Afterlife: Is There Life After Death?
Replies
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So how are people without god living?Without God in your Life there is no Life.
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Many people have, of course, died for a lie (the mass delusion of the Heaven's Gate cult?). But who would die for something that they knew to be a lie? And they absolutely would have known that it was a lie. And what of the case of the Apostle Paul? As a "good Jew," he actually spent some period of time persecuting the followers of Jesus--he thought them to be infidels and quite out of their minds. Until the Lord Himself appeared to him on the road to Damascus (Paul--then known as Saul--was actually on his way to Damascus with letters from the High Priest in Jerusalem, to detain Jewish followers of Jesus from the synagogues there "and bring them back in chains"). Clearly something quite extraordinary happened to cause him to turn 180 degrees in the opposite direction.
You are assuming that they would have known it to be a lie, completely ignoring the possibility of the power of suggestion...right after acknowledging it with Heaven's Gate. Any clear thinking individual would assume the same thing about Jim Jones' cult in the jungle of Guyana...we saw how that turned out, too.There is a great deal in our universe that confounds us---but yet it can and does exist. To insist that the only things that can exist are limited to those we perceive with our five senses, is equivalent to a small child covering his/her eyes and insisting that he/she cannot be seen.
"...Even if the story of Christ were entirely true...it still does not prove the existence of God, or an afterlife..."
Yes, it does--or it could not be true. Put another way, if Christ was resurrected, then what He said was true--that, "In my Father's house, there are many abodes. If it were not so, I would have told you."
"...It is very much identical to the story of Mohammed, though of course Christians will claim that he was merely a pretender to Christ..."
Actually, I do not know ONE knowledgeable Christian who believes that Mohammed "was a pretender to Christ". I often engage Muslims on Christian forums and will, just as often, ask the question, "If you believe He was a prophet, why don't you believe Him?" They never have an answer for that question. And the story of Mohammed is VERY FAR from the story of Jesus. If you could make that statement, you are ill-informed about the Christian faith AND Islam.0 -
"...You are assuming that they would have known it to be a lie, completely ignoring the possibility of the power of suggestion...right after acknowledging it with Heaven's Gate....."
They would have had to have known---either Jesus was resurrected or He was not. It was NOT the "power of suggestion". Jesus was DEAD--that was made certain by His Roman executioners. They would have been in very deep trouble if Jesus' followers had been able to rescue Him. There was a seal and a guard set at His tomb.
The Heaven's Gate people never witnessed the resurrection of their leader, nor did they claim it.0 -
Or they could have lied to save their family from grief and discrimination.A death-bed testimony is considered to be very powerful, as a dying person is not presumed to lie--under the principle of "nemo moriturus praesumitur mentiri". All of the eye-witnesses went to their deaths bearing the testimony of the truth of Christ's resurrection. They could have easily escaped death by declaring it all a lie---they did not, gladly suffering death to the denial of what they knew to be the truth. What you said is quite irrelevant. We all know that some people lie.
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Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
How on earth does THAT work??0 -
Testimony can be disputed by fact. Why do you think people still get convicted when testimony is in there behalf? You hear ALL THE TIME "I know this person, there's NO WAY they could have done this", then there's DNA, crime evidence, eyewitnesses, camera proof that showed that person did it.You, who claim to have no faith, are going to define faith for me? Real, abiding faith, is NOT mental assent to a "doctrine of religion". As I have stated before, it is a supernatural event that happens by the will of the "Father of Lights." He convinces of truth by the Spirit of Truth. Since when has testimony ceased to be evidence? (Maybe you should try saying that in a court of law sometime and see what the judge says?"
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
So what? Either Jesus was resurrected or He wasn't. That's not a matter of opinion as to His character.0 -
I'm really not sure. In the religion I was brought up with (Islam) we are taught that the life that we are living now is not the real life but an illusion. When we die is when we truly wake up. I'm really not too sure but meh, i respect what my parents and friends believe in.0
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I would hope there is some sort of afterlife, but I don't believe there is. It's scary to think of there not being one, and I feel faith and/or religion really helps some people avoid that fear... but I have neither faith nor religion to comfort me. Ah well.0
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Our consciousness is just electrical impulses. When we die they merge with the electrical energy of the Universe. We become one with everything...
I hope.0 -
"...You're assuming through this article that it's not true. The article doesn't state it's not true. It's just questioning it based on a study done that MAY refute it. Nothing is conclusive here yet...."
No, I very carefully said that some assumptions that it is based on may not be true.
"...Getting a grant (since the money needs to be spent or it won't be provided) doesn't ensure that information is going to be better than someone else who's an expert in that field. Lol, why would we consult experts if that were the case?..."
I don't think you understand that grants from the National Institutes of Health are NOT passed out willy-nilly. In any case, it was just an example to refute your contention that Sanford is not qualified to comment because it is not his exact area of expertise.0 -
Oh, brother!No because there is no such thing as life, just the illusion of it....my theory anyway0 -
Actually, I do not know ONE knowledgeable Christian who believes that Mohammed "was a pretender to Christ". I often engage Muslims on Christian forums and will, just as often, ask the question, "If you believe He was a prophet, why don't you believe Him?" They never have an answer for that question. And the story of Mohammed is VERY FAR from the story of Jesus. If you could make that statement, you are ill-informed about the Christian faith AND Islam.
well maybe because the Koran and the Bible don't have the same stories and interpretations. It's weird that you assume that because Muslims don't believe Jesus is God that they don't believe his words. Even his words in our language can take different meaning. So much is left to interpretation. Maybe their silence indicated a sense of having been insulted by your loaded question, rather than an inability to prove you wrong.0 -
Here's my belief;
-From a proud Muslim Alhamdulillah.0 -
Actually, I do not know ONE knowledgeable Christian who believes that Mohammed "was a pretender to Christ". I often engage Muslims on Christian forums and will, just as often, ask the question, "If you believe He was a prophet, why don't you believe Him?" They never have an answer for that question. And the story of Mohammed is VERY FAR from the story of Jesus. If you could make that statement, you are ill-informed about the Christian faith AND Islam.
well maybe because the Koran and the Bible don't have the same stories and interpretations. It's weird that you assume that because Muslims don't believe Jesus is God that they don't believe his words. Even his words in our language can take different meaning. So much is left to interpretation. Maybe their silence indicated a sense of having been insulted by your loaded question, rather than an inability to prove you wrong.
Well, it would be interesting to see them try to disprove what Jesus plainly said in our New Testament (and for which, the Jews wanted to stone Him).0 -
@Runningfatawa:
You mean:
So lie, fornicate, steal, be proud and seek strength over others...
Good way to live.
But what's the point of anything else if this life is just an illusion0 -
Actually, I do not know ONE knowledgeable Christian who believes that Mohammed "was a pretender to Christ". I often engage Muslims on Christian forums and will, just as often, ask the question, "If you believe He was a prophet, why don't you believe Him?" They never have an answer for that question. And the story of Mohammed is VERY FAR from the story of Jesus. If you could make that statement, you are ill-informed about the Christian faith AND Islam.
well maybe because the Koran and the Bible don't have the same stories and interpretations. It's weird that you assume that because Muslims don't believe Jesus is God that they don't believe his words. Even his words in our language can take different meaning. So much is left to interpretation. Maybe their silence indicated a sense of having been insulted by your loaded question, rather than an inability to prove you wrong.
Well, it would be interesting to see them try to disprove what Jesus plainly said in our New Testament (and for which, the Jews wanted to stone Him).
Your new testament isn't the same as the Koran. So why would they bother? It is as meaninful to them as their book is to you.
You understand this, right?
ETA:
"Like all prophets in Islam, Jesus is considered to have been a Muslim (i.e., one who submits to the will of God), as he preached that his followers should adopt the "straight path" as commanded by God. Islam rejects the Trinitarian Christian view that Jesus was God incarnate or the son of God, that he was ever crucified or resurrected, or that he ever atoned for the sins of mankind. The Quran says that Jesus himself never claimed any of these things, and it furthermore indicates that Jesus will deny having ever claimed divinity at the Last Judgment, and God will vindicate him.[5] The Quran emphasizes that Jesus was a mortal human being who, like all other prophets, had been divinely chosen to spread God's message. Islamic texts forbid the association of partners with God (shirk), emphasizing a strict notion of monotheism (tawhīd)."
So, they do believe him. They might have wanted to say to you "why do you not believe him?", based on his word as recorded in the Koran.0 -
Aside from my personal faith, as a hospice nurse, I have been with people through their finals days, hours and minutes and have seen time and again people who appear to be met by someone/something familiar and comforting and guided into their next life.
I think this sounds just about right, my sister passed away at age 34 from cancer and in her final days she would talk with my grandma and in her final hour before she died she was in a hurry telling my mom and her husband to "Hurry and get me ready my Nana is waiting for me, hurry!" Yes I do think so spirits and do exsist.0 -
@Runningfatawa:
You mean:
So lie, fornicate, steal, be proud and seek strength over others...
Good way to live.
But what's the point of anything else if this life is just an illusion
What are you talking about? The text on the bottom of the image just states things that go on in this world. You have definitely misinterpreted the image.
"Every soul will taste death, and you will only be given your [full] compensation on the Day of Resurrection. So he who is drawn away from the Fire and admitted to Paradise has attained [his desire]. And what is the life of this world except the enjoyment of delusion." Qur'an 3:1850 -
Actually, I do not know ONE knowledgeable Christian who believes that Mohammed "was a pretender to Christ". I often engage Muslims on Christian forums and will, just as often, ask the question, "If you believe He was a prophet, why don't you believe Him?" They never have an answer for that question. And the story of Mohammed is VERY FAR from the story of Jesus. If you could make that statement, you are ill-informed about the Christian faith AND Islam.
I never said 'knowledgable Christian'. I am talking about run of the mill Sunday dosers who know little beyond what 'Preacha man' tells them, yet feel compelled to spread a word that they themselves do not fully understand.
As for the statement about Jesus and Mohammed, I was being...nice. I've already been reported once from this thread, so I was trying to avoid saying anything that would get under the skin of the overly sensitive. What I actually meant was they are nearly identical in their level of ridiculousness, so far as the claims of their followers go.The Heaven's Gate people never witnessed the resurrection of their leader, nor did they claim it.
I never said they did. What I was getting at is that some people will believe anything, no matter how ridiculous it is. I can't recall from memory, so perhaps you can help me...exactly how many resurrections were mentioned in the Bible? I know there were at least a couple more than just Jesus. This would lead one to believe that resurrection was at least relatively common in those days. Funny how we don't see it anymore without the assistance of a pretty big shock. Oh, not to mention the whole 'brain damage that would occur if the heart were stopped for three days' thing.0 -
@Runningfatawa:
You mean:
So lie, fornicate, steal, be proud and seek strength over others...
Good way to live.
But what's the point of anything else if this life is just an illusion
What are you talking about? The text on the bottom of the image just states things that go on in this world. You have definitely misinterpreted the image.
"Every soul will taste death, and you will only be given your [full] compensation on the Day of Resurrection. So he who is drawn away from the Fire and admitted to Paradise has attained [his desire]. And what is the life of this world except the enjoyment of delusion." Qur'an 3:185
Fatawa, I understood the meaning of the image.
It's exactly like what the christians who raised me taught me to believe, that the worldly things are bad- lust, power, etc.- and our life will be wonderful in God's presence after death.0 -
if this turns into a battle of which Judeo-Christian-Islam lineage religion is better, I'm going to start posting underwear pics and lock this thread!!!!!
I'M WARNING YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!0 -
Actually, I do not know ONE knowledgeable Christian who believes that Mohammed "was a pretender to Christ". I often engage Muslims on Christian forums and will, just as often, ask the question, "If you believe He was a prophet, why don't you believe Him?" They never have an answer for that question. And the story of Mohammed is VERY FAR from the story of Jesus. If you could make that statement, you are ill-informed about the Christian faith AND Islam.
well maybe because the Koran and the Bible don't have the same stories and interpretations. It's weird that you assume that because Muslims don't believe Jesus is God that they don't believe his words. Even his words in our language can take different meaning. So much is left to interpretation. Maybe their silence indicated a sense of having been insulted by your loaded question, rather than an inability to prove you wrong.
Well, it would be interesting to see them try to disprove what Jesus plainly said in our New Testament (and for which, the Jews wanted to stone Him).
Your new testament isn't the same as the Koran. So why would they bother? It is as meaninful to them as their book is to you.
You understand this, right?
You are mistaken. Muslims accept both the Old and New Testaments (they came WELL before the Q'uran). Much of the Q'uran is a recapitulation of what they call "The Book" (just as they call Jews and Christians "People of the Book"). Muslims accept all three---Christians only accept two and Jews accept only the Tanakh. Only the New Testament teaches followers of Jesus to live in peace with all men of good will. Only one presents the fullness of truth.0 -
Actually, I do not know ONE knowledgeable Christian who believes that Mohammed "was a pretender to Christ". I often engage Muslims on Christian forums and will, just as often, ask the question, "If you believe He was a prophet, why don't you believe Him?" They never have an answer for that question. And the story of Mohammed is VERY FAR from the story of Jesus. If you could make that statement, you are ill-informed about the Christian faith AND Islam.
Muhammad was most definitely NOT a pretender of Jesus. We believe that both Muhammad and Jesus were prophets. We respect all of the prophets. He left us with the holy Qur'an and the Sunnah (the teachings of Muhammad (pbuh), of course we're going to follow him. A prophet is someone who interprets and communicates the will of God. God has more power than all of the messengers combined, we both obey the one and only God.
Prophet Muhammad was the final messenger of Allah, and was sent to complete the mission of the previous Messengers (including Abraham, Moses, Jesus and others) of calling people to believing in God and following the guidance and teachings of God. We see Muhammad as the highest role model and aim to follow in his footsteps and Muhammad himself follows Allahs orders as well.
"Say (Oh Muhammad): ‘If you (truly) love Allah then follow me, so that Allah may love you and forgive your sins.’ And Allah is All-Forgiving, All-Compassionate." (3:31)0 -
Actually, I do not know ONE knowledgeable Christian who believes that Mohammed "was a pretender to Christ". I often engage Muslims on Christian forums and will, just as often, ask the question, "If you believe He was a prophet, why don't you believe Him?" They never have an answer for that question. And the story of Mohammed is VERY FAR from the story of Jesus. If you could make that statement, you are ill-informed about the Christian faith AND Islam.
well maybe because the Koran and the Bible don't have the same stories and interpretations. It's weird that you assume that because Muslims don't believe Jesus is God that they don't believe his words. Even his words in our language can take different meaning. So much is left to interpretation. Maybe their silence indicated a sense of having been insulted by your loaded question, rather than an inability to prove you wrong.
Well, it would be interesting to see them try to disprove what Jesus plainly said in our New Testament (and for which, the Jews wanted to stone Him).
Your new testament isn't the same as the Koran. So why would they bother? It is as meaninful to them as their book is to you.
You understand this, right?
You are mistaken. Muslims accept both the Old and New Testaments (they came WELL before the Q'uran). Much of the Q'uran is a recapitulation of what they call "The Book" (just as they call Jews and Christians "People of the Book"). Muslims accept all three---Christians only accept two and Jews accept only the Tanakh. Only the New Testament teaches followers of Jesus to live in peace with all men of good will. Only one presents the fullness of truth.
I invite you to pick up a Koran and read it before you say things that are not true.0 -
Not even the BIBLE is written the same every time- hence the versions. King James, etc.
Here's a story I ask you to read and tell me where in the Bible you can find this story of Jesus, which exists in the Koran:
http://www.welcome-back.org/topic/jesus.htm0 -
Actually, I do not know ONE knowledgeable Christian who believes that Mohammed "was a pretender to Christ". I often engage Muslims on Christian forums and will, just as often, ask the question, "If you believe He was a prophet, why don't you believe Him?" They never have an answer for that question. And the story of Mohammed is VERY FAR from the story of Jesus. If you could make that statement, you are ill-informed about the Christian faith AND Islam.
I never said 'knowledgable Christian'. I am talking about run of the mill Sunday dosers who know little beyond what 'Preacha man' tells them, yet feel compelled to spread a word that they themselves do not fully understand.
As for the statement about Jesus and Mohammed, I was being...nice. I've already been reported once from this thread, so I was trying to avoid saying anything that would get under the skin of the overly sensitive. What I actually meant was they are nearly identical in their level of ridiculousness, so far as the claims of their followers go.The Heaven's Gate people never witnessed the resurrection of their leader, nor did they claim it.
I never said they did. What I was getting at is that some people will believe anything, no matter how ridiculous it is. I can't recall from memory, so perhaps you can help me...exactly how many resurrections were mentioned in the Bible? I know there were at least a couple more than just Jesus. This would lead one to believe that resurrection was at least relatively common in those days. Funny how we don't see it anymore without the assistance of a pretty big shock. Oh, not to mention the whole 'brain damage that would occur if the heart were stopped for three days' thing.
There is resuscitation (such as that of Lazarus) and there is resurrection---two entirely different things. The first is that of a mortal who is "put back together" in mortal flesh, the second is immortal.0 -
Actually, I do not know ONE knowledgeable Christian who believes that Mohammed "was a pretender to Christ". I often engage Muslims on Christian forums and will, just as often, ask the question, "If you believe He was a prophet, why don't you believe Him?" They never have an answer for that question. And the story of Mohammed is VERY FAR from the story of Jesus. If you could make that statement, you are ill-informed about the Christian faith AND Islam.
well maybe because the Koran and the Bible don't have the same stories and interpretations. It's weird that you assume that because Muslims don't believe Jesus is God that they don't believe his words. Even his words in our language can take different meaning. So much is left to interpretation. Maybe their silence indicated a sense of having been insulted by your loaded question, rather than an inability to prove you wrong.
Well, it would be interesting to see them try to disprove what Jesus plainly said in our New Testament (and for which, the Jews wanted to stone Him).
Your new testament isn't the same as the Koran. So why would they bother? It is as meaninful to them as their book is to you.
You understand this, right?
You are mistaken. Muslims accept both the Old and New Testaments (they came WELL before the Q'uran). Much of the Q'uran is a recapitulation of what they call "The Book" (just as they call Jews and Christians "People of the Book"). Muslims accept all three---Christians only accept two and Jews accept only the Tanakh. Only the New Testament teaches followers of Jesus to live in peace with all men of good will. Only one presents the fullness of truth.
^ No, I think you're clearly mistaken. I suggest you go pick up a copy of the Qur'an and the Bible an re-educate yourself instead of passing around gibberish.0 -
^ No, I think you're clearly mistaken. I suggest you go pick up a copy of the Qur'an and the Bible an re-educate yourself instead of passing around gibberish.
hehe. did you see my comment above. I want to make a joke about all the christmas carols and little nativity sets got it wrong... sweet baby jesus wasn't born in a manger! No! He was born by a palm tree! Because the Koran and the Bible are like totally exactly the same!!!!0 -
Actually, I do not know ONE knowledgeable Christian who believes that Mohammed "was a pretender to Christ". I often engage Muslims on Christian forums and will, just as often, ask the question, "If you believe He was a prophet, why don't you believe Him?" They never have an answer for that question. And the story of Mohammed is VERY FAR from the story of Jesus. If you could make that statement, you are ill-informed about the Christian faith AND Islam.
well maybe because the Koran and the Bible don't have the same stories and interpretations. It's weird that you assume that because Muslims don't believe Jesus is God that they don't believe his words. Even his words in our language can take different meaning. So much is left to interpretation. Maybe their silence indicated a sense of having been insulted by your loaded question, rather than an inability to prove you wrong.
Well, it would be interesting to see them try to disprove what Jesus plainly said in our New Testament (and for which, the Jews wanted to stone Him).
Your new testament isn't the same as the Koran. So why would they bother? It is as meaninful to them as their book is to you.
You understand this, right?
You are mistaken. Muslims accept both the Old and New Testaments (they came WELL before the Q'uran). Much of the Q'uran is a recapitulation of what they call "The Book" (just as they call Jews and Christians "People of the Book"). Muslims accept all three---Christians only accept two and Jews accept only the Tanakh. Only the New Testament teaches followers of Jesus to live in peace with all men of good will. Only one presents the fullness of truth.
^ No, I think you're clearly mistaken. I suggest you go pick up a copy of the Qur'an and the Bible an re-educate yourself instead of passing around gibberish.
I will not debate this here. There are many Christian forums where I would engage this topic. I invite you to pick one and I would go there for debate. This is not the proper place for this discussion. Besides, it would likely be shut down before we got very far into debate.0 -
^ No, I think you're clearly mistaken. I suggest you go pick up a copy of the Qur'an and the Bible an re-educate yourself instead of passing around gibberish.
hehe. did you see my comment above. I want to make a joke about all the christmas carols and little nativity sets got it wrong... sweet baby jesus wasn't born in a manger! No! He was born by a palm tree! Because the Koran and the Bible are like totally exactly the same!!!!
Oh mah lawwd lol :laugh:0 -
Actually, I do not know ONE knowledgeable Christian who believes that Mohammed "was a pretender to Christ". I often engage Muslims on Christian forums and will, just as often, ask the question, "If you believe He was a prophet, why don't you believe Him?" They never have an answer for that question. And the story of Mohammed is VERY FAR from the story of Jesus. If you could make that statement, you are ill-informed about the Christian faith AND Islam.
well maybe because the Koran and the Bible don't have the same stories and interpretations. It's weird that you assume that because Muslims don't believe Jesus is God that they don't believe his words. Even his words in our language can take different meaning. So much is left to interpretation. Maybe their silence indicated a sense of having been insulted by your loaded question, rather than an inability to prove you wrong.
Well, it would be interesting to see them try to disprove what Jesus plainly said in our New Testament (and for which, the Jews wanted to stone Him).
Your new testament isn't the same as the Koran. So why would they bother? It is as meaninful to them as their book is to you.
You understand this, right?
You are mistaken. Muslims accept both the Old and New Testaments (they came WELL before the Q'uran). Much of the Q'uran is a recapitulation of what they call "The Book" (just as they call Jews and Christians "People of the Book"). Muslims accept all three---Christians only accept two and Jews accept only the Tanakh. Only the New Testament teaches followers of Jesus to live in peace with all men of good will. Only one presents the fullness of truth.
^ No, I think you're clearly mistaken. I suggest you go pick up a copy of the Qur'an and the Bible an re-educate yourself instead of passing around gibberish.
I will not debate this here. There are many Christian forums where I would engage this topic. I invite you to pick one and I would go there for debate. This is not the proper place for this discussion. Besides, it would likely be shut down before we got very far into debate.
she says after 15 pages.
Honey, God ain't gonna be mad at you if you just pick up a Koran and read a few pages to confirm whether or not it directly matches the bible up until after Jesus' resurection! He won't!
But just remember, it starts in the back and goes to the front.
That's a common Koran Noob mistake.0
This discussion has been closed.
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