1200, and why it won't work

iSmile911

This was an awesome post. It felt like you were standing in my kitchen formulating my plan of action. Thank you for the insight. :happy:

lovelylela415

Like the others, I read the whole thing.

Thank you so much for posting this.

I recently started weight training and while i always intellectually understood progression, it's different now that I am physically experiencing it.

New here - and loving it so far. Thanks again!

anybeary

Great post. I, like Monica, have a big fear where eating that many calories is concerned. I lost 40 lbs in the last couple of years eating 1300-1400. Now I'm exercising much more and much harder because I've completely plateued. I've slowly been raising my caloric intake over the past 6 weeks, and I'm now eating 1500-1600...still not losing weight, but not gaining it either. BUT, I just calculated my TDEE and BMR, and now I'm rethinking that...

My BMR is a little over 1400, and my TDEE is a little over 2200. I'm thinking of kicking myself up to 1750 or so based on that information. Thoughts? Advice?

FYI, I'm 5ft 6in. At 155 lbs. now. Age 34.

karlalband

If any of you have questions on initial setpoints (where you should start), it's really a matter of where you are starting from. Obviously a girl trying to fit into her spring break bikini and wants to lose 5 pounds is different than a mother who wants to shed her pregnancy weight, or an older woman who is getting back into the rhythm of fitness.

There is no way I can establish setpoints without knowing some semi personal things about you. That requires a leap of faith.

I am 53. 5'8". And I will never be on the cover of Cosmo wearing a bikini at this time in my age. But I need help and have faith that I will someday have a healthy life. Again I see so many people very happy about your topic. Thank You

Lleldiranne

OP: Thank you! :flowerforyou:

One question, if you don't mind -- I'm very near my goal (less than 15 pounds away!) and didn't really have a lot to lose to start. I'm working on building muscle, too, and so I'm trying to eat 1600 calories and ~100 g of protein and lift about 3 times a week (plus some cardio as I'm a wanna be runner) … is this enough calories? I'm 5' tall and want to get to about 115.
Thanks

nataliescalories

I'm sure the original poster posted this with good intention, but it is medical advice and people should be seeing actual nutritionists and doctors. I don't understand why, when people post other medical questions in MFP, members are quick to urge them to get to a doctor. However, when calculating your daily nutritional needs, people are gobbling up the info of someone who, "obtained [a] NASM personal training certification, which was a breeze." What? That's as dull as merely following MFP's recommendations without question. This fellow took a thirty minute exam after a few months of studying. Most medical doctors only have mere hours of nutritional training and that's still significant compared to what he has. The mythical "Monica" could have had a thyroid disorder or, like I have, PCOS. These things alter your metabolisms so significantly that you need someone truly skilled in helping you find the right balance. You might even, as I have had to do, have to see internists as well.

If you're obese and looking for answers here, please stop. No, don't start at 1200. Don't start at 3000. Don't start without tests for diabetes, PCOS, Insulin Resistance, etc. "Monica" was rather lucky in this scenario, but it's hardly a case study; if you are obese or morbidly obese, there is a chance underlying conditions are helping you stay that way. You're going to feel better having medical clearance anyway when you want to begin exercise. For example, he had a six week period of Monica not loosing. Eventually she did again. We don't know how her diet's composition change. Did she alter carbs/fats/etc? Did she begin drinking more water? Taking supplements? How many people think 1200 isn't working and push on for six weeks without result? Not many. Yes, Monica seems to have had a decent amount of will power and a load of blind faith, but she could have very well had the same stall and restart at 1200, 1400, 1600, or 2000 calories. There are just too many factors to consider. She could have had more plateaus than he could have accounted for; what then?

1brokegal44

Isn't this what's called "calorie shifting" or the "zig zag diet"? You constantly vary your calorie intake thereby forcing your metabolism to adjust?

aelunyu

Great info! I do think a lot of people should read this so they can understand the progression which I think makes people feel defeated after a while.
I haven't eaten my allotted 1420 and then 1330 calories since I started MFP and I don't feel starving. My husband has an allotment of 200 cals more than me daily and is ready to faint most days from hunger so I guess it also has a lot to do with how you "used" to eat as well. I had triplets 6 yrs ago and was supposed to eat 4200 cals a day and I wanted to die, I couldn't make it past 2000 of "healthy food". I can eat 6000 cals a day in junk food though.

Haha...so impressed with this comment. I am currently having trouble eating 3200 in "semi-clean" foods. I find out that the last 100 grams of carbs I really have to force down.

aelunyu

Isn't this what's called "calorie shifting" or the "zig zag diet"? You constantly vary your calorie intake thereby forcing your metabolism to adjust?

partially, yes. as a general rule, the more you lose the more you have to cut. The way to avoid that, of course is to up intensity in exercise to counteract the effects of a slowing metabolism. Monica did that perfectly.

moonsforeyes

AWESOME post! I struggled so hard trying to only eat 1200 calories in the beginning of my journey! I hope others will read this and realize that they really don't have to and don't struggle as much as i did! it was so hard!

jmhunter84

I am so glad you posted this, it really made me evaluate my daily calorie target. I thought 1200 was good enough, but it has not been enough for me. No wonder I have been feeling so bad, and irritable. I been doing workouts which burn 600-1000 calories and not enough food. This was an eye opener for me which makes sense why my weight has not shifted.

DaniAni19

Thank you so much for addressing this! 1200 calories a day, when you have 75 pounds to lose would be so hard to follow. I log my foods on mfp to get a "ballpark" of what I am eating a day but I am not calorie obsessed. I have been focusing rather on eating real food and keeping my diet very clean instead. I have been consistently losing weight without being stressed over exactly how many calories I eat.

Hauntedhollywood

FANTASTIC POST ! I am glad that I read this:)
I struggle somedays with 1200 calories & other days I am fine.
Thank you

fmebear

Interesting post. Thanks for sharing. I can't help but think this is geared way more toward men. Especially the heavy lifters. When I've been thin with good physique and muscle definition, I ate 1200 calories a day. Any more than that and I'd gain. Maybe it has something to do with hypothyroid although I take medication.

Right there too!!! I am 5' 2", 149 lbs and hypothyroid. I have found though that if my medication is off EVEN slightly I will gain the weight. It has to be spot on for me to lose the weight. I am changing my medication (Synthroid & Cytomel) because of how I feel. My symptoms have returned with a vengeance (hair loss first, now moodiness and tired). Once that is set and stable, weight loss and energy is great. Are you seeing an endocrinologist for your hypothyroid? I find they are much better than the family doctor. What medication are you on? Do you still have symptoms? If you do, your medication needs to be adjusted. I have asked my endocrinologist to switch me to a natural medication - Nature Throid. Just a thought on the weight loss!

scamp76

I am so glad that you took the time to write this and that I read it! Thank you!! It is really frustrating when you think that you are doing the right thing to lose weight and nothing happens! I'm going to make a few adjustments and see what happens.

janicewilliams73

Thanks for a great post. I've been on 1200 for the past year and haven't lost anything (I only have 10 pounds to go) and was constantly lethargic. I stopped exercising 3 months ago due to schedule and tiredness - yes I know I could probably squeeze something in somewhere... I actually increased my intake to 1500 last week and have already lost 2 pounds. Will get back on the exercise wagon as soon as I get my mojo back and will now stay at 1500 for the foreseeable future. And it just feels better to be eating more ;-)

mhotch

Bump

Siege_Tank

I'm sure the original poster posted this with good intention, but it is medical advice and people should be seeing actual nutritionists and doctors. I don't understand why, when people post other medical questions in MFP, members are quick to urge them to get to a doctor.

Funny how it only goes one way, isn't it?

If you're obese and looking for answers here, please stop. No, don't start at 1200. Don't start at 3000. Don't start without tests for diabetes, PCOS, Insulin Resistance, etc. "Monica" was rather lucky in this scenario, but it's hardly a case study;

What? Reason, logic, and critical thinking? HOW DARE YOU! YOU SHOULD BE EATING AT LEAST 2000!!!!!

I applaud your entire post. Using internet calculators and mental suppositions and excuses to eat more than a decent calorie cut is NOT what obese people should do. Cutting calories at ANY level for an obese or morbidly obese person is healthier than ANY form of doing nothing.

But, look how the masses all praise and clap. I'd LOVE to see actual studies on groups of people and their weight loss progression at certain calorie levels, especially the calorie levels that members of certain groups advocate....

Lord know's they'll never post those studies.

rlv2680

bump

aelunyu

I'm sure the original poster posted this with good intention, but it is medical advice and people should be seeing actual nutritionists and doctors. I don't understand why, when people post other medical questions in MFP, members are quick to urge them to get to a doctor. However, when calculating your daily nutritional needs, people are gobbling up the info of someone who, "obtained [a] NASM personal training certification, which was a breeze." What? That's as dull as merely following MFP's recommendations without question. This fellow took a thirty minute exam after a few months of studying. Most medical doctors only have mere hours of nutritional training and that's still significant compared to what he has. The mythical "Monica" could have had a thyroid disorder or, like I have, PCOS. These things alter your metabolisms so significantly that you need someone truly skilled in helping you find the right balance. You might even, as I have had to do, have to see internists as well.

If you're obese and looking for answers here, please stop. No, don't start at 1200. Don't start at 3000. Don't start without tests for diabetes, PCOS, Insulin Resistance, etc. "Monica" was rather lucky in this scenario, but it's hardly a case study; if you are obese or morbidly obese, there is a chance underlying conditions are helping you stay that way. You're going to feel better having medical clearance anyway when you want to begin exercise. For example, he had a six week period of Monica not loosing. Eventually she did again. We don't know how her diet's composition change. Did she alter carbs/fats/etc? Did she begin drinking more water? Taking supplements? How many people think 1200 isn't working and push on for six weeks without result? Not many. Yes, Monica seems to have had a decent amount of will power and a load of blind faith, but she could have very well had the same stall and restart at 1200, 1400, 1600, or 2000 calories. There are just too many factors to consider. She could have had more plateaus than he could have accounted for; what then?

Two things I find wrong about this kind of hostility:

1. I am a bio major. went through 2 years of med school, took all the orgo, chem, biochem, and associated classes, before deciding that 8 more years of school would put me into too much debt. for all educational purposes, I'm a doctor.

2. most doctors are contact of last resort. you don't see a doctor while you are gaining weight, you see them when you've gained too much weight that it threatens your health. most doctors will tell you to eat less. they have NO idea about the current studies and literature pertaining to human weight loss, performance nutrition, and optimal disease prevention....that is unless they keep up with peer reviewed studies. If they do...it's in the area of disease correction, instead of prevention. Although all doctors have fundamental knowledge of how to prevent disease, not all of them update their knowledge profiles bi monthly.

3. I exist in some grey space, outside of personal trainers who charge money, and oustide of doctors who know nothing about being "beach-ready". I exist to help. If you have a problem with that, I suggest you take it elsewhere.

holdingon2faith793

bump

monbeaucher

I messaged you Bumping to show my friend later!

If any of you have questions on initial setpoints (where you should start), it's really a matter of where you are starting from. Obviously a girl trying to fit into her spring break bikini and wants to lose 5 pounds is different than a mother who wants to shed her pregnancy weight, or an older woman who is getting back into the rhythm of fitness.

There is no way I can establish setpoints without knowing some semi personal things about you. That requires a leap of faith.

Siege_Tank

Two things I find wrong about this kind of hostility:

All she said was for people to start with seeing a doctor, how is that hostile?

1. I am a bio major. went through 2 years of med school, took all the orgo, chem, biochem, and associated classes, before deciding that 8 more years of school would put me into too much debt. for all educational purposes, I'm a doctor.

most doctors will tell you to eat less. they have NO idea about the current studies and literature pertaining to human weight loss, performance nutrition, and optimal disease prevention...

Then why did you use personal experience and a fun story to lay our your assertions? Where are these peer reviewed studies that show how eating at -15% TDEE is better than a decent calorie cut + exercise?

Oh that's right, the results of those studies don't fit into your perfect little story. I've seen pages of articles published, books, TV shows even (think Mr. Oz) about how wheat is a poison, how carbs are the key to losing weight. Now I'm supposed to take you at your word that you know what you're talking about????? Seriously? Raspberry ketones is all I have to say about that.

3. I exist in some grey space, outside of personal trainers who charge money, and oustide of doctors who know nothing about being "beach-ready". I exist to help. If you have a problem with that, I suggest you take it elsewhere.

Again, I have to ask, what's the hostility and danger of talking to a nutritionist or medical professional and listening to them over what some internet forum user says? After all of the BS that has been published in so many places and passed off by so many people as "truth" you'd understand if you thought that some of us "logic" and "reason" type people didn't just swallow what you served without any CITED evidence.

So I applaud her for telling people to stop looking for Jesus in your post. It's a nice story, but it shouldn't be taken as advice for them. Go have your results published, reviewed, and studied with more than one person and I will retract my statements.

Hezzietiger1

1200 While eating back Calories burned (Hrm) worked well for me... averaged about 1500.

pkdarlin

Bump

Ultragirl2374

Bump

judykat7

Thank you-today was my first day I tried to eat more.

aelunyu

Two things I find wrong about this kind of hostility:

All she said was for people to start with seeing a doctor, how is that hostile?

1. I am a bio major. went through 2 years of med school, took all the orgo, chem, biochem, and associated classes, before deciding that 8 more years of school would put me into too much debt. for all educational purposes, I'm a doctor.

most doctors will tell you to eat less. they have NO idea about the current studies and literature pertaining to human weight loss, performance nutrition, and optimal disease prevention...

Then why did you use personal experience and a fun story to lay our your assertions? Where are these peer reviewed studies that show how eating at -15% TDEE is better than a decent calorie cut + exercise?

Oh that's right, the results of those studies don't fit into your perfect little story. I've seen pages of articles published, books, TV shows even (think Mr. Oz) about how wheat is a poison, how carbs are the key to losing weight. Now I'm supposed to take you at your word that you know what you're talking about????? Seriously? Raspberry ketones is all I have to say about that.

3. I exist in some grey space, outside of personal trainers who charge money, and oustide of doctors who know nothing about being "beach-ready". I exist to help. If you have a problem with that, I suggest you take it elsewhere.

Again, I have to ask, what's the hostility and danger of talking to a nutritionist or medical professional and listening to them over what some internet forum user says? After all of the BS that has been published in so many places and passed off by so many people as "truth" you'd understand if you thought that some of us "logic" and "reason" type people didn't just swallow what you served without any CITED evidence.

So I applaud her for telling people to stop looking for Jesus in your post. It's a nice story, but it shouldn't be taken as advice for them. Go have your results published, reviewed, and studied with more than one person and I will retract my statements.

There is no danger there. You're right.

But if you really want to get into the studies, we can have a PM battle. That's fine. The reason I posed the assertion the way I did was because it is much easier to digest than an article being bogged down with study. Not to mention most of the studies posted on this site are not peer reviewed, and are industry sponsered for the affirmative.

I don't think i've laid any assertion to any kind of "wheat, or clean or ketones?" if you look at my diary, you will see that I eat plenty of junk food. I actually implore you to look at it. It's a masterpiece of indiscretion.

You do not have to take me at my word on anything. This is my personal story, and Monica is a very real person. Of course she was the 1 out of 10 that actually complied, but she is very real.

Have I not offered logic? 1. that the golden rule of calories in vs calories out is fundamental 2. that setting too low a setpoint is detrimental to weight loss progression and 3. that any endeavor should be taken in moderation?

I do not think these are facets of dishonesty or ill means.

My experience is just as anecdotal as anyone else's. The fact that I have achieved my goals, and taken the time to study how I did it, is evidence on some level that the ideas are sound.

Would you believe that an MD knows more about bodybuilding and aesthetic dieting than me? I say produce him..or her. I will go 12 rounds with any medical professional on GLUT-4, proteins synthase, gluceogenesis, glycogen uptake, nutrient partitioning, and I will leave them in the dust.

Good day, sir!

nataliescalories

I'm sure the original poster posted this with good intention, but it is medical advice and people should be seeing actual nutritionists and doctors. I don't understand why, when people post other medical questions in MFP, members are quick to urge them to get to a doctor. However, when calculating your daily nutritional needs, people are gobbling up the info of someone who, "obtained [a] NASM personal training certification, which was a breeze." What? That's as dull as merely following MFP's recommendations without question. This fellow took a thirty minute exam after a few months of studying. Most medical doctors only have mere hours of nutritional training and that's still significant compared to what he has. The mythical "Monica" could have had a thyroid disorder or, like I have, PCOS. These things alter your metabolisms so significantly that you need someone truly skilled in helping you find the right balance. You might even, as I have had to do, have to see internists as well.

If you're obese and looking for answers here, please stop. No, don't start at 1200. Don't start at 3000. Don't start without tests for diabetes, PCOS, Insulin Resistance, etc. "Monica" was rather lucky in this scenario, but it's hardly a case study; if you are obese or morbidly obese, there is a chance underlying conditions are helping you stay that way. You're going to feel better having medical clearance anyway when you want to begin exercise. For example, he had a six week period of Monica not loosing. Eventually she did again. We don't know how her diet's composition change. Did she alter carbs/fats/etc? Did she begin drinking more water? Taking supplements? How many people think 1200 isn't working and push on for six weeks without result? Not many. Yes, Monica seems to have had a decent amount of will power and a load of blind faith, but she could have very well had the same stall and restart at 1200, 1400, 1600, or 2000 calories. There are just too many factors to consider. She could have had more plateaus than he could have accounted for; what then?

Two things I find wrong about this kind of hostility:

1. I am a bio major. went through 2 years of med school, took all the orgo, chem, biochem, and associated classes, before deciding that 8 more years of school would put me into too much debt. for all educational purposes, I'm a doctor.

2. most doctors are contact of last resort. you don't see a doctor while you are gaining weight, you see them when you've gained too much weight that it threatens your health. most doctors will tell you to eat less. they have NO idea about the current studies and literature pertaining to human weight loss, performance nutrition, and optimal disease prevention....that is unless they keep up with peer reviewed studies. If they do...it's in the area of disease correction, instead of prevention. Although all doctors have fundamental knowledge of how to prevent disease, not all of them update their knowledge profiles bi monthly.

3. I exist in some grey space, outside of personal trainers who charge money, and oustide of doctors who know nothing about being "beach-ready". I exist to help. If you have a problem with that, I suggest you take it elsewhere.

Actually, as you pointed out, you are eight years of school away from being a doctor. A lot of stuff happens in eight years of education; I've learned that working on my own doctorate.

Doctor's don't and shouldn't have to be a last resort. I don't even get where you're saying that people don't see doctors while they are gaining weight. If people aren't getting regular physicals there are a lot of health problems they could be overlooking aside from obesity. Encouraging them to use you as a substitute isn't helping anyone. I'm also not sure your critical thinking skills are up to par. I clearly already outlined that people should see specialists in nutrition and internal medicine. I said myself that most doctors undergo only hours of nutritional training--but still they are more licensed and trained than you. That's a fact. Certainly a nutritionist would put you to shame.

And finally, you did not seriously just champion yourself for your knowledge of "beach ready" bodies? Yeah, I don't think a lot of doctors are marketing that...you know...because a beach ready body isn't the main indicator of health.

If you can't see the informative nature of my original response, where I even gave you the courtesy of saying you had good intentions, you're really off. This is a forum; it's a place of discussion. You have no need to be threatened. You seriously don't want obese and morbidly obese people to have a reminder to seek medical help, to find out if they have any underlying medical problems before jumping in to a diet? That's just negligence.

aelunyu

I'm sure the original poster posted this with good intention, but it is medical advice and people should be seeing actual nutritionists and doctors. I don't understand why, when people post other medical questions in MFP, members are quick to urge them to get to a doctor. However, when calculating your daily nutritional needs, people are gobbling up the info of someone who, "obtained [a] NASM personal training certification, which was a breeze." What? That's as dull as merely following MFP's recommendations without question. This fellow took a thirty minute exam after a few months of studying. Most medical doctors only have mere hours of nutritional training and that's still significant compared to what he has. The mythical "Monica" could have had a thyroid disorder or, like I have, PCOS. These things alter your metabolisms so significantly that you need someone truly skilled in helping you find the right balance. You might even, as I have had to do, have to see internists as well.

If you're obese and looking for answers here, please stop. No, don't start at 1200. Don't start at 3000. Don't start without tests for diabetes, PCOS, Insulin Resistance, etc. "Monica" was rather lucky in this scenario, but it's hardly a case study; if you are obese or morbidly obese, there is a chance underlying conditions are helping you stay that way. You're going to feel better having medical clearance anyway when you want to begin exercise. For example, he had a six week period of Monica not loosing. Eventually she did again. We don't know how her diet's composition change. Did she alter carbs/fats/etc? Did she begin drinking more water? Taking supplements? How many people think 1200 isn't working and push on for six weeks without result? Not many. Yes, Monica seems to have had a decent amount of will power and a load of blind faith, but she could have very well had the same stall and restart at 1200, 1400, 1600, or 2000 calories. There are just too many factors to consider. She could have had more plateaus than he could have accounted for; what then?

Two things I find wrong about this kind of hostility:

1. I am a bio major. went through 2 years of med school, took all the orgo, chem, biochem, and associated classes, before deciding that 8 more years of school would put me into too much debt. for all educational purposes, I'm a doctor.

2. most doctors are contact of last resort. you don't see a doctor while you are gaining weight, you see them when you've gained too much weight that it threatens your health. most doctors will tell you to eat less. they have NO idea about the current studies and literature pertaining to human weight loss, performance nutrition, and optimal disease prevention....that is unless they keep up with peer reviewed studies. If they do...it's in the area of disease correction, instead of prevention. Although all doctors have fundamental knowledge of how to prevent disease, not all of them update their knowledge profiles bi monthly.

3. I exist in some grey space, outside of personal trainers who charge money, and oustide of doctors who know nothing about being "beach-ready". I exist to help. If you have a problem with that, I suggest you take it elsewhere.

Actually, as you pointed out, you are eight years of school away from being a doctor. A lot of stuff happens in eight years of education; I've learned that working on my own doctorate.

Doctor's don't and shouldn't have to be a last resort. I don't even get where you're saying that people don't see doctors while they are gaining weight. If people aren't getting regular physicals there are a lot of health problems they could be overlooking aside from obesity. Encouraging them to use you as a substitute isn't helping anyone. I'm also not sure your critical thinking skills are up to par. I clearly already outlined that people should see specialists in nutrition and internal medicine. I said myself that most doctors undergo only hours of nutritional training--but still they are more licensed and trained than you. That's a fact. Certainly a nutritionist would put you to shame.

And finally, you did not seriously just champion yourself for your knowledge of "beach ready" bodies? Yeah, I don't think a lot of doctors are marketing that...you know...because a beach ready body isn't the main indicator of health.

If you can't see the informative nature of my original response, where I even gave you the courtesy of saying you had good intentions, you're really off. This is a forum; it's a place of discussion. You have no need to be threatened. You seriously don't want obese and morbidly obese people to have a reminder to seek medical help, to find out if they have any underlying medical problems before jumping in to a diet? That's just negligence.

First of all a "nutritionist" is just a glorified personal trainer. They, at best retain the knowledge of their textbooks, with some or little further following of the continued science in the field. And admittedly that's enough to address 99% of the issues we are facing in this overweight culture.

So, no. A nutritionist will never put me to shame. They can only tell me what substrate metabolism aught to do. They will never be able to cater it to specific cases. They cannot cater profiles according to nutrient partitioning. They will not grant ideas on acetyle-COA pathways given substrate quality. Any undergrad bio major destroys all nutritionists by a mile. Once you cut into the cadavers in M2? Well you get the idea.

The original post was to alert people to the danger of eating 1200 calories a day. You recommend to consult a doctor based on my more MODEST, and SAFE recommendation of finding a better baseline? Absurd. Most doctors will tell you that eating 1200 calories a day is insane.

So...was it just a ploy to undermine my understanding of the subject, or did I really strike a personal chord? If so, I apologize, and let that be that.