Fat Shaming: Drawing the line.
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@looses- you've obviously never been a smoker. Smoking shaming happens constantly. People will come up to you unprompted, in designated smoking areas, and tell you they hope you dont have kids and you should be ashamed of yourself. They will lecture you as if you might have never heard smoking can be bad for you. I've even seen whole threads dedicated to how stupid people must be to smoke in their cars when they leave the gym, and how they shouldn't be allowed to smoke outside a gym because healthy people have to smell it as they walk by, and those 2 seconds might give that person cancer. To be clear, I am in no way arguing smoking is a good thing, but to say those people dont get shamed is absurd.
No, I've never been a smoker, although my parents have both smoked my entire life, and I've never witnessed them being shamed for it, even when they would smoke around me and my brother, etc. My extended family let it slide because they all smoked too, and so on. Perhaps it just happens when I'm not around. Who knows. And maybe it's not an entirely apples-to-apples comparison, but, for example, in high school smoking is considered attractive by a lot of kids. I know a lot of girls who started smoking because of that, and I know loads of girls who find it "hot/sexy" when guys smoke. I've encountered few people who want to GAIN weight to look attractive. Hopefully I didn't offend you?? And I definitely didn't mean to imply that smoking shaming never happens, but I think it's possible that more people let smoking slide than weight. But we've both had different experiences, it seems, so who knows.0 -
@looses- you've obviously never been a smoker. Smoking shaming happens constantly. People will come up to you unprompted, in designated smoking areas, and tell you they hope you dont have kids and you should be ashamed of yourself. They will lecture you as if you might have never heard smoking can be bad for you. I've even seen whole threads dedicated to how stupid people must be to smoke in their cars when they leave the gym, and how they shouldn't be allowed to smoke outside a gym because healthy people have to smell it as they walk by, and those 2 seconds might give that person cancer. To be clear, I am in no way arguing smoking is a good thing, but to say those people dont get shamed is absurd.
No, I've never been a smoker, although my parents have both smoked my entire life, and I've never witnessed them being shamed for it, even when they would smoke around me and my brother, etc. My extended family let it slide because they all smoked too, and so on. Perhaps it just happens when I'm not around. Who knows. And maybe it's not an entirely apples-to-apples comparison, but, for example, in high school smoking is considered attractive by a lot of kids. I know a lot of girls who started smoking because of that, and I know loads of girls who find it "hot/sexy" when guys smoke. I've encountered few people who want to GAIN weight to look attractive. Hopefully I didn't offend you?? And I definitely didn't mean to imply that smoking shaming never happens, but I think it's possible that more people let smoking slide than weight. But we've both had different experiences, it seems, so who knows.
I've been smoker-shamed (before I quit) and fat shamed...it's not pretty. But you choose what you let bother you and you choose how you take things - whether it is being "shamed" or being encouraged to your goals.
Edited to correct typos0 -
@looses- you've obviously never been a smoker. Smoking shaming happens constantly. People will come up to you unprompted, in designated smoking areas, and tell you they hope you dont have kids and you should be ashamed of yourself. They will lecture you as if you might have never heard smoking can be bad for you. I've even seen whole threads dedicated to how stupid people must be to smoke in their cars when they leave the gym, and how they shouldn't be allowed to smoke outside a gym because healthy people have to smell it as they walk by, and those 2 seconds might give that person cancer. To be clear, I am in no way arguing smoking is a good thing, but to say those people dont get shamed is absurd.
No, I've never been a smoker, although my parents have both smoked my entire life, and I've never witnessed them being shamed for it, even when they would smoke around me and my brother, etc. My extended family let it slide because they all smoked too, and so on. Perhaps it just happens when I'm not around. Who knows. And maybe it's not an entirely apples-to-apples comparison, but, for example, in high school smoking is considered attractive by a lot of kids. I know a lot of girls who started smoking because of that, and I know loads of girls who find it "hot/sexy" when guys smoke. I've encountered few people who want to GAIN weight to look attractive. Hopefully I didn't offend you?? And I definitely didn't mean to imply that smoking shaming never happens, but I think it's possible that more people let smoking slide than weight. But we've both had different experiences, it seems, so who knows.
Oh, no, lol, you didn't offend me at all. I dont smoke anymore, but it was running that got me to quit. Going to the gym was my quitting, so back in the day it really bothered me when people would gripe so hard about people smoking to/from the gym. Smoking for me wasn't actually that hard to quit, it just sort of fell out of habit when I got serious about running, but for a lot of people its an addiction that is totally overpowering. Actually, its a pretty good comparison to being overweight the more I think about it- its unhealthy, and the solution is simple, but extremely hard to follow through on. And the same kind of comments get made, like "did you know smoking/obesity is unhealthy and costs a lot of money?" like, no *kitten* Sherlock, really? I never noticed, thanks for bringing it to my attention, I will stop being fat now (or smoking, or both). But yeah, no offense taken, just pointing out that it definitely happens. Good point though on people getting hooked by thinking its cool or sexy, that would be an unusual way to get fat. (though only a few days ago I learned about "feeder" fetishes, which is pretty much that...don't google at work, lol)0 -
Oh, no, lol, you didn't offend me at all. I dont smoke anymore, but it was running that got me to quit. Going to the gym was my quitting, so back in the day it really bothered me when people would gripe so hard about people smoking to/from the gym. Smoking for me wasn't actually that hard to quit, it just sort of fell out of habit when I got serious about running, but for a lot of people its an addiction that is totally overpowering. Actually, its a pretty good comparison to being overweight the more I think about it- its unhealthy, and the solution is simple, but extremely hard to follow through on. And the same kind of comments get made, like "did you know smoking/obesity is unhealthy and costs a lot of money?" like, no *kitten* Sherlock, really? I never noticed, thanks for bringing it to my attention, I will stop being fat now (or smoking, or both). But yeah, no offense taken, just pointing out that it definitely happens. Good point though on people getting hooked by thinking its cool or sexy, that would be an unusual way to get fat. (though only a few days ago I learned about "feeder" fetishes, which is pretty much that...don't google at work, lol)
Congrats for quitting!! And the more I think it through, the more I see your point about the similarities. I suppose, at the end of the day, there are few bad habits that don't go unshamed in one way or another (though I still think it would be great if we could learn to mind our own business).0 -
I'm 64, ad I've seen a lot more acceptance of size diversity than when I was a teen growing up in the Midwestern US. This acceptance is not found among all people, but it's there far more often than 50 years ago. And I admit, not in advertising, except for exceptions like the Dove ad.
I have a friend who is very significantly obese, with chronic, associated health issues- keeps talking but not doing anything. It's one of the reasons I joined MFP, figured if I could change how I live, she can too. We have not talked about it; we live in different cities now. But soon she will see me over 20 lbs lighter and I hope ask, "How did you do it?"0 -
That said, everyone has their own goals in mind. There are big-boned people out there who are going to be curvy no matter how much they try, their bodies can become healthy but not model-thin. There are a lot of people who don't even believe model-thin is the way to be, and a full-bodied (though not obese) shape is the way to go.
Sorry but NOBODY is big boned at all. Bones are not why people are fat or bigger at all. I kinda wish people would stop using that as an excuse.
Actually, there are people who have bigger bones than others. I don't know if you realize, but there are many different body shapes/sizes. Some have smaller bones, some have larger bones. However, this isn't an excuse to be fat/obese, but some people can't be model thin and will remain curvy no matter what they do, just like the person stated. Using wrist circumference and waist to hip ratio are generally the methods used to find out if you are bigger boned or small boned...0 -
@looses- you've obviously never been a smoker. Smoking shaming happens constantly. People will come up to you unprompted, in designated smoking areas, and tell you they hope you dont have kids and you should be ashamed of yourself. They will lecture you as if you might have never heard smoking can be bad for you. I've even seen whole threads dedicated to how stupid people must be to smoke in their cars when they leave the gym, and how they shouldn't be allowed to smoke outside a gym because healthy people have to smell it as they walk by, and those 2 seconds might give that person cancer. To be clear, I am in no way arguing smoking is a good thing, but to say those people dont get shamed is absurd.
That is not shaming people who are smoking.....that is just people trying to watch out for their own health, and trying to help others. By trying to help others be healthier, they are not shaming. In a large majority of communities, people can't smoke next to a pulic building (due to laws). So, that person asking smokers to move further from the gym may of had every right to do so. The complaints are also logical; breathing in 2nd hand smoke is incredibly dangerous.
If you are comparing this to fat/body-shaming, you rather don't know much about body shaming, or you don't know much about people's rights, or how truly dangerous smoking can be, (and not just for the person enjoying their cigarette). People have every right to watch out for their own health, and I think (that while some people may go about it the wrong way) people wanting to help others better their health is an incredibly compassionate, and generous.0 -
That is not shaming people who are smoking.....that is just people trying to watch out for their own health, and trying to help others. By trying to help others be healthier, they are not shaming. In a large majority of communities, people can't smoke next to a pulic building (due to laws). So, that person asking smokers to move further from the gym may of had every right to do so. The complaints are also logical; breathing in 2nd hand smoke is incredibly dangerous.
If you are comparing this to fat/body-shaming, you rather don't know much about body shaming, or you don't know much about people's rights, or how truly dangerous smoking can be, (and not just for the person enjoying their cigarette). People have every right to watch out for their own health, and I think (that while some people may go about it the wrong way) people wanting to help others better their health is an incredibly compassionate, and generous.
Okay – I'll admit the smoking comparison was not a very good one. My bad.
That said, I don't think it negates the fact that fat-shaming is not good. I've been shamed for my body most of my life, so I have a solid idea of how it is for me (though I'd hate to speak for everyone). I agree that people have the right to watch out for their own health, but not the health of others (provided these people are capable of making decisions for themselves). Half of the fat shaming that occurs (in my opinion) seems to stem from the idea that there is something inherently bad about not being skinny or whatever. (I'm still a teen, so a lot of my experience with fat shaming has been by teenage girls who seem to draw some magical connection between a person's weight and their worth as a human being. Besides that, you've got songs, etc. that perpetuate the idea that being fit/attractive/not fat is going to get you places – see songs like "The New Workout Plan" by Kanye, for example.)
I can understand family members + close friends being concerned about my weight for health reasons, but I've never appreciated them calling me out on it, because it's something I've always been aware of; I needed to decide for myself to lose weight, and it took escaping the constant chorus of "you're eating that?" and "have you thought about losing weight" to make me commit. There's no positive way to tell a person to lose weight, and while their concerns may be "compassionate and generous" they tend to mostly just hurt the person's self-esteem (again, my experience).
And I'm not saying this is an excuse for no one to care about their weight – I appreciate the idea of being healthy, which is why I'm losing weight myself. But the idea that other people think they have the authority to decide for me what's best for me, when I know what's best for me, comes across (to me) as offensive.
Idk. I'm probably the unpopular opinion here, but I just figured I'd throw in my two cents.0 -
That is not shaming people who are smoking.....that is just people trying to watch out for their own health, and trying to help others. By trying to help others be healthier, they are not shaming. In a large majority of communities, people can't smoke next to a pulic building (due to laws). So, that person asking smokers to move further from the gym may of had every right to do so. The complaints are also logical; breathing in 2nd hand smoke is incredibly dangerous.
If you are comparing this to fat/body-shaming, you rather don't know much about body shaming, or you don't know much about people's rights, or how truly dangerous smoking can be, (and not just for the person enjoying their cigarette). People have every right to watch out for their own health, and I think (that while some people may go about it the wrong way) people wanting to help others better their health is an incredibly compassionate, and generous.
Okay – I'll admit the smoking comparison was not a very good one. My bad.
That said, I don't think it negates the fact that fat-shaming is not good. I've been shamed for my body most of my life, so I have a solid idea of how it is for me (though I'd hate to speak for everyone). I agree that people have the right to watch out for their own health, but not the health of others (provided these people are capable of making decisions for themselves). Half of the fat shaming that occurs (in my opinion) seems to stem from the idea that there is something inherently bad about not being skinny or whatever. (I'm still a teen, so a lot of my experience with fat shaming has been by teenage girls who seem to draw some magical connection between a person's weight and their worth as a human being. Besides that, you've got songs, etc. that perpetuate the idea that being fit/attractive/not fat is going to get you places – see songs like "The New Workout Plan" by Kanye, for example.)
I can understand family members + close friends being concerned about my weight for health reasons, but I've never appreciated them calling me out on it, because it's something I've always been aware of; I needed to decide for myself to lose weight, and it took escaping the constant chorus of "you're eating that?" and "have you thought about losing weight" to make me commit. There's no positive way to tell a person to lose weight, and while their concerns may be "compassionate and generous" they tend to mostly just hurt the person's self-esteem (again, my experience).
And I'm not saying this is an excuse for no one to care about their weight – I appreciate the idea of being healthy, which is why I'm losing weight myself. But the idea that other people think they have the authority to decide for me what's best for me, when I know what's best for me, comes across (to me) as offensive.
Idk. I'm probably the unpopular opinion here, but I just figured I'd throw in my two cents.
I was responding strictly to the smoke-shaming aspect of that comment! If you read back a bit, I made 2 comments on this thread about the issues of fat-shaming, and you pretty much just repeated what I said! ^.^ Yay for great minds thinking alike!
I just wanted to make sure you knew that I was not speaking as though smoke-shaming and fat-shaming were interchangeable. My opinion towards this concept of smoke shaming are 200% different than my opinions of fat/body shaming. :x0 -
I think being shamed in any way is not cool.0
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I was responding strictly to the smoke-shaming aspect of that comment! If you read back a bit, I made 2 comments on this thread about the issues of fat-shaming, and you pretty much just repeated what I said! ^.^ Yay for great minds thinking alike!
I just wanted to make sure you knew that I was not speaking as though smoke-shaming and fat-shaming were interchangeable. My opinion towards this concept of smoke shaming are 200% different than my opinions of fat/body shaming. :x
Ohhh, okay, gotcha!! I hadn't seen your other comments, but you're right.
Sorry for the confusion, haha. It's late and I'm tired and honestly shouldn't be allowed near the internet right now. 0 -
I was responding strictly to the smoke-shaming aspect of that comment! If you read back a bit, I made 2 comments on this thread about the issues of fat-shaming, and you pretty much just repeated what I said! ^.^ Yay for great minds thinking alike!
I just wanted to make sure you knew that I was not speaking as though smoke-shaming and fat-shaming were interchangeable. My opinion towards this concept of smoke shaming are 200% different than my opinions of fat/body shaming. :x
Ohhh, okay, gotcha!! I hadn't seen your other comments, but you're right. Sorry for the confusion, haha. It's late and I'm tired and honestly shouldn't be allowed near the internet right now.
TOUCHE my friend....I shouldn't be on either seeing how my brain is only working at about 5% of it's possible potential right now.....my brain is in a fog. xD Haha. Sleep well! ^.^0 -
Fat shaming? More like body shaming period. Shaming someone because of their body period is just wrong. No matter if thin or "thick". I think the only time we should concern ourselves with someone else's body is if they are overweight and it's affecting their health. My bigger butt might gross you out, but I may be perfectly happy with it or even love. The gap between someone else's thighs might gross you out, but they might love it. As long as they don't have a body that is unhealthy we shouldn't be concerned...at you can't tell if someone is healthy just by looking at their body. My body is my body, and I could care less about other peoples bodies. If you're happy with yourself then there is no reason to be judging if someones arm is a little chubbier than you think it should be.
**I would also like to point out that VS models are highly paid models, and modeling is their job. Therefore going to the gym is their job. Eating healthy is their job. Meaning they are able to put more time and energy into looking like they should...besides being blessed with tiny bodies and curves.
More or less this. Everyone in the world does not exist to be aesthetically pleasing to you, and it's a crappy, reality tv, cult of celebrity and porn attitude to think so. If you don't find someone attractive, don't have sex with them and move on with your life. If you are honestly worried about the health of someone you know, hopefully there are specific behaviors you worry about, and that can come from people who look any way at all. I was once concerned with an ex of mine's health because he was very skinny and pretty looking but smoked and his favorite food groups were hostess products, pizza, and mountain dew. If you don't know someone, at all, I doubt you are really concerned with their health because most people have evolved not to care as much about total strangers as they are people they know.
If someone you know or see everyday is not obstructing your life choices in any way, shape or form, you can't force them to do anything. If they are fat, a heavy drinker, a compulsive shopper, or just one of those annoying people who posts way too many pictures of themselves on Facebook- not your problem. If you have concerns, voice them once when it's appropriate to do so, or cut them out of your life if they bug you that much, but that's all you can do. They will change if and when they want to.
EDIT: Don't have sex with them can be replaced by whatever else you do with attractive people.0 -
Hmmm, why does anybody in this case women have to be one or the other to be a 'real" woman. I weigh over 300 lbs. And trust me I am real. I think nobody should feel shame about how they look. And yes nobody can "make" you feel something. On the other hand, "make" is a general term. I think sometimes people say or do things and don't realize how it affects others. For example, besides being fat (yes I said it), I am disabled and use a walker or a wheechair. Sometimes when people stare at me I do feel bad, I don't alway choose to let those who stare at me get to me. But on some days it really bugs me. I don't think that people in general are out to 'make" others feel bad about themselves. I just think we are all different and we feel different things at different times . And sometimes when we see or hear things repeatedly, we become conditioned. I also think there are some people who intend to be hurtful...they are just ignorant and will someday learn. The answer is simple....be loving to yourself and other...even when they don't look like others think they should....and if you feel unloved or slighted...just move on. If you weight a minute someone will come along and you will feel the love. And telling people not to be so sensitive..... well if I was not sensitive, that is when I begin to not be real. Peace out.0
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