Texas hospital bans obese workers?
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You know, if that's what they want, they should serve healthy food in their hospital cafeteria, give nurses longer than 30 minutes for lunch, put in a small workout room with exercise machines, and have a lower patient-to-nurse ratio to cut back on stress for their workers. This is particularly important for people who work grave or swing, and even more important if they rotate shifts.
If they don't want obese workers, then they really need to take responsibility for some of the problems they are actively promoting. You can't expect healthy workers if you don't provide a healthy atmosphere.
This! Quite honestly, I've never worked for a hospital that offered a gym, adequate break time, or even a fair sick-leave policy. It's only been in the past year that they've started having healthy food options every day for staff and visitors. It's just kind of crazy to think that they expect their nurses to be role models of good health, and then make it difficult for them to do so.
That being said, I do work with a few nurses who are morbidly obese...and they certainly don't hustle in getting their work done, and try to find ANY excuse to get out of doing a task that requires them to get up and move around. LOL
BMI is not a good indicator of health, however, and should not be used as a defining factor in determining whether an employee is "worthy" of working for an organization.0 -
Texas Dept of Corrections, the prison system, hires anyone as a prison guard....5'2 & 350#'s, dont matter what shape as long as they are breathing; and obamacare in essence is excluding elderly fat smokers....http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-204_162-57565787/older-smokers-priced-out-of-obamacare/
People our world is turning into a nightmare.0 -
Overweight and obese employees are statistically more expensive to provide healthcare for. By hiring people with lower BMI, they can reduce insurance costs and make their services more affordable for consumers Why should I pay more for anything because an employer is forced to hire heavier, more expensive employees.
Being obese is a choice. It may not be an easy thing to change but everyone can make the choice and do the work to lower their BMI.0 -
i think people in this thread aren't quite clear on the difference between overweight and obese.
i agree with this. i wouldnt want to take any professional health advice from anyone who's clearly unhealthy, and sorry but regardless of what people might wan to convince themselves of you can not bot be OBESE and healthy.
and for the record, i'd have the same opinion about someone with a 2 pack a day cigarette habit, 2 bopttle a day vodka habit or a 2 random sexual partner without protection habit. the only difference is that you can clearly see when someone is obese0 -
It kind of makes me think of working within a bank, if you have horrible credit and have not made any effort to pay/maintain your debts, they screen you, and you will not be offered a job. Why? Because they dont want someone who owes money, cannot represent the banks expectations of their clients and esp. give advice if they havent been able to breathe it in and put it into practice in their own lives.
If you work in the financial sector you are typically subjected to a background check which includes an analysis of your credit report. People are denied employment in the banking sector all the time for having bad credit - even entry level teller positions.0 -
You know, if that's what they want, they should serve healthy food in their hospital cafeteria, give nurses longer than 30 minutes for lunch, put in a small workout room with exercise machines, and have a lower patient-to-nurse ratio to cut back on stress for their workers. This is particularly important for people who work grave or swing, and even more important if they rotate shifts.
If they don't want obese workers, then they really need to take responsibility for some of the problems they are actively promoting. You can't expect healthy workers if you don't provide a healthy atmosphere.
This!
Yes, yes, YES!0 -
That's pretty sad. If you looked around the hospital where I work, probably 35% of the employees would have a BMI greater than 35.
I will say that I was an excellent nurse with a BMI of 40, and although my quality of life is better with a BMI of 25, I don't think that my nursing practice would be improved, as I was always one of the best nurses on any floor that I worked.
One of the issues that hospitals face is that most are self-insured, meaning they create and fund their own employee insurance plan, which means that they absorb the costs that chronically ill and very unhealthy employees incur. Unfortunately, the few extremely unhealthy employees are the ones that cost the most money to the insurance plan. It probably makes business sense to weed out the employees who have expensive chronic illness like uncontrolled diabetes and heart disease. Eliminating morbidly obese employees would probably benefit their health plans to a certain extent.
Unfortunately, you cannot measure intelligence, compassion and experience with BMI, so once again, hospitals are forgetting that providing the absolute best quality patient care should come before the accounting numbers. Sad state of affairs and the reason that health care in the US is failing at such a great rate compared to the health care in the rest of the world. As long as accountants and MBAs run hospitals, patient care will suffer.
I too work in a hospital and agree.....Pretty sad
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Absolutely not outraged by this, If you can't take care of yourself in this field and it effects your ability to do your job compared to a healthier individual why should you be entitled to the position. The hospital doesn't owe you a position. Not to mention hospirals often gives great medical insurance coverage to their employees, if you don't think company's are not going to start being penalized for offering coverage to people who don't take care of themselves you'd be wrong. Fact is if you have 2 applicants to a position that requires you to be active, one is out if shape and unhealthy the other a healthier individual, in the healthcare industry mind you, which one do you think you should hire. This is just the beginning of the health care industry as well as other industries being proactive against this issue. I'm a student nurse.
I'm not sure where to start on this. First I agree with this as quoted. I think the same applies regarding any emergency responders. Years ago the city I lived in was taken to task over hiring practices in the fire department. (Affirmative action and whether the candidates were being hired for their capabilities or whether there were quotas. ) At the end of the day I want qualified people to get jobs. I don't care if they are overweight or smokers. IMO if you can do the job to the same standards of any of your co-workers weight, age, sex has no bearing.
In the private sector however, if the employer has a specific requirement regarding hiring practices. (ie. hiring Ivy league only, specific nationalities...) while I find it personally wrong, I think that businesses have the right to decide who they want to represent them. Just as I have the right to boycott their products. This likely won't be the popular opinion but bias exists. Better the devil you know if you ask me.0 -
Have to say that I'm in the camp with those who have no problem with this - and that is coming from someone who lives in Texas and whose BMI would not, currently, make the grade.
When my wife's mother was dying of emphysema, it perplexed her to no end that the nurses who were monitoring her mom's lung machine were the same ones ducking out for a quick smoke during their break time.
Same thing applies to me as a (currently) morbidly obese middle aged man. It never held much weight to me (no pun intended) to be getting nutritional and weight loss advice from a practitioner who was in the same boat as myself or even worse shape.
No apologies, but the advice just rings more true to me if it is coming from a source that is practicing what they preach.
Let's face it, how many of us here would be comfortable at the dentist's office if the smile coming back to us from the other side of the chair looked something like this?:
or this?:
Seriously, they could be the best dentist on the planet but I would imagine that there is not a single one of us here that would trust a word of what they said if the smiles above came from our dentist.
The issue is not different if applied to your nurse or doctor.0 -
My personal opinion is that if you're working within a hospital, for whatever inside or outside company, you represent them, so you should also represent what they stand for, health.
It kind of makes me think of working within a bank, if you have horrible credit and have not made any effort to pay/maintain your debts, they screen you, and you will not be offered a job. Why? Because they dont want someone who owes money, cannot represent the banks expectations of their clients and esp. give advice if they havent been able to breathe it in and put it into practice in their own lives.
This is how I see it too, however I think we're going to be in the minority here.
I agree, I don't agree with going by an individual's BMI (there should be a more effective way of determining health), but it's part of the job. Just like models have to look a certain way for their industry, and how fitness trainers have to be/look a certain way for their job.0 -
I don't want to be told to quit smoking by a smoker and I don't want to be told to lose weight by someone fatter than me. A BMI of 35 is still obese, just not morbidly obese. I agree with this rule.
Just because a person doesn't necessarily do what they should, doesn't mean they are unable to offer valid/important advice. If that were the case, there is no point in listening to what most of the users on this site have to say. There are many people who know the right thing to do, but have challenges/obstacles in doing what they know they should (or haven't quite gotten there yet).
With this type of logic, there would be no one to coach professional/olympic athletes; I'm pretty sure some of those guys are fatter or unable to do what the people they are coaching are able to do (should the athletes not listen to their nutrition/technique advice?).0 -
@ SkinnyBubba
I actually agreed with you until you posted those pictures. Were they really necessary? They had absolutely nothing to do with the question.Have to say that I'm in the camp with those who have no problem with this - and that is coming from someone who lives in Texas and whose BMI would not, currently, make the grade.
When my wife's mother was dying of emphysema, it perplexed her to no end that the nurses who were monitoring her mom's lung machine were the same ones ducking out for a quick smoke during their break time.
Same thing applies to me as a (currently) morbidly obese middle aged man. It never held much weight to me (no pun intended) to be getting nutritional and weight loss advice from a practitioner who was in the same boat as myself or even worse shape.
No apologies, but the advice just rings more true to me if it is coming from a source that is practicing what they preach.
Let's face it, how many of us here would be comfortable at the dentist's office if the smile coming back to us from the other side of the chair looked something like this?:
[img][/img]
or this?:
[img][/img]
Seriously, they could be the best dentist on the planet but I would imagine that there is not a single one of us here that would trust a word of what they said if the smiles above came from our dentist.
The issue is not different if applied to your nurse or doctor.0 -
@ SkinnyBubba
I actually agreed with you until you posted those pictures. Were they really necessary? They had absolutely nothing to do with the question.
I would argue that those dental pictures have everything to do with the question.
Demonstrates quite effectively the double-standard that most of us would be outraged if our dentist's own actions were so blatantly incongruous to what they preach but that it is considered prejudiced for us to expect the same degree of standards from our nurses or doctors?0 -
There are more and even better indicators of general health than BMI. However, we have to have a standard of measure for all to be fair, and statisticall, obesity will win out over family history or any other health factor. Like any other wide change, we have to start with this generation to effect future ones. By having criteria like these, we'll be forced to get the information and teach our children how to eat and move. Unfortunately, there's gotta be collateral damage with folks today.0
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this is probably a big generalization but i know so so many nurses. and this is just nurses that know: 90% of them and smoke 90% are majorly overweight. I don’t understand it. maybe it’s just an Minnesota anomaly? but If you find a nurse here that isn’t over weight and doesn’t smoke it’s kind of a rare thing.
It's true here in Chicago too, and has always confused me.0 -
I don't think many of those posting have read the report. The company is not suggesting that obese workers can't do their jobs well, but that their customers won't like to look at them:
. “The majority of our patients are over 65, and they have expectations that cannot be ignored in terms of personal appearance."
They are basing their policy on the perceived prejudices of their clients, which is a horrific way to behave. In France a large cosmetic company got in huge trouble for the same kind of behaviour: they decided they wanted their reps to look more 'French', because that was what their clients would want. Fortunately, such bias based on race is illegal.
I work in a private school. I was educated in the State sector. Some of my pupils have a huge prejudice against their State educated peers. Should my employer act on this prejudice and only employ privately educated teachers?
I could support a policy based in health and safety, but never in pure prejudice like this is.0 -
How about doctors? Ihave seen plenty who are overweight and/or smoke. Can they not practice?0
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I don't care what a nurse or doctor looks like. Period. If they're nice to me and do their job well, that's all I care about. I actually feel more comfortable around a nurse who's a little squishy, sort of like feeling more comfortable with a female OB/GYN.0
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I don't think many of those posting have read the report. The company is not suggesting that obese workers can't do their jobs well, but that their customers won't like to look at them:
. “The majority of our patients are over 65, and they have expectations that cannot be ignored in terms of personal appearance."
They are basing their policy on the perceived prejudices of their clients, which is a horrific way to behave. In France a large cosmetic company got in huge trouble for the same kind of behaviour: they decided they wanted their reps to look more 'French', because that was what their clients would want. Fortunately, such bias based on race is illegal.
I work in a private school. I was educated in the State sector. Some of my pupils have a huge prejudice against their State educated peers. Should my employer act on this prejudice and only employ privately educated teachers?
I could support a policy based in health and safety, but never in pure prejudice like this is.
We all support free choice - as long as it is something we agree with! I also work in education (public) and have received degrees from both public and private universities. It is *known* that some teacher education universities have more prestige and those graduates are more likely to be quickly employed upon graduation.
Public school teachers must pass certain tests to teach in the state of their choice. This applies to those coveted-teacher-university students and to the local state university teacher grads. While passing these tests does not ensure a good teacher, it ensures a basic required knowledge that must be present in teachers. Graduation from a prestigious teacher university ensures they have been taught HOW to teach. That might be biased, but most schools want the most teacher *bang* for their buck, so I can't fault them.
Just as there are guidelines (exams) for teachers, there are healthy BMI ranges for a reason. National Institutes of Health (NIH) shares how obesity while causing health issues, shortens a lifespan by up to 20 years... Why should an employer take on a risky employee vs one who is proactive in their lifestyle?
Lastly, I DID read that it was felt that patients did not want to see obese healthcare professionals. One district I worked for (public) actually had detailed instruction that employees would wear "proper" foundation garments under their clothes. (Yes, there were obese women) and no one wants to see that not properly supported. I will add that I currently have a fellow staff member (not overweight) who wears NO undergarment and the visual is equally offensive. Point being, I believe that employers have the right to decide what they want from their employees, what visual representation they want, and what risks they are willing to take (or not take) by hiring an obese person.
Everyone wants to be a victim and hear ka-ching, let the cash register ring. For the people on this forum (myself included) if I was happy with my weight. eating habits and overall health, I wouldn't be on this site. I find it curious that some of the most vocal on this topic have lost quite a bit of weight (and are in well-deserved progress)... That tells me that people DO understand that obesity affects their health, and their ability to function. Otherwise, why would we make a lifestyle change?0 -
Absolutely not outraged by this, If you can't take care of yourself in this field and it effects your ability to do your job compared to a healthier individual why should you be entitled to the position. The hospital doesn't owe you a position. Not to mention hospirals often gives great medical insurance coverage to their employees, if you don't think company's are not going to start being penalized for offering coverage to people who don't take care of themselves you'd be wrong. Fact is if you have 2 applicants to a position that requires you to be active, one is out if shape and unhealthy the other a healthier individual, in the healthcare industry mind you, which one do you think you should hire. This is just the beginning of the health care industry as well as other industries being proactive against this issue. I'm a student nurse.
I have to disagree with you here. I have been a nurse for 28 years and you know...I am an excellent nurse. I am very good at what I do...and I am not any better now than I was 100 pounds ago. Hospitals don't do enough to help their employees stay fit in my opinion. Sure, they have all these "get healthy advice" programs...but yet when you go to the hospital cafeteria absolutely everything except the lettuce is not fried or drowning in gravy. I take my lunch because it is nearly impossible to get something there that is drowning in fat and carbs. And...it is very rare that a hospital "gives" you great medical coverage. I have excellent insurance to be sure for me and my hubby...I also pay around 160 dollars every two weeks for that coverage. The hospital pays a percentage of it, but it is not free.0 -
@ SkinnyBubba
I actually agreed with you until you posted those pictures. Were they really necessary? They had absolutely nothing to do with the question.
I would argue that those dental pictures have everything to do with the question.
Demonstrates quite effectively the double-standard that most of us would be outraged if our dentist's own actions were so blatantly incongruous to what they preach but that it is considered prejudiced for us to expect the same degree of standards from our nurses or doctors?
I agree with Bubba.
And once again people this is NOT about the ABILITY to do a job. It is about the confidence we as patience feel. Like it or not, offended or not, this is reality.0 -
I think it's stupid to use BMI to determine if someone is fit for working in healthcare.
That being said, I know someone in school for a job in healthcare that is morbidly obese and physically unable to perform chest compressions in an effective manner. Something as simple as repositioning someone in bed is a monumental task for him and transfers are downright impossible. Sure, he may never have to administer CPR, he may get really lucky and always have someone around that can do it for him, but if my loved one was coding, I wouldn't want to roll the dice or waste precious time waiting for him to find someone to stand in the gap.
I think it should certainly be a case by case basis, but if your weight leaves you physically unable to perform your job, it is an issue.
It's one of the reasons I know I have to get a handle on my health before it spins even further out of my control. I would feel like a big (pun intended) hypocrite if I made no effort to improve.0 -
BMI is a ridiculous and outdated measurement of anything. It doesn't take into account muscle mass or body fat at all. Dumbdadumbdumbdumb.0
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I have to say I am pretty surprised to hear other nurses blame the cafeteria and their employers for lack of fitness. To me, that is on spot with blaming McDonalds for being fat. We all face choices every single day of our lives, whether at home, on the road, or at work. Okay, so your cafeteria doesn't offer your ideal healthy meal - are you not allowed to bring your own? If that is the case, then I support your cause, but if not, what is stopping you from bringing a healthy meal? I know you said your bring your lunch, Onaughmae, so how is it the job of our employers to ensure we eat well? Other places of employment don't have cafeterias or gyms, etc. I don't know, I just don't see it as the job of the employer. And if it is a private company, they can hire whomever they see fit. I can see this becoming an issue if it is a state or federally funded hospital.
Edit - I totally agree, Manda. BMI is an inappropriate measure of fitness. But I can certainly understand why a hospital would not want to hire obese nurses for the reasons you just named. It does happen. I am sure there are exceptions to the rule, but in my experience, it is difficult for obese nurses to perform on the same level - physically - as other nurses.0 -
And once again people this is NOT about the ABILITY to do a job. It is about the confidence we as patience feel. Like it or not, offended or not, this is reality.
We *patients* don't all feel that way, though. As some of us have already said, we don't care about how a doctor or nurse looks, as long as they perform their job well and show compassion.0 -
I think it's stupid to use BMI to determine if someone is fit for working in healthcare.
That being said, I know someone in school for a job in healthcare that is morbidly obese and physically unable to perform chest compressions in an effective manner. Something as simple as repositioning someone in bed is a monumental task for him and transfers are downright impossible. Sure, he may never have to administer CPR, he may get really lucky and always have someone around that can do it for him, but if my loved one was coding, I wouldn't want to roll the dice or waste precious time waiting for him to find someone to stand in the gap.
I think it should certainly be a case by case basis, but if your weight leaves you physically unable to perform your job, it is an issue.
It's one of the reasons I know I have to get a handle on my health before it spins even further out of my control. I would feel like a big (pun intended) hypocrite if I made no effort to improve.
My daughter is a nurse, 5 feet tall, and weighs 104. She's tiny. She has to stand on a stepstool to do compressions. She can't turn a 300 lb. person by herself. So should they fire HER?0 -
I have to say I am pretty surprised to hear other nurses blame the cafeteria and their employers for lack of fitness. To me, that is on spot with blaming McDonalds for being fat. We all face choices every single day of our lives, whether at home, on the road, or at work. Okay, so your cafeteria doesn't offer your ideal healthy meal - are you not allowed to bring your own? If that is the case, then I support your cause, but if not, what is stopping you from bringing a healthy meal? I know you said your bring your lunch, Onaughmae, so how is it the job of our employers to ensure we eat well? Other places of employment don't have cafeterias or gyms, etc. I don't know, I just don't see it as the job of the employer. And if it is a private company, they can hire whomever they see fit. I can see this becoming an issue if it is a state or federally funded hospital.
Edit - I totally agree, Manda. BMI is an inappropriate measure of fitness. But I can certainly understand why a hospital would not want to hire obese nurses for the reasons you just named. It does happen. I am sure there are exceptions to the rule, but in my experience, it is difficult for obese nurses to perform on the same level - physically - as other nurses.
OK then -- address the stress level that hospitals place on nurses with high nurse-to-patient ratios, and short lunch breaks -- especially for those working 12s, those working grave and swing or rotating days and grave.
The average age of nurses is 44.5, with the median age of 46. This means that there are a lot of nurses working in their 50s and 60s, after many years of stress and unhealthy working conditions. Promoting healthy conditions within the workplace means that fewer nurses will become obese.
The alternative, to keep the unhealthy environment means you'll use 'em up and kick 'em out...in favor of new grads whom they can pay less, who will then not get to be mentored by people who have had extensive experience.0 -
I am a senior in nursing school now and am appaled by how many of our instructors are not just overweight but obese. I feel it's kind of ironic that you can have such a huge nutrional knowledge base and let yourself become so overweight. I think the hospital has the right to bann overweight workers applications at least as far as physcians, nurses and medical staff go. Not enough time is just an excuse. You can bring healthy fruits and veggies and keep them stocked in the break room. Most hopitals DO serve extremely healthy foods and list the calories on the meals. I eat there most days so I absolutely know our hospital does a great job with serving nutritionaly sound meals.
I have a huge problem with an obese nurse teaching a patient about the DASH diet or any nutrition/diet for that matter. If you cannot maintain a healthy life, how do you expect your patient's to take your teachings seriousyl?!?0 -
I think it's stupid to use BMI to determine if someone is fit for working in healthcare.
That being said, I know someone in school for a job in healthcare that is morbidly obese and physically unable to perform chest compressions in an effective manner. Something as simple as repositioning someone in bed is a monumental task for him and transfers are downright impossible. Sure, he may never have to administer CPR, he may get really lucky and always have someone around that can do it for him, but if my loved one was coding, I wouldn't want to roll the dice or waste precious time waiting for him to find someone to stand in the gap.
I think it should certainly be a case by case basis, but if your weight leaves you physically unable to perform your job, it is an issue.
It's one of the reasons I know I have to get a handle on my health before it spins even further out of my control. I would feel like a big (pun intended) hypocrite if I made no effort to improve.
My daughter is a nurse, 5 feet tall, and weighs 104. She's tiny. She has to stand on a stepstool to do compressions. She can't turn a 300 lb. person by herself. So should they fire HER?
That's apples and oranges. But if someone has a physical condition height/weight/whatever that keeps them from performing a job function, perhaps they should choose something else as a career, especially when lives hang in the balance. I'm not saying your daughter isn't a great nurse or that she's been unable to adapt, I'm sure she is effective in her job or she wouldn't be employed. And that's kind of the point.0 -
I think it's stupid to use BMI to determine if someone is fit for working in healthcare.
That being said, I know someone in school for a job in healthcare that is morbidly obese and physically unable to perform chest compressions in an effective manner. Something as simple as repositioning someone in bed is a monumental task for him and transfers are downright impossible. Sure, he may never have to administer CPR, he may get really lucky and always have someone around that can do it for him, but if my loved one was coding, I wouldn't want to roll the dice or waste precious time waiting for him to find someone to stand in the gap.
I think it should certainly be a case by case basis, but if your weight leaves you physically unable to perform your job, it is an issue.
It's one of the reasons I know I have to get a handle on my health before it spins even further out of my control. I would feel like a big (pun intended) hypocrite if I made no effort to improve.
My daughter is a nurse, 5 feet tall, and weighs 104. She's tiny. She has to stand on a stepstool to do compressions. She can't turn a 300 lb. person by herself. So should they fire HER?
They should probably put her in pediatrics.
My husband is a buff man, very muscular. If I took him into an ER for what ever reason, who EVER is there to do chest compressions on him better be able to do them on him or they will not worry about needing to be fired.0
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