Afterlife: Is There Life After Death?
Replies
-
So the story about an apostle lying about knowing jesus wasn't true?:laugh:
Say a man cheated on his wife. She believes he did. He emphatically denies it. Eventually she believes him. Their marriage is fine. He then falls to a terminal illness. Right before he dies, he tells her he cheated.How on earth does THAT work??
Now do you think that telling her the truth made her feel good or worse about herself the rest of her life because he confessed at death?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
*sigh* Your "analogy" is not at all a good one. You forget that these men were believing Jews who would be risking their eternal souls to insist on something that, if it wasn't true, would be blaspheming God in a terrible way. Yet, they all maintained the truth of it until their martyrdom.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
My understanding is that all three faiths believe in the Patriarchs (Abraham, Moses etc.). It's Jesus who throws them into a conundrum.
Precisely. However, since Jesus is a core figure of one (Christianity), and a relatively important figure in another (Islam), it's kind of hard to see how this difference could be reconciled. The core issue with any religion is that there are so many, which one is correct in it's methods of salvation? While one could view this from the outside as a relatively minor detail, I am pretty sure that it would be a pretty damned important consideration for anyone not wanting to spend an eternity in Hell, assuming that the afterlife exists.
The monotheisms' 'my way or the highway' attitude is the real problem. If the God of the monotheisms does exist, he certainly has a pretty sick sense of humor when you are talking about gambling with the souls of billions upon billions of individuals. I could grasp it a bit more if it were all about 'living a good life', but it's not. That's only part of the equation. You still only have a theoretical 33.33333~% chance of getting it right, so to speak.0 -
So then free will is tossed out?Likewise, only God can turn a heart.
Relatively speaking, this god is supposedly omnipotent and omnipresent so apparently he knows everyone's outcome. If anything happens (since the outcome is already forseen) then whatever path we're taking is the one we're suppose to take right?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Bravo to this.My understanding is that all three faiths believe in the Patriarchs (Abraham, Moses etc.). It's Jesus who throws them into a conundrum.
Precisely. However, since Jesus is a core figure of one (Christianity), and a relatively important figure in another (Islam), it's kind of hard to see how this difference could be reconciled. The core issue with any religion is that there are so many, which one is correct in it's methods of salvation? While one could view this from the outside as a relatively minor detail, I am pretty sure that it would be a pretty damned important consideration for anyone not wanting to spend an eternity in Hell, assuming that the afterlife exists.
The monotheisms' 'my way or the highway' attitude is the real problem. If the God of the monotheisms does exist, he certainly has a pretty sick sense of humor when you are talking about gambling with the souls of billions upon billions of individuals. I could grasp it a bit more if it were all about 'living a good life', but it's not. That's only part of the equation. You still only have a theoretical 33.33333~% chance of getting it right, so to speak.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
So then free will is tossed out?Likewise, only God can turn a heart.
Relatively speaking, this god is supposedly omnipotent and omnipresent so apparently he knows everyone's outcome. If anything happens (since the outcome is already forseen) then whatever path we're taking is the one we're suppose to take right?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Ah, now we're getting into Calvanism and there is a difference of opinion even amongs Christians who believe in salvation through Jesus' death on the cross: once saved always saved or can you lose your salvation?0 -
So then free will is tossed out?Likewise, only God can turn a heart.
Relatively speaking, this god is supposedly omnipotent and omnipresent so apparently he knows everyone's outcome. If anything happens (since the outcome is already forseen) then whatever path we're taking is the one we're suppose to take right?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Another quandary: free will vs. predestination0 -
Ah, now we're getting into Calvanism and there is a difference of opinion even amongs Christians who believe in salvation through Jesus' death on the cross: once saved always saved or can you lose your salvation?
Therein lies another problem. If even the proponents of a system can't agree upon how it works, how can anyone be certain that any of it is right, and not just people scrambling for anything they can cobble together to attempt to save face? Misinterpretation is one thing, but what we have these days far exceeds a little 'oops, I read that wrong'.0 -
my thoughts exactly
0 -
my thoughts exactly
You thought wrooooong.
Dear Posters,
Please note that certain topics that were formerly off-limits in the public forums are now permitted to remain on the boards, though we strongly recommend utilizing the new Group feature if you are concerned about unwanted commentary on your topic. The moderators will do our best to enforce civil conversation in this thread, and we expect all participants in this thread to abide by the guidelines which you can review in their entirety here: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/welcome/guidelines
Posts made to publicize existing Groups are allowed in ALL cases on the Public Forums.
Please DO NOT report a post that is advertising a group, or that is proceeding politely and without incident.
If you start a new topic on the Public Forums, please use the following guideline as a filter:
Divisive topics, particularly those that seek input from or are relevant only to a select group of users, are better placed within an appropriate Group rather than the Main Forums. For example, topics relevant to only one religion should not be placed on the main forums but rather within a group related to that religion.
At our discretion, this thread may be locked or deleted at any time..
With respect,
Scott
MyFitnessPal Staff
From just a few posts up.0 -
Ah, now we're getting into Calvanism and there is a difference of opinion even amongs Christians who believe in salvation through Jesus' death on the cross: once saved always saved or can you lose your salvation?
Therein lies another problem. If even the proponents of a system can't agree upon how it works, how can anyone be certain that any of it is right, and not just people scrambling for anything they can cobble together to attempt to save face? Misinterpretation is one thing, but what we have these days far exceeds a little 'oops, I read that wrong'.
I do believe that God wants us to question Him. To bring our doubts and confusion to Him. He wants it to be a real, living faith and relationship. A back and forth, getting to know Him.
It's not stagnant. He wants us to know why we believe what we believe. We're not robots. He created us to be in relationship with Him.
He gave us free will because He loves us and wants it to be our choice to believe in Him and follow Him. He doesn't want to force us into a relationship with him.
Same way as I want my husband and children to WANT to have relationship with me. I want them to freely give their love rather than it be an obligation with resentment.
I am a member of a denomination. But, in general ritual, tradition and religion really turn me off with their propensity for hypocrisy and the my way or highway mentality.
I sense God most in my life when it's me and Him one on one, while being guided by my pastor.
This probably will not satisfy your quest for argumentative proof one bit, but it's all I got right now.. 0 -
I do believe that God wants us to question Him. To bring our doubts and confusion to Him. He wants it to be a real, living faith and relationship. A back and forth, getting to know Him.
It's not stagnant. He wants us to know why we believe what we believe. We're not robots. He created us to be in relationship with Him.
He gave us free will because He loves us and wants it to be our choice to believe in Him and follow Him. He doesn't want to force us into a relationship with him.
Same way as I want my husband and children to WANT to have relationship with me. I want them to freely give their love rather than it be an obligation with resentment.
I am a member of a denomination. But, in general ritual, tradition and religion really turn me off with their propensity for hypocrisy and the my way or highway mentality.
I sense God most in my life when it's me and Him one on one, while being guided by my pastor.
This probably will not satisfy your quest for argumentative proof one bit, but it's all I got right now..
Actually, what you just provided is better than the "proof" that most offer up. You don't sound like you are trying to convince anyone of anything, which says to me that you hold your faith without feeling required to justify it. To be quite honest, I think you are the first person who has told me that they feel that God wishes to be questioned. Many stick to the same old "God will not be tested" wall, and quite frankly, that wouldn't make any sense, given that if we were indeed created by Him, He would HAVE to know that it was going to come to this point eventually.
The funny thing is that, explaining God in a personified manner, as you just did, would have gotten you racked and burned in the not too distant past. However, maybe that's what the monotheisms have been missing all along.0 -
What of children that die at birth or shortly after? Obviously if one is "born" into sin according to christian belief, then these children can't have received redemption, right?I do believe that God wants us to question Him. To bring our doubts and confusion to Him. He wants it to be a real, living faith and relationship. A back and forth, getting to know Him.
It's not stagnant. He wants us to know why we believe what we believe. We're not robots. He created us to be in relationship with Him.
He gave us free will because He loves us and wants it to be our choice to believe in Him and follow Him. He doesn't want to force us into a relationship with him.
Same way as I want my husband and children to WANT to have relationship with me. I want them to freely give their love rather than it be an obligation with resentment.
I am a member of a denomination. But, in general ritual, tradition and religion really turn me off with their propensity for hypocrisy and the my way or highway mentality.
I sense God most in my life when it's me and Him one on one, while being guided by my pastor.
This probably will not satisfy your quest for argumentative proof one bit, but it's all I got right now..
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Also, picking up our discussion from a couple days ago.
We did not have our daughter water baptized as an infant, since she could not obviously make that choice on her own.
Rather we dedicated her, meaning we would raise her according to our beliefs.
Hang on, there's more!
We also believe that when she is old enough to decide, she can choose to get water baptized to announce her beliefs publicly and that she would need to decide what she believed and have her own faith apart from us.
So, in that way, I don't believe we hammered it onto her head.
It is ultimately her choice.
I have an early day in the morning with the aforementioned girl, so ta ta for now...0 -
Also, picking up our discussion from a couple days ago.
We did not have our daughter water baptized as an infant, since she could not obviously make that choice on her own.
Rather we dedicated her, meaning we would raise her according to our beliefs.
Hang on, there's more!
We also believe that when she is old enough to decide, she can choose to get water baptized to announce her beliefs publicly and that she would need to decide what she believed and have her own faith apart from us.
So, in that way, I don't believe we hammered it onto her head.
It is ultimately her choice.
I have an early day in the morning with the aforementioned girl, so ta ta for now...
Have a good evening.0 -
What of children that die at birth or shortly after? Obviously if one is "born" into sin according to christian belief, then these children can't have received redemption, right?I do believe that God wants us to question Him. To bring our doubts and confusion to Him. He wants it to be a real, living faith and relationship. A back and forth, getting to know Him.
It's not stagnant. He wants us to know why we believe what we believe. We're not robots. He created us to be in relationship with Him.
He gave us free will because He loves us and wants it to be our choice to believe in Him and follow Him. He doesn't want to force us into a relationship with him.
Same way as I want my husband and children to WANT to have relationship with me. I want them to freely give their love rather than it be an obligation with resentment.
I am a member of a denomination. But, in general ritual, tradition and religion really turn me off with their propensity for hypocrisy and the my way or highway mentality.
I sense God most in my life when it's me and Him one on one, while being guided by my pastor.
This probably will not satisfy your quest for argumentative proof one bit, but it's all I got right now..
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Good question. We believe in an age of accountability (as I alluded to in my last past) when I child is old enough to grasp the tenets of our faith and either accept or reject them.
Therefore, infants go straight to heaven along with people with severe developmental disabilities etc.0 -
Also, picking up our discussion from a couple days ago.
We did not have our daughter water baptized as an infant, since she could not obviously make that choice on her own.
Rather we dedicated her, meaning we would raise her according to our beliefs.
Hang on, there's more!
We also believe that when she is old enough to decide, she can choose to get water baptized to announce her beliefs publicly and that she would need to decide what she believed and have her own faith apart from us.
So, in that way, I don't believe we hammered it onto her head.
It is ultimately her choice.
I have an early day in the morning with the aforementioned girl, so ta ta for now...
Have a good evening.
Yes, I must turn off this iPad and go to sleep! This is such an interesting discussion :yawn:0 -
Not to keep you up all night, so answer when you have time, but I'd like to see scripture that quotes that.
What of children that die at birth or shortly after? Obviously if one is "born" into sin according to christian belief, then these children can't have received redemption, right?I do believe that God wants us to question Him. To bring our doubts and confusion to Him. He wants it to be a real, living faith and relationship. A back and forth, getting to know Him.
It's not stagnant. He wants us to know why we believe what we believe. We're not robots. He created us to be in relationship with Him.
He gave us free will because He loves us and wants it to be our choice to believe in Him and follow Him. He doesn't want to force us into a relationship with him.
Same way as I want my husband and children to WANT to have relationship with me. I want them to freely give their love rather than it be an obligation with resentment.
I am a member of a denomination. But, in general ritual, tradition and religion really turn me off with their propensity for hypocrisy and the my way or highway mentality.
I sense God most in my life when it's me and Him one on one, while being guided by my pastor.
This probably will not satisfy your quest for argumentative proof one bit, but it's all I got right now..
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Good question. We believe in an age of accountability (as I alluded to in my last past) when I child is old enough to grasp the tenets of our faith and either accept or reject them.
Therefore, infants go straight to heaven along with people with severe developmental disabilities etc.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
@Gallowmere: yes, God knew we were going to get to that point of questioning,
@ninerbuff: I'm a Packers fan. Oops, wrong discussion... Yes, I will get back to you.
Good night!0 -
my thoughts exactly
You thought wrooooong.Dear Posters,
Please note that certain topics that were formerly off-limits in the public forums are now permitted to remain on the boards, though we strongly recommend utilizing the new Group feature if you are concerned about unwanted commentary on your topic. The moderators will do our best to enforce civil conversation in this thread, and we expect all participants in this thread to abide by the guidelines which you can review in their entirety here: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/welcome/guidelines
Posts made to publicize existing Groups are allowed in ALL cases on the Public Forums.
Please DO NOT report a post that is advertising a group, or that is proceeding politely and without incident.
If you start a new topic on the Public Forums, please use the following guideline as a filter:
Divisive topics, particularly those that seek input from or are relevant only to a select group of users, are better placed within an appropriate Group rather than the Main Forums. For example, topics relevant to only one religion should not be placed on the main forums but rather within a group related to that religion.
At our discretion, this thread may be locked or deleted at any time..
With respect,
Scott
MyFitnessPal Staff
From just a few posts up.
LOL I just didn't feel like reading through all the pages of arguments over this topic, because obviously IT IS A TOUCHY TOPIC FOR MANY PEOPLE!
I seen that on the first page, thought it fit lol.
My opinion shall remain within, as I'm agnostic.
My beliefs are mine, and mine only and they are subject to change whenever I feel they should.
(:
I just don't think this should have became a debate over religion rather than what the OP asked.
Maybe I'm a vampire? Maybe I'm walking as life after death lol.0 -
Since the discussion does revolve around religious beliefs, then debating about it is appropriate.
my thoughts exactly
You thought wrooooong.Dear Posters,
Please note that certain topics that were formerly off-limits in the public forums are now permitted to remain on the boards, though we strongly recommend utilizing the new Group feature if you are concerned about unwanted commentary on your topic. The moderators will do our best to enforce civil conversation in this thread, and we expect all participants in this thread to abide by the guidelines which you can review in their entirety here: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/welcome/guidelines
Posts made to publicize existing Groups are allowed in ALL cases on the Public Forums.
Please DO NOT report a post that is advertising a group, or that is proceeding politely and without incident.
If you start a new topic on the Public Forums, please use the following guideline as a filter:
Divisive topics, particularly those that seek input from or are relevant only to a select group of users, are better placed within an appropriate Group rather than the Main Forums. For example, topics relevant to only one religion should not be placed on the main forums but rather within a group related to that religion.
At our discretion, this thread may be locked or deleted at any time..
With respect,
Scott
MyFitnessPal Staff
From just a few posts up.
LOL I just didn't feel like reading through all the pages of arguments over this topic, because obviously IT IS A TOUCHY TOPIC FOR MANY PEOPLE!
I seen that on the first page, thought it fit lol.
My opinion shall remain within, as I'm agnostic.
My beliefs are mine, and mine only and they are subject to change whenever I feel they should.
(:
I just don't think this should have became a debate over religion rather than what the OP asked.
Maybe I'm a vampire? Maybe I'm walking as life after death lol.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Not to keep you up all night, so answer when you have time, but I'd like to see scripture that quotes that.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Since she's off to bed, I can toss this one out there, even though I am on the other side of the fence.
2 Corinthians 5:10 - For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.
One could reasonably theorize that this would validate her claim, at least for the infants, as it basically states that all will be held accountable for their own sins (which kind of kicks the idea of original sin in it's *kitten*), which would absolve infants. As for the stuff about the disabled, I am finding some pretty mixed stuff, ranging from God telling Moses that the disabled are not fit to serve, to all of the stuff with Jesus healing various ailments. Not really sure on that one.0 -
LOL I just didn't feel like reading through all the pages of arguments over this topic, because obviously IT IS A TOUCHY TOPIC FOR MANY PEOPLE!
I seen that on the first page, thought it fit lol.
My opinion shall remain within, as I'm agnostic.
My beliefs are mine, and mine only and they are subject to change whenever I feel they should.
(:
I just don't think this should have became a debate over religion rather than what the OP asked.
Maybe I'm a vampire? Maybe I'm walking as life after death lol.
It was inevitable that it would take this path, and really, if you read the entire thing, it's surprising how long the transition took. Fortunately, it's actually been very civil, all inclusive, and pretty thought provoking at times. As for being agnostic: so am I. You don't see me clamming up, do ya?
0 -
Well, I'm sure someone probably already said this here, as it is stating the obvious. According to religion, every single one of us is going to another religion's hell. :ohwell:0
-
Well, I'm sure someone probably already said this here, as it is stating the obvious. According to religion, every single one of us is going to another religion's hell. :ohwell:
Yeap, already got you covered. I just put it in a slightly different format:The monotheisms' 'my way or the highway' attitude is the real problem. If the God of the monotheisms does exist, he certainly has a pretty sick sense of humor when you are talking about gambling with the souls of billions upon billions of individuals. I could grasp it a bit more if it were all about 'living a good life', but it's not. That's only part of the equation. You still only have a theoretical 33.33333~% chance of getting it right, so to speak.0 -
Well, I'm sure someone probably already said this here, as it is stating the obvious. According to religion, every single one of us is going to another religion's hell. :ohwell:
Yeap, already got you covered. I just put it in a slightly different format:The monotheisms' 'my way or the highway' attitude is the real problem. If the God of the monotheisms does exist, he certainly has a pretty sick sense of humor when you are talking about gambling with the souls of billions upon billions of individuals. I could grasp it a bit more if it were all about 'living a good life', but it's not. That's only part of the equation. You still only have a theoretical 33.33333~% chance of getting it right, so to speak.
I agree with you on all this!
I guess I should look back to see how people replied to that.0 -
Depends: if you're a believer...then there is. If not...there isn't. It's not worth arguing because most people won't change their minds unless something happens to them...either good or bad.
So, enjoy each day and thank God, or yourself for it and be glad.0 -
The picture was too damn big, had to resize it.
0 -
And I have a book to recommend for those who consider themselves atheist or agnostic ... it's called "I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist". It's a similar concept, but takes a hard look at some of the "scientific" methods used to refute Theism in general, and specifically Christianity. What made me think of it was the one point you mentioned about the book you recommended called "It fits".
As for agnostis and atheists and proof, it isn't really my job to MAKE them believe in God and the eternal salvation offered through faith in Christ Jesus, but to plant a seed of faith, and allow God to do what He does best. The farmer plants the corn, but he doesn't MAKE it grow. Of course, he tends to it while it is sprouting, but ultimately God makes the corn grow. Likewise, only God can turn a heart.
FTR, I used to be an atheist. I failed. How I came to believe in God, however, is not relevant for the discussion at hand.
I'll give it a look, and thanks for the recommendation.
Keep in mind, Law doesn't use only the scientific method to attack the 'defense mechanisms' of faith based things. There's also a huge portion of good old fashioned rationality and empirical (though not necessarily derived from the scientific method) evidence. He also admits, just as Dawkins did (which many who hate him like to overlook) "Perhaps there are some genuinely profound and meaningful questions that are forever beyond the reach of science". That's the point where we have to actually turn on that old rusty engine called 'critical thinking' that so very many members of our population today have forgotten all about. Don't worry, I don't blame religion for the numbing of the minds, as the human brain did very well under centuries of it's rule. No, I find the 'nanny state' to be much more detrimental to thought capacity, but that's another topic for another time.
I would certainly agree with you on the "nanny state"---it is a gentler form of tyranny but tyranny nonetheless (and sometimes, not so very gentle, which doesn't bode well for the future).0 -
Ah, now we're getting into Calvanism and there is a difference of opinion even amongs Christians who believe in salvation through Jesus' death on the cross: once saved always saved or can you lose your salvation?
Therein lies another problem. If even the proponents of a system can't agree upon how it works, how can anyone be certain that any of it is right, and not just people scrambling for anything they can cobble together to attempt to save face? Misinterpretation is one thing, but what we have these days far exceeds a little 'oops, I read that wrong'.
I sympathize but that is why I left liberal Christianity in favor of the true Biblically-based faith. One must bathe in Scripture under the scrubbing hand of the Holy Spirit in order to grasp the more difficult concepts. I believe that ALL apparent conflicts dissolve under this approach as Scripture interprets itself with the aid of the Holy Spirit. But one never gets complacent as there are always more things to explore in the Divine Book.0 -
But that still doesn't change the view of someone like myself who looks at all religious faith as being subjective in interpretation. ALL religions believe that how they interpret scriptures is correct. Some of my favorite debates were ones that I observed on a religious forum where different denominations of christianity argued about interpretation of scripture.I sympathize but that is why I left liberal Christianity in favor of the true Biblically-based faith. One must bathe in Scripture under the scrubbing hand of the Holy Spirit in order to grasp the more difficult concepts. I believe that ALL apparent conflicts dissolve under this approach as Scripture interprets itself with the aid of the Holy Spirit. But one never gets complacent as there are always more things to explore in the Divine Book.
The Jews and christians follow the old testament, yet disagree overall on religious belief. Why? Because somewhere interpretation of scripture led christianity another direction.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 394K Introduce Yourself
- 43.9K Getting Started
- 260.3K Health and Weight Loss
- 176K Food and Nutrition
- 47.5K Recipes
- 232.6K Fitness and Exercise
- 433 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.6K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153.1K Motivation and Support
- 8.1K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.4K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.9K MyFitnessPal Information
- 15 News and Announcements
- 1.2K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.7K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions