New Study Reveals: Plateaus are NOT real...

ShannonMpls

You have a lot to lose and haven't been at this for long. As you get smaller, losing weight will become harder. Your spreadsheet only accounts for right now. If you don't make adjustments, you WILL eventually plateau. I've been doing this 3 times as long as you have and had as much to lose. I have done my own "study" and I am certain that you will eventually change your mind about your conclusions here.

Since we're all presenting anecdote as universal fact, why not add another?

Your experience is not mine. I've lost 136 pounds. As I got smaller, losing weight did not become harder. My weight loss only slowed down when I chose to slow it down by increasing my calorie intake and therefore decreasing my deficit. I was still losing nearly two pounds a week when I was 15 pounds from goal and I was eating around 2,000 calories a day (at that point, I did increase my intake because I was training for an endurance event and needed the additional fuel, and did not want to compromise my performance - actively trying to lose weight would have done that).

I am not "certain" OP will change his mind.

I don't know why my experience is different than yours - perhaps it was my method of increasing my calorie goal as I lost weight instead of decreasing it as so many people do; perhaps it was my exercise routine; perhaps it was my diet; perhaps I did not experience a hormonal shift like many dieters do.

What I do know is that plateaus are not inevitable, and for me, I lost weight at the deficit at which I ate, regardless of whether I had 135 pounds to lose or 10.

Obviously we will all have different experiences, but OP's suggestion that one create a spreadsheet to track one's losses and minimize the disappoint with low weeks is a good one in my opinion.

peterdt

Post spreadsheet to an MFP post in this forum. Folks can copy it into EXCEL using Paste Special, then use Text to Columns ...

this is better.

Here's the spreadsheet. Very basic, but hopefully will serve the purpose of entering data to see where you are at.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiJHvhndZJWWdHdUa0RQby1BcldsU0g4WncwWmNtVnc#gid=0
please contact me should you have any problems with it.

To calculate BMR go here:
http://www.muscleandstrength.com/tools/bmr-and-daily-calorie-calculator.html
NOTE: I motified my number down from 2964 to 2500. I suspect you will need to do something similar to get the numbers to match up, and hopefully allow you to do some realistic goal setting over the long term.

WendyTerry420

This. If what he's doing works for him and may help others, I'm all for it. But to make the blanket statement that a "study reveals" that plateaus aren't real is ridiculous and insulting.

Then people are way too easily insulted. As if the idea of a plateau was invented by them personally, and someone rejecting it terminally offends them.

No. The problem is that SOMETIMES when a person isn't losing weight it has nothing to do with that person not trying his or her hardest to do so. So when someone comes along and says, "You just suck," (which is what this post essentially is saying), it's insulting.

I didn't get that at all from this post. I took from it, "hey here's a way to do long-term tracking to help you see your progress in a way that MFP doesn't show you."

I'm reasonably sure that the OP was not trying to insult anyone but to rather to share a strategy that works.

Again... when people don't choose their words more carefully, they should not be surprised when people react to it.

He started a thread with a sensationalistic title and claimed that his own experience supports the statement. Maybe the intention was well-meaning, but the execution was sloppy. He really shouldn't be surprised that he ended up striking a nerve for some people.

I don't disagree with you on that. I know that a lot of things I say could have been worded better once I realize that someone was offended by it. But the point stands that people get offended *way* too easily, especially online. I think people would feel a lot better if they would simply assume that someone is trying to be helpful, rather than immediately assuming that someone is trying to be a jerk. Maybe that would also lower the number of "Why are people so mean on MFP?" threads that we see.

Personally, I always try assume the best until I know for sure. Then I click "ignore" and move on.

yoovie

^^^DUDE even a pu$$y can do a simple body weight pull up and he does it manly over hand style and not underhand and this is an internet opinion and fact because I have picture proof.. :laugh:

if you'll closely, you'll notice i'm wearing a weight belt, and that in between my legs, is a 45 lbs plate.

[/quote]

now who's a *****?

peterdt

2 - The attitude that I've lost more than you and that doesnt give you any right to tell me what to do just freaking sucks - get over yourself. It doesnt matter if someone is here to lose 5 lbs so they can fit into a new outfit for the company christmas party or they want to lose 600lbs to live a few years longer than they otherwise would. All of us are here to track what we eat, track how much we move and get some info and support along the way - quite a few of us are also here willing and able to share information we've learned along the way to help others maybe have an easier journey than we maybe did. Using someone's ticker to determine how much weight they've decided they want to lose is just dumb. Not everyone sets their ticker to the whole goal to lose weight - most people set it in smaller increments

Not sure who you directed this at, but my post was specifically addressing the fact that everyone comes here, manages some success, and immediately assumes they have all the answers. I know... I did it too. The reality is that the first six months at a calorie deficit is completely different than the first two years at a calorie deficit. Just like a week at a calorie deficit isn't comparable to a month at a calorie deficit. Honestly, I suspect that the OP is working with too great of a calorie deficit, but I didn't bother to extrapolate the math. Actual scientific studies have proven that muscle loss occurs at a daily calorie deficit of greater than 300 calories below TDEE. If the OP is netting 1500 calories below TDEE, then he most surely is losing muscle mass which will inevitably slow his metabolism... and then guess what happens... A PLATEAU! Of course, I didn't want to type all of this out for him because I know that odds are he would completely disregard the greater amount of experience and knowledge that I have at this so I didn't bother. I just merely said that I was certain he would eventually change his mind.

And the reason that the OP got blasted is because he made a definitive, sensationalistic claim in his thread title to get attention, then attempted to use his own experience to support it. Therefore, he was giving his method credence above all others.

Perhaps you need to relax a bit. I didn't read the entire thread, but what I did read, I did not find to be rude in the least. Giving the nature of the internet, you would think people would be a little more careful about the words that they choose. And when they choose their words poorly, be a little less surprised when people react to it.

Thanks for the feedback. yeah, this is an experiment in motion. 6 months of consistent results were enough for me to make a presentation.

Your muscle loss theory is not proven and is disputed by experts. Wish they could agree finally.

smantha32

This. If what he's doing works for him and may help others, I'm all for it. But to make the blanket statement that a "study reveals" that plateaus aren't real is ridiculous and insulting.

Then people are way too easily insulted. As if the idea of a plateau was invented by them personally, and someone rejecting it terminally offends them.

If you have been on a plateau, I would think you are more likely to take offense. Those on a true plateau bust their a$$es, log their food religiously, and weigh and measure everything. Can you imagine putting in all that effort and NOT seeing the scale move? The OP hasn't even been at this long enough to experience a plateau, but the way he is going about this... it is definitely coming. But what do we know. We have only been working this program for years.

I don't have to imagine it.. I've been on "plateaus". Long ones.
But like I said, I was usually causing them myself. But even if I had been genuinely stuck I wouldn't been offended by the post.

I don't think he was insulting everyone who's ever hit a plateau. I think he was saying, "I tried this, and it helped me to see that my data wasn't quite accurate".

But honestly, you have no idea how long he's been at it. He's probably a yo yo dieter like most of the rest of us. The fact that his profile doesn't detail his weight loss efforts for his entire life doesn't mean much.

I reiterate. Too easily offended.

Marmitegeoff

Bump for later

myofibril

Long term weight / fat loss plateaus clearly exist - it's called maintenance.

A plateau in terms of dieting is not simply about the scale - it is also about no movement in body measurements or visual markers at the same time. If your scale is not moving but there are clear signs of improvement in body composition then obviously that is not a plateau.

What does not exist in my opinion is a plateau that cannot be explained one way or another (usually by under reporting of calorie intake or over estimating calorie burn.)

Good article here:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/217761--unexplainable-fat-loss-plateaus-explained-tom-ve

Mine was due to the BC I was on. But since that's hormone-related, I believe there are probably plenty of people who have the issue without being on BC, just messed up hormones. It isn't always about diet and exercise.

Oh, for sure.

However, in the majority of cases (not you) the primary cause of plateau is human error despite the protestations to the contrary ie inaccurate calorie accounting.

I would say that if you put 99% of the people who swear black and blue that they are at a calorie deficit and are not losing in a metabolic ward and monitored their intake careful they would start losing weight....

WendyTerry420

Long term weight / fat loss plateaus clearly exist - it's called maintenance.

A plateau in terms of dieting is not simply about the scale - it is also about no movement in body measurements or visual markers at the same time. If your scale is not moving but there are clear signs of improvement in body composition then obviously that is not a plateau.

What does not exist in my opinion is a plateau that cannot be explained one way or another (usually by under reporting of calorie intake or over estimating calorie burn.)

Good article here:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/217761--unexplainable-fat-loss-plateaus-explained-tom-ve

Mine was due to the BC I was on. But since that's hormone-related, I believe there are probably plenty of people who have the issue without being on BC, just messed up hormones. It isn't always about diet and exercise.

Diet and exercise can both affect hormones, just as quickly as birth control can. Hormonal issues are one of the reasons that the VLCD folks that have little to lose have so much trouble.

You have provided an example of how msf74 is correct. There are always explanations, even if those explanations are not known or understood.

alanrosez

Bump.

UsedToBeHusky

You have a lot to lose and haven't been at this for long. As you get smaller, losing weight will become harder. Your spreadsheet only accounts for right now. If you don't make adjustments, you WILL eventually plateau. I've been doing this 3 times as long as you have and had as much to lose. I have done my own "study" and I am certain that you will eventually change your mind about your conclusions here.

Since we're all presenting anecdote as universal fact, why not add another?

Your experience is not mine. I've lost 136 pounds. As I got smaller, losing weight did not become harder. My weight loss only slowed down when I chose to slow it down by increasing my calorie intake and therefore decreasing my deficit. I was still losing nearly two pounds a week when I was 15 pounds from goal and I was eating around 2,000 calories a day (at that point, I did increase my intake because I was training for an endurance event and needed the additional fuel, and did not want to compromise my performance - actively trying to lose weight would have done that).

I am not "certain" OP will change his mind.

I don't know why my experience is different than yours - perhaps it was my method of increasing my calorie goal as I lost weight instead of decreasing it as so many people do; perhaps it was my exercise routine; perhaps it was my diet; perhaps I did not experience a hormonal shift like many dieters do.

What I do know is that plateaus are not inevitable, and for me, I lost weight at the deficit at which I ate, regardless of whether I had 135 pounds to lose or 10.

Obviously we will all have different experiences, but OP's suggestion that one create a spreadsheet to track one's losses and minimize the disappoint with low weeks is a good one in my opinion.

I'm certain your experience is different. You were training for an endurance event. I don't pursue athletics at all. My cardio and strength training workouts are moderate at best. Also, I identified that the OP stated that he was netting 1500 calories below his TDEE daily... that is a serious deficit to be sure. That is NOT 2000 calories a day like the diet you consumed to lose your weight. As I said, true scientific studies have proven that a daily calorie deficit greater than 300 calories results in the loss of muscle. Muscle burns more calories than fat so that muscle loss will slow his metabolism. Now here is where I can't rightly swear off definitively that the OP will plateau. So, for the sake of not mincing anymore words as has already been done in this thread, the circumstances with which the OP is generating his weight loss will increase the likelihood that he will plateau. There ya go!

Edited to add: I never said that I plateau'd, therefore, I wasn't presenting more "anecdote" as fact. I was presenting knowledge that I have learned from others and from information gathered from real studies and not inserting my own experience as definitive proof.

peterdt

You have a lot to lose and haven't been at this for long. As you get smaller, losing weight will become harder. Your spreadsheet only accounts for right now. If you don't make adjustments, you WILL eventually plateau. I've been doing this 3 times as long as you have and had as much to lose. I have done my own "study" and I am certain that you will eventually change your mind about your conclusions here.

Since we're all presenting anecdote as universal fact, why not add another?

Your experience is not mine. I've lost 136 pounds. As I got smaller, losing weight did not become harder. My weight loss only slowed down when I chose to slow it down by increasing my calorie intake and therefore decreasing my deficit. I was still losing nearly two pounds a week when I was 15 pounds from goal and I was eating around 2,000 calories a day (at that point, I did increase my intake because I was training for an endurance event and needed the additional fuel, and did not want to compromise my performance - actively trying to lose weight would have done that).

I am not "certain" OP will change his mind.

I don't know why my experience is different than yours - perhaps it was my method of increasing my calorie goal as I lost weight instead of decreasing it as so many people do; perhaps it was my exercise routine; perhaps it was my diet; perhaps I did not experience a hormonal shift like many dieters do.

What I do know is that plateaus are not inevitable, and for me, I lost weight at the deficit at which I ate, regardless of whether I had 135 pounds to lose or 10.

Obviously we will all have different experiences, but OP's suggestion that one create a spreadsheet to track one's losses and minimize the disappoint with low weeks is a good one in my opinion.

That is another consistent issue people who get fairly close to their goal weight report. There is surely something to that, and maybe the spreadsheet thing falls apart at that point. Or might need some serious adjustment.

rml_16

Long term weight / fat loss plateaus clearly exist - it's called maintenance.

A plateau in terms of dieting is not simply about the scale - it is also about no movement in body measurements or visual markers at the same time. If your scale is not moving but there are clear signs of improvement in body composition then obviously that is not a plateau.

What does not exist in my opinion is a plateau that cannot be explained one way or another (usually by under reporting of calorie intake or over estimating calorie burn.)

Good article here:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/217761--unexplainable-fat-loss-plateaus-explained-tom-ve

Mine was due to the BC I was on. But since that's hormone-related, I believe there are probably plenty of people who have the issue without being on BC, just messed up hormones. It isn't always about diet and exercise.

Diet and exercise can both affect hormones, just as quickly as birth control can. Hormonal issues are one of the reasons that the VLCD folks that have little to lose have so much trouble.

You have provided an example of how msf74 is correct. There are always explanations, even if those explanations are not known or understood.

I've never said there weren't reasons behind them. But those reasons are not always user error, which is the basic premise of the OP and a lot of other people on this site.

DanaDark

Your personal experience is NOT a study. Just an FYI.

I wish your personal experience was the truth. My TDEE is supposed to be 1810 without exercise. An entire month of eating 1380 calories with eating back half my exercise calories resulted in no further weight loss. When I upped to 1500 for a few weeks, still no weight loss and no weight gain. At 1800 a week, still no changes at all. Went as low as 1280 for a few weeks and no change their either.

It has been over 3 months since the scale has changed for me.

WendyTerry420

You have a lot to lose and haven't been at this for long. As you get smaller, losing weight will become harder. Your spreadsheet only accounts for right now. If you don't make adjustments, you WILL eventually plateau. I've been doing this 3 times as long as you have and had as much to lose. I have done my own "study" and I am certain that you will eventually change your mind about your conclusions here.

Since we're all presenting anecdote as universal fact, why not add another?

Your experience is not mine. I've lost 136 pounds. As I got smaller, losing weight did not become harder. My weight loss only slowed down when I chose to slow it down by increasing my calorie intake and therefore decreasing my deficit. I was still losing nearly two pounds a week when I was 15 pounds from goal and I was eating around 2,000 calories a day (at that point, I did increase my intake because I was training for an endurance event and needed the additional fuel, and did not want to compromise my performance - actively trying to lose weight would have done that).

I am not "certain" OP will change his mind.

I don't know why my experience is different than yours - perhaps it was my method of increasing my calorie goal as I lost weight instead of decreasing it as so many people do; perhaps it was my exercise routine; perhaps it was my diet; perhaps I did not experience a hormonal shift like many dieters do.

What I do know is that plateaus are not inevitable, and for me, I lost weight at the deficit at which I ate, regardless of whether I had 135 pounds to lose or 10.

Obviously we will all have different experiences, but OP's suggestion that one create a spreadsheet to track one's losses and minimize the disappoint with low weeks is a good one in my opinion.

I'm certain your experience is different. You were training for an endurance event. I don't pursue athletics at all. My cardio and strength training workouts are moderate at best. Also, I identified that the OP stated that he was netting 1500 calories below his TDEE daily... that is a serious deficit to be sure. That is NOT 2000 calories a day like the diet you consumed to lose your weight. As I said, true scientific studies have proven that a daily calorie deficit greater than 300 calories results in the loss of muscle. Muscle burns more calories than fat so that muscle loss will slow his metabolism. Now here is where I can't rightly swear off definitively that the OP will plateau. So, for the sake of not mincing anymore words as has already been done in this thread, the circumstances with which the OP is generating his weight loss will increase the likelihood that he will plateau. There ya go!

And because I've been using a similar spreadsheet, I have discovered that my deficit is also too large, and I'm increasing my calories again.

Spreadsheets rock! :drinker:

RikanSoulja

TL:DR?

UsedToBeHusky

You have a lot to lose and haven't been at this for long. As you get smaller, losing weight will become harder. Your spreadsheet only accounts for right now. If you don't make adjustments, you WILL eventually plateau. I've been doing this 3 times as long as you have and had as much to lose. I have done my own "study" and I am certain that you will eventually change your mind about your conclusions here.

Since we're all presenting anecdote as universal fact, why not add another?

Your experience is not mine. I've lost 136 pounds. As I got smaller, losing weight did not become harder. My weight loss only slowed down when I chose to slow it down by increasing my calorie intake and therefore decreasing my deficit. I was still losing nearly two pounds a week when I was 15 pounds from goal and I was eating around 2,000 calories a day (at that point, I did increase my intake because I was training for an endurance event and needed the additional fuel, and did not want to compromise my performance - actively trying to lose weight would have done that).

I am not "certain" OP will change his mind.

I don't know why my experience is different than yours - perhaps it was my method of increasing my calorie goal as I lost weight instead of decreasing it as so many people do; perhaps it was my exercise routine; perhaps it was my diet; perhaps I did not experience a hormonal shift like many dieters do.

What I do know is that plateaus are not inevitable, and for me, I lost weight at the deficit at which I ate, regardless of whether I had 135 pounds to lose or 10.

Obviously we will all have different experiences, but OP's suggestion that one create a spreadsheet to track one's losses and minimize the disappoint with low weeks is a good one in my opinion.

I'm certain your experience is different. You were training for an endurance event. I don't pursue athletics at all. My cardio and strength training workouts are moderate at best. Also, I identified that the OP stated that he was netting 1500 calories below his TDEE daily... that is a serious deficit to be sure. That is NOT 2000 calories a day like the diet you consumed to lose your weight. As I said, true scientific studies have proven that a daily calorie deficit greater than 300 calories results in the loss of muscle. Muscle burns more calories than fat so that muscle loss will slow his metabolism. Now here is where I can't rightly swear off definitively that the OP will plateau. So, for the sake of not mincing anymore words as has already been done in this thread, the circumstances with which the OP is generating his weight loss will increase the likelihood that he will plateau. There ya go!

And because I've been using a similar spreadsheet, I have discovered that my deficit is also too large, and I'm increasing my calories again.

Spreadsheets rock! :drinker:

I'm not criticizing the spreadsheet. I'm criticizing the OP's claims that he thinks his spreadsheet proves. I actually use my own spreadsheet.

jhoyett

GOOD STUFF!

willwillywilson

peterdt

This. If what he's doing works for him and may help others, I'm all for it. But to make the blanket statement that a "study reveals" that plateaus aren't real is ridiculous and insulting.

Then people are way too easily insulted. As if the idea of a plateau was invented by them personally, and someone rejecting it terminally offends them.

If you have been on a plateau, I would think you are more likely to take offense. Those on a true plateau bust their a$$es, log their food religiously, and weigh and measure everything. Can you imagine putting in all that effort and NOT seeing the scale move? The OP hasn't even been at this long enough to experience a plateau, but the way he is going about this... it is definitely coming. But what do we know. We have only been working this program for years.

I don't have to imagine it.. I've been on "plateaus". Long ones.
But like I said, I was usually causing them myself. But even if I had been genuinely stuck I wouldn't been offended by the post.

I don't think he was insulting everyone who's ever hit a plateau. I think he was saying, "I tried this, and it helped me to see that my data wasn't quite accurate".

But honestly, you have no idea how long he's been at it. He's probably a yo yo dieter like most of the rest of us. The fact that his profile doesn't detail his weight loss efforts for his entire life doesn't mean much.

I reiterate. Too easily offended.

I can see now that plateaus are a very touchy subject for some. And rightfully so. A lot of frustration when you think you are doing everything right and trying to be patient and no result for a month or so.

BUT if you are experiencing this I still say you should put it on a spreadsheet.

Being on this site for years does not make you an expert either. Also, plenty of people lose it all without ever hitting a major plateau