Yes, PROTEIN after a workout, but HOW MUCH?

ruggedBear

from what i know, you want slow digesting carbs before a workout to fuel it. afterwards, you want fast digesting carbs to drive nutrients and protein into your muscles. you want a slight insulin spike afterwards to open up your cells so they can get the nutrients they need. a good protein to take before bed is casein...it's a long acting protein and takes a while to digest so it fuels your body overnight. cottage cheese is a form of casein protein.

this

I read something similar in Nutrient Timing by John Ivy. Good read, albeit a bit difficult until you 'get' the terminology. Author seems legit (you can look him up in PubMed):

About the Author
John Ivy, Ph.D., is a professor and head of the department of Kinesiology and Health Education at the University of Texas. Dr. Ivy is a world-renowned expert on the role of nutrition and exercise performance. He has published over 150 research papers and review articles.

ahamm002

Here is a copy and paste from another topic i made

I vaguely remember that topic and I'm pretty sure that after analysing the studies you posted it was still apparent that protein was necessary for optimum muscle growth. Regardless, 120 grams of protein per day is still a decent amount of protein. It's far more than most people eat!

alexbusnello

annepage

Okay, so the amount of protein needed per day is determined by converting the percentage of lean body mass to grams?
I'm missing something with the previous posts' 1 to 1.5 times body's weight in grams of protein is what is needed per day because that number is way too high.

ex. 77% LBM -> 77g protein/day

vs.

140 lbs -> 1*140lbs=140 g protein/day or 1.5*140lbs = 95.25 kg protein/day <-way too large...

Sarauk2sf

Okay, so the amount of protein needed per day is determined by converting the percentage of lean body mass to grams?
I'm missing something with the previous posts' 1 to 1.5 times body's weight in grams of protein is what is needed per day because that number is way too high.

ex. 77% LBM -> 77g protein/day

vs.

140 lbs -> 1*140lbs=140 g protein/day or 1.5*140lbs = 95.25 kg protein/day <-way too large...

If you are active, take 1g per lb of lbm as a minimum.

AnvilHead

Okay, so the amount of protein needed per day is determined by converting the percentage of lean body mass to grams?
I'm missing something with the previous posts' 1 to 1.5 times body's weight in grams of protein is what is needed per day because that number is way too high.

ex. 77% LBM -> 77g protein/day

vs.

140 lbs -> 1*140lbs=140 g protein/day or 1.5*140lbs = 95.25 kg protein/day <-way too large...

If you have 140 lbs. of lean body mass, you would eat between 140 (140*1) to 210 (140*1.5) grams of protein per day.

AnvilHead

Recommend protein intake is based on Bodyfat and lean body mass. The higher fat you have the the less you need.

...which was exactly what I said (I'm assuming you're taking issue with what I wrote since you quoted me):

If you have 140 lbs. of lean body mass, you would eat between 140 (140*1) to 210 (140*1.5) grams of protein per day.

drusilla126

I have read that your body can only absorb 30 grams of protein at a time without it going to waste. Don't recall quite how that goes but I figure 10g per hour?

dave4d

I have read that your body can only absorb 30 grams of protein at a time without it going to waste. Don't recall quite how that goes but I figure 10g per hour?

I've read my many who only consume one to two meals a day, that the 30 gram absorption is myth. They do just fine getting over 100 grams of protein in one meal.

As far as how much protein to take post workout. I don't think it matters a whole lot. I take one scoop(around 24 grams of protein with a carb, but that is also probably bro-science.

juliekaiser1988

Drink a shake; eat a protein bar. Whatever. Stop overthinking it. I consume approximately 20-30 grams post workout.

Sarauk2sf

I have read that your body can only absorb 30 grams of protein at a time without it going to waste. Don't recall quite how that goes but I figure 10g per hour?

I've read my many who only consume one to two meals a day, that the 30 gram absorption is myth. They do just fine getting over 100 grams of protein in one meal.

As far as how much protein to take post workout. I don't think it matters a whole lot. I take one scoop(around 24 grams of protein with a carb, but that is also probably bro-science.

While getting all your protein in one meal is probably not optimal, the 30g thing is a myth:

http://www.wannabebig.com/diet-and-nutrition/is-there-a-limit-to-how-much-protein-the-body-can-use-in-a-single-meal/

LoveMyLife_NYC

You have a lot of different numbers floating around for how much protein you should eat. Is your lean body mass 140 pounds, or do you weight 140 pounds total? Check these links to estimate your LBM.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/lbm_calculator.htm

http://www.builtlean.com/2011/08/24/lean-body-mass-definition-formula/

But try not to over-think how you are eating. Spreading out protein throughout the day will help give you energy. If you're hungry, eat something. If not, don't force it. If you feel lethargic during or after your workouts, your body is telling you it needs more fuel.

haroon_awan

At the end of the day studies are important, but what's equally important in my opinion is when a personal trainer that you TRUST and has lots of EXPERIENCE recommends that you do something, you should listen to him or her.

My take on it: All the trainers I've spoken to say it's important to take a PWO shake of carbs and protein, so I do and I get good results.

mmapags

At the end of the day studies are important, but what's equally important in my opinion is when a personal trainer that you TRUST and has lots of EXPERIENCE recommends that you do something, you should listen to him or her.

My take on it: All the trainers I've spoken to say it's important to take a PWO shake of carbs and protein, so I do and I get good results.

Well you can trust your trainer if you'd like. Many trainers have questionable qualifications at best. Some are very good. I'll trust the studies and Alan Aragon who is one of the most respected fitness and nutrition experts in the business when they say the anabolic window is at least 24 hours. Alan has just a little bit of EXPERIENCE!

AnvilHead

Well you can trust your trainer if you'd like. Many trainers have questionable qualifications at best. Some are very good. I'll trust the studies and Alan Aragon who is one of the most respected fitness and nutrition experts in the business when they say the anabolic window is at least 24 hours. Alan has just a little bit of EXPERIENCE!

^ This.

If you want to learn more about protein than you ever thought you'd want to know, watch "The Protein Roundtable" on YouTube. Ian McCarthy, Alan Aragon and Eric Helms discussing various aspects of protein. Lots of scientifically researched facts, no broscience. Long, but definitely worth watching:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFObr7rc1kA

chrisdavey

Well you can trust your trainer if you'd like. Many trainers have questionable qualifications at best. Some are very good. I'll trust the studies and Alan Aragon who is one of the most respected fitness and nutrition experts in the business when they say the anabolic window is at least 24 hours. Alan has just a little bit of EXPERIENCE!

^ This.

If you want to learn more about protein than you ever thought you'd want to know, watch "The Protein Roundtable" on YouTube. Ian McCarthy, Alan Aragon and Eric Helms discussing various aspects of protein. Lots of scientifically researched facts, no broscience. Long, but definitely worth watching:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFObr7rc1kA

seconded.

Except Ian McCarthy certainly gets annoying after a while. But there is great info. there.

annepage

Okay, so the amount of protein needed per day is determined by converting the percentage of lean body mass to grams?
I'm missing something with the previous posts' 1 to 1.5 times body's weight in grams of protein is what is needed per day because that number is way too high.

ex. 77% LBM -> 77g protein/day

vs.

140 lbs -> 1*140lbs=140 g protein/day or 1.5*140lbs = 95.25 kg protein/day <-way too large...

If you have 140 lbs. of lean body mass, you would eat between 140 (140*1) to 210 (140*1.5) grams of protein per day.

Okay, that's where I went wrong. Didn't get lean body mass in pounds. Okay. 140 was total mass. 210 is much higher than MFP's recommended for me, but I've heard MFP's amount of protein might be low...

trojanbb

At the end of the day studies are important, but what's equally important in my opinion is when a personal trainer that you TRUST and has lots of EXPERIENCE recommends that you do something, you should listen to him or her.

My take on it: All the trainers I've spoken to say it's important to take a PWO shake of carbs and protein, so I do and I get good results.

Well you can trust your trainer if you'd like. Many trainers have questionable qualifications at best. Some are very good. I'll trust the studies and Alan Aragon who is one of the most respected fitness and nutrition experts in the business when they say the anabolic window is at least 24 hours. Alan has just a little bit of EXPERIENCE!

Except that Alan himself has articles showing increases protein synthesis following a workout, significantly higher than other times of the day.

Insulin makes a difference. Period.

SideSteel

At the end of the day studies are important, but what's equally important in my opinion is when a personal trainer that you TRUST and has lots of EXPERIENCE recommends that you do something, you should listen to him or her.

My take on it: All the trainers I've spoken to say it's important to take a PWO shake of carbs and protein, so I do and I get good results.

Well you can trust your trainer if you'd like. Many trainers have questionable qualifications at best. Some are very good. I'll trust the studies and Alan Aragon who is one of the most respected fitness and nutrition experts in the business when they say the anabolic window is at least 24 hours. Alan has just a little bit of EXPERIENCE!

Except that Alan himself has articles showing increases protein synthesis following a workout, significantly higher than other times of the day.

Insulin makes a difference. Period.

December 2010 AARR covers this topic in rather impressive detail in which he specifically discusses contextual differences in multiple studies. In many cases, nutrient overlap makes protein timing relatively unimportant.

ArroganceInStep

Except that Alan himself has articles showing increases protein synthesis following a workout, significantly higher than other times of the day.

Insulin makes a difference. Period.

The postexercise "anabolic window" is a highly misused & abused concept. Preworkout nutrition all but cancels the urgency, unless you're an endurance athlete with multiple glycogen-depleting events in a single day. Getting down to brass tacks, a relatively recent study (Power et al. 2009) showed that a 45g dose of whey protein isolate takes appx 50 minutes to cause blood AA levels to peak. Resulting insulin levels, which peaked at 40 minutes after ingestion, remained at elevations known to max out the inhibition of muscle protein breakdown (15-30 mU/L) for 120 minutes after ingestion. This dose takes 3 hours for insulin & AA levels to return to baseline from the point of ingestion. The inclusion of carbs to this dose would cause AA & insulin levels to peak higher & stay elevated above baseline even longer.

So much for the anabolic peephole & the urgency to down AAs during your weight training workout; they are already seeping into circulation (& will continue to do so after your training bout is done). Even in the event that a preworkout meal is skipped, the anabolic effect of the postworkout meal is increased as a supercompensatory response (Deldicque et al, 2010). Moving on, another recent study (Staples et al, 2010) found that a substantial dose of carbohydrate (50g maltodextrin) added to 25g whey protein was unable to further increase postexercise net muscle protein balance compared to the protein dose without carbs. Again, this is not to say that adding carbs at this point is counterproductive, but it certainly doesn't support the idea that you must get your lightning-fast postexercise carb orgy for optimal results.

To add to this... Why has the majority of longer-term research failed to show any meaningful differences in nutrient timing relative to the resistance training bout? It's likely because the body is smarter than we give it credit for. Most people don't know that as a result of a single training bout, the receptivity of muscle to protein dosing can persist for at least 24 hours: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21289204

If you train fasted, it's probably a good idea to eat after your workout, but if you don't get some food in within an hour it doesn't mean your session was wasted.

If you eat before you workout, you're probably fine.

psuLemon

Good thread. Just to add in some more information, below are a few good studies on post workout drinks. But like others suggest, there is no concrete reason to have a post workout shake unless you are an endurance athlete where you deplete your glycogen...


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1601794

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12580650


A good write up on chocolate milk as a recovery drink... just thought it was interesting

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21904247