Obese flier turned away from airlines; dies overseas
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At 425lbs, you're not just wide. You have a lot of... depth as well.How did the plane, that couldn't return her to the US, take her overseas?
this question has been asked and aswered 20+ times in this topic.
Really? I haven't seen one legitimate answer. Maybe the person who used to work for the airlines could answer how she was able to buy a return ticket - two of them actually! - when there wouldn't have been a plane available with the proper belt extenders?
I really think that's what it boils down to! She was able to fly there with the airlines knowing her situation. They should have never allowed it knowing full well that they wouldn't have the same facilities where she was travelling.
Last time, you guys!! Here we go!
She was gone for more than a month, she got heavier and larger, and different airlines can only do so much, and they obviously did everything they could, unless getting the local fire department to carry her into three seats she still did not fit does not qualify as trying.
She would have had to gain a substantial amount and you don't know that to be the case. Also they bought three seat two for her and one for her husband, not three for her that she didn't fit in.0 -
How did the plane, that couldn't return her to the US, take her overseas?
this question has been asked and aswered 20+ times in this topic.
Really? I haven't seen one legitimate answer. Maybe the person who used to work for the airlines could answer how she was able to buy a return ticket - two of them actually! - when there wouldn't have been a plane available with the proper belt extenders?
I really think that's what it boils down to! She was able to fly there with the airlines knowing her situation. They should have never allowed it knowing full well that they wouldn't have the same facilities where she was travelling.
Last time, you guys!! Here we go!
She was gone for more than a month, she got heavier and larger, and different airlines can only do so much, and they obviously did everything they could, unless getting the local fire department to carry her into three seats she still did not fit does not qualify as trying.
She would have had to gain a substantial amount and you don't know that to be the case. Also they bought three seat two for her and one for her husband, not three for her that she didn't fit in.
Are you guys reading the articles?
"On the plane, the crew, with help from the local fire department, was unable to move her from her wheelchair to the three seats assigned to her.
The captain ordered them off after 30 minutes of no success."
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/airlines_left_my_wife_to_die_nF3WDbQiw0EZLnvYr9XQmM
You all fail. Good day.0 -
This is a sad story, the media's twist on the story to get their rates up is also sad!! Yes, she was obese and an amputee who suffered from kidney disease and diabetes – with a severely distended belly. This lady had a lot of issues going on and from the husbands statement of the airline having a duty to get her home to her doctors shows that he too was treating her wrong! His love for her and dedication would have led him to a hospital versus driving for hours to another airport!!! And if she had such special needs why not travel with their own wheelchair? I was obese at one time and most of us on here were so if you are reading this thread and feel that peole are not feeling bad for this lady and her family we ARE, but at the same time we know that one does not have to die being obese....... Sad story0
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OMG the people who have replied to this sound cruel.
i'm sorry, but posters are being exactly the same way they are when a person asks any other question on a MFP forum: some are blatantly honest (and come across as cold), some are sympathetic, some are sarcastic, some are turning it around and making it about themselves, and there's always one person who has to take the response to totally inappropriate levels of crassness.
being empathetic about someone's death (which i am) does not mean that one has to suddenly change their views on fitness or frivolous law suits or personal responsibility for one's own body. the people who are 400 lbs and on MFP are here because they have decided to change what they know is an unhealthy situation. they are here to take personal responsibility for their health so that they can take their lives back. did this woman deserve to die? no, of course not. it is terrible that she died before she had a chance to do what so many people on this site are doing for themselves, yes, it is. but those airlines are not to blame for her death. years and years of poor health, obesity, and the diseases that are caused by obesity are to blame for her death.
^^^well said!!0 -
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My only question is how did she get over there in the first place? She flew on a plane & they didn't have a problem so just wondering why she kept getting turned away on her return flights.
All planes / equipment are not identical. Obviously the one that got her there was equipped to handle the situation but there was not a plane or the proper equipment to get her back.0 -
Obesity is not viewed as a disability under the Air Carrier Access Act. Therefore she was not discriminated against under this Act. The airlines have a duty/responsibility to all passengers to keep them safe and get them safely to their destinations. It's obvious that had she been a "healthy" obese person (term used loosely for lack of a better one), chances are she would've been able to get back by going to a larger airport. But the combination of kidney disease, diabetes and other issues are the culprit here. Not the airlines. It wasn't safe for her to fly, PERIOD. If it were safe for her to fly, they would've flown her.
Now think of this: If the airlines had noticed her poor health, but were able to get her on and she happened to die in flight but would've survived if there was a doctor on board, would the airline be sued for letting her on the flight and not prohibiting her from flying?...
Yeah. The problem here is no personal responsibility for her actions and the actions of her family. it's extremely sad that she died, if she would've been in better health, a 2 day delay on getting home wouldn't have killed her. If she was in that poor of health, she shouldn't have gone to Hungary in the first place.0 -
This is truly sad. Bottom line is that none of us know this woman or her history. We can speculate that her disabilities are a result of her obesity, but we cannot say for certain, nor can we say that she wasn't doing anything to try to improve her situation - as someone pointed out, maybe she had lost weight to arrive at the 425 pounds she boarded the plane with. We can say that a woman in her health should not have been traveling, but we don't have any insight into why she was traveling - maybe the trip back to her homeland gave her the opportunity to meet grandchildren she'd never met, or see a loved one one last time. Maybe it was simply for a vacation. Whatever it was, it was her decision to make and we don't know the story behind it.
I do agree that she should have sought medical attention there - as someone else pointed out, symptoms of her seriously declining health are unlikely to have gone unnoticed. I can understand wanting to be seen by the doctors who know you best, but if that was not immediately possible, I would have been hightailing it to the nearest medical health professional to get my condition stabilized.
I don't believe the airlines are at fault. Not every airline is equipped to deal with passengers of size and there is no standardized approach within the industry. That said, I do believe the woman and her husband had a reasonable expectation that the airline that flew her there without issue would be able to safely accommodate her return flight, and I expect that an attorney will attempt to make the same argument. I don't see that argument holding any water against the other two airlines named.0 -
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I think there are many who are missing the point of this topic. The point seems to me to be a discussion as to whether or not it is the airline's fault that she died.
No, I don't think it is. To my knowledge, airlines are governed by the rules of the country of origin. Therefore, the airline that did transport her to Europe, may not be allowed to transport her back based on the rules of the European country. That isn't the airline's choice. It appears to me that the safety of other passengers was in question. I personally would rather have someone be told they couldn't board my plane than to be put at risk so someone who should have had better sense than to fly when very ill could be accommodated. There are MANY reports of obese people not using seat belts in motor vehicles being thrown into other passengers in collisions and killing them. This is no different for airlines.
It appears to me that the airlines did all they could to try and get her back home. If they are not mandated to carry seat belt extenders, why didn't she provide one herself? When tickets are booked, the airline doesn't know much about the passenger, but she should have known that an extender was necessary.
It's my responsibility to ensure that an airline I take is advised of my nutritional needs if I have any special ones (and they are serving meals). Why did she not know that not all airlines have the proper equipment and either arrange for it or provide it herself?
She sounded like she was very ill for a very long time. If she was not fit to travel, why did she choose to buy the ticket? If her doctor cleared her for travel, should not some responsibility be placed on him/her? I don't recall a mention of the doctor clearing her, so I will assume no doctor did clear her. That leaves the responsibility squarely on her shoulders. If I am having a serious health issue, then I may choose to fly, but I need to take the responsibility of the consequences. Even better, get proper medical attention when it is needed, not when it is convenient to do so.
I have seen too many people try to place the blame firmly on anyone else to avoid taking responsibility for their own actions. I was, and occasionally still, can be like this myself. It's a hard character trait to break. Unfortunately, her decisions cost this woman her life. That's a sad thing, but the responsibility shouldn't be placed on the airline.0 -
As most have said, very sad story. I don't think she was healthy enough to be flying/travelling and she and her husband made a poor decision to travel with all her health issues.0
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What's really sad is more than anything this family cares about making bank on their mom's death. And they probably will even though the airline was following standard safety guidelines. If they don't give the family millions of dollars they'll look evil, even though there were plenty of alternatives for the mom, like I dunno...NOT flying overseas when you are mobidly obease and on your death bed? No...No..this is entirely the airlines fault, and money will surely replace the woman they loved so dearly..0
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Possible reasons they were unable to accommodate her:
1) Safety issues of seatbelts not fitting. She may have gained weight. However, it was also stated that she had a severely dissented stomach most likely due to her medical condition. It is possible that this caused even the extenders available to not be enough. Also, they are NOT required to have extenders available. If you must have one then you should purchase your own (though there is talk about not allowing this because of safety issues with trusting people to keep them properly maintained).
2) Safety issues of her health conditions being beyond what they could handle in air as an emergency. If they think that a medical issue is not under control and can cause a problem in flight or cause an emergency landing they CAN deny boarding. I have personally had experience with someone who mentioned they did not have needed medical supplies to an airline employee. They were then denied boarding because it would not be safe for them to be on that flight.
3) The equipment or plane configuration could have been different. Different planes have different equipment, seating set ups, and weight limits.
It seems like the airlines tried their best to get her back. However, they should not be held responsible for the decisions that this lady made. She was the one who refused to get medical help making her a liability on the flight. She was the one who waited to fly back so close to when she needed medical help. It could have just as much been a weather issue that made it impossible for them to fly.
I will also point out that airlines do not follow ADA and their requirements. They come under the Air Carrier Access Act.0 -
Her death was avoidable. Her lifestyle and choices lead her to her demise. It is very sad, and her husband probably needs an outlet for his grief, and anger. All the focus is on the airlines, but who is to say that even if she had returned to the US, she would not have died anyway due to her condition and the complications thereof. I don't think the airline has anything to worry about, as an autopsy will probably show that her heart failed due to morbid obesity. The clue is in the term morbid. A sad story, and a warning to us all. Stay away from HFCS!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2239302/Syrup-biscuits-ice-cream-energy-drinks-fuelling-diabetes-global-scale.html0 -
If you're so sick, you're at a risk of dying from your illness without medical treatment...why would you travel somewhere for a whole MONTH and not have ANY emergency medical backup plan? What if she ended up stuck there due to unpreventable situations (freak weather event, national emergency, etc.)- what would she have done?
If you're living with a potentially fatal disease, you should do some research and make sure there is a hospital you can get to in an emergency. Even if you don't have a disease, that's not a bad idea!
Could the airline have done more to help? Maybe- we can't know for sure. But the death was not the airline's fault. A combination of bad health and poor planning led to that.0 -
No.Stay away from HFCS!
Daily Mail. Good for pics of hot chicks, and... not much else.0 -
I still like my idea of exercising a bit this evening or tomorrow in dedication to this lady's life and to our own health. :flowerforyou: Let's turn this thing around, yo.0
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Were there no doctors for her to see overseas? If she was having medical issues to the point of death, her husband should have taken her to a hospital. The fact that she died doesn't seem to have to do with the fact that she couldn't board her plane, but by the fact that she was old, obese, and had several comorbidities. This is an extremely sad article; I will be interested to see how the lawsuit turns out.
Well 56 is not old but then I saw u are 26. LOL!
I agree with the other poster why didnt she go to a doctor in Hungary? The story doesnt make sense she spent all this time looking for an airline to accomodate her. If she was that sick she should have rushed to a hospital. I dont think its the airlines fault.0 -
Yes, very sad but I agree that travelling wasn't a good idea. She likely had high blood pressure and all sorts of ailments that flying would have probably made worse. I think the main point of this story is that she wasn't back home when she died...not the fact the lack of flight caused her death.
I doubt that the 'inhumane' treatment was that bad. She was a big woman and whilst airlines and other places try to compensate for overweight people, there is only so much they can do. If her safety was in danger from back rests and seatbelts, I wouldn't have let her fly either.
I would agree she would have likely died soon without the travel anyway, despite any attempts she may or may not have been making to improve her health...
It's scary to think of that weight. At my highest I was roughly half her size and I knew I couldn't let it go on...it's interesting how some people get to that size...I know weight is easy to put on but there are always times when you think 'this can't go on'. I find it sad that she wasn't healthier as she probably would have enjoyed her trip a lot more too.0 -
How did she get over there in the first place? Assuming there were no problems flying over there, why such a mix up flying back?
Thinking they have a pretty good case against the airline that allowed her to fly away from home but would not fly her back--inconsistent refusal of service = discrimation on what was clearly a disability.
Overweight isn't considered a disability for flying.
You also assume she was the same weight when she flew there.
Different planes have different equipment onboard as well.
Overweight--especially with her other conditions--would most likely be considered a disability under the law. Whether you agree with it or not--they have a GREAT case.
Yes, I'm assuming in a short time, she did not become morbidly obese. Pretty sure I'm right.
I said they have the best case against the carrier that allowed her to board the plane in the first place, and then changed their mind on the return flight. If it's corporate policy to ensure the safety of the flight--that's one thing--they'd have to prove that policy is not discriminatory. BUT, if they have no such policy, allowed her to fly out, and then changed their mind, they are in bad legal shape.0 -
Here's the deal the way I see it. KLM was responsible to get her home. they flew her there with no problems. Besides being fat this woman was an amputee. Who knows when she gained her weight, but doesn't matter.0
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Here's the thing:
If the airline could not guarantee her departure AND her return, they should never have sold her the ticket. End of Story. In my opinion, they accepted responsibility by letting her take the plane THERE, and then stranded her in another country. I don't care who you are, that's just WRONG.
If the airline isn't capable of transporting - then FINE. But don't take someone to a foreign country and then go "ohh.. oops. Sorry. Tough luck. You're gonna have to find some other way home. Sucks to be you."
yeah. That's GREAT business..0 -
How did she get over there in the first place? Assuming there were no problems flying over there, why such a mix up flying back?
Thinking they have a pretty good case against the airline that allowed her to fly away from home but would not fly her back--inconsistent refusal of service = discrimation on what was clearly a disability.
How is the airline to know if she is going home as for good or going on vacation??? I mean the computers know because of the tickets bought, but the people boarding her... they are not gong to know who is going there one way and who is coming back. So to them they know no difference.
They don't have to know if she's flying back--they do, however, have to be consistent with their policy with regard to who they will and will not fly. If the family can show the airline's decision not to fly her out the second time was 1) discriminatory and 2) proximately caused her death--they win the case.0 -
I GIVE UP0
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I GIVE UP
lol you started for it. And asked for opinions.0 -
If the family can show the airline's decision not to fly her out the second time was 1) discriminatory and 2) proximately caused her death--they win the case.
I don't think discriminatory can be used because there were other airlines involved to try to get her home and none could provide safe and adequate means for getting her into her seat. If any of the airlines were to have the proper equipment and means that I am sure this would not have been am issue. Also this might have been mentioned but lets just say that the airlines was able to board this passenger and the passenger did happen to die in mid-flight. Would it have been the airlines fault for boarding her in the ill condition that the passenger was in? On top of that other passengers could have sued the airlines for placing and subjecting them to those conditions? Bottom line, it is not the airlines fault.If the airline could not guarantee her departure AND her return, they should never have sold her the ticket. End of Story.
Agreed but what if the original plane that was meant to carry the passenger had to be put up for service, came across bad weather delays, ect and it was the only plane / crew / equipment available to do so. Who is to blame then?0 -
I GIVE UP
lol you started for it. And asked for opinions.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:0 -
Certainly not the airlines fault. But.... when I started my weight loss I was 400 pounds. It's not as simple as to just say lose weight you fat slob. Believe me.... there's more to it then that.
Yup, her health was her issues. What those issues were we don't know totally.
It's very sad.0 -
I have really bad diarrhea today.0
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