Milk and fiscal cliff
Replies
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Thankfully this just became a non-issue for at least another year...
http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/national/fiscal-cliff-2012-deal-reached-for-stopping-spike-in-milk-prices
Posted: 12/30/2012
By: Associated Press
WASHINGTON - The top leaders in both parties on the House and Senate Agriculture committees have agreed to a one-year extension of the 2008 farm bill that expired in October, a move that would head off a possible doubling of milk prices next month.
Senate Agriculture Committee Chairman Debbie Stabenow indicated that the House could vote on it as early as Sunday evening. The agreement to extend current farm law until next October was reached as negotiators hit a snag on averting a broader fiscal cliff combination of higher taxes and spending cuts Jan. 1.
Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack said Americans faced the prospect of paying $7 for a gallon if the current dairy program lapsed and the government returned to a 1948 formula for calculating milk price supports.0 -
I honestly wish subsidies would end. When you major in Econ in college you learn about how this negatively affects everything. Rent controls, price controls, faming subsidies, cost of gasoline, it's all insane. The true price of things should be what they are and less expensive alternatives will emerge in the market.
Sorry I got a little into politics. But, you can't discuss it without heading there, because that's the cause of it.
Edit: The original farm subsidies were designed more like a loan. If the market tanked the goverment would loan you money and use your crop as collateral until the price rebouned. Then we just switched to paying people to grow corn and soy, flooding the market with these now cheap commodities. Thus the growth of agribusiness and the death of real farms that grew a little bit of everything.
I've worked for the Farm Service Agency (the USDA agency responsible for federal farm programs) for 27 years and we have never paid farmers to grow corn or soybeans. This is a myth that is taught by way too many poorly informed professors. In fact, the money farmers EARN results in cleaner air, cleaner water and soil saved for future generations. It also keeps farmers in business so Americans can enjoy a cheap and safe supply of food. Farmers do not have the luxary to sell their commodities for a profit. They sell their commodities based on the Chicago Board of Trade, which means that get what they get, regardless if it means a profit or loss. In addition, they battle Mother Nature year after year hoping to have a good harvest so they HAVE something to sell. I don't know of too many individuals in business that will put in a FULL year's worth of hard labor without knowing how much money they will earn. But THANK GOODNESS farmers do!
Just a note, the agribusiness you speak of employs 2.4 MILLION people.
Farmers are a dying breed and I tip my hat them as they feed the world. Without them, we don't eat. I don't mean to get on a soap box, but I really wish American were better informed and educated in this area.0 -
There are 3 senate bills to save the milk being rushed through right now.0
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Correct me if I'm wrong but I do believe that the "milk cliff" and the fiscal cliff are entirely different bills. Last I heard, there was a compromise on a 1yr extension of the bill and is set to go through both House and Senate and they're expecting (if it is approved) it to be signed 1/1/130
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do these subsidies affect all milk production? Will milk prices from goats or sheep go up?0
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I do too. You can keep your Cows milk unless you get it directly from a local farmer and not the junk at Walmart, etc.I drink almond and coconut milks. Both better for you than cow milk0 -
I'm gladthat dairy is one of the things i have given uip a lot. however there are so many new alternatives now..almond,soy,coconut etc. i was doing a 50/50 almond/coconut but since cutting cals threw that out. My advice would be try mixing them if your hubby doesn't like the taste..w/ exception of the one w/ the allergic reaction.0
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Old news.
But yes you're right. Not only milk but all things that are made with milk.0 -
There are 3 senate bills to save the milk being rushed through right now.
A little late now. Maybe they should have done this when it expired months ago instead of arguing like fools.0 -
Societies have the right to create laws and distribute wealth in ways that maintain a healthy, prosperous population. The US doesn't do it nearly as well as many countries in Europe, however.
you
are
insane.
If you think Europe is a role model.... hahaha... wow
[/quote]
Insane might be a little strong, but I agree 100% on Europe being no role model. Greece ring a bell? The EU is a wonderland of fiscal irresponsibility.0 -
I honestly wish subsidies would end. When you major in Econ in college you learn about how this negatively affects everything. Rent controls, price controls, faming subsidies, cost of gasoline, it's all insane. The true price of things should be what they are and less expensive alternatives will emerge in the market.
Sorry I got a little into politics. But, you can't discuss it without heading there, because that's the cause of it.
Cause food riots are a blast, right?
That's what will happen if subsidies end.
Well, the government got itself in a pickle, didn't it. It wasn't intended this way. Each thing was a small way to help. But, now people have come to rely on the government controlling market dynamics. Which is pretty much why I laugh when people claim that the USA is a free market. My *kitten* we are. Lol.
Indeed we are not, and if you look at the countries with the closest thing to a free market what you will see is a very small number of very rich people and a whole lot of very poor people and a lot of slaughter.
Societies have the right to create laws and distribute wealth in ways that maintain a healthy, prosperous population. The US doesn't do it nearly as well as many countries in Europe, however.
you
are
insane.
If you think Europe is a role model.... hahaha... wow
Look at the standard of living rankings (they are published every year). Note which countries are on top.
Then make up your own mind.
Europe is broke, or haven't you heard. But then again, so are we.0 -
I honestly wish subsidies would end. When you major in Econ in college you learn about how this negatively affects everything. Rent controls, price controls, faming subsidies, cost of gasoline, it's all insane. The true price of things should be what they are and less expensive alternatives will emerge in the market.
Sorry I got a little into politics. But, you can't discuss it without heading there, because that's the cause of it.
Cause food riots are a blast, right?
That's what will happen if subsidies end.
Well, the government got itself in a pickle, didn't it. It wasn't intended this way. Each thing was a small way to help. But, now people have come to rely on the government controlling market dynamics. Which is pretty much why I laugh when people claim that the USA is a free market. My *kitten* we are. Lol.
Indeed we are not, and if you look at the countries with the closest thing to a free market what you will see is a very small number of very rich people and a whole lot of very poor people and a lot of slaughter.
Societies have the right to create laws and distribute wealth in ways that maintain a healthy, prosperous population. The US doesn't do it nearly as well as many countries in Europe, however.
It is not the job of society to distribute wealth, if you look they do a terrible job of it. How's the war on poverty doing that Johnson started? Entitlements are what are going to send us over the fiscal cliff ya know
I watched a documentary once where a bunch of people on social security were bad mouthing people who lived off said "entitlements". It seriously was too funny.0 -
Wow and I though political and economic discussions in undergrad were amusing. This is like watching a nutrition conversation in the foru . . . oh wait. This IS the forums. Never mind.0
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I don't drink milk, milk is for babies. I use soy milk for cooking.
not to mention how dairy cows are treated.0 -
duh.Wow and I though political and economic discussions in undergrad were amusing. This is like watching a nutrition conversation in the foru . . . oh wait. This IS the forums. Never mind.0 -
Correct me if I'm wrong but I do believe that the "milk cliff" and the fiscal cliff are entirely different bills. Last I heard, there was a compromise on a 1yr extension of the bill and is set to go through both House and Senate and they're expecting (if it is approved) it to be signed 1/1/13
You are correct! These are two separate issues. However, the press doesn't appear to realize it, hence the articles out there that combine the two issues.0 -
There are 3 senate bills to save the milk being rushed through right now.
A little late now. Maybe they should have done this when it expired months ago instead of arguing like fools.
The 2008 Farm Bill that regulates the price our government pays for milk and milk products (to feed the hungry) expires 12/31/12. But why rush! They have so much time. (Sarcasm intended.)0 -
We don't need no stinkin government handouts! What is this, an entitlement welfare nation?
(That was sarcasm, by the way, for those who lack a detector.)
It is gonna be one eventually at this rate. Like in everything. You want one thing, you have to cut back on another. Fun, fun, fun!
I love our welfare state. Couldn't afford hamburger, much less steak if beef wasn't subsidized out the wazoo. I'm surprised this fiscal cliffhanger bad joke isn't affecting that, too.
By the way, it isn't just me, most people couldn't afford beef if it weren't subsidized. If you're not rich and you eat steak, you're a welfare queen.
Of course some people want us to switch to meal worms, but I'm hoping workers will say enough is enough with that. Personally, before I'll eat worms I'll go on the millionaire diet. Because I'm sure beef fatted rich people taste better than worms!
Personally, I'd be worried about the concentration of toxins from all the beef the rich people eat, plus heaven knows what else they put in their bodies. I think I'll just stick to eating plants. Yes, I realize the government subsidizes corn (mostly feed corn), soy, wheat, and even rice, but given the level of subsidies on these products, as well as the inefficiency of animals converting corn to meat/milk/eggs, the actual price of these products is substantially lower than on meat, dairy, and eggs.
Eh, they can afford organic, free range stuff. And eating them would be great for the environment, since they use up the bulk of the planet's resources.
At least I think they do, I might be talking out my *kitten* on that one, too lazy to look it up.
Someone eating free range and organic is using less resources than someone who lives off of feed lot and factory farmed food. So, eating people like you would be better for the planet but probably not good for anyones health.0 -
:sad:I think my kids drink an insane amount of milk and can be wasteful. I'm pretty much a stickler for my kids to drink either milk, water or a bit of juice. Part of the increase for 2013 has nothing to do with the fiscal cliff and is due to the drought and the price of feed. Milk consumption is down in the U.S. is down - something like 30%. Partly due to milk prices, soda, energy drinks and coffee drinks. I wonder what will happen to the price of soda and fancy coffee drinks if the corn subsidies go away?
A local organic dairy sells non-homogenized milk from grass fed cows for 3.50 a half gallon. I will be curious to see what happens to the price of milk from this dairy. I got a feeling they get little in the way of subsidies. I'm prepared to cut back on milk.
You and I are thinking alike. This goes way beyond the price of a gallon of milk as Monsanto has had its finger in too many pies. We have a local dairy that sells to the public as well and I see a huge demand for their milk if the local Kroger bumps it up to $7 a gallon. And since we live in a high poverty area, most people will not really feel the pinch as much as one would think. My students have assured me that their food stamp allotment will increase proportionally.
I am not prepared to cut down on milk consumption but I am looking at other cuts I can make in the household budget. Not really sure how much more cutting I can do
BTW Love the paprika tin! I have one just like it in my spice cabinet
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We don't need no stinkin government handouts! What is this, an entitlement welfare nation?
(That was sarcasm, by the way, for those who lack a detector.)
It is gonna be one eventually at this rate. Like in everything. You want one thing, you have to cut back on another. Fun, fun, fun!
I love our welfare state. Couldn't afford hamburger, much less steak if beef wasn't subsidized out the wazoo. I'm surprised this fiscal cliffhanger bad joke isn't affecting that, too.
By the way, it isn't just me, most people couldn't afford beef if it weren't subsidized. If you're not rich and you eat steak, you're a welfare queen.
Of course some people want us to switch to meal worms, but I'm hoping workers will say enough is enough with that. Personally, before I'll eat worms I'll go on the millionaire diet. Because I'm sure beef fatted rich people taste better than worms!
Personally, I'd be worried about the concentration of toxins from all the beef the rich people eat, plus heaven knows what else they put in their bodies. I think I'll just stick to eating plants. Yes, I realize the government subsidizes corn (mostly feed corn), soy, wheat, and even rice, but given the level of subsidies on these products, as well as the inefficiency of animals converting corn to meat/milk/eggs, the actual price of these products is substantially lower than on meat, dairy, and eggs.
Eh, they can afford organic, free range stuff. And eating them would be great for the environment, since they use up the bulk of the planet's resources.
At least I think they do, I might be talking out my *kitten* on that one, too lazy to look it up.
Someone eating free range and organic is using less resources than someone who lives off of feed lot and factory farmed food. So, eating people like you would be better for the planet but probably not good for anyones health.
Soylent green, anyone?0 -
I honestly wish subsidies would end. When you major in Econ in college you learn about how this negatively affects everything. Rent controls, price controls, faming subsidies, cost of gasoline, it's all insane. The true price of things should be what they are and less expensive alternatives will emerge in the market.
Sorry I got a little into politics. But, you can't discuss it without heading there, because that's the cause of it.
But without subsidies, we would have to raise wages so people could afford food. And that would be *gasp* socialism!! Oh noes!!!
This is a discussion that needs to be had. I did not major in econ but I can see the potential negative effects of artificially supressed prices.0 -
Great discussion everyone and some good ideas. I honestly don't know what I'm going to do if a resolution isn't reached, will play it by ear.
On the egg side of it our city recently passed a regulation allowing a limited number of citizens to raise laying hens. So now our next door neighbor and one across the street have hens. I've already threatened them with egg theft.
Back when we had all of the kids living at home, we raised our own laying hens. If you intend to feed them nothing but chicken chow from the coop, then it will be more expensive than just buying the eggs. We had a larger area we could let our hens free range on for bugs and such and supplemented with grains. Those were the best tasting eggs and almost free in the long run! A dozen hens more than supplied our household and extra were given to friends and family.0 -
thanks obama!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!0
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"thanks obama!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
I really wondered how far into the thread I would have to read before I read that...0 -
"thanks obama!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
I really wondered how far into the thread I would have to read before I read that...
And yet, Obama has little, if nothing, to do with the Farm Bill. Legislators hash it out well before it ends up on the President's desk. It's the Congressional members that write the bill.
And everyone should stop worrying. Milk will not go up. The 2008 Farm Bill will be extend at least one year.0 -
I honestly wish subsidies would end. When you major in Econ in college you learn about how this negatively affects everything. Rent controls, price controls, faming subsidies, cost of gasoline, it's all insane. The true price of things should be what they are and less expensive alternatives will emerge in the market.
Sorry I got a little into politics. But, you can't discuss it without heading there, because that's the cause of it.
Cause food riots are a blast, right?
That's what will happen if subsidies end.
Well, the government got itself in a pickle, didn't it. It wasn't intended this way. Each thing was a small way to help. But, now people have come to rely on the government controlling market dynamics. Which is pretty much why I laugh when people claim that the USA is a free market. My *kitten* we are. Lol.
Gotta go with never on this one. Yes, the initial fallout would suck hard, but ultimately things would even out, and, as noted, other, less expensive alternatives would indeed emerge. This, of course, is all predicated on a truly free market. Ultimately, I think it would drive people to purchase locally; while it's sometimes more expensive right now, if subsidies end, it would likely be more cost effective. Highly doubtful we'll ever find out, though.0 -
Very well said!
And as for societies doing a terrible job of redistributing wealth, the US hasn't done so well, but many western European nations (e.g. the Dutch) have done a far better job at caring for their populous. In contrast, the US has taken a lot of half measures and has had little follow-through--pretty much a recipe for not solving a serious problem.
I feel compelled to point out that the Netherlands, and pretty much every other country that people like to reference in support of government control/regulation have a population that is a fraction of the US. It's much easier to provide free education, healthcare, etc… when you're doing it for a few million, as opposed to hundreds of millions.0 -
Forgive my ignorance, but how much do you pay for a gallon of milk in the states? I know in Canada (Quebec mind you), I'm paying $6.00 or so for 4 liters (roughly a gallon). Ontario pays a less than that I believe though.0
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Forgive my ignorance, but how much do you pay for a gallon of milk in the states? I know in Canada (Quebec mind you), I'm paying $6.00 or so for 4 liters (roughly a gallon). Ontario pays a less than that I believe though.
I pay $10/gal in nyc for raw milk. I'm not sure what it costs at the supermarket now but the last time I bought supermarket milk as a kid it was 2.75/gal0 -
we plan on raisinv them . they wont be pets unfortunately. when we get ready, theyll be slaughtered.
One of the neighbors with chickens is a crotchety old coot and when I asked him what his chickens names were he looked at me as if I were nuts. If I had chickens they would be my girls too.
LOL All 4 of mine have names. We lost two of our original three earlier this year and I buried them in our old horse pasture. A friend thought I was nuts for doing that. There's no point in having a rooster unless they free range (which they would not in the city) or if you want to raise chicks. They don't need a boy to make eggs. My hubby said absolutely not to a rooster because of the noise. The hens make hardly any noise at all.0
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