of ribs, but then said she couldn't have even one slice of bread to go with it. She even had to limit her fruit intake on that one.

Atkins does start as a ketogenic diet, but isn't intended to stay at <= 20g carbs forever. There's a very detailed "carb ladder" of what order to add carbs back in, how much, and when. Higher-carb fruits, starchy vegetables and whole grains are the last to be added, and only once the person has reached their goal weight. Some Atkins-type dieters choose to stay in the initial phase longer.

I don't remember how long she did it, but long enough to annoy the hell out of me. She was still over-eating by any standard and thought it was ok because "the book says" just don't eat carbs and you'll lose. (My mom has tried just about every diet there is, other than moderation.)