Yes, PROTEIN after a workout, but HOW MUCH?

annepage

Just wondering how to gauge how much protein one should have for muscle repair after a workout. I imagine it's based on intensity as many things are, but how do you gauge how much you should have based on intensity, duration, your weight, height, etc?

BackTatJIM

Just shoot for 1 gram of protein per pound of lean body mass, normally spread through out the day. But to answer your question I normally consume 50- 70 grams post workout along with some type of carbohydrate.

CoachReddy

folks will argue on the exact number, but a ratio of anyhere from 2:1 to 4:1 (simple carb:protein) is generally the go to standard for recovery after a workout. figure out what ratio works best for you and go from there.

annepage

folks will argue on the exact number, but a ratio of anyhere from 2:1 to 4:1 (simple carb:protein) is generally the go to standard for recovery after a workout. figure out what ratio works best for you and go from there.

Not saavy enough to follow what you mean. So you mean for every 1g of protein, 4 carbs should accompany it? With a 33% body fat percentage, if there's nothing else I'm assuming 64% is lean muscle mass? So that would indicate 64 g of protein per day, but not sure how to target a specific amount of that 64g total towards muscle repair immediately after a workout. I had about 7g within 30 min and am really sore today so that probably wasn't close to enough.

CoachReddy

folks will argue on the exact number, but a ratio of anyhere from 2:1 to 4:1 (simple carb:protein) is generally the go to standard for recovery after a workout. figure out what ratio works best for you and go from there.

Not saavy enough to follow what you mean. So you mean for every 1g of protein, 4 carbs should accompany it? With a 33% body fat percentage, if there's nothing else I'm assuming 64% is lean muscle mass? So that would indicate 64 g of protein per day, but not sure how to target a specific amount of that 64g total towards muscle repair immediately after a workout. I had about 7g within 30 min and am really sore today so that probably wasn't close to enough.

sorry, my bad.

"One study, published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, pinpointed 20 grams as the best amount of postworkout protein to maximize muscle growth.

Read more: http://www.menshealth.com/mhlists/guide-to-protein/protein-after-workout.php#ixzz2HnLQXPra"

but again, a lot of it will have to do with trial and error for you and your body. so I'd argue to start with anywhere from 40 to 80g of carbs with 20g of protein and adjust as you need to. Obviously no one drink will have that many carbs unless it's got way more sugar than you want, so you can jump start recovery with some sort of post-workout drink, but then make your next meal carb heavy as well to continue the process.

does that make sense or still kinda vague?

annepage

folks will argue on the exact number, but a ratio of anyhere from 2:1 to 4:1 (simple carb:protein) is generally the go to standard for recovery after a workout. figure out what ratio works best for you and go from there.

Not saavy enough to follow what you mean. So you mean for every 1g of protein, 4 carbs should accompany it? With a 33% body fat percentage, if there's nothing else I'm assuming 64% is lean muscle mass? So that would indicate 64 g of protein per day, but not sure how to target a specific amount of that 64g total towards muscle repair immediately after a workout. I had about 7g within 30 min and am really sore today so that probably wasn't close to enough.

sorry, my bad.

"One study, published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, pinpointed 20 grams as the best amount of postworkout protein to maximize muscle growth.

Read more: http://www.menshealth.com/mhlists/guide-to-protein/protein-after-workout.php#ixzz2HnLQXPra"

but again, a lot of it will have to do with trial and error for you and your body. so I'd argue to start with anywhere from 40 to 80g of carbs with 20g of protein and adjust as you need to. Obviously no one drink will have that many carbs unless it's got way more sugar than you want, so you can jump start recovery with some sort of post-workout drink, but then make your next meal carb heavy as well to continue the process.

does that make sense or still kinda vague?

Checked out the article, thanks.

When you say 'carb heavy' does it matter whether the carbs are fruits and veg or grains and breads? If fruits and veg work, I'd rather go that route for the sake of weight loss while still trying to keep muscle repair up for strengthening/injury recovery.

Also, is the success of trial and error a person not feeling sore at all the next day or just feeling a minimal amount of soreness? I guess I don't know how to figure out what amounts work because I don't know what to look out for in terms of the correct amounts 'working' if that makes any sense.

Thanks for your help thus far ; very helpful.

Sarauk2sf

Don't worry about timing it. Just eat enough in the day.

shivles

I just have my shake which is 45g

GuybrushThreepw00d

About 50g from a protein shake...

xsmilexforxmex

Too much protein and your body will store what it can't immediately use. A general rule I use is no more than 45g after a work out. Usually I'll do a shake (45g) or a chicken breast (31g)... As far as soreness, it's not a cure all but no amount of protein will help if you aren't getting enough water.

---EDIT--- the 45g works for me, it might be more for you... everyone is different.

chrisdavey

Don't worry about timing it. Just eat enough in the day.

This

And many of the studies on protein post workout are done on fasted individuals.

AverageUkDude

There are set 2:1 protein shakes out there, i know PHD do some. That will help you with what was said above ^^ without having to work it out yourself.

taso42

1g for every rep. Then take your workout session time, divide by 2, and drink the protein within that amount of time.

For example, for a 60 minute workout that had 75 reps of squat-curls, you want 75g of protein with 30 minutes.

If it's, say, a 4 hour bike ride, you only need 0 grams of protein (since no actual reps performed), and you have to have those 0 grams within 2 hours.



Not serious. Have your protein any time.

takumaku

Suggested post workout ratio for runners, or any high calorie exercise is:
-- 3:1 carb/protein ratio for strength building endurance sports (e.g. sprinters)
-- 4:1 carb/protein ratio for endurance building endurance sports (e.g. long distance runners)

Chocolate milk is a good recovery drink. My standard recovery meal is 40g air popped popcorn + 1 oz peanuts.

CoachReddy

Don't worry about timing it. Just eat enough in the day.

don't listen to this. your muscles really are primed for protein uptake immediately post workout.

when DO you work out? morning or during the day/evening? because - for example - if you're like me and you work out on an empty stomach, a recovery drink is extremely useful at getting protein and carbs to my newly worked muscles.

I'd like to see a study saying timing doesn't matter though. never heard that. your body just suddenly knows to scoot some protein and carbs to the tired muscles even if it had been digesting them for use elsewhere? also does the type of food you eat PRE-workout matter in this case? do explain sarauk

CoachReddy

Too much protein and your body will store what it can't immediately use. A general rule I use is no more than 45g after a work out. Usually I'll do a shake (45g) or a chicken breast (31g)... As far as soreness, it's not a cure all but no amount of protein will help if you aren't getting enough water.

---EDIT--- the 45g works for me, it might be more for you... everyone is different.

bolded for truth. 50, 60g protein shakes are wasting your money. space that protein out over the day.

stfuriada

Don't worry about timing it. Just eat enough in the day.

This.

There is no 'anabolic window'.

jeffsweightloss

from what i know, you want slow digesting carbs before a workout to fuel it. afterwards, you want fast digesting carbs to drive nutrients and protein into your muscles. you want a slight insulin spike afterwards to open up your cells so they can get the nutrients they need. a good protein to take before bed is casein...it's a long acting protein and takes a while to digest so it fuels your body overnight. cottage cheese is a form of casein protein.

CoachReddy

from what i know, you want slow digesting carbs before a workout to fuel it. afterwards, you want fast digesting carbs to drive nutrients and protein into your muscles. you want a slight insulin spike afterwards to open up your cells so they can get the nutrients they need. a good protein to take before bed is casein...it's a long acting protein and takes a while to digest so it fuels your body overnight. cottage cheese is a form of casein protein.

this

haroon_awan

Phil Learney:

"The only meal as a note that requires a rapid and high spike in insulin is the post workout. During a workout we have damaged tissue and driven blood sugar down. This needs a reactive spike to bring blood sugar and insulin levels back to baseline and also drive amino acids to repair the damaged cells. Utilizing a post workout carb and protein drink is critical as this speeds up the absorption. Irrelevant of the makeup of an individual I would in almost ALL cases recommend a 2:1 ratio of carbs and protein post workout. This being based on 0.8g/kg and 0.4/kg respectively and on total bodyweight. This strategy also activates the powerful stimulator of muscle growth IGF-1 (Insulin-like growth factor -1)"

A lot of the science points to 2:1, but some advocate a 3:1 or 4:1 ratio.

For example:
I weigh 70kg
Carbs = 0.8*70 = 56g
Protein = 0.4*70 = 28g

So I have about 56g of carbs (from wazy maize) and 28g of protein (from whey concentrate or isolate).

Additional information for those interested:

Carl Gottlieb:

"Carb back-loading (high carb ingestion PWO): In this case a large insulin spike is important, in which case limiting fat in the same meal is useful (to prevent insulin blunting)....In general keeping fat consumption low PWO is a useful tool for many who are using carbs for performance/glycogen repletion purposes. Interestingly coconut oil (MCT) is a slight exception since it has been shown that if consumed in high enough quantities it will actually be insulinogenic and therefore add to the effect of a high-GI carb meal whilst backloading."

annepage

Don't worry about timing it. Just eat enough in the day.

don't listen to this. your muscles really are primed for protein uptake immediately post workout.

when DO you work out? morning or during the day/evening? because - for example - if you're like me and you work out on an empty stomach, a recovery drink is extremely useful at getting protein and carbs to my newly worked muscles.

I'd like to see a study saying timing doesn't matter though. never heard that. your body just suddenly knows to scoot some protein and carbs to the tired muscles even if it had been digesting them for use elsewhere? also does the type of food you eat PRE-workout matter in this case? do explain sarauk

I do strengthening in the afternoons. In general I don't eat a whole lot before the strengthening because I don't want to feel ill during it. So about an hour before I'll have either a couple slices of turkey, whole grain bread with a tsp of peanut butter or some dry cereal. What I do post workout varies, but I'm trying to keep it routine by usually having a 7g protein bar and then dinner a couple of hours later and a snack (varying from dry cereal, toast, piece of fruit, etc) before bed. Sometimes dinner includes protein and sometimes it doesn't.

I've been strengthening off and on for the last few months and didn't realize I needed protein afterwards and am wondering if this has contributed to the hinderance in recovery that I've been seeing. Hence all the questions now.

I'm also wondering how you know how much protein is "too much" so you don't damage your kidneys (assuming your kidneys are "normal" and aren't suffering any health issues).

annepage

1g for every rep. Then take your workout session time, divide by 2, and drink the protein within that amount of time.

For example, for a 60 minute workout that had 75 reps of squat-curls, you want 75g of protein with 30 minutes.

If it's, say, a 4 hour bike ride, you only need 0 grams of protein (since no actual reps performed), and you have to have those 0 grams within 2 hours.



Not serious. Have your protein any time.

The "not serious" part throws me. Not sure if this means strictness with protein is not needed or if the above is rubbish?

annepage

There are set 2:1 protein shakes out there, i know PHD do some. That will help you with what was said above ^^ without having to work it out yourself.

I just bought a large tub of Optimum Nutrition Whey Isolate so I'm going to have to work with figuring it out. Will take a look at these shakes though.

Sarauk2sf

1g for every rep. Then take your workout session time, divide by 2, and drink the protein within that amount of time.

For example, for a 60 minute workout that had 75 reps of squat-curls, you want 75g of protein with 30 minutes.

If it's, say, a 4 hour bike ride, you only need 0 grams of protein (since no actual reps performed), and you have to have those 0 grams within 2 hours.



Not serious. Have your protein any time.

The "not serious" part throws me. Not sure if this means strictness with protein is not needed or if the above is rubbish?

It means the above is rubbish

Sarauk2sf

Don't worry about timing it. Just eat enough in the day.

don't listen to this. your muscles really are primed for protein uptake immediately post workout.

when DO you work out? morning or during the day/evening? because - for example - if you're like me and you work out on an empty stomach, a recovery drink is extremely useful at getting protein and carbs to my newly worked muscles.

I'd like to see a study saying timing doesn't matter though. never heard that. your body just suddenly knows to scoot some protein and carbs to the tired muscles even if it had been digesting them for use elsewhere? also does the type of food you eat PRE-workout matter in this case? do explain sarauk

The only time a post workout meal may be beneficial is when there has been a long time between eating and/or are undertaking endurance exercises. Your body is still using food you have eaten before your workout.

Here: you asked for a study.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21289204

"Our results suggest that resistance exercise performed until failure confers a sensitizing effect on human skeletal muscle for at least 24 h that is specific to the myofibrillar protein fraction"

DopeItUp

Don't worry about timing it. Just eat enough in the day.

Correct!

CoachReddy

Don't worry about timing it. Just eat enough in the day.

don't listen to this. your muscles really are primed for protein uptake immediately post workout.

when DO you work out? morning or during the day/evening? because - for example - if you're like me and you work out on an empty stomach, a recovery drink is extremely useful at getting protein and carbs to my newly worked muscles.

I'd like to see a study saying timing doesn't matter though. never heard that. your body just suddenly knows to scoot some protein and carbs to the tired muscles even if it had been digesting them for use elsewhere? also does the type of food you eat PRE-workout matter in this case? do explain sarauk

I do strengthening in the afternoons. In general I don't eat a whole lot before the strengthening because I don't want to feel ill during it. So about an hour before I'll have either a couple slices of turkey, whole grain bread with a tsp of peanut butter or some dry cereal. What I do post workout varies, but I'm trying to keep it routine by usually having a 7g protein bar and then dinner a couple of hours later and a snack (varying from dry cereal, toast, piece of fruit, etc) before bed. Sometimes dinner includes protein and sometimes it doesn't.

I've been strengthening off and on for the last few months and didn't realize I needed protein afterwards and am wondering if this has contributed to the hinderance in recovery that I've been seeing. Hence all the questions now.

I'm also wondering how you know how much protein is "too much" so you don't damage your kidneys (assuming your kidneys are "normal" and aren't suffering any health issues).

a generally accepted amount of protein is anywhere from 1 to 1.5x your body weight in grams. you don't need more than that.

SideSteel

I wouldn't worry too much about the specific timing of your protein provided that you're consuming a sufficient amount by end of day.

SideSteel

Don't worry about timing it. Just eat enough in the day.

. your muscles really are primed for protein uptake immediately post workout.

^ Irrelevant in most contexts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73G3NQZi9NE

http://fitnfly.com/learn-about-food/nutrition-facts#_


Alan Aragon (someone who knows more about this than you and I combined):

Alan: The post-exercise “anabolic window” is a highly misused & abused concept. Preworkout nutrition all but cancels the urgency, unless you’re an endurance athlete with multiple glycogen-depleting events in a single day. Getting down to brass tacks, a relatively recent study (Power et al. 2009) showed that a 45g dose of whey protein isolate takes appx. 50 minutes to cause blood AA levels to peak. Resulting insulin levels, which peaked at 40 minutes after ingestion, remained at elevations known to max out the inhibition of muscle protein breakdown (15-30 mU/L) for 120 minutes after ingestion. This dose takes 3 hours for insulin & AA levels to return to baseline from the point of ingestion. The inclusion of carbs to this dose would cause AA & insulin levels to peak higher & stay elevated above baseline even longer.

So much for the anabolic peephole & the urgency to down AAs during your weight training workout; they are already seeping into circulation (& will continue to do so after your training bout is done). Even in the event that a preworkout meal is skipped, the anabolic effect of the postworkout meal is increased as a supercompensatory response (Deldicque et al, 2010). Moving on, another recent study (Staples et al, 2010) found that a substantial dose of carbohydrate (50g maltodextrin) added to 25g whey protein was unable to further increase post-exercise net muscle protein balance compared to the protein dose without carbs. Again, this is not to say that adding carbs at this point is counterproductive, but it certainly doesn’t support the idea that you must get your lightning-fast post-exercise carb orgy for optimal results.

Something that people don’t realize is that there’s no “magic anabolic window” that’s open for a short period of time near the workout & then rapidly disappears. As a result of a single training bout, the receptivity of muscle to protein dosing can persist for at least 24 hours (Burd et al, 2011).

CoachReddy

that makes sense to me. thanks for the info.

however, i work out on a near empty stomach in the morning, so POST-workout nutrition really does matter for me.

SideSteel

that makes sense to me. thanks for the info.

however, i work out on a near empty stomach in the morning, so POST-workout nutrition really does matter for me.

Post workout nutrition may matter in fasted individuals but the entire topic is a bit of a grey area yet, IMO. There's at least some evidence that it's not important even in fasted trainees due to a supercompensatory response to MPS when PWO nutrition is delayed.

Deldicque et al, 2010 (<

---

cannot locate the study or I would link it, looking for it now)

Even with all of this said, I still believe that it's "good insurance" to apply some moderation with protein dosing/timing at least as long as it fits without an individuals preferences. I believe Alan and a few other noteworthy people in the field still recommend getting in some protein somewhere near the training bout.