Paleo diet, crazy or worth it?
Replies
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It is horrible for your health. You will likely lose weight, but you will have a plethora of health problems if you choose this long term. I know there are people who swear by it, but there are plenty of long term studies that find it is not a good long term solution.0
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It is horrible for your health. You will likely lose weight, but you will have a plethora of health problems if you choose this long term. I know there are people who swear by it, but there are plenty of long term studies that find it is not a good long term solution.
Why?0 -
It's basically the "new" adkins diet. Good luck with that0
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It only works if you wear animal skins and use a flint tipped spear to hunt your meat.....
you also must discuss your hunting techniques over a broadband internet connection
BAHAAHHAAHAHH (I heart intelligent response on MFP!)0 -
I have read a lot on this subject and the conclusion I have come to is that the paleo diet is unsustainable and a fad diet. That's just my opinion, what can I say. There is plenty on the internet for you to google about it.0
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That makes sense.
I read this post a while ago... her take is you can be vegetarian and Primal. But it's harder to be vegetarian and Paleo (no dairy) and very hard to be Vegan and Paleo. You'd end up eating a lot of your protein from nuts, which would make it very high cal and lots of phytates. It's interesting to read the comments on her post from people who are vegetarian/Paleo or vegan/Paleo. It can be done, but it seems with some tradeoffs.
http://www.paleoplan.com/2012/06-28/can-a-vegetarian-or-vegan-be-paleo/
Dairy is allowed on Paleo if your body is tolerant and RAW dairy is recommended.
Why does everyone keep saying that there is no dairy on Paleo? I enjoy some raw cheese, raw butter and cream on a fairly regular basis.0 -
Wait, didn't you say you eat raw meat??? Hardly what I'd call vegetarian...Look at a list of the foods you wont be allowed to eat. beans, etc. now ask yourself if you can handle that long term.
If you can, go for it.
i read this list of no-go foods and laughed. my main proteins in about half my meals are on the ban list. beans, nuts, cheese-im a vegetarian and that would leave me eating very little.
I would never last either! I'm also a vegetarian (20+ years) and there's no way I could give up beans, nuts or cheese!!!! I'd starve!!:laugh:
I agree. While there are some Paleo vegetarians, it is VERY DIFFICULT. I would not recommend Paleo for someone who want to remain a vegetarian.
Sometimes I border on a Paleo Vegetarian with my eating. I don't find it difficult at all.
However, I could not a vegan Paleo - that would be very hard to do and I do like meat. I just like vegetables and fruits more.
I eat a lot of fat from coconut on those days and my protein comes from Hemp hearts and then eat loads of vegetables, nuts and some fruit. Home made yogurt is also a good protein source.
I never said I was a vegetarian. I stated that I SOMETIMES border on vegetarian. Which means I do enjoy some vegetarian days.
I eat plenty of protein, fat and vegetables. Read what I wrote.0 -
I know what you said. And I am saying that eating the occasional meatless meal is not vegetarianism. For many people, it is much an ethic as it is a diet. Please respect that.
Wait, didn't you say you eat raw meat??? Hardly what I'd call vegetarian...Look at a list of the foods you wont be allowed to eat. beans, etc. now ask yourself if you can handle that long term.
If you can, go for it.
i read this list of no-go foods and laughed. my main proteins in about half my meals are on the ban list. beans, nuts, cheese-im a vegetarian and that would leave me eating very little.
I would never last either! I'm also a vegetarian (20+ years) and there's no way I could give up beans, nuts or cheese!!!! I'd starve!!:laugh:
I agree. While there are some Paleo vegetarians, it is VERY DIFFICULT. I would not recommend Paleo for someone who want to remain a vegetarian.
Sometimes I border on a Paleo Vegetarian with my eating. I don't find it difficult at all.
However, I could not a vegan Paleo - that would be very hard to do and I do like meat. I just like vegetables and fruits more.
I eat a lot of fat from coconut on those days and my protein comes from Hemp hearts and then eat loads of vegetables, nuts and some fruit. Home made yogurt is also a good protein source.
I never said I was a vegetarian. I stated that I SOMETIMES border on vegetarian. Which means I do enjoy some vegetarian days.
I eat plenty of protein, fat and vegetables. Read what I wrote.0 -
It all depends on the outlook of yourself and your family. I do think it's benefits are overstated because it's the latest fad and mostly based on empirical evidence, so make sure you do a lot of research from a variety of sources (not just pro- or anti- paleo sites) before you decide.
Personally, I have a major problem with rules and restrictions. Because of this, I know that I would never be happy trying to stick to a diet that excluded certain items or have a lot of restrictions. I use the "if it fits my macros" approach, so I allow myself to enjoy any/all foods in moderation. I do try to eat healthy, but it's easier to stick to my plan when I allow myself to occasionally enjoy less healthy foods as long as they fit my calorie and protein/carb/fat goals.0 -
I think this diet is horribly misnamed. I'm pretty sure paleo/primal man did not keep domestic cows and chickens, so if you were actually following a paelo/primal diet, you wouldn't ingest dairy and probably not eggs, either (though it's possible they stole eggs from wild birds. I don't know.).
And fruit would be more plentiful than vegetables.
Follow whatever diet you like, but the name is extremely misleading.0 -
It is horrible for your health. You will likely lose weight, but you will have a plethora of health problems if you choose this long term. I know there are people who swear by it, but there are plenty of long term studies that find it is not a good long term solution.
Are there? Not trying to be snarky, it's just that I've never seen any long term studies on the Paleo diet. And most of the nutrition sites I frequent caution that there isn't enough evidence to show long term outcomes due to the lack of studies. Do you have links to any of the studies.0 -
It is horrible for your health. You will likely lose weight, but you will have a plethora of health problems if you choose this long term. I know there are people who swear by it, but there are plenty of long term studies that find it is not a good long term solution.
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total bullshirt0 -
It is horrible for your health. You will likely lose weight, but you will have a plethora of health problems if you choose this long term. I know there are people who swear by it, but there are plenty of long term studies that find it is not a good long term solution.
total bullshirt
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Are you talking about the fact that there are no long term studies showing grains, dairy and legumes are bad?0 -
It is horrible for your health. You will likely lose weight, but you will have a plethora of health problems if you choose this long term. I know there are people who swear by it, but there are plenty of long term studies that find it is not a good long term solution.
total bullshirt
Are you talking about the fact that there are no long term studies showing grains, dairy and legumes are bad?
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she didnt say that grains, dairy and legumes are bad. Nor did I.0 -
It is horrible for your health. You will likely lose weight, but you will have a plethora of health problems if you choose this long term. I know there are people who swear by it, but there are plenty of long term studies that find it is not a good long term solution.
total bullshirt
Are you talking about the fact that there are no long term studies showing grains, dairy and legumes are bad?
she didnt say that grains, dairy and legumes are bad. Nor did I.
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I understand that, you called BS on her claim but could easily do the exact same for the entire paleo diet using the same criteria0 -
Hang on, before any more arguing, May I suggest you both step shirtless into this pit of mud...0
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It is horrible for your health. You will likely lose weight, but you will have a plethora of health problems if you choose this long term. I know there are people who swear by it, but there are plenty of long term studies that find it is not a good long term solution.
Are there? Not trying to be snarky, it's just that I've never seen any long term studies on the Paleo diet. And most of the nutrition sites I frequent caution that there isn't enough evidence to show long term outcomes due to the lack of studies. Do you have links to any of the studies.
There is no such thing as a long-term study on the paleo diet. It hasn't been around long enough yet! :laugh:
There *are* studies though that show increasing protein in the diet is the best route for long-term weight loss, and that the amount of carbs and fats are irrelevant, so long as protein is high and you're in a caloric deficit.0 -
There *are* studies though that show increasing protein in the diet is the best route for long-term weight loss, and that the amount of carbs and fats are irrelevant, so long as protein is high and you're in a caloric deficit.
I have never heard fats are irrelevant. not saying you havnt heard it somewhere, but I have never heard that. And...fats are relevant.0 -
There *are* studies though that show increasing protein in the diet is the best route for long-term weight loss, and that the amount of carbs and fats are irrelevant, so long as protein is high and you're in a caloric deficit.
I have never heard fats are irrelevant. not saying you havnt heard it somewhere, but I have never heard that. And...fats are relevant.
I think it was the 2003 Harvard study. I would have to look it up again. I could be remembering wrong. It was basically saying that the groups that did high protein did the best at losing/maintaining. Some had more carbs and some had more fat. But the conclusion was that it is best to do *at least* 25% protein. While fats/carbs can play a larger role with body recomp when near maintenance levels, they are irrelevant in terms of fat oxidation when in a caloric deficit.
Edit: Actually, I think it was moderate protein, but the point was where protein should be between 25-30%0 -
I tried it. I didn't lose weight. I felt awful and kept getting sick. I slept 12 hours a day and felt tired constantly. I had really wanted to believe. I read Mark's Daily Apple religiously.
I cut back on animal products, added back in grains and felt amazing. Stopped getting sick. Skin infection disappeared. Lost weight. Sleep 7 hours now.
I have no problems digesting dairy, grains, or legumes. I never ever have bloating or gas when eating them. I have serious problems digesting meat, especially red meat.
I am not built for the paleo diet. And the "science" behind the forbidden foods is very dodgy, imo. Is there harm in giving up these foods? No, I don't believe so. Is there harm in eating them? Undoubtedly not.0 -
Ok, I don't think it was the Harvard study. But I did find this one: http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1103993
This one is saying that calories are what matter in terms of fat storage and that getting enough dietary protein helped insure LBM maintenance.
I am not sure if the above study is the same one, but it basically makes the same point. What I was remembering was cited in NROLFW, so I will look at the book again to get the citation. It might be the same one, but I didn't file away the citation in my brain.0 -
LMAO - I second this!Hang on, before any more arguing, May I suggest you both step shirtless into this pit of mud...0 -
LMAO - I second this!Hang on, before any more arguing, May I suggest you both step shirtless into this pit of mud...
:laugh:0 -
Hang on, before any more arguing, May I suggest you both step shirtless into this pit of mud...
I second that motion!!!
BAHHH AHAHAHHAHAA0 -
Teehee *sleazy*:happy:
Abbsy Baabsy, Im not suggesting this IS the reason that you had problems, but its the reason I think a lot do. People will NOT eat enough when trying to do paleo/primal. I tried following Tim Ferris's 4 hour body a while back, and was just so tired and lacking energy, so I went back to grains and my energy went up. I just wasnt eating enough to fuel myself and my workouts. When I decided to try paleo I made a conscious effort to eat more food, especially calorie dense foods like nuts and avocados. Ive never had energy problems so far, and actually have more energy (dont get mid afternoon slump anymore). Im not suggesting you try it again, or anything, but I do think a lot of people dont necessarily fuel themselves correctly, and that becomes an issue.0 -
Teehee *sleazy*:happy:
Abbsy Baabsy, Im not suggesting this IS the reason that you had problems, but its the reason I think a lot do. People will NOT eat enough when trying to do paleo/primal. I tried following Tim Ferris's 4 hour body a while back, and was just so tired and lacking energy, so I went back to grains and my energy went up. I just wasnt eating enough to fuel myself and my workouts. When I decided to try paleo I made a conscious effort to eat more food, especially calorie dense foods like nuts and avocados. Ive never had energy problems so far, and actually have more energy (dont get mid afternoon slump anymore). Im not suggesting you try it again, or anything, but I do think a lot of people dont necessarily fuel themselves correctly, and that becomes an issue.
I agree. When I first started, I felt very lethargic from about day 3 through day 10. Looking back on it, I think it was partially due getting used to eating fewer carbs, but was also likely due to the fact that I still was "dieting" like I had been, eating low carb, but also low cal, and low fat. I was starving, cranky, and tired. I hadn't yet learned that fat is actually OK and to not be afraid of it. I'm glad I pushed through that rocky first couple of weeks. Like the above poster, that may not have been the issue at all, but for me I realize I did not eat enough in the beginning.0 -
It's basically the "new" adkins diet. Good luck with that
It has nothing to do with Atkins. Compared to SAD, or WW, they are both low carb / high fat... that's the only similarity between the two.
Atkins has 4 phases, recommends ketosis for Phase 1, no fruit in Phase 1, and doesn't care what chemical crap you eat, including sugar substitutes.
Paleo/Primal can be low carb, especially if you're trying to lose weight, but when on maintenance it's generally moderate carb (100g - 150g/day). Some people aim for ketosis, but that has nothing to do with eating Paleo/Primal.
Paleo stresses high quality and well-sourced veg, fruit, meat, and eliminates processed foods, added sugars, sugar substitutes, grains, legumes, soy.
Atkins doesn't really care what you eat, and Atkins company is happy to sell you processed frankenfood. I did Atkins 10 years ago. When I started, I bought all the stupid Atkins products.. bars, that awful pancake syrup, ate Slim Jims... Blech. It worked for me then when all I cared about was weight loss and not health. Not for me now.0 -
I am not sure if the above study is the same one, but it basically makes the same point. What I was remembering was cited in NROLFW, so I will look at the book again to get the citation. It might be the same one, but I didn't file away the citation in my brain.
Most of the studies or meta-analysis of studies show that exercise is the biggest factor in maintain muscle while losing weight. Protein will likely help, but I don't beleive it is the key. Eating high protein without exercise probably won't make a whole lot of difference in muscle loss during weight loss.
Edited after reading further0 -
It's basically the "new" adkins diet. Good luck with that
It has nothing to do with Atkins. Compared to SAD, or WW, they are both low carb / high fat... that's the only similarity between the two.
Atkins has 4 phases, recommends ketosis for Phase 1, no fruit in Phase 1, and doesn't care what chemical crap you eat, including sugar substitutes.
Paleo/Primal can be low carb, especially if you're trying to lose weight, but when on maintenance it's generally moderate carb (100g - 150g/day). Some people aim for ketosis, but that has nothing to do with eating Paleo/Primal.
Paleo stresses high quality and well-sourced veg, fruit, meat, and eliminates processed foods, added sugars, sugar substitutes, grains, legumes, soy.
Atkins doesn't really care what you eat, and Atkins company is happy to sell you processed frankenfood. I did Atkins 10 years ago. When I started, I bought all the stupid Atkins products.. bars, that awful pancake syrup, ate Slim Jims... Blech. It worked for me then when all I cared about was weight loss and not health. Not for me now.
That's not actually true. My mom did Adkins and she was not allowed to eat carbs. It is a keto diet, just like paleo and South Beach. She would eat a slab of ribs, but then said she couldn't have even one slice of bread to go with it. She even had to limit her fruit intake on that one.0 -
I think it was the 2003 Harvard study. I would have to look it up again. I could be remembering wrong. It was basically saying that the groups that did high protein did the best at losing/maintaining. Some had more carbs and some had more fat. But the conclusion was that it is best to do *at least* 25% protein. While fats/carbs can play a larger role with body recomp when near maintenance levels, they are irrelevant in terms of fat oxidation when in a caloric deficit.
Edit: Actually, I think it was moderate protein, but the point was where protein should be between 25-30%
How long was the study, what were the different groups, and what was the margin of difference between the groups?
You may have missed the link I posted after this comment:
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1103993
Here is the abstract:Context The role of diet composition in response to overeating and energy dissipation in humans is unclear.
Objective To evaluate the effects of overconsumption of low, normal, and high protein diets on weight gain, energy expenditure, and body composition.
Design, Setting, and Participants A single-blind, randomized controlled trial of 25 US healthy, weight-stable male and female volunteers, aged 18 to 35 years with a body mass index between 19 and 30. The first participant was admitted to the inpatient metabolic unit in June 2005 and the last in October 2007.
Intervention After consuming a weight-stabilizing diet for 13 to 25 days, participants were randomized to diets containing 5% of energy from protein (low protein), 15% (normal protein), or 25% (high protein), which they were overfed during the last 8 weeks of their 10- to 12-week stay in the inpatient metabolic unit. Compared with energy intake during the weight stabilization period, the protein diets provided approximately 40% more energy intake, which corresponds to 954 kcal/d (95% CI, 884-1022 kcal/d).
Main Outcome Measures Body composition was measured by dual-energy x-ray absorptiometry biweekly, resting energy expenditure was measured weekly by ventilated hood, and total energy expenditure by doubly labeled water prior to the overeating and weight stabilization periods and at weeks 7 to 8.
Results Overeating produced significantly less weight gain in the low protein diet group (3.16 kg; 95% CI, 1.88-4.44 kg) compared with the normal protein diet group (6.05 kg; 95% CI, 4.84-7.26 kg) or the high protein diet group (6.51 kg; 95% CI, 5.23-7.79 kg) (P = .002). Body fat increased similarly in all 3 protein diet groups and represented 50% to more than 90% of the excess stored calories. Resting energy expenditure, total energy expenditure, and body protein did not increase during overfeeding with the low protein diet. In contrast, resting energy expenditure (normal protein diet: 160 kcal/d [95% CI, 102-218 kcal/d]; high protein diet: 227 kcal/d [95% CI, 165-289 kcal/d]) and body protein (lean body mass) (normal protein diet: 2.87 kg [95% CI, 2.11-3.62 kg]; high protein diet: 3.18 kg [95% CI, 2.37-3.98 kg]) increased significantly with the normal and high protein diets.
Conclusions Among persons living in a controlled setting, calories alone account for the increase in fat; protein affected energy expenditure and storage of lean body mass, but not body fat storage.0
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