Fat Shaming: Drawing the line.

etoiles_argentees

I don't think I get it. Am I supposed to think that the models in the Dove ad are fat? Because I sure don't think that.
Personally, I think they look perfectly healthy to me. The Victoria's Secret models look a little anorexic. You can see the bones in the one models thigh.
BTW, the Dove models look happier, at least they are smiling.

They look anorexic? They look healthy to me. Soooo.....I look similar to them, I should feel shame? I don't. I wonder why the VS models are the highest paid models in the world? Some one must like the way they look.

halobender

Sure people shouldn't give a *kitten* what others think of them (especially on the internet), but why bother being a jerk if you don't have to be?

Because people are judgmental a-holes. It's just the way it is.

Part of it obviously comes from insecurities on behalf of those "shaming".

Part of it is probably because a lot of people don't really care about others.

I don't really care in general; I've had several girls tell me that I'm "too skinny" for them or something silly, things that may have seemed hurtful to some, and were definitely along the lines of "shaming," and how a "real man" should be built.

But whatever, it was always girls whom I would have considered outside of my scope of interest, so to speak. One finally admitted it was because she would feel bad about herself if I saw her naked. I think being uncomfortable in one's own skin is what causes this kind of stuff.

It doesn't bother me either way.

ihateroses

I'm not represented in either of the pics!!!

:grumble: :grumble: :grumble: :sad: :sad: :sad:

Guess I can't buy Dove or Vikkis Secret now.

p.s. The Dove Ad (just like the Vikkis Secret Ad) has arranged their models in an aesthetically pleasing way. Almost all of them are the same heights except a couple they threw in the mix (3 to be exact). It is a very calculated way to get you to buy their product.

And honestly every time I have seen the two ads compared I saw more of the "omg those Victorias Secret models look like they need to eat something!" and "Good job Dove for showing what 'real' women look like!". Not so much fat shaming.

I think both Ads look great. But thats all they are...ADs...buy their products if you want and move on.

lwagnitz

Fat shaming? More like body shaming period. Shaming someone because of their body period is just wrong. No matter if thin or "thick". I think the only time we should concern ourselves with someone else's body is if they are overweight and it's affecting their health. My bigger butt might gross you out, but I may be perfectly happy with it or even love. The gap between someone else's thighs might gross you out, but they might love it. As long as they don't have a body that is unhealthy we shouldn't be concerned...at you can't tell if someone is healthy just by looking at their body. My body is my body, and I could care less about other peoples bodies. If you're happy with yourself then there is no reason to be judging if someones arm is a little chubbier than you think it should be.

lwagnitz

Fat shaming? More like body shaming period. Shaming someone because of their body period is just wrong. No matter if thin or "thick". I think the only time we should concern ourselves with someone else's body is if they are overweight and it's affecting their health. My bigger butt might gross you out, but I may be perfectly happy with it or even love. The gap between someone else's thighs might gross you out, but they might love it. As long as they don't have a body that is unhealthy we shouldn't be concerned...at you can't tell if someone is healthy just by looking at their body. My body is my body, and I could care less about other peoples bodies. If you're happy with yourself then there is no reason to be judging if someones arm is a little chubbier than you think it should be.



**I would also like to point out that VS models are highly paid models, and modeling is their job. Therefore going to the gym is their job. Eating healthy is their job. Meaning they are able to put more time and energy into looking like they should...besides being blessed with tiny bodies and curves.

Natihilator

We've come to the conclusion that being how we are (read: fat) is not how we want to be, and this quickly develops into a feeling of fat shaming.

I don't think fat shaming means what you think it means.

Topher1978

We've gotten oh-so-sensitive about this. If you call someone fat, you're being rude, cruel, and stuck up; if you call someone skinny, you're just jealous because you're fat. That's crap. Some people are fat, some people are skinny, and very few people are 100% satisfied with their bodies. I think the point where it matters is when you start having medical problems because of your body, one way or the other. At that point, you're too curvy or too skinny. And while a lot of people might want to warn a friend to not gain more weight to avoid getting diabetes, or to eat more so she doesn't lose her period, I've found most people won't change until they have their own personal wake-up call. It comes from within. If someone were to ask me what I think of their body and their lifestyle I'll comment; otherwise it's none of my business, and I'll carry on doing what I'm doing and so will they.

Yes, and I am fat, getting fit!!

MaraDiaz

People need to stop defining others by their body shapes and sizes. I would go so far as to say this may have ruined my entire life. Ever since I was a teenager I've been horribly self-conscious about my body.

And to this day when I meet someone or hear about someone who is fat who has done amazing things, like working as a reporter in a war zone or doing service work in another country or marrying someone who is wildly in love with them, I am astonished.

That is how much I have learned to let my appearance dictate who I am. And I definitely do blame society.

MoreBean13

Victoria's secret's brand IS hot, skinny, big-tittied women in sexy lingerie. Dove is trying to sell more product by appealing to women by making them say "look how progressive Dove is to put 'regular' women as models! I support THAT! Dove soap for me!"

Both brands are selling stuff and have very smart advertising people in charge. I have no idea what the OP is trying to say with this post.

RonnieLodge

I really dislike Victoria's Secret. The only have one type of model - tall, very very thin with very long waists and little to no muscle tone. Some of them have surprisingly large busts considering breasts are mostly made of fat.

Their top models have said how they are always watching what they eat, working out for hours a day and living off liquid diets for weeks before they have shows/photos - and even then the photographs are photoshopped to death - which really irks me more than anything, as these women put so much hard work into their figures. But I guess the pay makes up for it.

The underwear is also far too expensive for stuff that looks so cheap.

MoreBean13

I really dislike Victoria's Secret. The only have one type of model - tall, very very thin with very long waists and little to no muscle tone. Some of them have surprisingly large busts considering breasts are mostly made of fat.

Their top models have said how they are always watching what they eat, working out for hours a day and living off liquid diets for weeks before they have shows/photos - and even then the photographs are photoshopped to death - which really irks me more than anything, as these women put so much hard work into their figures. But I guess the pay makes up for it.

The underwear is also far too expensive for stuff that looks so cheap.

Is silicone some kind of fat?

ETA: I actually disagree about them having no muscle tone, too. VS models are generally much more fit than high fashion models- they're actually kind of big in the modeling world. And, all professional photos are photoshopped.

yourenotmine

All the half nekkid touching is making me uncomfortable.

RonnieLodge

According to the World Health Organisation and National Health and Medical Research Council, for most people, no matter how tall they are, if the waist measurement is more than 80cm for women and 94cm for men they are at an increased risk of some lifestyle related chronic diseases e.g Type 2 diabetes, cardiovascular disease and some cancers.

toddis

It seems to me the more square footage on a body the more soap one would need and therefore Dove should be on board with large people. The larger the better.

RonnieLodge

That is why I find VS (and a lot of the fashion world) so weird, irritating and depressing - even with genetically blessed people dedicating hours every day to working out and watching what they eat, having breast implants put in and then a whole team of professionals doing their hair, lighting and makeup for a photo or a show - they STILL get photoshopped.

The untouched photos can't look that bad!

meshashesha2012

This is really a cultural thing, I would never dare call my American friends "fat" or even utter the word in their presence because everyone is so damn sensitive and it's ridiculous. I have no such problem with my Italian/Greek/Turkish/Chinese friends, in these cultures if you're fat it's a fact of life, not an insult meant to bring shame on you and your family. But yes if we're considering Americans I would just not weigh in (outside of MFP haha) on what I think someone ought to weight

it's a new american thing. basically some women are no longer being told via the media that they are the most beautiful and the most desirable so NOW unrealistic advertising is a problem. it's only a problem when they aren't being validated but they were totally fine with it when they were :laugh:

trust me, we're not all that sensitive

Acg67

That said, everyone has their own goals in mind. There are big-boned people out there who are going to be curvy no matter how much they try, their bodies can become healthy but not model-thin. There are a lot of people who don't even believe model-thin is the way to be, and a full-bodied (though not obese) shape is the way to go.

MoreBean13

It seems to me the more square footage on a body the more soap one would need and therefore Dove should be on board with large people. The larger the better.

Good logic. But, I have to shower 2x as much when I'm working out every day, so more soap for active people?

AntWrig

I will actually start caring, when I starting reaching my goals for everyone else. Who gives a **** what other think? Instead of complaining about "fat shaming", how about you lift something? One is only shamed if they allow to be shamed.

RhonndaJ

Some people try to discount the importance of the impact of advertising by saying 'they're just trying to sell a product'.

There's nothing wrong with that statement, both VS and Dove are trying to market their products. But comparatively I think Dove's marketing is hugely better that VS's.

VS markets on fantasy. Their models represent only a tiny percentage of women in the Western world. This type of advertising has been shown to impact how young girls perceive themselves and others.

Dove markets on 'real'. Their models represent a greater number of women in the Western world. I don't know if this type of advertising has been studied to see it's impact on the mindset of younger generations, but I'd certainly be interested to read anything that's been done.

What appeals to me about Dove's marketing, is exactly what they want to appeal. I can see myself as those models, where the VS models are an impossibility. They're selling to 'me' not some 'fantasy'.

Thing is, their marketing doesn't work on me. I can't buy VS products and I don't by Dove products, simply because I prefer other products.

I know there will be people who say that the VS models are fitter and healthier, just because they are visually thinner. But when it comes down it, I don't know if that's true, or not.

Not all models live a healthy, fit lifestyle. In fact, historically speaking, fashion models have been forced to live an extremely unhealthy lifestyle to fit into the extreme expectations of the media. At the same time, the models in the Dove ad probably do fall into the overweight/obese category, but this doesn't necessarily mean that they aren't both healthy and fit.

When it comes to fat shaming... I don't see that in ads. I do see it in people's perception of the models in those ads. And I see it on these boards a great deal when people refer negatively to their present selves, or their former selves.