RANT: Careless Weightloss Goals!
Replies
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Yeah, I feel real stupid. I made a deal with a friend that if we got to 135 pounds on the scale we would go for a girls weekend retreat. We weigh the same right now, but both are very different. I have lost over 60 pounds and have built a lot of muscle. She on the other hand is a lot of flab and is probably at her max weight. She will probably drop, just watching what she eats. For one, she hasn't already lost any weight, two, she is not building any muscle, etc.... Plus she is like 3 inches short than me.
I am gonna work really hard to achieve this goal. Knowing everything I know, doing what I know works.
Stupid for me to put myself under that presure. I would much rather my body look good, than see a number on a scale.
But we will see who wins in the end, me with my fantastic hard body or her, doing hers her way.
Wow, you are a really sweet "friend."0 -
I'm going to take a few minutes and rant a little. It's that time of year again where people are looking to better themselves and set goals for weight loss. I've seen the posts all over the place with challenges folks have set for themselves or competitions with others. While all these are great, the focus doesn't need to be just on weight. If you are doing these types of things and the only marker for success is what the scale reads, you're doing it wrong! If you are eating below BMR on daily basis, you're doing it wrong! If you don't know what BMR means, you're doing it wrong! If you don't know what your BMR or TDEE is, you're doing it wrong! If you haven't taken measurements, you're doing it wrong! If you haven't calculated your body fat percentage, YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG!!!
Posts like this just make newbies (like me) feel further deflated, like we've no clue what we're doing and people like you are somehow better than us or above us.
You're doing it wrong, you're doing it wrong...yeah well, we're trying and joining a site like this is a big step. We're learning. We'll get there. We can't know all the 'right' things to do automatically, if we came here with all the knowledge we probably wouldn't be overweight in the first place. I understand you want to offer advice to others but posts like this are just annoying.
I hadn't even heard of things like TDEE before I joined this site and I'm slowly working it all out, whilst trying to make some major changes in my life which isn't easy. I'm asking others on here for advice when it's needed.
I'm very sorry that us newbies are p*ssing you off because we're not as awesome as you are just yet but please just give us some time and the ones who are truely motivated and in it for the long haul will learn all the 'proper' things to do with time, we don't need your patronising posts screaming how crap we all are.
You have to understand where the frustration comes from...it's not with newbies in general...it's newbies that ask for advice...they are given sound and solid advice from people who have learned all of this stuff...and just simply ignore it while they wait for a post that just happens to agree with their flawed "science."
When I first started here, I didn't know anything either...I didn't know BMR or TDEE....but you damn well better believe that it only took a couple of veteran MFPers telling me to find out to get me to do so. When I first started out, as a foodie, I thought my love of food would be forever over...that all I would have to look forward to in life were sticks of celery and carrots...then I started listening to a bunch of MFPers and looking at my macros as well as my calories and making better decisions, while at the same time realizing that I can eat actual food and still lose weight.
The frustrations comes from telling someone they are starving themselves netting 700 calories per day and they just shrug their shoulders and move on as if they know. They obviously don't know because they have no understanding that 1,200 calories includes a huge deficit from their TDEE already and is in many cases well below their BMR...they are starving themselves and they do not listen. Some of us actually do care about the well being of fellow members, whether noobs or not and are concerned for their health and safety...and it's very frustrating when they don't listen.0 -
I tell people fat loss is an important intervention in one's life which should be taken thoughtfully. If I were to equate it to another life event, in terms of seriousness, the next closest would be purchasing a home. You don't just hand over someone money upon driving by the house or ask the value of the neighbor's house - you get it appraised and try to find out literally everything you can about the home first.
It would benefit people tremendously if they were to take the time to educate themselves about things such as RMR, TDEE, the Energy Balance Equation, nutrition, and how calorie restriction affects the endocrine system prior to making any significant changes to their lifestyle. Without any knowledge, baseline data, or sufficient and varying means to assess progress, people are greatly reducing their changes at successful fat loss and ability to keep it off.
The best advice my father ever gave me (which I honestly did not adhere to enough) was, "If you're going to do something, go about it the right way so you don't have to do it again."0 -
I agree with the sentiment, but not all of the details. It is in the details that you are putting off people who don't already think like you.
For example, I really don't need to know my body fat percentage right now - I have a beach ball on my waist, celulite on my *kitten* and kids think my arms are nice and soft to lean against. I suspect it is lower than my BMI, because I am smaller than the only other time in my life I was at this weight and stronger than I was this time last year, even at a lower weight. Perhaps having an actual number would give me a means of setting goals for smaller numbers, but for now, not having a beach ball attached to me is good enough (I should totally add that to my list!)
Also, I have calculated my BMR and my TDEE. If I eat back my calories, my MFP numbers are pretty much the same, within 100 calories. I can deal with that margin of error (<10%), as I know that food labels can be off by 20% and I don't even use a HRM, so my burn calculations are wild guesses. Others have come to the same conclusion, many have lost weight just by following the MFP program, without even doing the calculations.0 -
You absolutely CAN lose weight without counting calories, without working out, and without knowing a thing about TDEE or BMR. I've done it! At least 5 times! And I gained it back every time.
I'm so grateful for everything I learned that brought me to MFP in the first place and everything I've learned/still learning since I arrived. Otherwise, I'd have gone with the old standard 1200 cal target I've heard all my life for women when it turns out I can eat 1600-1800 a day plus exercise calories and lose steadily without feeling sick with hunger.0 -
Crap. I think I'm doing it wrong. What's TDEE/BMR?
In case you weren't being sarcastic. Check this link for answers
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/654536-in-place-of-a-road-map-2-0-revised-7-2-12
If you were being sarcastic.....cool, I like sarcastic. Just ignore the link.
Thanks! It was actually one of those... oh haha this is sarcastic- but no, really, please tell me type-of-things... LOL the info is appreciated!0 -
I'm going to take a few minutes and rant a little. It's that time of year again where people are looking to better themselves and set goals for weight loss. I've seen the posts all over the place with challenges folks have set for themselves or competitions with others. While all these are great, the focus doesn't need to be just on weight. If you are doing these types of things and the only marker for success is what the scale reads, you're doing it wrong! If you are eating below BMR on daily basis, you're doing it wrong! If you don't know what BMR means, you're doing it wrong! If you don't know what your BMR or TDEE is, you're doing it wrong! If you haven't taken measurements, you're doing it wrong! If you haven't calculated your body fat percentage, YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG!!!
Posts like this just make newbies (like me) feel further deflated, like we've no clue what we're doing and people like you are somehow better than us or above us.
You're doing it wrong, you're doing it wrong...yeah well, we're trying and joining a site like this is a big step. We're learning. We'll get there. We can't know all the 'right' things to do automatically, if we came here with all the knowledge we probably wouldn't be overweight in the first place. I understand you want to offer advice to others but posts like this are just annoying.
I hadn't even heard of things like TDEE before I joined this site and I'm slowly working it all out, whilst trying to make some major changes in my life which isn't easy. I'm asking others on here for advice when it's needed.
I'm very sorry that us newbies are p*ssing you off because we're not as awesome as you are just yet but please just give us some time and the ones who are truely motivated and in it for the long haul will learn all the 'proper' things to do with time, we don't need your patronising posts screaming how crap we all are.
You have to understand where the frustration comes from...it's not with newbies in general...it's newbies that ask for advice...they are given sound and solid advice from people who have learned all of this stuff...and just simply ignore it while they wait for a post that just happens to agree with their flawed "science."
When I first started here, I didn't know anything either...I didn't know BMR or TDEE....but you damn well better believe that it only took a couple of veteran MFPers telling me to find out to get me to do so. When I first started out, as a foodie, I thought my love of food would be forever over...that all I would have to look forward to in life were sticks of celery and carrots...then I started listening to a bunch of MFPers and looking at my macros as well as my calories and making better decisions, while at the same time realizing that I can eat actual food and still lose weight.
The frustrations comes from telling someone they are starving themselves netting 700 calories per day and they just shrug their shoulders and move on as if they know. They obviously don't know because they have no understanding that 1,200 calories includes a huge deficit from their TDEE already and is in many cases well below their BMR...they are starving themselves and they do not listen. Some of us actually do care about the well being of fellow members, whether noobs or not and are concerned for their health and safety...and it's very frustrating when they don't listen.
I do understand where the frustration comes from, I've seen the 'Im not losing weight fast enough' posts myself, but I just didn't like the OP's wording as it came across as patronising.
Anyway, I've hunted in 2 pharmacies today for a tape measure and no where seems to stock them. Weird huh? Considering it's 'weight loss season'. I need to find one so I can take my measurements and see where I'm really at.
AND while I'm here I have a genuine question...I'm set at 1220 calories a day. MFP chose this for me. But my problem is, I'm not hungry enough to eat all the calories I need, even though it's very low.
Last night I had some snacks just to get me there even though I could have happily gone without them.
So if I work out that I need to eat more calories, how will this work for me?
Is it what I'm eating? I'll open my diary now so you can all have a nosey...I want to get this sorted out now so I don't develop bad habits.
And by the way - I've already put my dinner in for today although it hasn't been eaten yet. And I'm not hungry for it, so I'll just be eating for the sake of it which surely can't be right?? I'm confused!0 -
Not that I disagree with you, but I think a person can recognize that they need to take off some weight and start counting calories without knowing BMR, TDEE, body fat percentage, etc. I've calculated mine, but the numbers don't mean much to me. They are estimates/averages and may or may not apply to me personally.0
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well Im SICK of folks saying you MUST count BMR & TDEE ( the newest & latest macros for self-imposed gurus to insist everyone follow or else fail)
Im sick of people like the OP overcomplicating weightloss... eat a well balanced diet, take in less than you put out & exercise that includes stregnth training...you will lose weight and/or inches... SIMPLE... to hell with TDEE, BMR, counting points, calories, etc... I dont need to know or to count my body fat percentages...
if keeping a ledger and making a grad school project out of your daily meals works for you, so be it, but dont act like its the ONLY way for folks to shed pounds....
Query: How does one know they are taking in less than they are putting out without calculating calories and TDEE/BMR?
Love this!!0 -
"Query: How does one know they are taking in less than they are putting out without calculating calories and TDEE/BMR? "
It's really easy: you lose weight.
Oh, and you are not starving all of the time if you are eating lots of vegetables, protein, fruit and other such healthy whole foods.
Just because you have been eating so low that you don't get hungry anymore, doesn't mean that you aren't starving your body.
So true, eating too little for too long, messes up with your bodies natural hunger and saiety cues.0 -
Lastly, don't be in such a hurry to hit some goal. You want this transformation to last. Take is slow and learn how to eat, what workouts you enjoy and what eating pattern fits your schedule.
People don't realize that getting the body you want can take years.
TRUE, TRUE, TRUE!!!
Thanks to products like Slimfast, books like The 17-Day Diet and shows like The Biggest Loser, the general population is convinced that "slow and steady wins the race" doesn't apply to them.
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well Im SICK of folks saying you MUST count BMR & TDEE ( the newest & latest macros for self-imposed gurus to insist everyone follow or else fail)
Im sick of people like the OP overcomplicating weightloss... eat a well balanced diet, take in less than you put out & exercise that includes stregnth training...you will lose weight and/or inches... SIMPLE... to hell with TDEE, BMR, counting points, calories, etc... I dont need to know or to count my body fat percentages...
if keeping a ledger and making a grad school project out of your daily meals works for you, so be it, but dont act like its the ONLY way for folks to shed pounds....
Query: How does one know they are taking in less than they are putting out without calculating calories and TDEE/BMR?
Love this!!
Im sure if yu sat on your *kitten* all day eating bon-bons and Pepsi in between McDOnalds and Burger King meals, you'd easily figure out that you took in more than you put out.....again, easy peasy0 -
Isn't that what the "guided goals" are for on MFP?
Give people a guide, set the goals for them, and let them get on with counting calories and earning some back via exercise?
I've just spent an hour looking at changing my goals as I think they are now too low for my changing goals. I read through TDEE/BMR etc etc. Did all of the calculations. Then went to the MFP guided goals and guess what...the MFP goal came out within 80 calories of the TDEE -20% calculation.
It doesn't have to be complicated. MFP does it for you. I don't think that MFP has got it wrong, its worked for many, many people on the site, me included. Set your loss at 1lb per week, choose an activity level that best describes you, and take it from there.
Not saying that TDEE/BMR/BF% etc is wrong, but hasn't MFP done the hard work for most people?
So those reading this wondering "what the hell??" don't rush off to change things. If the MFP goals are working for you then keep up the good work.0 -
Lastly, don't be in such a hurry to hit some goal. You want this transformation to last. Take is slow and learn how to eat, what workouts you enjoy and what eating pattern fits your schedule.
People don't realize that getting the body you want can take years.
THIS! I used to diet all the time: low fat, low carb etc. Whatever the latest hit was. After a few months, I always wanted that piece of chocolate or glass of wine... or whatever. But they were a big no no according to the diet plan I currently was on. So, I usually would give into that craving and since "I'm not on a diet today (and day after that and after that too!)", I could eat some more "forbidden" stuff... and here comes the yo-yo. lol
Most people want quick fix - starve for few weeks or months, hit that number on the scale and move on. Unfortunately it does not work that way.0 -
This is the problem with most women, not all, but most. We dont care about anything as long as we are "skinny". You want to be skinny but you can't even run a mile straight, or skinny and cant even lift a 10lb weight. A baby weighs more than 10lbs, how will you carry or nurse your baby. How will you carry groceries up stairs with out making a million trips to the car and back, all because you want to be skinny.Skinny Fat-
To look slim, even with revealing clothes, but when touched, the touching hand sinks into fat before reaching muscle. Older people will 'show' "Skinny fat" visually, but young people have firm skin that hides it until they're touched.
A person who is not overweight and have skinny look but still have a high fat percentage and low muscular mass. Usually those people have a low caloric diet, that's why they are skinny, but are not involved in any sports activities or trainings and that's why they don’t have any muscle. Since between the bone and the skin those people only have fat, the skin can be deformed easily because the skin layer is located on an unstable matter (fat).
Skinny fat woman look sexy from a certain distance but they have soft jelly skin and still have some cellulite even if they are in there early 20s.
Sorry, I'll take "skinny anything" over being fat.
Women make me sick!0 -
I've only been using MFP for a short time and lost most of my weight before joining. I did track my calories to lose weight, but didn't really calculate my TDEE or anything like that. I ate a very low calorie diet for months (with occasional splurges) and lost between 25-30 pounds. I've recently begun eating close to TDEE for maintenance (even went slightly over a few times) and, strangely enough, have noticed slight weight loss. It's not all a perfect science, but do whatever works for you. If the scale numbers are edging downward, you're doing something right.0
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Anyway, I've hunted in 2 pharmacies today for a tape measure and no where seems to stock them. Weird huh? Considering it's 'weight loss season'. I need to find one so I can take my measurements and see where I'm really at.
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Only going to respond to one piece I for sure know something about
You can always find tape measures in stores that sell sewing supplies, such as JoAnn Fabrics. 0 -
Awesome post OP!! Thank you! :flowerforyou: :flowerforyou: :flowerforyou: :flowerforyou:0
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haha this is great0 -
MFP does indeed guide people well for the most part. However, the major criticism I have with MFP is that when people select their weekly weight loss goal, MFP does not provide any information to guide the person on which goal would be right for them according to how much fat mass they have vs how much they wish to lose - they nearly always choose 2 lbs because they want the weight off as fast as possible. Human thermogenics simply doesn't work that way which results in people creating threads stating they feel starved, fatigued, cranky, etc with the inevitable quick stalls.Not saying that TDEE/BMR/BF% etc is wrong, but hasn't MFP done the hard work for most people?
I do not expect people to learn everything; but I do recommend at least understanding some of the basics first so their chances at reaching their goals are far greater.0 -
Woot! Woot!
It is simple! DO NOT GET ON THE SCALE! Judge by your measurements!!!0 -
Anyway, I've hunted in 2 pharmacies today for a tape measure and no where seems to stock them. Weird huh? Considering it's 'weight loss season'. I need to find one so I can take my measurements and see where I'm really at.
[/quote]
Only going to respond to one piece I for sure know something about You can always find tape measures in stores that sell sewing supplies, such as JoAnn Fabrics.
[/quote]
Thanks, I totally never thought of this - there's one close to me so I'll get one at the weekend 0 -
I'm going to take a few minutes and rant a little. It's that time of year again where people are looking to better themselves and set goals for weight loss. I've seen the posts all over the place with challenges folks have set for themselves or competitions with others. While all these are great, the focus doesn't need to be just on weight. If you are doing these types of things and the only marker for success is what the scale reads, you're doing it wrong! If you are eating below BMR on daily basis, you're doing it wrong! If you don't know what BMR means, you're doing it wrong! If you don't know what your BMR or TDEE is, you're doing it wrong! If you haven't taken measurements, you're doing it wrong! If you haven't calculated your body fat percentage, YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG!!!
This is what people tend to miss when trying to lose weight. If you are eating a very low calorie diet, you will lose weight, not only from fat, but from lean body mass, as well. The scale doesn't tell you which one the weight loss is coming from. This is why gauging your success by body fat percentage is a better way to go.
Calculate your BMR! Calculate your TDEE! Take 20% from TDEE and eat at that level! Lift weights and eat sufficient protein. Recommended at least .8 grams/lb of body weight. This will help preserve LBM. If you like cardio better, fine, but still find time to get in a couple strength training sessions per week.
Lastly, don't be in such a hurry to hit some goal. You want this transformation to last. Take is slow and learn how to eat, what workouts you enjoy and what eating pattern fits your schedule.
Thank you for this post! I'm not ashamed to admit that before I joined MFP, I was doing it WRONG! Perhaps that's why I had so many problems and just gave up so many times. Since I joined almost a month ago, I'm eating better, exercising more, have lost 6 pounds, and the measuring tape is a little smaller around my waist and hips now. I've learned a lot and hope no one takes offense to your post!0 -
Ok, take a deep breath, now let it out?
Feel better?0 -
Here's the thing that I always get confused about: am I not to go below the BMR of my current weight or my goal weight? I've actually read conflicting information. For me, I do concentrate on the weight because I'm preparing to do an amateur MMA fight and I'm trying to get close to the weight class I want to fight in.0
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Anyway, I've hunted in 2 pharmacies today for a tape measure and no where seems to stock them. Weird huh? Considering it's 'weight loss season'. I need to find one so I can take my measurements and see where I'm really at.
Only going to respond to one piece I for sure know something about You can always find tape measures in stores that sell sewing supplies, such as JoAnn Fabrics.
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Thanks, I totally never thought of this - there's one close to me so I'll get one at the weekend
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You can get good soft cloth tape measures where they sell sewing supplies.0 -
You absolutely CAN lose weight without counting calories, without working out, and without knowing a thing about TDEE or BMR. I've done it! At least 5 times! And I gained it back every time.
I'm so grateful for everything I learned that brought me to MFP in the first place and everything I've learned/still learning since I arrived. Otherwise, I'd have gone with the old standard 1200 cal target I've heard all my life for women when it turns out I can eat 1600-1800 a day plus exercise calories and lose steadily without feeling sick with hunger.
DITTO!!!0 -
well Im SICK of folks saying you MUST count BMR & TDEE ( the newest & latest macros for self-imposed gurus to insist everyone follow or else fail)
Im sick of people like the OP overcomplicating weightloss... eat a well balanced diet, take in less than you put out & exercise that includes stregnth training...you will lose weight and/or inches... SIMPLE... to hell with TDEE, BMR, counting points, calories, etc... I dont need to know or to count my body fat percentages...
Um... "take in less than you put out" IS BMR/TDEE. How can you do that without knowing exactly how much you are "putting out"?
Edit: I guess this has already been pointed out by a bunch of people
silly me! 0 -
I can understand your frustration to a point and why your wrote this post. However I think we all know there is more then one way to lose weight. With it being January there are a lot of newbies on the boards and this post is likely to just confuse some. Are BMR, TDEE, and BF% measurements useful tools? Yes. If you don't use them are you doing it wrong. No. To say otherwise is wrong. I have lost weight before in the past with much success and not used these tools. I gained the weight back because of cancer (in which I gained weight) and then a pregnancy that followed directly after. I am a mess! I am currently working on losing the weight with the help of two doctors and neither has mentioned anything other then how many calories I should be consuming in a day and how much exercise they'd like me to be getting. Over complicating things for people isn't going to help.
ETA: Calories isn't all they advised they also suggested what types of foods such as lots of fruits and veggies, leans meats, common sense stuff like that. Basically the stuff we ALL know we should be eating but don't! haha!0 -
I do understand where the frustration comes from, I've seen the 'Im not losing weight fast enough' posts myself, but I just didn't like the OP's wording as it came across as patronising.
Anyway, I've hunted in 2 pharmacies today for a tape measure and no where seems to stock them. Weird huh? Considering it's 'weight loss season'. I need to find one so I can take my measurements and see where I'm really at.
AND while I'm here I have a genuine question...I'm set at 1220 calories a day. MFP chose this for me. But my problem is, I'm not hungry enough to eat all the calories I need, even though it's very low.
Last night I had some snacks just to get me there even though I could have happily gone without them.
So if I work out that I need to eat more calories, how will this work for me?
Is it what I'm eating? I'll open my diary now so you can all have a nosey...I want to get this sorted out now so I don't develop bad habits.
And by the way - I've already put my dinner in for today although it hasn't been eaten yet. And I'm not hungry for it, so I'll just be eating for the sake of it which surely can't be right?? I'm confused!
Okay, I think someone has already said this, but fabric stores sell soft tape measures that are perfect for what you want. You'll want to take weekly measurements of your chest, each arm, thighs, calves, waist, and butt.
There's a lot of annoyance on this site for people who "can't" eat 1200 calories because they aren't hungry enough. But I used to have the same problem, until I realized a couple of things. First, I was used to "dieting"--following a restricted eating plan that gave me psychological satisfaction that I was doing something without giving me physical satisfaction because I wouldn't have said I wanted to continue eating only that way forever. Secondly, and this involved educating yourself, there is a hormone in your body called Leptin, which regulates your hunger. Leptin production can be suppressed by restricting your calories too much (under your BMR). Practically speaking, this means that if you eat more, you will begin to feel more hungry. If you eat less, you will begin to feel less hungry. This explains how those suffering from anorexia can eat under 800 calories a day and say they don't feel hungry.
A lot of people say that if you eat when you aren't hungry, you're just eating from boredom, which isn't strictly true. Figure out the math and work your way up to that amount of calories. You may gain a couple of pounds initially, but then your loss will be steady and more sustainable as your body gets the nutrition it needs to function properly.
As for BMR/TDEE, if you have not calculated those numbers, use this website and set your activity level to lightly active when you do the calculation: http://scoobysworkshop.com/accurate-calorie-calculator/
Because you have less than 10 lbs to go, your weight loss will be slower than someone with 60 lbs to lose. You probably have you loss set for about 2 lbs per week, because that's what everyone does at first, assuming that faster loss is better, but in reality with only 10 lbs to lose, you should only be trying to lose 0.5 lbs per week. Your body won't respond well to attempting to force it to lose quickly because it knows it doesn't have that much fat to shed, and if you lose more than that, you are also losing lean body mass, which is what makes you look "toned" once you lose the weight. You want to preserve LBM as much as possible so that you aren't flabby when you lose the weight. So figure out your TDEE and subtract about 15% from that to find your calorie goal.
So I checked out your diary and all that to say: EAT MORE. Getting the calories is easy if you are eating more full-fat products. You also should increase your protein intake to make sure you aren't retaining a lot of water from all the carbs you've been eating. You had a great day for protein on Sunday. If you go to the "goals" tab under "my home" here, you can choose "custom" goals and put in your own calorie goal and your own goal percentages for carbs, fat, and protein, which you will get from calculating your BMR and TDEE.
Hope that helps!0
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