Views on Whole Food Plant based diet?
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I'm well versed in trans fats. You mentioned vegans didn't have to worry about them. While you as a vegan might not eat any, trans fats are as vegan as it gets. I'm sure not all vegans eat non processed foods, which is where all the trans fat is, and the reason why I asked.......maybe you should consider your fellow vegan when answering questions in general about your diet, no?
That's the best nutritional answer ever. What about trans fats, saturated fats and sugar, considering your on a roll.
k
Since they were discussing protein, yes I was serious, and the poster unsuccessfully deflected the argument away with, we don't need that much protein, which has nothing to do with the comparison, and then asked why people think carbs are bad, who is saying they are?.....really don't know what to say about that defense.
100 g's of cooked quinoa has 4 g's of protein and around 20 g's of carbs about 120 calories, so really it's a carb source not a protein source. 100g's of tilapia has 20 g's of protein and a plate full of vegetables will still be about the same amount of calories. How much quinoa would be the equivalent........just over a lb with 600 calories.
It is true. Sure, soy, quinoa, amaranth, hemp seed all have complete protein. True. Quality, bioavailable protein, not so much. Isolated, can these proteins replace animal base protein? Sure. But that is not in the realm of non- wealthy peoples reality.The only real quality protein is from animal sources… some merit, of course, but we need animal sourced protein. Most Americans can do with less. I am just partway through the film… but I will remark more throughout probably..
'Always' statements are rarely true, such as: "The only real quality protein is from animal sources.'
can you explain how I bought 2lbs of quinoa for $4.50 then? When I used to buy meat, a pound of lean ground beef was that price or higher which yields way fewer servings than the same price I paid for 2lbs of quinoa..
Seriously are you trying to compare tilapia to quinoa? Lol if you want to talk about protein try comparing any kind of fish to Spirulina. Compare it by weight. Spirulina will take nutritional ****s on any of your favorite meat products. You wanna talj about Omega 3 fatty aacids? Do you know what they are? That's right Spirulina, chlorella and wheatgrass juice all contain more omefa 3's than fish and eggs. The eggs with the highest amount of Omega 3's are the eggs from free range hens that were fed lots of greens more than grains. You can't debate health and nutrition with a vegan. You won't win. A healthy vegan diet is the healthiest diet, period!
As far as omega 3's and the vegan diet are concerned, that's pretty much traveled ground, so it's hard to to understand what your trying to say, and considering I can't debate health and nutrition with a vegan, I guess you'll have the unconditional right to misinform the general population and only discuss it with your fellow vegans, is that right? That must also be the reason I didn't get a response to this in another thread:Thank you and yes my mom has lost weight. It's nicely reflected on her face. I don't track my vitamins anf minerals or my calories. That's another good thing about being vegan you don't have to worry about sugars or calories or saturated fats, trans fats etc..
Glad your mom is feeling better. What do you mean you don't have to worry about sugar, calories, saturated fat or trans fats, those are all found in a vegan diet?
Maybe you can enlighten all of us with an answer....I'm sure all vegans would like to know the answer to this one, as well.
I don't count calories and carbs because vegans on a plant based diet don't have to. There's your answer. You will never see an overweight vegan that eats nothing but a plant based diet. Unless it's someone that just started eating a vegan diet. Ok there, anymore questions?
What do you want to know about trans fats? There's none in my diet so why should I worry about them? The recommended intake of nuts which do contain some saturated fats is about a handful daily. They contain more unsaturated fats which are healthy and due to the fiber they and enzymes when eaten raw the body easily digests and eliminates the unnecessary nutrients. And sugar what about it what fo you want to know about sugar cane?0 -
I'm well versed in trans fats. You mentioned vegans didn't have to worry about them. While you as a vegan might not eat any, trans fats are as vegan as it gets. I'm sure not all vegans eat non processed foods, which is where all the trans fat is, and the reason why I asked.......maybe you should consider your fellow vegan when answering questions in general about your diet, no?
That's the best nutritional answer ever. What about trans fats, saturated fats and sugar, considering your on a roll.
k
Since they were discussing protein, yes I was serious, and the poster unsuccessfully deflected the argument away with, we don't need that much protein, which has nothing to do with the comparison, and then asked why people think carbs are bad, who is saying they are?.....really don't know what to say about that defense.
100 g's of cooked quinoa has 4 g's of protein and around 20 g's of carbs about 120 calories, so really it's a carb source not a protein source. 100g's of tilapia has 20 g's of protein and a plate full of vegetables will still be about the same amount of calories. How much quinoa would be the equivalent........just over a lb with 600 calories.
It is true. Sure, soy, quinoa, amaranth, hemp seed all have complete protein. True. Quality, bioavailable protein, not so much. Isolated, can these proteins replace animal base protein? Sure. But that is not in the realm of non- wealthy peoples reality.The only real quality protein is from animal sources… some merit, of course, but we need animal sourced protein. Most Americans can do with less. I am just partway through the film… but I will remark more throughout probably..
'Always' statements are rarely true, such as: "The only real quality protein is from animal sources.'
can you explain how I bought 2lbs of quinoa for $4.50 then? When I used to buy meat, a pound of lean ground beef was that price or higher which yields way fewer servings than the same price I paid for 2lbs of quinoa..
Seriously are you trying to compare tilapia to quinoa? Lol if you want to talk about protein try comparing any kind of fish to Spirulina. Compare it by weight. Spirulina will take nutritional ****s on any of your favorite meat products. You wanna talj about Omega 3 fatty aacids? Do you know what they are? That's right Spirulina, chlorella and wheatgrass juice all contain more omefa 3's than fish and eggs. The eggs with the highest amount of Omega 3's are the eggs from free range hens that were fed lots of greens more than grains. You can't debate health and nutrition with a vegan. You won't win. A healthy vegan diet is the healthiest diet, period!
As far as omega 3's and the vegan diet are concerned, that's pretty much traveled ground, so it's hard to to understand what your trying to say, and considering I can't debate health and nutrition with a vegan, I guess you'll have the unconditional right to misinform the general population and only discuss it with your fellow vegans, is that right? That must also be the reason I didn't get a response to this in another thread:Thank you and yes my mom has lost weight. It's nicely reflected on her face. I don't track my vitamins anf minerals or my calories. That's another good thing about being vegan you don't have to worry about sugars or calories or saturated fats, trans fats etc..
Glad your mom is feeling better. What do you mean you don't have to worry about sugar, calories, saturated fat or trans fats, those are all found in a vegan diet?
Maybe you can enlighten all of us with an answer....I'm sure all vegans would like to know the answer to this one, as well.
I don't count calories and carbs because vegans on a plant based diet don't have to. There's your answer. You will never see an overweight vegan that eats nothing but a plant based diet. Unless it's someone that just started eating a vegan diet. Ok there, anymore questions?
What do you want to know about trans fats? There's none in my diet so why should I worry about them? The recommended intake of nuts which do contain some saturated fats is about a handful daily. They contain more unsaturated fats which are healthy and due to the fiber they and enzymes when eaten raw the body easily digests and eliminates the unnecessary nutrients. And sugar what about it what fo you want to know about sugar cane?
The only unhealthy vegan foods that contain trans fats are processed foods like corn or canola oils for example and no i don't eat any of those. How many times do I have to mention that I eat a healthy vegan diet? Trans fats occur naturally in meat or dairy products which I avoid.0 -
About trans fats being vegan that is also debatable because there was no trans fats in corn or soy or canola etc... until man decides to hydrogenate the foods during the oil making process. Processed foods should not be a part of anyone trying to be healthy. It's just common sense.0
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^ Or animal cruelty! Been on a plant based diet for over 25 years now with zero health problems at almost 40 yrs old-I'm fit as fiddle. I feel good about my compassionate food choices. Once you eliminate meat from your diet you gain a better understanding of how it actually makes you feel especially it's mental toxicity. We have an obligation to the environment that supports us. But some people are afraid of change and the responsibility that awareness brings--I get that.It is actually a common myth that animal protein is superior, protein from plant sources are just as good (if not better than) as from animal sources and don't come with all the cholesterol and bad-fats that animal products do...0 -
The trans fats in meat and dairy are called conjugated linoleic acids (CLA) which are quite different from the man made partially hydrogenated polyunsaturated vegetable oils. Not all vegans eat unprocessed foods or don't use off the shelf vegetable oils like canola, corn and soy that all have trans fats in them from the deodorizing process in the refining of those oils, and not just in hydrogenated veg oils. Just thought I'd mention this distinction.The only unhealthy vegan foods that contain trans fats are processed foods like corn or canola oils for example and no i don't eat any of those. How many times do I have to mention that I eat a healthy vegan diet? Trans fats occur naturally in meat or dairy products which I avoid.0
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^ Or animal cruelty! Been on a plant based diet for over 25 years now with zero health problems at almost 40 yrs old-I'm fit as fiddle. I feel good about my compassionate food choices. Once you eliminate meat from your diet you gain a better understanding of how it actually makes you feel especially it's mental toxicity. We have an obligation to the environment that supports us. But some people are afraid of change and the responsibility that awareness brings--I get that.It is actually a common myth that animal protein is superior, protein from plant sources are just as good (if not better than) as from animal sources and don't come with all the cholesterol and bad-fats that animal products do...
Wow you look pretty good and young. No doubt that vegan women are hot. Congratulations.0 -
The trans fats in meat and dairy are called conjugated linoleic acids (CLA) which are quite different from the man made partially hydrogenated polyunsaturated vegetable oils. Not all vegans eat unprocessed foods or don't use off the shelf vegetable oils like canola, corn and soy that all have trans fats in them from the deodorizing process in the refining of those oils, and not just in hydrogenated veg oils. Just thought I'd mention this distinction.The only unhealthy vegan foods that contain trans fats are processed foods like corn or canola oils for example and no i don't eat any of those. How many times do I have to mention that I eat a healthy vegan diet? Trans fats occur naturally in meat or dairy products which I avoid.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know processed foods are bad. This is a weight losing forum so it's obvious that when I'm talking about a vegan diet I'm not including refined sugars, GMO's, trans fats etc... I guess I should have mentioned that from the beginning.0 -
There are lots of veg. athletes and bodybuilders. As far as bodybuilders go I happen to like vegan Jim Sitko
His blog has recipes and info for anyone interested: http://www.jimisitko.com/wordpress/0 -
There are lots of veg. athletes and bodybuilders. As far as bodybuilders go I happen to like vegan Jim Sitko
His blog has recipes and info for anyone interested: http://www.jimisitko.com/wordpress/
Thanks I'm interested.0 -
Actually, those have nothing to do with weight loss. Again a vegan diet does not naturally equate to healthy, even though yours might be. Just to be clear here, I do not believe a vegan diet is unhealthy, on the contrary I believe it can be very healthy....it's just the misinformation I'm disputing.The trans fats in meat and dairy are called conjugated linoleic acids (CLA) which are quite different from the man made partially hydrogenated polyunsaturated vegetable oils. Not all vegans eat unprocessed foods or don't use off the shelf vegetable oils like canola, corn and soy that all have trans fats in them from the deodorizing process in the refining of those oils, and not just in hydrogenated veg oils. Just thought I'd mention this distinction.The only unhealthy vegan foods that contain trans fats are processed foods like corn or canola oils for example and no i don't eat any of those. How many times do I have to mention that I eat a healthy vegan diet? Trans fats occur naturally in meat or dairy products which I avoid.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know processed foods are bad. This is a weight losing forum so it's obvious that when I'm talking about a vegan diet I'm not including refined sugars, GMO's, trans fats etc... I guess I should have mentioned that from the beginning.0 -
Sounds great, until you learn the fact that the human body is ridiculously inefficient at converting omega3s from plant sources. Spiraling may have more omega3s in it gram for gram, but your body will absorb far more of the omega3s from fish. It's not about how much nutrition a food item has in it, it's about bioavailability, and how much your body can process.
100 g's of cooked quinoa has 4 g's of protein and around 20 g's of carbs about 120 calories, so really it's a carb source not a protein source. 100g's of tilapia has 20 g's of protein and a plate full of vegetables will still be about the same amount of calories. How much quinoa would be the equivalent........just over a lb with 600 calories.
It is true. Sure, soy, quinoa, amaranth, hemp seed all have complete protein. True. Quality, bioavailable protein, not so much. Isolated, can these proteins replace animal base protein? Sure. But that is not in the realm of non- wealthy peoples reality.The only real quality protein is from animal sources… some merit, of course, but we need animal sourced protein. Most Americans can do with less. I am just partway through the film… but I will remark more throughout probably..
'Always' statements are rarely true, such as: "The only real quality protein is from animal sources.'
can you explain how I bought 2lbs of quinoa for $4.50 then? When I used to buy meat, a pound of lean ground beef was that price or higher which yields way fewer servings than the same price I paid for 2lbs of quinoa..
Seriously are you trying to compare tilapia to quinoa? Lol if you want to talk about protein try comparing any kind of fish to Spirulina. Compare it by weight. Spirulina will nutritionally backhand any of your favorite meat products. You want to talk about Omega 3 fatty acids? Do you know what they are? That's right Spirulina, chlorella and wheatgrass juice all contain more omega 3's than fish and eggs. The eggs with the highest amount of Omega 3's are the eggs from free range hens that were fed lots of greens more than grains. You can't debate health and nutrition with a vegan. You won't find any meat products with more vitamin C and antioxidants than Noni. There's no meat in the world with more antioxidants than pomegranate, noni, mangosteen, acai berries, goji berries, green tea, matcha etc.. You might fool other people that don't know much about the vegan diet but you won't fool me or others that have given it a try and felt the results.
It's like the silly white vs brown rice debate, sure brown rice has a slight edge in overall nutrition, but your body actually uses more nutrients from the white rice, because it can't absorb the nutrients in the brown rice.
Yes, you can get all the nutrients you need from a vegan diet, but it's not better than any other balanced diet. Oh, and for the record, spirulina isn't real food. It's a highly processed cyanobacteria supplement, so I'm not sure how it can even be mentioned when talking about a "WHOLE FOOD plant based diet."0 -
Anyway that you increase your fruit and vegetable intake has got to be good.
For ethical reasons, I have given being ovo-lacto vegetarian and also being vegan a good go on a few occasions. I've managed to be ovo-lacto for up to 3 years and vegan for up to 9 months. Each time, I've eventually gotten very tired and run down and then gone back to eating meat/fish and seen an almost instantaneous increase in energy and vitality. I have friends who have been vegetarian or vegan for years. I mention this because I think it is a diet that works for some people and not for others.
In this context, with regards children, I will mention that whilst I was living in Glasgow (Scotland) a few years ago, there was a case that made the front page of the local newspaper. There is a big vegan movement in Glasgow. A young child had severe spinal curvature and hospital doctors found that the child had bone density akin to someone elderly with severe osteoporosis. This, they thought, was down to the child be raised on a vegan diet from the time it could eat at all and being weaned from breast milk very early.
I mention these two things because 1) the diet is not for everyone but you probably need to try it to find out 2) People have different nutritional needs, so if you do try it, it could work for some in your family but not others 3) If you chose to do it as an adult, that is different thing from a child having it imposed on them, especially if they are too young to articulate their needs properly. Also, some people react badly to soy (it can cause thyroid problems and therefore weight problems in excess quantities for people who don't process it well).
That said, I have eaten at least 90% organic for over a decade, cook most things from scratch aim for 8-10 fruit and veg servings a day, only have organic/grass fed meat and poultry (game is a big feature) and processed food is an occasional thing. That's for my good and also the good of the environment.
Things you might want to try for lunch bags (as extras, not the whole meal, I think a protein based main item is a great plan):
1. Carrot sticks with houmous
2. Apples
3. Dried fruit and nuts
4. Pots of organic applesauce (there are often great ones in the babyfood section)
5. Tangerines/clementines that are easy for kids to peel
6. A banana with a little pot of peanut butter to dip it into
7. Bell peppers cut into strips, with a little homemade avocado dip (mash avocado with lemon or lime juice, and a little chilli if they like it)
8. Lettuce cups and wraps (use a lettuce leaf as you would a taco or tortilla)
9. Carrot, apple, celery and raisin salad- shred apples and carrots, add finely chopped celery and raisins or chopped dried apricots, mix a little citrus juice with oil and honey and a little dried or chopped herb of your choice, toss the salad through that. Add sesame seeds or chopped nuts if desired.
10. Mix soy yogurt and tahini for a dip to serve with raw veggies.
Hope this is helpful.
Oh and I would recommend the "Master your Metabolism Cookbook" by Jilllan Michaels. It has some great whole food recipes that are really tasty and delicious.0 -
Thank you! Bioavailability is the key as I have said!!! Flax seed oil is great, but you need twice as much flax seed oil as you do fish oil. Just like iron… iron in beef is a far superior product to the iron in broccoli. Broccoli is great, veggies are great, fruits, legumes, shrooms and all, are great, for their specific purposes… Eat more plants and less animals. I agree. But eat your critters!!
Sounds great, until you learn the fact that the human body is ridiculously inefficient at converting omega3s from plant sources. Spiraling may have more omega3s in it gram for gram, but your body will absorb far more of the omega3s from fish. It's not about how much nutrition a food item has in it, it's about bioavailability, and how much your body can process.
100 g's of cooked quinoa has 4 g's of protein and around 20 g's of carbs about 120 calories, so really it's a carb source not a protein source. 100g's of tilapia has 20 g's of protein and a plate full of vegetables will still be about the same amount of calories. How much quinoa would be the equivalent........just over a lb with 600 calories.
It is true. Sure, soy, quinoa, amaranth, hemp seed all have complete protein. True. Quality, bioavailable protein, not so much. Isolated, can these proteins replace animal base protein? Sure. But that is not in the realm of non- wealthy peoples reality.The only real quality protein is from animal sources… some merit, of course, but we need animal sourced protein. Most Americans can do with less. I am just partway through the film… but I will remark more throughout probably..
'Always' statements are rarely true, such as: "The only real quality protein is from animal sources.'
can you explain how I bought 2lbs of quinoa for $4.50 then? When I used to buy meat, a pound of lean ground beef was that price or higher which yields way fewer servings than the same price I paid for 2lbs of quinoa..
Seriously are you trying to compare tilapia to quinoa? Lol if you want to talk about protein try comparing any kind of fish to Spirulina. Compare it by weight. Spirulina will nutritionally backhand any of your favorite meat products. You want to talk about Omega 3 fatty acids? Do you know what they are? That's right Spirulina, chlorella and wheatgrass juice all contain more omega 3's than fish and eggs. The eggs with the highest amount of Omega 3's are the eggs from free range hens that were fed lots of greens more than grains. You can't debate health and nutrition with a vegan. You won't find any meat products with more vitamin C and antioxidants than Noni. There's no meat in the world with more antioxidants than pomegranate, noni, mangosteen, acai berries, goji berries, green tea, matcha etc.. You might fool other people that don't know much about the vegan diet but you won't fool me or others that have given it a try and felt the results.
It's like the silly white vs brown rice debate, sure brown rice has a slight edge in overall nutrition, but your body actually uses more nutrients from the white rice, because it can't absorb the nutrients in the brown rice.
Yes, you can get all the nutrients you need from a vegan diet, but it's not better than any other balanced diet. Oh, and for the record, spirulina isn't real food. It's a highly processed cyanobacteria supplement, so I'm not sure how it can even be mentioned when talking about a "WHOLE FOOD plant based diet."0 -
If your intention is losing weight and being healthy, I think you shouldn't take extra extreme measures. You have to change your eating from now on to the rest of your life, and if you feel restricted and deprived you would not be able to keep it for too long. I think it is a good idea to start cooking wholesome foods and avoid junk food as much as possible, but if you want to eat meat, just have lean meat and also veg. If you really do want to go vegetarian (I wouldn't say no, I've been vegetarian for over 14 years) go for it, but you have to do some research and probably introduce yourself to some new legumes and veggies.
Good luck.
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It works as far as weight loss goes, but it does require some heavy supplementation as there ARE key nutrients you aren't getting if you limit yourself exclusively to plant based foods. The biggest of which is Vitamin B12, sourced only from animals. It is important for neurological function and deficiencies of it have been known to lead to dementia/alzheimers later on in life. We as human beings were not meant to be exclusively plant OR animal eaters but both. And people who are cutting entire food groups out of their diet should be prepared to fork over money for supplements.
Also, Forks Over Knives was proven to have been based on a flawed study that has since been thrown out/disregarded.0 -
Hey there:
Yesterday I watched a dvd called Forks over Knives and it was quite interesting...it talks about whole food plant based diet and how it is beneficial for our health, how it actually can reverse desease..etc.
I am just a regular person, we eat meat, fast food (though I've cut out quite a bit of fast food), but the odd time I will pick up a pizza on the way from work...I would love to prepare better healthier meals...but I don't even know where to start. My husband loves meat, my kids hate veggies....and really is the meat free, dairy free diet really better for us?
As a kid i know I ate way less meat...
let me know what you think
There is a reason most authorities recommend a diet that is far more plant material than meat, and only modest servings of meat - research suggests that supplies a balance of all the nutrients the body needs for optimum health. There is indeed a strong correlation between the amount of whole mostly plant foods and positive health outcomes in the literature but there is also a correlation between oily fish and health. If you were going to switch, IMO pescaterian wholefood is healthiest.
You can't just cut out food groups and expect to be healthy, the body needs vitamins and antioxidants from veggies and fruits, minerals and fibre from beans/ lentils/ nuts/ seeds, vitamins and omega-3s from oily fish and so on. Meat is a concentrated source of protein but humans can only process a relatively small amount of protein at any one meal and it only supplies a limited range of micronutrients. Only cut out dairy if you are fully confident your children are eating enough calcium, magnesium and vitamin D for healthy bones.
Healthy eating is quite straightforward: start with working up to nine servings of fruits and vegetables in the full rainbow of colours. Most children will eat them in one form or another: smoothies, soups, fruit salad, mixed dried fruits and nuts, curries, stir fries, blended into tomato sauce on pasta, hidden in mashed potato. Switch all your starchy carbs to whole ones - wholegrains, beans, lentils, root veggies - whilst limiting heavily processed carbs like most breakfast cereals and breads. Then add in more healthy fats (nuts, seeds, avocado, creamed coconut, cocoa!) and oily fish: some kids will eat sardines in tomato sauce on toasted brown pitta, some will eat fish pate (mix with soft cheese) on oatcakes, some will eat flaked salmon in pasta, many will eat homemade fish fingers, try different recipes or ask the children to choose. Meanwhile cut your serving sizes of meat down to the official recommendations, this is easier if you use more ground or diced meat in stews and casseroles, than serving as a whole chunk.0 -
I have read so many actual scientific studies on this stuff. It isn't even a question. There is no question about it. You can get adequate protein as vegan only through taking very expensive vegan protein powders. Outside of that, you need animal sourced protein. A veg can do it, but they need dairy and eggs. On a regular basis.
BS, totally untrue. You can get totally adequate protein on a plant based diet. I would question your "scientific studies". We're they sponsored by agencies promoting animal consumption - this includes the USDA.0 -
Sponsored or not, you have none. Period. You can lie to yourself, and to everyone you are trying to proselytize, but you are misleading yourself and countless others. I feel sorry for you. I used to be in your shoes. It is a pitty that these health gurus don't get thrown in jail. These damn gurus are the ones that got that couple put in jail after their baby died of a vegan malnutrition last year. Poor parents were misled, and for the health gurus' crimes at that. They lost their child because of the BS you are pushing about vegan diets. Nuff said!!0
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I apologized to her for being a smart *kitten*.
Topher1978 did send me a very nice apology via private message. These topics get so heated so quickly- that is why I bowed out.0 -
There is NO PLANT that tastes like steak or BACON.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0
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