New Study Reveals: Plateaus are NOT real...
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No harm in trying, I guess. If it doesn't work as well as it could, I can always go try something else.0
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Thanks, OP, for circulating a tool that may be helpful for some. Many of us use longterm measurements, weight etc, and while I haven't done a similar spreadsheet to yours, I know in my heart of hearts that the pounds I have been playing with for the last 8 weeks (182 - 178) are down to me... not quite recording every mouthful accurately (and that is another issue that calculating cals is always an estimate, not an accurate measure, unless you need to be ultra careful and weigh everything), being over-optimistic about just how much additional exercise I have taken (maybe I need a Fitbit for Christmas).
At the end of the day, the longterm trends are down in both scale and tape measure, and I am happy with that. I am learning a new lifestyle, and I don't want to be reliant on scales and machines to monitor my every breath... just learning to moderate my intake and keep up a moderate activity level. Slow but sure.
And yes, after a hectic autumn, I am now back on track and almost down to 177 which I have only seen once before this century on this particular journey!!! And I have learned that I have to handle social events and food, by not grabbing every sausage roll in sight like there was no tomorrow!! Free food = no loss, unless you control that hand reaching out for yet another goodie!!
So good luck one and all!0 -
If you eat fewer calories than you burn over a long period of time, you will lose weight. Period. There's really no debating this, unless you also want to debate the Law of Thermodynamics.
While the OP was off base in assuming that 'long period of time' would be a month for everybody, I think people should look beyond that to the actual point of the argument. If the post gets people to start looking at weight loss in a long term perspective instead of freaking the f*** out every morning they see a couple pound jump (never mind that their sodium and carb intake the day before were high as hell) it's a good thing. Less aggravation for me when stalking the forums at least.0 -
ok - have to throw my 2 cents worth in
1 - people get a freaking grip on things - the OP has presented 1 tool that works for them - NO WHERE does the op say that this is the only thing to do, no where does the op say that this tool will work for everyone - in fact they make a point to stress that this TOOL will probably NOT work for everyone. All they are saying is that IF you are into crunching numbers, and IF you think you are on a plateau then MAYBE you might want to try tracking your numbers in a different way to see a bigger picture than the one that your little lowly scale is showing you. Blasting someone that is trying to help is rude, ignorant and more importantly amusing.
2 - The attitude that I've lost more than you and that doesnt give you any right to tell me what to do just freaking sucks - get over yourself. It doesnt matter if someone is here to lose 5 lbs so they can fit into a new outfit for the company christmas party or they want to lose 600lbs to live a few years longer than they otherwise would. All of us are here to track what we eat, track how much we move and get some info and support along the way - quite a few of us are also here willing and able to share information we've learned along the way to help others maybe have an easier journey than we maybe did. Using someone's ticker to determine how much weight they've decided they want to lose is just dumb. Not everyone sets their ticker to the whole goal to lose weight - most people set it in smaller increments
3 - Everyone on this site is over / under estimating what they are eating - and yes I can say everyone - because everyone that uses the food database has errors - even if you religiously weigh and count every micro gram of everything single thing that goes into your mouth and enter that information into the food tracker you will have errors because a lot of the information in the database is wrong - for example - search Kraft Whipped Peanut Butter Dip - then look at the serving sizes - there are 3 choices for serving size - option 1 - 13g or 1 tbls, option 2 - 1g or 1 tbls or option 3 - full container. The reality is that 1 tablespoon is 15g - so no matter which option on the site you pick they're all wrong - Measure what you eat and make sure the options you choose when you enter are as accurate as you can get or plan you're meals based on the measurements on the system. - Adjust accordingly
4 - Everyone that uses the exercise tracker and has ever read a forum post knows that MFP either under or over estimates the calories burned - if you track on this site then again - make sure you have another way of tracking that is more accurate (and HRM for example) then when you enter adjust the entry to reflect a more true number - eg - you walked on a treadmill for 30 minutes @ 2.5mph - the treadmill says you burned 150 cals, your HRM says you burned 150 cals but when you enter into MFP it says you burned 250 cals - adjust the time on MFP until it also says 150 cals - even if it 'looks' like you worked out a lot less than you really did - which matters more - what strangers on your friend's list think about how much time you exercised or that you exercised and you know how much time you spent doing it.
5 - So many people make things way way way more complicated than they need to be. Eat less Move more - pretty freaking simple. How you track how much you eat and move is completely up to you as an individual - one person weighs themselves twice a day everyday, one person maybe steps on a scale once a month, one person measures and writes down every micro gram every meal, others may only track part things every once in a while - it is YOUR CHOICE not mine, not his, not hers - only your choice how you track, eat, exercise, sleep, shower - whatever choice is a gift use it wisely. But dont ***** when what youre doing isnt working and someone who has a tool that works for them offers to let you use that tool to try and help you.
I guess in the end it's true - opinions are like *ssholes - everybody's got one
End of rant0 -
Great post. I have been entering my data into a spreadsheet as well. I completely agree with this post.0
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2 - The attitude that I've lost more than you and that doesnt give you any right to tell me what to do just freaking sucks - get over yourself. It doesnt matter if someone is here to lose 5 lbs so they can fit into a new outfit for the company christmas party or they want to lose 600lbs to live a few years longer than they otherwise would. All of us are here to track what we eat, track how much we move and get some info and support along the way - quite a few of us are also here willing and able to share information we've learned along the way to help others maybe have an easier journey than we maybe did. Using someone's ticker to determine how much weight they've decided they want to lose is just dumb. Not everyone sets their ticker to the whole goal to lose weight - most people set it in smaller increments
Not sure who you directed this at, but my post was specifically addressing the fact that everyone comes here, manages some success, and immediately assumes they have all the answers. I know... I did it too. The reality is that the first six months at a calorie deficit is completely different than the first two years at a calorie deficit. Just like a week at a calorie deficit isn't comparable to a month at a calorie deficit. Honestly, I suspect that the OP is working with too great of a calorie deficit, but I didn't bother to extrapolate the math. Actual scientific studies have proven that muscle loss occurs at a daily calorie deficit of greater than 300 calories below TDEE. If the OP is netting 1500 calories below TDEE, then he most surely is losing muscle mass which will inevitably slow his metabolism... and then guess what happens... A PLATEAU! Of course, I didn't want to type all of this out for him because I know that odds are he would completely disregard the greater amount of experience and knowledge that I have at this so I didn't bother. I just merely said that I was certain he would eventually change his mind.
And the reason that the OP got blasted is because he made a definitive, sensationalistic claim in his thread title to get attention, then attempted to use his own experience to support it. Therefore, he was giving his method credence above all others.
Perhaps you need to relax a bit. I didn't read the entire thread, but what I did read, I did not find to be rude in the least. Giving the nature of the internet, you would think people would be a little more careful about the words that they choose. And when they choose their words poorly, be a little less surprised when people react to it.0 -
I'm waiting for the under 1k calorie people to chime in.....
"So we can keep eating below 1k and still lose???"
Just stick to it under 1k eaters!
The weight will come off!!!!0 -
And the reason that the OP got blasted is because he made a definitive, sensationalistic claim in his thread title to get attention, then attempted to use his own experience to support it. Therefore, he was giving his method credence above all others.
This. If what he's doing works for him and may help others, I'm all for it. But to make the blanket statement that a "study reveals" that plateaus aren't real is ridiculous and insulting.0 -
I'm not sure why people are offended or insulted by the idea of using a spreadsheet for long-term tracking. If you don't want to do this, then don't. I have found my spreadsheet to be truly eye-opening, especially what the OP said about finding your BMR. After about 5 months of tracking, I have found that my BMR is slightly higher than the calculators indicate. Some people might find theirs to be lower. This is a good example of how knowledge can be very powerful.0
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It may not be contributing much to the dicussion, but this Plateau is very real.
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And the reason that the OP got blasted is because he made a definitive, sensationalistic claim in his thread title to get attention, then attempted to use his own experience to support it. Therefore, he was giving his method credence above all others.
Perhaps you need to relax a bit. I didn't read the entire thread, but what I did read, I did not find to be rude in the least. Giving the nature of the internet, you would think people would be a little more careful about the words that they choose. And when they choose their words poorly, be a little less surprised when people react to it.
True. I think people missed where OP admitted that the title was a sensational lie to get people to read the thread. (kinda like when people put "penis" or "boobs" in a title to get people to read it)0 -
There are always exceptions to the rule as I have written. Can't please all the people all the time. I think what I propose would work for 95% of people and would be more valuable than a lot of the misinformation on this site.
Sorry that "one person" had such crappy results. I'm sure something was going on with their body. Something has to be going on. If you are taking in a lot less calories than you are burning but not losing weight over a long period of time something abnormal is going on. For my purposes though and for what I shared I don't care about abnormal. I care about the 99% that could benefit and don't have the very strange record that you mention.I have a one person 60 month record of data that would obliterate alot of what you said. and Im also a bit insulted. Actually a lot insulted.
Good thing this isnt science.
Un-insulted.
Is it 95 or 99? Either way you've become that person.... the person that joyously figures out their own body, climbs on a freaking soap box and tells everyone else they are doing it wrong and should be following what works for your body and anyone on the outside is abnormal.
Accept the fact that you are awesome because you understand your body, but don't tell someone who's lost a hundred pounds, run 15 half marathons and can deadlift her own body weight that she is having crappy results for not doing it the right way.
There are several kinds of plateaus and you're talking about ONE brought on by laziness and lack of will. That's not the one everyone (or 50%) of people deal with.
Have compassion not hubris.0 -
This is the first sentence from the post, not the title:
And the reason that the OP got blasted is because he made a definitive, sensationalistic claim in his thread title to get attention, then attempted to use his own experience to support it. Therefore, he was giving his method credence above all others.
Perhaps you need to relax a bit. I didn't read the entire thread, but what I did read, I did not find to be rude in the least. Giving the nature of the internet, you would think people would be a little more careful about the words that they choose. And when they choose their words poorly, be a little less surprised when people react to it.
True. I think people missed where OP admitted that the title was a sensational lie to get people to read the thread. (kinda like when people put "penis" or "boobs" in a title to get people to read it)Sorry for the deception. Yes, plateaus are real in the short run (weeks or weeks). BUT plateaus are NOT real in the long run like a month or more period of time.
It is untrue.0 -
This is the first sentence from the post, not the title:Sorry for the deception. Yes, plateaus are real in the short run (weeks or weeks). BUT plateaus are NOT real in the long run like a month or more period of time.
It is untrue.
Thank you. I sincerely believe that long term plateaus are the ONLY ones that are real struggles. The ones that people come on here and bark about less than 6 months into a new lifestyle are simply roadsigns that they need to amp it up or revisit their diet strategy.
But those who hit plateaus because their body has become too efficient at long term cardio, or because their lean mass and body fat% are changing weekly and the scale doesnt move anymore - these have nothing to freaking do with with not being motivated, refusing to change your diet or not bumping up your activity.
Your body isnt a math problem with a clear and defined answer.
Its a science experiment with no exact precedent, 12,000,000 variables and not one proper measuring apparatus - you just have to try different things and different amounts til it works.
Stop gloating from your lab space and realize that the reason SOME of us are upset is because you are using absolutes and calling those who do actually hit real legitimate plateaus... Abnormal.
Well you know what, you arent interested in any of the people that dont live in your exact body - well we dont really care about your body either.0 -
Appreciate the post OP, I started a spreadsheet last month with all my data from July and have kept it updated ever since. It helped me figure out my TDEE is higher than MFP calculated (and several other websites) which helped me a lot to make sure I eat enough. Trying to eat at lower levels for quicker weightloss was making me weak and tired and crunching the numbers made it all make sense. I think it's a great idea for anyone to try, especially if they are running into problems.0
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This. If what he's doing works for him and may help others, I'm all for it. But to make the blanket statement that a "study reveals" that plateaus aren't real is ridiculous and insulting.
Then people are way too easily insulted. As if the idea of a plateau was invented by them personally, and someone rejecting it terminally offends them.0 -
No. The problem is that SOMETIMES when a person isn't losing weight it has nothing to do with that person not trying his or her hardest to do so. So when someone comes along and says, "You just suck," (which is what this post essentially is saying), it's insulting.
This. If what he's doing works for him and may help others, I'm all for it. But to make the blanket statement that a "study reveals" that plateaus aren't real is ridiculous and insulting.
Then people are way too easily insulted. As if the idea of a plateau was invented by them personally, and someone rejecting it terminally offends them.0 -
This. If what he's doing works for him and may help others, I'm all for it. But to make the blanket statement that a "study reveals" that plateaus aren't real is ridiculous and insulting.
Then people are way too easily insulted. As if the idea of a plateau was invented by them personally, and someone rejecting it terminally offends them.
If you have been on a plateau, I would think you are more likely to take offense. Those on a true plateau bust their a$$es, log their food religiously, and weigh and measure everything. Can you imagine putting in all that effort and NOT seeing the scale move? The OP hasn't even been at this long enough to experience a plateau, but the way he is going about this... it is definitely coming. But what do we know. We have only been working this program for years.0 -
^^^DUDE even a pu$$y can do a simple body weight pull up and he does it manly over hand style and not underhand and this is an internet opinion and fact because I have picture proof.. :laugh:
if you'll closely, you'll notice i'm wearing a weight belt, and that in between my legs, is a 45 lbs plate.
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Then people are way too easily insulted.
Yes, I agree. I have personally offended more people than I can count by simply stating my opinion. :ohwell:
:smokin:0 -
No. The problem is that SOMETIMES when a person isn't losing weight it has nothing to do with that person not trying his or her hardest to do so. So when someone comes along and says, "You just suck," (which is what this post essentially is saying), it's insulting.
This. If what he's doing works for him and may help others, I'm all for it. But to make the blanket statement that a "study reveals" that plateaus aren't real is ridiculous and insulting.
Then people are way too easily insulted. As if the idea of a plateau was invented by them personally, and someone rejecting it terminally offends them.
I didn't get that at all from this post. I took from it, "hey here's a way to do long-term tracking to help you see your progress in a way that MFP doesn't show you."
I'm reasonably sure that the OP was not trying to insult anyone but to rather to share a strategy that works.0 -
I can't comment on whether plateaus are a real phenomenon (though I do think most "plateaus" are caused by one's failure to follow one's plan), I do agree with you on one thing:
spreadsheets are key.
For more than a year I logged my weekly losses on a spreadsheet. When I had weeks where I didn't lose, I'd go look at my average and see that I was right on track. My monthly averages almost always lined up perfectly to my calculated deficit. I'd go 2 weeks with nothing then - bam - 4 pounds gone.
"If I stuck to my plan the weight loss plan results would show up sooner or later."
I can't agree more. I lost 2 pounds a week on average as long as I wanted to. It wasn't until I was 10-20 pounds from goal that I purposely slowed things down. I never had a plateau.
It's easy to get frustrated if you're only looking at what you lose this week. When you average out your losses over a month or more, it's really enlightening.
What layout did you use for your spreadsheet? I tried to make one and it got really messy really quickly (me and Excell aren't friends) so any tips you have would be appreciated!
Mine was pretty basic.
Column 1: Numbered the weeks.
Column 2: Date - seven days, then a space
Column 3: Cals Eaten
Column 4: Cals burned through exercise
Column 5: Net cals consumed
Column 6: Loss recorded that day
Column 7: Average weekly net cals
Column 8: Weekly loss total
Once you enter the first two weeks of dates in Column 2, you can program excel to add the rest (google for how to add more dates automatically, I don't recall the formula). There is also a way to automatically calculate the net calories, but I never figured that out so I just calculated and entered them manually.
I'm happy to share my chart via google docs if anyone wants it; send me a message with your gmail address and I'll give you the url.
After 6-7 months I realized that net calories were fairly irrelevant; by that point, I had shifted to a TDEE approach to calorie-setting anyway, so I stopped tracking net calories/cals consumed and only tracked weight loss each day and week.
I do not record weight gains. If I'm in a deficit, I know I am not adding new body fat and any gains are water-related, and therefore unimportant to log.
The spreadsheet was so helpful as I was losing. For example, if I look at 2011 - I started June 16. I lost 63 pounds between that date and November 30 (I did not chart out December for some reason I can't recall). That averages to an incredible 2.63 pounds per week. Yet there are many weeks where I only lost .5 pounds - I could have been frustrated and upset and given up. But then I would look back and realize that those "stalls" are always followed by "whooshes" in my case, and I'd be patient and stick to my plan. It ALWAYS evened out.0 -
No. The problem is that SOMETIMES when a person isn't losing weight it has nothing to do with that person not trying his or her hardest to do so. So when someone comes along and says, "You just suck," (which is what this post essentially is saying), it's insulting.
This. If what he's doing works for him and may help others, I'm all for it. But to make the blanket statement that a "study reveals" that plateaus aren't real is ridiculous and insulting.
Then people are way too easily insulted. As if the idea of a plateau was invented by them personally, and someone rejecting it terminally offends them.
I didn't get that at all from this post. I took from it, "hey here's a way to do long-term tracking to help you see your progress in a way that MFP doesn't show you."
I'm reasonably sure that the OP was not trying to insult anyone but to rather to share a strategy that works.
Again... when people don't choose their words more carefully, they should not be surprised when people react to it.
He started a thread with a sensationalistic title and claimed that his own experience supports the statement. Maybe the intention was well-meaning, but the execution was sloppy. He really shouldn't be surprised that he ended up striking a nerve for some people.0 -
And, again, the first sentence of the OP:Sorry for the deception. Yes, plateaus are real in the short run (weeks or weeks). BUT plateaus are NOT real in the long run like a month or more period of time.
For someone who was at a plateau/gain for MORE THAN A YEAR despite doing everything possible to lose, this is an insult. And it is not true.0 -
Long term weight / fat loss plateaus clearly exist - it's called maintenance.
A plateau in terms of dieting is not simply about the scale - it is also about no movement in body measurements or visual markers at the same time. If your scale is not moving but there are clear signs of improvement in body composition then obviously that is not a plateau.
What does not exist in my opinion is a plateau that cannot be explained one way or another (usually by under reporting of calorie intake or over estimating calorie burn.)
Good article here:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/217761--unexplainable-fat-loss-plateaus-explained-tom-ve0 -
Thanks for sharing. Should provide some encouragement and take the focus off day to day losses and start thinking more long term0
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My One persons study. It is not scientific... but I think is insightful. By not scientific I mean 100's of people would need to do something similar to what I have done and then see what the results are. So, my results are extremely subjective. Honestly, its just a provocative blog headline to get some attention.What study are you referring to?
So based on results of what worked for you, you conclude that no one can possibly experience a plateau that lasts longer than a couple weeks?
OK then ...
not saying that at all. it's not my experience but I guess can surely happen. sounds like the case for you.
please take the time to do some sort of analysis, like a spreadsheet. if you have not it might reveal something.
good luck with that. plateaus suck.0 -
I can't comment on whether plateaus are a real phenomenon (though I do think most "plateaus" are caused by one's failure to follow one's plan), I do agree with you on one thing:
spreadsheets are key.
For more than a year I logged my weekly losses on a spreadsheet. When I had weeks where I didn't lose, I'd go look at my average and see that I was right on track. My monthly averages almost always lined up perfectly to my calculated deficit. I'd go 2 weeks with nothing then - bam - 4 pounds gone.
"If I stuck to my plan the weight loss plan results would show up sooner or later."
I can't agree more. I lost 2 pounds a week on average as long as I wanted to. It wasn't until I was 10-20 pounds from goal that I purposely slowed things down. I never had a plateau.
It's easy to get frustrated if you're only looking at what you lose this week. When you average out your losses over a month or more, it's really enlightening.
What layout did you use for your spreadsheet? I tried to make one and it got really messy really quickly (me and Excell aren't friends) so any tips you have would be appreciated!
Here's the spreadsheet. Very basic, but hopefully will serve the purpose of entering data to see where you are at.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiJHvhndZJWWdHdUa0RQby1BcldsU0g4WncwWmNtVnc#gid=0
please contact me should you have any problems with it.
To calculate BMR go here:
http://www.muscleandstrength.com/tools/bmr-and-daily-calorie-calculator.html
NOTE: I motified my number down from 2964 to 2500. I suspect you will need to do something similar to get the numbers to match up, and hopefully allow you to do some realistic goal setting over the long term.0 -
My One persons study. It is not scientific... but I think is insightful. By not scientific I mean 100's of people would need to do something similar to what I have done and then see what the results are. So, my results are extremely subjective. Honestly, its just a provocative blog headline to get some attention.What study are you referring to?
So based on results of what worked for you, you conclude that no one can possibly experience a plateau that lasts longer than a couple weeks?
OK then ...
not saying that at all. it's not my experience but I guess can surely happen. sounds like the case for you.
please take the time to do some sort of analysis, like a spreadsheet. if you have not it might reveal something.
good luck with that. plateaus suck.
back tracking like a BAW5Sorry for the deception. Yes, plateaus are real in the short run (weeks or weeks). BUT plateaus are NOT real in the long run like a month or more period of time.0 -
Long term weight / fat loss plateaus clearly exist - it's called maintenance.
A plateau in terms of dieting is not simply about the scale - it is also about no movement in body measurements or visual markers at the same time. If your scale is not moving but there are clear signs of improvement in body composition then obviously that is not a plateau.
What does not exist in my opinion is a plateau that cannot be explained one way or another (usually by under reporting of calorie intake or over estimating calorie burn.)
Good article here:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/217761--unexplainable-fat-loss-plateaus-explained-tom-ve
Mine was due to the BC I was on. But since that's hormone-related, I believe there are probably plenty of people who have the issue without being on BC, just messed up hormones. It isn't always about diet and exercise.0
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